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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 24 Jul 2012
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Disc Forgeries.

Hi, I bought an EBC stainless steel front disc for a Yamaha TTR600R. The mounting holes didn't line up accurately and some drilling was needed. Next day I washed the bike with water and left it ovrenight without drying it. The new disc was rusty on all its edges and had surface rust beginning to appear all over it. The rear disc was not rusty and the original front disc had shown no signs of rusting despite being outside for a year.

I checked Triumph, Honda, Suzuki and other bikes and none showed signs of rust on any of their discs. I asked in two garages about this and was informed that my suspicions of a forgery were founded.

I went to Wemoto from whom the disc had been bought. I said the above and stated that I thought they were being supplied with discs as EBC but not made by them, though the packaging was for EBC.

Wemoto asked what I was insinuating. I said I simply I wanted a response to my statement. They say they don't have to give one. They even tried to confiscate the packaging. I said this customer service is not good. He smiled.

This is my experience, use it as you wish. I suspect there are false EBC discs for sale in UK. Perhaps more stockists than Wemoto have them. I personally shall in future deal directly with Yamaha and EBC. EBC said over the phone that their discs do not rust.

Ciao, Lindsay.
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  #2  
Old 24 Jul 2012
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Why don't you ask EBC if they will investigate the possibility of counterfeit discs being sold under their name?
Surely they would have some interest if this is true?, after all its their brand they will be trying to protect!
If they don't have any interest then maybe look elsewhere for discs like Metalgear or ABM Peak?
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  #3  
Old 24 Jul 2012
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Done.

Hi, have just e-mailed EBC with the code number and bar code from the packaging. EBCdirect said already that they sound suspect. I know forgeries are widespread and this applies more to brake pads which could be more dangerous. Lindsay.
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  #4  
Old 24 Jul 2012
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Trading standards ?
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  #5  
Old 24 Jul 2012
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Modern stainless discs will rust eventually, but in my experience it usually takes a couple of weeks in the open before there is a trace of rust on the braking surfaces. Rusting overnight is what my old Moto Guzzi's discs used to do - and they were cast iron! The disc material is clearly not the grade of s/s it should be.

I've dealt a lot with Wemoto and always found them to be fine. But as I have never had a problem, I haven't had cause to test their approach to a problem. Their attitude, as reported, doesn't give much confidence. Having worked a lot in customer service, I would have responded as follows:

We are very sorry you have had a problem with the product.
Please return the disc for a full refund.
We will then investigate the matter with EBC and report back to you.
And then do what you say you will do.

It costs a bit more to operate in this way, but it maintains customer confidence. With safety-critical items like brake discs, that is a vital element of trading.
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  #6  
Old 25 Jul 2012
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I could understand if you bought them off Ebay or some other auction site then the seller could just tell you to go away and there would be little recourse.
However when you are dealing with an established company like Wemoto which is a big enough player in the parts game then the game changes.
They need to be on top of this perceived issue or word will start to spread and thats the last thing that any company needs these days.
I am looking for a new front disc right now, and what are the chances that I will buy an EBC from Wemoto while this is unresolved?
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  #7  
Old 25 Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linzi View Post
Hi, have just e-mailed EBC with the code number and bar code from the packaging. EBCdirect said already that they sound suspect. I know forgeries are widespread and this applies more to brake pads which could be more dangerous. Lindsay.
I'm following this with great interest and looking forward to the later responses of both EBC and Wemoto.
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  #8  
Old 25 Jul 2012
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Responses.

Hi, EBC replied and they're great. It seems likely that the disc is an old type of low grade stainless steel that should have been gold finished but slipped by. The new type are higher grade stainless steel. They offered to swap it. The codes are correct. The MOT is due in ten days so the bike'll have to be off the road for a while. The disc rusted as fast as the cast steel discs on my 1970's Guzzi, definitely too rapidly.

So, I'd say EBC are a great company. No-one's perfect. But I'll deal direct with them in future if I need to. I'll not use Wemoto again despite them being so close. I had phoned them the day before and agreed to bring the disc in. It was on the bike parked outside to be viewed but the guy there was not agreeable at all.

So, this was an unusual slip up and not a forgery. Lindsay.
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  #9  
Old 25 Jul 2012
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Yea, there are various grades of stainless steel and they are not all rust resistant in the wrong, aggressive conditions such as chlorides i.e. salt.
Which begs the question of why were the discs manuf of that material in the first place.
It sounds like you have given up with Wemoto for this subject.
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  #10  
Old 25 Jul 2012
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Yep.

Call it a clash of personalities. I personally will not deal with them again. I really don't like arguments which is what a conversation with them would be. I'll put the bike over a pile of small pallets and remove the disc in that position. There's a company yard where I'm sure they'll say yes to doing that. That way there's no further cost in removal and refitting. I have to do these things cheaply as I'm definitely not well off.

I shouldn't have been so fast to say forgeries but I was certain that was the case.

Lastly, of some interest perhaps: I had damaged the original disc by forgetting the disc lock was there. The bike had been unused for about five months and it was my first ride. My memory is these days a real liability. I had paid for and ordered a new EBC disc which had to be ordered. So I set off for Ripley with the need to apply the front brake four times to get any pressure. I could see the pads being pushed out each time after applying the brake. This is perhaps seen as foolhardy, perhaps illegal but I rode safely knowing that the braking distance was a lot, like a veteran bike no doubt.

After a couple of hours the disc began to straighten and was nearly normal by the time I arrived at Ripley. The heating up and pressure were repairing it! As the caliper is floating, the disc would never straighten completely. I think it could have been repaired with a lathe. On the ride back home the brake activated as normal with just a bit of vibration due to the caliper moving in and out. Clearly it needs a replacement to get an MOT and be sensible to use. The pads have taken a hammering though and new ones have been ordered. All experience. Lindsay.
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  #11  
Old 25 Jul 2012
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I have a China made front disc brake rotor bought on ebay and I've had no problems with it nor any rust pick up on it even if when I let the bike outside for weeks..

:S
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  #12  
Old 26 Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huan View Post
I am looking for a new front disc right now, and what are the chances that I will buy an EBC from Wemoto while this is unresolved?
I'm exactly in the same situation, but just confirmed I'm going to order it from KEDO (EBC cheaper there as well).

Anyway, I think some factors got together in the case to make things go wrong. Someone there had a bad day or similar. I don't think Wemoto would get to be that big with such bad customer service.

Esteban
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  #13  
Old 27 Jul 2012
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Originally Posted by estebangc View Post
Anyway, I think some factors got together in the case to make things go wrong. Someone there had a bad day or similar. I don't think Wemoto would get to be that big with such bad customer service.
Maybe someone had a bad day, but in the profession of sales, you don't laugh at customers. EVER.
Thats a surefire way to piss people off and then they bitch and moan on an 'ternet forum and.....
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  #14  
Old 28 Jul 2012
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Originally Posted by Huan View Post
Thats a surefire way to piss people off and then they bitch and moan on an 'ternet forum and.....
Another rule of customer service: for every good experience, a customer will tell, on average, three people. For every bad experience, they will tell twenty.

On in the days of the interwebs, twenty million.
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  #15  
Old 28 Jul 2012
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Done.

Hi, well that's the disc posted first class to EBC.

No, the guy wasn't having a bad day. He is always unsmiling and serious, surly even. He demands to command the conversation and not be hurried or disturbed in any way. He's one of the founders. Yes, they're doing very well but he should put himself out of sight of the customers, well that's my opinion. I'm not slagging them off simply stating that I was not allowed to make a complaint or point out a possible fault unless I did it on his terms. Good wishes to them. Lindsay.
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