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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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About Lock-tite & girly hands...

We have encountered a (probably typically female) problem - and just wanted to hear your views:

When disassembling/fixing/replacing things, there are instances when it is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY impossible for us, to loosen things.

Seriously - we spent an hour the other day, trying to disconnect an electrical connector - and when a male knight in shining armour finally arrived - he was able to just pull it apart with brute force.

We just don't have the physical strenghth required to do it!

Since part of our 'bike prep' schedule is to work our way through and replace all fasteners (including electrical chocolate-block pluggie thingies) -- we thought it would be good to make sure that everything is easily REMOVABLE for us.

HOWEVER -- everyone advises that, in order to avoid vibration - we need to locktite things in.



This poses the question: if we are all by ourselves in the wilds of Africa - and something breaks, and we are supposed to take it off/loosen it... what do we do??

And if we DONT fasten stuff tightly -- it may all fall apart!!

SOooooo - we thought MAYBE we could just create a little SCHEDULE of CHECKING all the stuff... every day...?
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  #2  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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No Locktite

First of all, don’t use Locktite. There are a few exceptions but that’s mostly inside the engine. (Okay. Locktite-freaks will probably chime in here but give it a try)
Instead you can use copper-based grease which makes the bolts easier to remove (stops corrosion).Clean the bolt before applying the grease.
The bolts don’t fell off as long as you tighten them once in a while, use lock-nuts where possible.
If you are paranoid then safety-wire some bolts.
The copper-based grease usually works for a few years so it’s no need to carry it on a trip. It could be smart to carry a small container of ordinary grease (10 gram is enough for a year).

If a bolt is stuck:
  • Be sure to use the right tool for the bolt
  • Apply heat
  • Apply lube (WD40, CRC++), maybe let the oil soak in during the night
  • Apply heat
  • Sudden stress is good; hit the spanner with something heavy


Maintenance of electrical connections:
  • Be careful with WD40/CRC ++, use it only to disassembly stuff and for cleaning
  • Check if the plug has locking-mechanism before you try top open it, figure out how it works. Sometimes the plastic is stiff and has to be cut..
  • Clean connectors (a small file is handy but a knife works)
  • Check that the cable is properly attached to the plug
  • Check if the female end has to be tightened
  • Use Vaseline (or some other acid-free fat) on the connectors
If you do this properly there is no need to carry WD40/CRC on your trip.
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  #3  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
First of all, don’t use Locktite. There are a few exceptions but that’s mostly inside the engine. (Okay. Locktite-freaks will probably chime in here but give it a try)
.
He he I must be one of those freaks then. I agree that Locktite is not completely necessary if you do VERY regular checks on your bolts, but having them "Locktited" adds peace of mind. Locktite doesn't make a nut or bolt any harder to remove - just stops them vibrating loose. It also acts as a corrosion inhibitor on the threads.

Most of the other things you say make good sense
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  #4  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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When you apply Locktite to the screw and tighten it the Locktite dries up and gets pretty hard (when it looses contact with air). If you have used enough Locktite it will seal so you don’t get any corrosion.

But let us say that after a while you tighten (or open) the screw. The Locktite (which were hard) cracks up and it will not seal properly and corrosion can start. Most of the locking-effect will be gone, unless it has separated into hard particles which make it hard to undo the bolt.

If you tighten or loosen a Locktited bolt you should always clean it thoroughly and apply (enough) Locktite. If you do this Locktite might be better then copper-based grease but you will use a looooong time to check the bolts on your bike and it’s a boring job to clean all the nuts.
“Correct” way of checking the bolt is loosen it and then tighten it….

For bolts that you don’t mess with often (clutch and so on) Locktite might be the best option.

Yes, I know a lot of people disagree…
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  #5  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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It's just experience, if you believe you can loosen something, or get it off you will. Doubting yourself is definitely not going to help you, try to toughen up and if you need to undo something, give it everything you have!

I would also recommend taking your bikes off-road a few times before departing to get some experience... as you would be far better off getting stuck on a one day trip than in the middle of africa.
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Old 11 Mar 2008
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Electrical connectors shouldn't shake loose. A bit of vaseline is a good way to keep them corrosion free.

Loctite is only necessary on a very few bolts. I agree that copper grease is the way to go.

When loosening nuts and bolts it's all about LEVERAGE (and not over tightening in the first place!) Get nice long spanners or socket wrench. Alternatively, while it's hard to describe, it's possible to link the ring end of one spanner round the open jaws of another in order to increase the overall length of the working spanner.

Loctite, as already stated shouldn't overly affect the difficulty of loosening a nut.

Matt
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  #7  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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Copper slip (aka copper grease.copper ease) is the way to go!
DO NOT use it on any part of the fule system, carbs etc though. Locktite things like alternator/stator bolts etc - stuff that you cannot access and is not exposed. Replace any worn bolts so that you get good contact for undoing and take a bit of pipe - you can use this to get extra leverage and compensate for any gender-based stength disparity.

