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Yamaha Tech Originally the Yamaha XT600 Tech Forum, due to demand it now includes all Yamaha's technical / mechanical / repair / preparation questions.
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  #1  
Old 12 Dec 2007
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86 XT600Z starter motor

Hi,has anyone here replaced their starter motor in their Tenere?
Mine has a Mitsuba SM-8227 in there and it's stuffed.According to the manual,it should have an SM-8 in there.Now when I search on the net for an SM-8,I come up with a lot of Honda ATVs and various road bikes running the same starter....But,they are slightly different to mine in the fact they don't seem to have a cog on the end to drive the gears in the engine or anywhere to put a circlip to hold a cog on.
I have also tracked down a starter locally,chinese made,which is the same as above,no provision to attach the drive cog.
It's kinda getting fustrating kick starting this big monster everyday,it becomes a bit hit and miss as to wether it'll fire first kick or maybe 15th kick!
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  #2  
Old 14 Dec 2007
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Cog?

Obviously you need the drive cog, so your options are:
- Get the correct starter. Apparently the manual is wrong; maybe you can use the coils from the Chinese one in your mechanically (but not electrically?!) still working starter
- Repair your original starter. What is the problem: brushes, coil, ?
- Get all the adjustments right for good kickstarting; these bikes, when well tuned, start very easily by kicking - see large number of posts

Good luck!
Auke
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  #3  
Old 14 Dec 2007
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Rebuildable?

I have rebuilt all manner of japanese starter motors. unless the armature is blown apart it is possible to put in new brushes and turn down the armature and clean 20 years of gunk out. And brushes are available for most any starter no matter what some people say.
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  #4  
Old 18 Dec 2007
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a bit off subject, ...


I had to rewire the motor a bit after discovering the carb bowl was leaking a tad if I forgot to switch off the petcocks. Leak a bit of petrol and the sealing rubber O-rings perish quite quickly. Can you say WHOOOSH!?
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  #5  
Old 26 Dec 2007
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Ok,just a bit of an update to this.Since I've had a bit of time in the last few days,I pulled the carbys off and had a looky inside.
I found the float level set to 12mm (carb upside down,measure from bowl gasket face to bottom of float) I set that to 22mm,still 3-5mm down from what it should be.Reassembled everything and took for a ride.Bike started surging at part throttle.So upped the idle mixture...Didn't fix it.Pulled the carbs out again and decided to have a look at the needle settings.
Opened up the secondary first as it's easiest to open and found the needle set to it's lowest postition (clip at top of needle)..Interesting...
Then pulled apart the primary and it's set at stock (#3) positition.
Still doesn't explain the part throttle surging,which only happend since I set the floats correctly.
Edit- should also point out the jetting is still stock-

So I've leaned off the mixture through the float setting,fuel level is at 7-8mm,plug was looking a bit lean and the muffler was also looking very "clean",normally sooty black.
Now the only mods done are a two brothers muffler and I've done the usual airbox trick - block off the bottom air feeds and open up the back of the airbox. Now doing the 2nd mod would possibly have leaned it off a bit more,right?
So I'm guessing to drop the secondary needle back down to stock settings should/might help?
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  #6  
Old 26 Dec 2007
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Rich

Seems that the previous owner wrongly adjusted the float and compensated by adjusting the second needle.
If you list the needle two positions this should certainly improve things.

Recommend however to set the float at the factory standard. Then, the airbox mod you did is a good idea but leans it out a bit. Keep checking (best with axhaust gas analyser) what the mixture is; these models have a history of overheating because of a just too lean mixture.

Auke
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  #7  
Old 26 Dec 2007
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rebuild that motor dude!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobbo View Post
Hi,has anyone here replaced their starter motor in their Tenere?
Mine has a Mitsuba SM-8227 in there and it's stuffed.According to the manual,it should have an SM-8 in there.Now when I search on the net for an SM-8,I come up with a lot of Honda ATVs and various road bikes running the same starter....But,they are slightly different to mine in the fact they don't seem to have a cog on the end to drive the gears in the engine or anywhere to put a circlip to hold a cog on.
I have also tracked down a starter locally,chinese made,which is the same as above,no provision to attach the drive cog.
It's kinda getting fustrating kick starting this big monster everyday,it becomes a bit hit and miss as to wether it'll fire first kick or maybe 15th kick!
As Auke and Bill Ryder point out 2 things really.
1, a well set up XT should start easy, 3 Kicks MAX, keep the throttle closed, flood it and you WILL be a puddle of sweat before she starts.
2, repair the motor, its not hard, i know this is NOT QUITE on topic but it is if you see what I mean.....
My Dad has a VW Passat, Interior Cabin Fan broke so NO FAN = NO AIRCON. VW quote 650 Euro's to repair with NEW fan, after market Fan but same make was 360 Euro's, I bought brushes that were too long and too fat for 13 Euro's, filed em down on some Wet 'n' Dry Paper, soldered em in, cleaned the Commutator, Job done. happy Daddy!

