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Can't get neutral
Recently purchased a 98 XT600e and am finding that I can't get neutral once the engine's hot. It just won't budge out of 1st at times. I'm getting some clutch drag so my guess is plate are expanding and sort of sticking which in turn effects gear selection. Any remedies.
Len |
I get exactly the same symptoms with my 1990 3AJ model.
Does the selection get easier if you blip the throttle? On my bike (which probably has a work selector fork / drum assembly (££££!) revving the bike slightly as I find neutral seems to make thing much easier. You may be right re: dragging clutch syndrome. I have been advised to adjust and change my plates prior to deciding my gearbox is knackered, since they can cause poor selection... HTH mate. |
i get no trouble with my '95 XT600E, but my mate has this problem all the time with his husqvarna 610, it goes straight into neutral if you select it just before the bike stops.
a character of big single dirtbikes perhaps? ------------------ dave |
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>>Does the selection get easier if you blip the throttle?<< Yes it does. I just discovered that yesterday. >>I have been advised to adjust and change my plates prior to deciding my gearbox is knackered, since they can cause poor selection...<< I can't believe that my gearbox is shagged as it's only a 98 model. I read recently that the clutch plates develop groove that cause them to stick together. Len [This message has been edited by mudlark (edited 27 October 2002).] [This message has been edited by mudlark (edited 27 October 2002).] |
Hi all ;
Although its not the same bike, it has the similar problem. My Husqvarna is doing something like ... you put the bike in 1.gear and relase the clutch ... the engine stops! ... most probably due to ..hmm .. i guess in english its called mill .. the clutch plates doesnt release it ... due to grooves that developed ... but its just a guess ... i will learn as i open the gearbox tomorrow..... |
Well i opened the gearbox and was amazed from what i saw... something which resembled a fluid leaked out of motor... it was more like a saliva of an alien from outer space ... never what to see something like that again ... and this juice caused the clutch pads to stick to each other ... so my case wont be an good example to anyone else...
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I'm NOT an XT expert - anything but - but I'll try to clarify the generic "can't find neutral" problem.
First, design considerations: Gears are often "undercut" where they mate together in order to help them stay meshed. In other words, they try to lock together. Also, on all bikes, especially ones without undercut gears, the gear selector mechanism is held in place in a NOTCH in the gear selection mechanism by a spring. All of this means that it is supposed to be difficult for a gear to get "out of gear". Under normal optimum conditions, the effort required for you to change gears is minimal, a good stomp (hard push) on the gear lever and it changes. Note that to go into neutral always requires a "half stomp" on the gear pedal, which under optimum conditions is easy. Clear so far? The problem comes up when the clutch drags, causing the gears to spin tightly together. In order to change gears you have to press harder on the gear lever - and it's impossible to get that perfect "half stomp" into neutral - you always over-stomp into second or under-stomp and nothing happens. You can often easily find neutral rolling up to a stop - before you actually come to a stop. (Once upon a time this was normal and commonly required on many bikes - with todays better designs and materials it isn't often required - BUT some bikes, especially older designs, may still have an inherent design problem and be very susceptible to any problem, requiring this technique) Second, maintenance and usage: Under heavy use and abuse, the clutch itself can overheat and warp the plates. Also, the cable gets dirty and stiff and slack, and if hard to pull, may not adequately release the clutch. The cure is simple in theory - stop the clutch drag. Not always so simple in the real world. Standard fixes in common order: As noted above, first clean and lube and adjust the clutch cable perfectly, any doubts about it replace it. Keep the old for a good spare if the problem isn't solved right there. (The chain is unlikely to cause a problem unless it's way too tight, in which case it could be loading the transmission shaft and causing binding, but unlikely.) If the cable doesn't solve it, and there is signs of clutch drag, take the clutch apart and check for warped or burned plates. ANY sign of warping or if there is a "burnt" smell, replace the whole set, and new springs. Another common source of a problem is that the clutch plates have worn notches in the hub, preventing the plates from releasing properly. It is possible if you're severely cash-strapped to file the notches out of the outer hub, but the inner has to be replaced. If the notching is severe on a high mileage bike I'd replace the whole lot - all plates, springs, inner and outer hub and pressure plate. On some bikes the spring which pressures the detent pin or ball which holds the gear selector mechanism in gear can weaken and require replacement, and the pin or ball itself can become worn, and not hold adequately, or burred and sticky. This can sometimes be replaced externally but usually requires dismantling the gearbox. A rare problem. Finally, the external gear shift shaft can be bent or an external mechanism dirty or incorrectly setup, causing difficult selection. (BMW airheads for e.g. often have this one) Hope that helps, ------------------ Grant Johnson Seek, and ye shall find. ------------------------ One world, Two wheels. www.HorizonsUnlimited.com |
Mudlark,
I have had the same problem on my '90 3AJ and on my '85 55W model in niether case did I find any problem with the clutch,but that's not to say that you should not check it out. As like you,I have found that rolling forward or selecting neutral before I stop helps a lot. After years of soul searching I have simply put this problem down to another charicteristic of big singles I have found that most race bikes have the same problem too,even the old Yam 490 crosser(2 stroke) was the same(at least the one I rode was),good luck with your quest and if you find out anything definate,post it here so we can all find that elusive neutral. Griff. [This message has been edited by GRIFF (edited 09 December 2002).] |
Thanks for all your replies. I've definitatly purchased an idiosyncratic XT and that's putting it politely (they saw me coming is the phrase that springs to mind).
