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Yam xtz 750 super tenere or Honda xlv750 AT?
Oh, don't you just love to read comparisons on "which bike"? ;-)
Anyway: My latest sweet itch is choosing between a 91 or 92 Yamaha XTZ 750 Super Tenere or a Honda XLV 750 Africa Twin 92 or 93 model. The one I finally choose is going to be the bike I use when I for example tour Iceland with one of my kids riding pillion (my wife bringing the other kid on her F650 Funduro), no serious off-roading (obviously), some asphalt touring in Ireland and stuff, and maybe a trip to Morocco in a couple of years time. Which one, which one? (No, not BMW this time - just one of the two brands mentioned.) Take care out there! Kind regards Indu |
Ok so i'm no expert on either but being an XTZ660 rider I supprisingly would say go for the Africa Twin...
Biggest reason -Spares must be easier to get hold of, the XTZ750s are so few and far between that I would expect you to have to wait for all parts to be delivered at least theer are loads more ATs on the road... Don't get me wrong I love MY XTZ660 but since you haven't offered that as a choice then AT - I we can change your mind the 660 is a great bike, ideal for one but no problems doing 2, easy to get parts and it's simple to work on... with all the characteristics of the other 2 in fairings and comfort.... think on it.... Ciao, Tony. |
Hi, I would go for the Africa Twin! In Norway there are many ATs, so the price are good. Easy to get parts for also.. but change the seat, its not that good on longer tripps..
Når skal du til Island?? Hadet gøy! -yngve- |
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Africa Twin for the above reasons plus build quality,reliabilty and the smooth v-twin engine.
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I see, I see. Good arguments for the AT so far. No, thumpers are out, Tony, but thanks anyway. I know several of you 660 owners are raving about your bikes, and probably for good reasons. I choose twin for comfort - a smoother ride, also according to mcdarbyfeast - although I know the Thumperistas might prove me wrong. Parts availability seems like a good point, of course.
Right. I'll wait for others who might have a comment on the issue before deciding, but it seems like the AT takes it all. Yngve: Jeg reiser til Island først neste år. Kona må ta lappen og kjøre seg inn på Funduroen i år. Hvor holder du til i verden? Kind regards Indu |
hello
I wouldn't go near an xtz750, all Ive heard about them is bad news, I don't know anyone who Ive asked about them to reccommend one. I am also looking for a simular bike, AT or BMWGS series, I ruled out the yamaha due to build quality etc.. however they are considerably cheaper and you would get parts within 2 days anywhere in europe but the AT is good and is my first choice with BMW coming in second only because they need a bit more looking after. |
Hello,
Met the brothers orr in Africa who rode down on XTZ 750's, the frame did not last... Drop them an email for some great stories. http://www.brothersorr.com/transafrica/home/home.htm Then again i drove a NX650 down, and errrhhh the frame did crack but only the rear subframe.. so thats ok. |
Here in Italy absolutely no problem for XTZ 750 spares ..it had its problems (rectifier) like also Africa Twins (Fuel pump) AT's are reputed as more sturdy and more stable on road , but is 25% less powerful than XTZ so the difference it's relative ... both needs serious streghtening work for raid/offroad use...but XTZ is more protected (better bashplate)
Since here the used AT are really overpriced (even the double of an XTZ for same conditions) I would surely go for a XTZ. |
Hello
Be aware that there was a model shift for the AT between 92 and 93. From rd04 to rd07 there is quite a few differences, worth taking in consideration. Send me an mail if you have questions, email in my profile. One last important notice!! There have been some cases of broken frame on the first year of rd07 (93)in germany. Frode |
Even I ride later model of XTZ 660, dont think much, choose Africa Twin. It is true that AT is slightly underpowered for V-twin 750 ccm engine, but smooth runing and reasonale torque make it better option that revvy XTZ 750, which I owned previously. XTZ 750 has lots of power but also take a lot of fuel, and my overall impresions are that AT offers more.
Regards, AnteK |
AT, definitely.