Lets see, you have a DEAD starter...... what harm can it do to TRY to fix it? I don't see what you have to lose Dude..

Martyn
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  #8  
Old 26 Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynbiker View Post
As Auke and Bill Ryder point out 2 things really.
1, a well set up XT should start easy, 3 Kicks MAX, keep the throttle closed, flood it and you WILL be a puddle of sweat before she starts.
2, repair the motor, its not hard, i know this is NOT QUITE on topic but it is if you see what I mean.....
My Dad has a VW Passat, Interior Cabin Fan broke so NO FAN = NO AIRCON. VW quote 650 Euro's to repair with NEW fan, after market Fan but same make was 360 Euro's, I bought brushes that were too long and too fat for 13 Euro's, filed em down on some Wet 'n' Dry Paper, soldered em in, cleaned the Commutator, Job done. happy Daddy!

Lets see, you have a DEAD starter...... what harm can it do to TRY to fix it? I don't see what you have to lose Dude..

Martyn
The biggest problem was the broken springs for the brushes.
I've since ordered genuine Yamaha parts,at $165NZ!,but it was going to cost about that to get some no name parts from the USA anyways.
Plus I'd rather have the satisfaction of knowing the parts will be a perfect fit etc.
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  #9  
Old 26 Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aukeboss View Post
Seems that the previous owner wrongly adjusted the float and compensated by adjusting the second needle.
If you list the needle two positions this should certainly improve things.

Recommend however to set the float at the factory standard. Then, the airbox mod you did is a good idea but leans it out a bit. Keep checking (best with axhaust gas analyser) what the mixture is; these models have a history of overheating because of a just too lean mixture.

Auke
I ended up setting the secondary needle back to standard and changed the primary to 1 step richer.
Took for a ride and did a plug chop and everything seems fine.
The carbs should still be slightly rich with the floats set at 22mm rather than the standard 25-27.The fuel level is still at 7-8mm also.
So I'd say I'm pretty damn lucky I dont have a hole in a piston or something worse due to some idiot playing around in there!
Just makes me wonder what else they got their hands on
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  #10  
Old 26 Dec 2007
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its not rocket science mate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobbo View Post
The biggest problem was the broken springs for the brushes.
I've since ordered genuine Yamaha parts,at $165NZ!,but it was going to cost about that to get some no name parts from the USA anyways.
Plus I'd rather have the satisfaction of knowing the parts will be a perfect fit etc.
$165NZ? hells bells dude! you coulda took it to an Auto Electrician ( a good backstreet place preferably run by a scruffy old geezer with a permanent ciggy in his mouth and constant squint.....there usually the best guys) and had it fixed for less than half that!

Hope ya got it sorted anyway.

martyn
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  #11  
Old 26 Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynbiker View Post
$165NZ? hells bells dude! you coulda took it to an Auto Electrician ( a good backstreet place preferably run by a scruffy old geezer with a permanent ciggy in his mouth and constant squint.....there usually the best guys) and had it fixed for less than half that!

Hope ya got it sorted anyway.

martyn
I know! But I can't be bothered with my local auto electican pissing around,he's just too busy as he's that good everyone uses him. Unfortunatly the old geezer you decribed passed away a few years ago,he would have been ideal,if a little slow..But he was very precise in what he did.
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  #12  
Old 27 Dec 2007
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Hmm now it has a miss up top (80-90km/h+) on full throttle.
PLug is still a good colour,pipe is actually cleanish.Pulling the choke out makes it worse,so I wonder if the secondary is slightly too rich now.

Edit- Just pulled secondary lid off and changed the needle to fully rich...No change,so that almost says to me the float level set at 12mm was compensating for something else.Almost makes me wonder if someone has drilled some jets out or something.
So now I think I'll just change it all back to the way it was,least it ran properly,but made it hard to kick..JOY!

Last edited by Yobbo; 27 Dec 2007 at 07:03.
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