Gear selection is fine while the bike is only warm, the problem starts when the bike runs hot. Grant pretty much nailed it--it either won't shift from 1st or heavily clunks into 2nd. Meanwhile I have to hold the front break to stop the bike creeping forward. So, I know that the clutch needs attention. My problem is (refer to my other posts) that my bike, according to the clock, has only done 6,500 miles and on top of the clutch drag, it billows white/grey smoke at warmup and is only returning 36 mpg (probably indicating that it may require a major top end overhaul). My thoughts at present are do I cut my losses and trade in or do I throw money at it. |
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Personally I would say if the rest of the bike is ok then throw money at it. When the engine is sorted you will be rewarded with the best all round touring tool on the market( in my opinion anyway ). I did a top end rebuild on mine two years ago and replaced everything exept cams and valves and the parts only cost me £250. Also I just remembered that the neutral selection got a lot easier when I put in some ZX1 Extralube ( available from Halfords or M&P ). Griff. |
How I rectified poor neutral selection on my 1991 xt 600e.....
1) Fit a new genuine well oiled Yamaha clutch cable. 2) Remove clutch cover and inspect clutch. Wear, thickness of plates,spring height etc. If it is ok fit a David Lambeth modification kit consisting of a thicker friction plate and a thicker metal clutch plate. This metal plate dispenses with the clutch boss spring. 3) Carefully adjust the clutch push rod (Clymer p.190). Note that the clutch lever alignment mark (lever to crankcase) appears to be different than the one shown by Clymer. You will have to remove the starter motor to see it clearly. Reconnect clutch cable and adjust correctly. 4) Reassemble the engine and refill with SLICK 50 engine treatment for bikes and Motul 3000 20w50 engine oil. I did this to my old xt and the clutch is great, smooth,progressive no snatching or grabbing when hot and best of all perfect neutrals all the time, hot or cold. My xt's chassis number is JYA3WRT08NA003124 Engine number is 3WR008124 It is an Australian model. Could you tell me if it is 3AJ as mentioned in HUBB. Also how does it rank in terms of reliability, toughness etc against other models of xt? Thanks for your help. Paul Futcher, Sydney, Australia. |
How I rectified poor neutral selection on my 1991 xt 600e.....
1) Fit a new genuine well oiled Yamaha clutch cable. 2) Remove clutch cover and inspect clutch. Wear, thickness of plates,spring height etc. If it is ok fit a David Lambeth modification kit consisting of a thicker friction plate and a thicker metal clutch plate. This metal plate dispenses with the clutch boss spring. 3) Carefully adjust the clutch push rod (Clymer p.190). Note that the clutch lever alignment mark (lever to crankcase) appears to be different than the one shown by Clymer. You will have to remove the starter motor to see it clearly. Reconnect clutch cable and adjust correctly. 4) Reassemble the engine and refill with SLICK 50 engine treatment for bikes and Motul 3000 20w50 engine oil. I did this to my old xt and the clutch is great, smooth,progressive no snatching or grabbing when hot and best of all perfect neutrals all the time, hot or cold. My xt's chassis number is JYA3WRT08NA003124 Engine number is 3WR008124. It is an Australian model. Could you tell me if it is a 3AJ as mentioned in HUBB. Also how does it rank in terms of reliability, toughness etc against other models of xt? Thanks for your help. Paul Futcher, Sydney, Australia. |
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I think this is the Oceania equivalent of the European/Asian spec UTB - a 90-94 XT600E. Look this up for reliablility info etc. Edit: Sorry for UTB read 3TB. The 3AJ is an 88-90 European/Asian spec XT600Z Ténéré. The Oceania equiv was the 3DE. HTH [This message has been edited by john (edited 29 April 2003).] |
Cheers John, that was very helpful. Paul.
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