More aftermarket parts More comfortable on asphalt & better off More reliable - has the magic Hona badge http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif Engine understressed Lots about - you'll find a good one Build quality is brilliant Everyone who has a SuperTen has one because they couldn't afford an AT, in my experience. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif I rode one with 128,000 miles on it the other day and it felt like new. Amazing. |
Thank you all for your replies. It seems to me that the AT is the way to go (or ride?), even if giorgioXT makes a good point regarding the XTZ. And thanks for pointing out the model shift issue, Frode. Wasn't it also a different and somewhat higher bhp output in the earlier 750 models (91-93?)than in later ones?
Again: Thank you all. AT it is for me, then. Ride safe! Regards Indu |
If i'm not wrong about bhp
RD03 58 bhp 1988-1989 RD04 59 bhp 1990-1992 RD07 62 bhp 1993-1995 RD07/a 60 bhp 1996-2003 And as i see it: RD04 + Suspension-better and rebuildable + Stronger frame + Higher + Fuel light - Weight - Fuel economy - Airfilter RD07 + Lower center of gravity + Airfilter + Lighter - Suspension not rebuildable - Fuel pump - No warning light for low fuel RD07/a As RD07 but with even cheaper suspension parts with no adjusment besides spring preload on the back. RD07 and up is equiped with safty rims that makes roadeside repair more difficoult.But may save your ass when having a puncture, loaded up with passenger and equipment. [This message has been edited by frnas (edited 29 January 2004).] |
Some confusion here... the XLV750 is Honda's offroad shaft drive (1985 and 1986). Africa Twins are all chain-drive XRV650s and XRV750s. All great bikes, mind you.
Just rode my 1990 AT 12,000 km through Europe. No problems. My 1992 AT has now done 70,000 km around Oz and still feels like a new bike. My four Honda V-Twins (XLV750, XRV600, XRV750, XRV750) have done a total 250,000 km without any major problems. Sold the 1990 XRV750 to a young bloke in Holland... and he's rapt. He rode a similar AT around NZ and crossed Oz the hard way, without any problems. Africa Twins rule. OK? Paul ------------------ ozcan |
Yep, you're right. XRV - not XLV. On the ruling issue, however, I'd guess there are some dicrepancies between your view and, say, the average BMW rider ;-)
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I have had XTZ 750, now riding XTZ 660, several friends ride AfricaTwin. My opinion XTZ 750 vs. XLV 750? Africa apsolutely!
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i used an XTZ 750 to go from England to Cape Town in 1995 2 up and then solo around the middle east for 2 years in 2000/1.
Because it was cheap to buy, I bought h/d white power fork springs, and an Ohlins rear shock because I knew the suspension would take a hammering and left the engine standard. the bike was 100 per cent reliable on both trips despite minimal maintenance |
Super Tenere's biggest problem is a weak frame, specially around the upper engine mounting bolts - bit of welding needed to strengthen it properly.
The engines last: I've seen several Supers with +200.000 km in their clock without any greater problems. Biggest reason for reported bad mpg is wear of carb needles and specially needle tubes - have to replace them every 30.000 km or so. The nature of the engine is more rev-happy compared to AT; some say it's because of the tilted carbs of Yamaha's Genesis concept giving on-off response (also the position is the reason for needle tube wear), some say because ST pushes 10hp more than AT. I'm happy with certain point-and-shoot power delivery; certainly a big grin factor on gravel roads... Parts availability shouldn't be any problem specially since the differences between year models are mostly different colours and stickers... The best EU source for parts & accessories must be German KEDO (http://www.kedo.com) - specialized in 1- and 2-cylinder Yamahas (and nowadays also DL- and SV-Suzukis) but basic service parts should be found from any general Yamaha shop. My "Winter Project '05/'06" is a '89 Super Tenere. Into bits and pieces (see www.heikkil.com/supertenere/pics/runko.jpg) and back to life again. As Dick previously said, the price difference between ST and AT gives a chance to upgrade suspension properly and also bolt on other goodies (here we go again... :-) ). Indu: Have a GREAT time in Iceland! I spent there 11 months 2001-2002 and the place is just amazing! [This message has been edited by TenereHeikki (edited 09 November 2005).] |
XTZ frame strenghtening
Hi Heikki,
Can you explain more clearly exactly where and how the frame needs strenghtening on the XTZ. I'd like to do it as pat of my rebuild but would like to get it right first time so that my welds don't interfere with reassembling the bike? Quote:
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The most important welding point is the rear upper engine mounting area; see http://www.heikkil.com/supertenere/vahvistus.JPG It's easy job for professional welder and engine fits in w/o any problems. You could also weld the holes that hold the spark plug wire supports (those black plastic things) and in case you plan to carry heavy side / rear bags also subframe. Here the completed ST: http://www.heikkil.com/supertenere/valmis3.jpg |
Africa twin versus Super Tenere?
