Electrical Problem !!
 

Hi all, just getting the 3aj ready to go back on the road after winter. been starting her now and again this last few weeks, last week the battery was flat(brand new last summer & been kept on an optimate charger!) anyway i put a car charger on the battery(still in bike) & left it to charge for a day or so. now when i hit the starter all i hear is a buzzing sound coming from the solonoid, i got another solonoid from a breakers and fitted it today but it just makes the same buzzing noise!!! anyone have any idea what has went wrong? could something have burnt out because of the car charger being connected and if so, what? thanks for any answers in advance. Big T

Best bet.... if your battery aint dead from charging from a car charger

The buzzing sound from your relay is caused by your starter motor brushwires being cooked by having it on the car charger and short circuiting and or petrol leaking from the carb overflow onto the starter...mini whoosh. This short circuit drains the battery at a greater capacity then it can deliver hence causing the relay to bounce. Remove the starter motor and reinsulate or replace the brush wires.

...because it happenned to me too lol.

Thanks, I,ll have a look at that. never had any problems before, when i used a car charger on a bike.

even so it's not a good idea. You can boil the battery at surprisingly low amperage.

The buzz is due of the flat battery or low power of the battery.. I had (and still have) the same problem but I've fitted a kickstart and fitted a new battery I had at home but yet have to get a new regulator/rectifier because it won't charge the new battery.

Clean the solonoid contacts and the contact on the cable at the starter motor, and also, the battery contacts... if they have any type of corrosion of course :cool4:

Vando

Hi, the battery is now fully charged and i,ve checked all the connections also. still buzzing. I,ll have a look at the starter motor tmw. thanks again. any other sugestions welcome.

don't forget to check the regulator/rectifier that is under the rear fender...change it with one of a friends to see if it is it that isn't charging the battery.... I have to get a new one for myself to

Vando

Use jump leads to a good battery as a test
 

My bike has been doing the same sort of thing - I agree that it is very likely a knackered battery, for whatever reason, including, probably, using a car charger for a low-ampere bike battery.
In any case, mine has most of the symptoms that you describe, but it works just fine when jumped to a car battery that is in good condition - that's what tells me that the bike battery is u/s.
Even when "fully charged", it shows about just 12.5 volts on a multimeter.

Yes, it might be "fully charged" but it doesn't have enough power to turn the bike on..

On my 1990 XT600E what happened was that after I charged the battery and went for a short ride and turned the bike off, it wouldn't start again. it would only buzz when pressing the e-start .... even with my new battery, it keeps going flat and doing that.

Yr battery has gone
 

Definitely. To verify, hookup a car with jumper cables. Bike will start.

So, now to find out what f*cked up the battery: before damaging a new one, hookup the same car battery to your bike's electrical system via the jumper cables, disconnect the car's e-system from the car battery. Start bike. The charging voltage should go 14 - 14.5 V. If not, something wrong with the charging system.

On a side line, make sure that all the earth connections are clean & continuous, the thick black cable from battery to one of the starter motor fixing bolts, and the one small cable providing earth to the 'low amperage' part of the e-system.

Somewhere on this site there is a good fault-finding guide for charging systems.

Auke

Just about 12.5 volts
 

I typed that last bit in something of a hurry: to explain/describe it a tad - the voltmeter showed around 12.5V with no load on the battery just after the charger was disconnected (somewhere around 12.3-12.5V).
As soon as the starter motor was turned over once for a few seconds, this voltage reading dropped to about 11 volts, and it had the same symptoms described by big t -- basically a buzzing solenoid; no way was the bike going to start with that fully charged battery (charged with an "accumate" trickle charger that acts like an optimate). As soon as a car battery was jumped to the bike battery the bike engine turned over and started fine.

Hi when you disconect the battery from the charger you should let it stand for half an hour before checking the voltage,
You can get the battery tested with a meter which will test it under load a good bike shop should have a meter I think it may be called a drop tester.
I think you should have at least 12.5v after charging usually higher.
I have had a few batterys that will show 12.5v but will only turn the engine over once or twice and not fast enough to start. Even if battery is showing 12.5v it is the amps that give the power to turn the engine.
some good info and links about batterys here Dan's Motorcycle "Batteries"

Well i stripped the starter motor down today and found nothing burnt or melted. cleaned it up but it seems hard to turn by hand ! is this normal? fitted it back on bike but no joy. so battery f*%ked then? i will try the jump lead trick tmw. thanks for your replies T

Batteries, don't you love them?
 