I wouldn't locktite any electrical connectors!

Plus-gas penetrating fluid will loosen most bits pretty well, spray on, have a cup of tea and hey-presto!

It is always prudent to lockwire all bits of your bike on - this way if anything does work loose and come off you won't lose it! Carry some spare bolts....

A dab of silicone sealant around the bolt head can help prevent stuff from vibrating loose and is easy to peel off if you need to take the bolt out.

Again, riding naked would ensure a following trail of 'Knights in white armour' to get those stubborn bolts out!
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  #8  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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we used to use loctite

Hi, just my two cents.

When I was in the boating industry, every year when the powerboat came out the water, we'd undo and take out the shafts. Now all around the top of the shaft is a plate that fits snug with the other plate joined to the engine. There were big bolts all around the plate about 12 in total 20 mm thick. nut and bolted. We'd do all the maintenance and then put it all back together, tightening the nuts with locktite. Good sealant, good in water. It wouldn't be looked at again until the following year. When it was time to take it off the following year, it certainly wasn't a problem to get them undone.
Now where heat is involved, I'd be tempted to go for something else.
ta-all-the-way

Last edited by ta-all-the-way; 11 Mar 2008 at 13:45.
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  #9  
Old 11 Mar 2008
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also the grade of loctite is something to consider. Red is very strong. Blue is less strong but not permanent, and there is also a self wicking locktite that will penetrate exposed threads into the nut on exposed fasteners.
Steve
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  #10  
Old 12 Mar 2008
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Spanners

As Matt said, "it's possible to link the ring end of one spanner round the open jaw of another"



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  #11  
Old 12 Mar 2008
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Get a 1/2" drive socket set with single-hex sockets of good quality. Carry not only the ratchet, but also the sliding T-bar. You can put a tube or similar onto that to extend the leverage. With this arrangement there won't be many bolts that will resist you. Undoing bolts is often more a case of technique than strength. Let a mechanic show you the tricks.
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Old 12 Mar 2008
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Loctite is not evil.. Its the incorrect use of loctite and people using the wrong strengh in the wrong places which can give it a bad rep. It keeps corrosion out and DOES NOT make bolts harder to remove if used properly.

You have an XT600Es if i remember correcly (same as me).

If your overlanding on these you WILL lose bolts which will shake loose. You physically cant tighten some of them without them breaking to prevent this.

You HAVE TO loctite brake disc and brake caliper bolts for safety reasons.

I use mild loctite on some secondary bolts such as the exhaust heatshield and bodywork bolts without problems and this is common practice with offroad bikes. Just only use a couple of drops and use the weakest variety.

Electrrical connector shouldnt be difficult to pull apart if they are clean and not damaged. Maybe a good idea to check and clean them all.

Good and proper use of good tools makes a HUGE difference to the ease of a job. Buy a good set of tools and be taught or learn how to use them. Nothing serious but basic knowledge goes a long way..

I would recommend getting a set of ratchet Spanners (halfords Professional are good) and a decent socket set.

Feel free to PM me or anything if you want anymore info..
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  #13  
Old 12 Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impasto View Post
(including electrical chocolate-block pluggie thingies) -- we thought it would be good to make sure that everything is easily REMOVABLE for us.
Do you mean these?!

Don't. Most unreliable joint you can make, except for Scotch-Loks

They are meant for solid wire and your stranded stuff will break where the screw bites it. Not even very good if you tin the ends before connecting.

Useful as an emergency repair though. Take some with you and a roll of self amalgamating tape.

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  #14  
Old 12 Mar 2008
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lol hi girls, the guys are righ (for once!) go sparing with the loctite, use it only on nuts and bolts that you are fairly sure you wont need to get off except in an emergency and inside the engine on the small nuts and bolts that cause a big mess if the come out.

I'm a big loctite fan and would rather i had problems getting a bolt out when i want than it falling out when i dont!... BUT in places where locktite is not practical use nord-lock washers and Schnorr washers (there like spring washers but way better!) use nylock nuts aswell and K-nuts.

Dont put copper grease near anything electrical.. for that use vasaline or proper 'electrical contact grease' as copper greae is metal based and it will cause a short! and as Redboots says dont use scotchlocs, catch you doing that and i will sent the boys round and make you watch endless repeats to the cup final as they are very nasty!!!

enjoy the trip..
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  #15  
Old 12 Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyMark View Post
As Matt said, "it's possible to link the ring end of one spanner round the open jaw of another"


Proof positive a picture is worth a thousand words! This has facilitated stubborn nut removal for me on many occasions.

As Henry says, taking a piece of pipe which fits snugly over your spanners also works well.

Matt
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