Both bikes have their pro's and cons, as riding bike's is an emotional issue get what you like, personally i find the AT more of a Touring bike, so more comfy on highways, and Tenere more suited for off road riding, and easier to ride off road because it pulls from 1500 rpm and the power is linear, so lots of traction in poor conditions, and you can ride the bike slowly off road, The AT below 3000 rpm therés nobody home, but goes better to 7000 rpm's, more shifting needed, than a super tenere, AT tends to stall if you ride shiftlazy, the super you can idle through deep sand, and town, and will go 200k.
I've riden both Supers and AT's extensively, also in Enduro's, both wonderfull bike's, and like both alot, both bikes are very reliable, and both have their isue's that need dealt with, if they would be cars i'd say the S10 would be the Landrover and the AT would be the Range Rover, his and hers Good luck shopping Just get what you like |
ST verus AT
If you get A super Tenere, from ''94 they have the relyable clutch and rectifier, no issues, very 40k's replace emulsiontubes in carbs.
Also check floatbowl levels, often the reason for rich fuel mixture. AT different issues, mainly with fuelpump every 40k, not cheap, generatorissue's at every 50 k, so get a heavy duty one, brake calipers need to be cleaned at regular basis, since they are single piston. |
Africa twin
Hi Everyone
:D:clap: Go the Africa Twin Bring them back into production as they were. Dont have one and unless they are bought back into production am never likley to have one here in OZ Being mechanically minded I love their reports, their apperance alone is a stand out in the crowd. Cheers Champ :mchappy: Go the AT |
Sorry, another AT vote here. Mine was a 1998. Just run-in at 19,000miles when I got her.
The bits that break are well known and fixable in advance (fuel pump, choke cable, regulator/rectifier). Can't imagine why the frame needs strengthening - we did brighton2capetown with loaded, large, metalmules. The bike was well over 300kg on the scales and the subframe was straight even after all the crashing I indulged in! People are carrying that AND a pillion too. I did replace the rear shock with an Ohlins partly because the originals are ALL tired by now and the variable ride-height adjuster was a nice thing to play with out in Africa. |
160000 km on Super Tenere
Over the last 19 Years i drove 160000 km with my ST in Australia,NZ,US,Asia,Europ.
No Breakdown's, exept Weelpunkture,s. New Valveseats at 70000 km was all wich was be done on the Engine. Now everything on the Bike is worrn out, but the Bike is still running Superb. Greetings Peter |
Super Ten owner comments
I owned a XTZ-750 "Super Ten" here in New Zealand for about three years and 8,000KMs. It is high and heavy, but so are most big trail bikes. Lots of fuel in tank, engine powerful enough for all uses, it's a large motorcycle that fits taller riders well. Suspension is strictly average, despite much fiddling by yours truly. Great two up bike, nice brakes, unobjectionable vibration. Riding position very good and I found it comfortable for long trips. Rectifier did die on mine, but that was the only problem ever. The side covers are an annoying joke-they bulge out tremendously in an effort to visually emulate the fuel tanks that the PD race bikes had. They are simply empty and stick way out, getting in the way of mounting saddlebags-I'd remove them and put something homemade if I was to mount panniers. Headlights good, fairing provides something to hide behind in rain. Bikes like this are just too tall and heavy to do any real offroading (and I used race dirt bikes a long time ago in a galaxy far away). It's the motorcycle equivalent of an SUV - looks dirt savvy but is meant for the road, that's why Yamaha turned subsequent incarnations into road only machines. For me, both the Honda and Yamaha are too big and heavy to take anything but the smoothest dirt roads - you can ride them but they are stressful to manhandle. There are aftermarket center stands available, would be nice to have. Good luck!