Thanks Bolla, especially for the reminder about Dan's website: that's a really good resource with lots of useful information.
I don't know anything about the age of my battery BTW: it was on the bike when I bought it.

big t,
Suggest you have a read of that link from Bolla - tells you the bad news about using car battery chargers (we've all been there at some time or other!).
It's often been said in other threads, bad batteries can cause all sorts of nause and perculiar symptoms: I still think that is your main, or only hopefully, problem.

It's the battery - I had the same problem with both my Transalp and my tenere. With the engine running, if you put a meter across the terminals of the battery, you'll get about 14.5 volt reading. Turn the engine off and keep the meter on there. It'll read about 12.5. Keep the meter on and watch the volts drop slowly i.e. 12.4 - 12.3- 12.2 etc. This means that the engine is sending enough power back to charge the battery, but it's not holding the charge. Just get a new battery, and see what happens, they're fairly cheap. Or look at it like taking an aspirin - It may fix the problem, and it won't do any damage.

I still say starter motor is jammed or shorting. The relay will click on and off as the battery cannot supply sufficient charge as you attempt to start the engine. If the battery was gone the clicking would very rapidy diminish to a final click. How is your indicator relay? If your indicators are working fine, you can almost certainly say your battery is good enough to crank the motor over effortlessly.
With the motor jammed or shorting, you will notice a immediate drop to roughly nine volts as the battery cannot hold the amperage. If you say the starter motor is difficult to turn then there is something wrong, iffy in the least. It should turn freely with minimal but noticable resistance.
If you have a multimeter check the resistance accross the starter terminals. If you get minimal resistant readings you definately have a short. check again, especially where the positive terminal leads to the brushes. This is prone to wearing against the outer case and creating a dead short.

Thanks for the replies, so thats a multimeter, a starter motor & a battery required then!! could be worse, could be stuck in the middle of nowhere!! anyone got the needed bits to install a kickstart for sale??

Big T ....if you have any doubts about the starter motor just take it off, grab another charged battery, some jumper cables and give it a try...remember...the + is the screw on top of the starter motor.. if it turns than it's fine it doesn't turn have an electrician to look at it...

Well i took at the starter again today, stripped it completely and cleaned everything up. tried it on the car battery but nothing happened!, its still fairly tight to turn for some reason? Anyway a bid has been placed on another starter motor on ebay so heres hoping! cheers T

Did you try to turn it by hand when it was all disassembled?

yeah, its still not turning freely for some strange reason! i have tottally stripped it but im f%cked i can see where the problem could be! nothing melted or burnt and no wires touching. im hoping the xt600e is the same starter, looks the same to me. i have bid on one on ebay.

Does the little axle that has the small gear come out when it rotates? i'm thinking that whatever pushes the axle out might have had some kind of problem and it's that that might be causing your problem... take it to a Yamaha dealer to see what they tell you....

When you tried the car battery, did you get any sparking indicating the circuit was working? Did you jump it on the output side of the starter solenoid? ( I dont have an electric start, so I am not entirely sure about this)
If you have an OHM meter, you can check that you dont have an open circuit by going from the output side of the solenoid to ground, there should be some resistance, not sure what it would be.

Good Luck!

Steve

Hi, when i tried putting power through it using the car battery, it just reacted like there is a dead short(lots of sparks). i have,nt got an ohm meter yet, maybe nows the time to purchase one? still winning on ebay so problem may be solved !

It sure doesnt sound like an open circuit! Good luck bidding!

It is supposed to make some sparks because it ain't supposed to work like that :P ....but did it turn????

So
You removed the rotor ..
Looked at the brushes - checked there length
Checked the magnets were secure in the housing ?

If you did not I'm thinking the magnets may have seperated from the housing.

Bacardi, No it didn,t turn! and Frank, Yes i stripped everything, including removing the brushes, rotor and checking the magnets. all seems fine and brushes have very little wear. T.

Well if it doesn't turn it doesn't work. The why becomes irrelevant. Good luck on your ebay bid

Cheers, i,ll know at 11 0clock sunday!