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Choose a XTZ 750?
I have owned a number of Super Teneres and have never been dissappointed. The older models 1989-91 did have a week subframe and it needs to be reinforced. I incorporated a luggage rack that had a dual purpose. Early models had a weak regulator but that is an easy fix. Later models have virtually all probs solved.
My trusted 1996 model has 135,000 kms, has been on many continents with very rough roads and has never let me down with more than a flat tire. I never have to ad oil between 8000kms oil changes. Having to carry oil ads a lot of extra weight. Tuned properly I get 19 - 21 kms/liter at moderate speeds. The 26 liter tank has a 4 liter air reservoir that can be accessed by punching small holes in the filler neck and will then give you around 600kms range. It has no catalytic converter so can burn leaded fuel and there are a few third world countries that still use it. The engine has 69 h/power which is adequate to carry me, my wife and 12 months luggage. I like the dry sump as it cools the engine better and won't allow all of your oil to be dumped onto the road should you hit a large rock with your engine. Prices in Europe are fantastic and you can buy 6 for the price of the new XT1200Z. My second choice for 2 up adventure riding is the Africa Twin and the reasons it comes second are: 10 kilos heavier 10 h/power less Oil capacity is only 2.5liters instead of 4 for XTZ 23 liter fuel tank as XTZ can have 30 Lights and brakes are better with A/T but that is an easy fix for the XTZ. Prices are generally cheaper for the XTZ. Seating comfort on both models are horrible, so it is manditory to modify them, ie gel etc. Any complaints I have heard normally comes from a poorly maintained bike. Africa Twins are more popular as they were sold in some countries til 2002 and XTZ only til 1996. If you carry a parts list of either bike, any Honda or Yamaha dealer can order your parts. Japanese dealers are found in even the most remote countries. Advantages of travelling with an older bike like these are that: Less likely to be stolen Carnets are cheaper Mechanics around the world can still work on them If you have to leave it because of an injury or a hijacking, it won't break the bank. Parts are still acessable and cheaper than the latest model Travelling is not cheap, so you need to save as much as you can to stay on the road longer. Any specific questions, just ask. Cheers, Patrick Peck www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/peck :thumbup1: |
The AT is a more expensive bike though.
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HANDS DOWN ITS GOT TO BE THE YAMAHAs OR HONDAs
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coasttocoast,
Ever heard the expression "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" This is totally :offtopic: but it's a very old thread anyway Go back and watch "The long Way Down" again. The parts that broke were the aftermarket Ohlins shocks that they fitted not the original BMW parts. I have a 1200GS which has taken me all over the world without any major problems and after 120,000km I'm very happy with it. Also as for being overpriced, In Australia at least the price of the 1200gs is comparable with the new Super Tenere, and the XT660z Tenere is more expensive than the BMW G650gs By the way I also own a '83 600 Tenere 34L and a 660z Tenere, they have there faults too, but I still love all three bikes. You don't say if you've owned or do own a BMW?? I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm just sick of people BMW bashing (or any make) without good cause or reason. Chrispy |
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Yes, it is an old thread, but still relevant - here in the UK the price of ATs has risen quite a bit, and they are as much in demand as they ever have been. I believe the XTZ 750 is a much rarer beast here nowadays (judging by the numbers of "for sale" advertisements) - perhaps they have all been thrashed to death or maybe their owners are hanging on to them? Funnily enough, no one seems to post much information in the HUBB about the new version of the ST (but it has received some very good reports in the biking press in the UK). Nor do I think it would be worth bringing such newer models of bikes into this kind of comparison thread - it would be a case of comparing apples with bananas (or something like that anyway!!) |
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