DR650SE vs XT660Z Tenere for Africa & beyond....

[ungeheuer]

I'm aware that I'm asking both the unanswerable and that its probably all been said before....... but...

Any thoughts on which would be the better steed for the task?

In Australia (where the bike will be purchased) DR650 is around half the cost of XT660Z. Can the Yamaha really be twice as good :confused1: ??

There are positives for the Suzuki's simplicity in Africa, no?

Its uncomplicated. Its air cooled. Its not fuel injected. Its lighter. At the price, if it became a total loss along the way..... it wouldnt be the end of my financial world. Also at the price it allows plenty of room for spending up on some trip-specific mods...... Safari fuel tank.... suspension upgrade....

On the other hand (damn that other hand - lol).... The Yamaha may be more trip ready right out of the box. It has fuel injection which - until it fails in the middle of nowhere - is both a benefit and a negative. Its water cooled, so cooler running in slow going is offset by greater complexity. It has some integral wind protection. And once I get beyond Africa (intending to travel South to North) in Europe it will surely make a nicer ride than the DR. I see the Yamaha as a nice compromise between the Suzuki's utilitarian simplicity and BMW F800GS.....

Ladies and Gentlemen, your thoughts please....

[docsherlock]

Get the DR and upgrade it. Whichever you buy it will be ****ed by the time you get it to Europe anyway - better off trashing a cheaper bike.

[MikeS]

Yep, get the DR but maybe get your add-ons from the US as it was pretty expensive in Oz. I just put high renthal bars, corbin seat, a 20L clear tank (get a lockable filler cap), 2nd hand andy strapz bags and a cheap windscreen on mine. I was worried about hitting Europe too but it was easily capable of sitting at 70mph if needed.

[dave ett]

The DR will cope well with motorway speed cruising if you choose to do so. Get a sheepskin for the seat, a bigger tank and something lockable for the rear rack to keep your valuables safe when you stop.

The lighter the finished bike, the more you'll get out of any off roading you do.

[MountainMan]

Indeed, an endlessly debate, both options are perfectly fine.

As a personal bias, don't know which route you intend on taking down but if you do the more common route (east coast) and ride off road as much as the average overlander, then I would choose the XT660. Its a long way to the bottom and in my experience, most riders don't to utilize the performance advantages that a lighter bike like a DR would provide due to neutralizing factors such as heavy weight of all the travel gear and the understandable desire to minimize risk by riding decent roads.

I mentioned on a different post but I did meet a rider on the west coast in the DRC who had bought a lighter, older XT to ride through Africa because he thought that it would be better to have light bike and when I met him he wished that he had ridden his XT660 down instead.

If you are looking at increasing your options by thinking of buying outside of Australia, there is a post in the bikes for sale section whereby some people have ridden two 660's down and are looking to sell in South Africa. Might be worth looking into. Either way, it won't really matter and you'll have the same adventure. Safe riding.

[GasUp]

I have a XT660Z, and a TT600RE. Which bike would I take for that trip? The Tenere handles the rough stuff bl00dy well, and in the right hands it looks like poetry over the knarly-est (if that's even a word!) of ground.

We (4 Teneres) took on the Portugal off-road route in May and the bikes worked perfectly well fully loaded with all the usual stuff to camp and feed yourself. Sand was a personal issue to me, but those who mastered it did so with style.

As for maintenance, well there's not much you can't do on the roadside, the bike is pretty well sorted for that, and even major work only takes a short time to get to the motor.

I have used the TTR for camping, and it struggles a bit with all the gear and me.

On the fast roads, even the rocky, sandy fast roads I think I'd take the Tenere over the TTR. On slow, technical stuff I'd take the TTR......

Tough choice.

[*Touring Ted*]

DR650SE !!

The Tenere is heavy and not what we hoped it would be from the reports i've been hearing.

The DR is a great bike and if I can do Africa on its little brother (DRZ400), then the 650 will be a dream..

I wanted the DR650 for Africa but I couldnt find a decent one in the UK.

[Mickey D]

Originally Posted by ungeheuer

I'm aware that I'm asking both the unanswerable and that its probably all been said before....... but...
Any thoughts on which would be the better steed for the task? In Australia (where the bike will be purchased) DR650 is around half the cost of XT660Z. Can the Yamaha really betwice as good :confused1: ??
There are positives for the Suzuki's simplicity in Africa, no?
Its uncomplicated. Its air cooled. Its not fuel injected. Its lighter. At the price, if it became a total loss along the way..... it wouldnt be the end of my financial world. Also at the price it allows plenty of room for spending up on some trip-specific mods...... Safari fuel tank.... suspension upgrade....

On the other hand (damn that other hand - lol).... The Yamaha may be more trip ready right out of the box. It has fuel injection which - until it fails in the middle of nowhere - is both a benefit and a negative. Its water cooled, so cooler running in slow going is offset by greater complexity. It has some integral wind protection. And once I get beyond Africa (intending to travel South to North) in Europe it will surely make a nicer ride than the DR. I see the Yamaha as a nice compromise between the Suzuki's utilitarian simplicity and BMW F800GS.....
Ladies and Gentlemen, your thoughts please....

I would ride both and see which you like more. See if the Yamaha is truly worth twice the money. All depends on your wants and needs, your budget and your ultimate travel plans. We don't get the Tenere' in the USA. I own a DR650 and have owned and traveled on several Dual Sports (XR650L, KLR650, XR400, 600, XL600R and more) I've also ridden the yam 660 powered MUZ Baghira. Vibey sucker.

A couple comments:
Air/Oil Cooling
Google Suzuki SACS air/oil cooling system. It's very good, proven in hot temps for decades. Use good oil (synthetic when possible). Just not a worry at all. Very reliable motor over all.

F.I.
I would not worry about F.I. Keep your battery strong and fresh, Air filter clean, you'll be fine. If battery gets low, you're screwed. F.I. gives great fuel economy, never a care about altitude. Less power loss, and better MPG up high.

Weight
The weight differential would be a concern for me. The Tenere' weighs 208 kgs. (458 lbs.) wet (22 liters of fuel) With any sort of off road riding weight is a big factor. The DR650 is 367 lbs. (wet weight with 3.5 US gallon tank) That is a 91 lbs. difference. That would probably account for ALL your luggage, tools, extra fuel and water.

Reviews say the Tenere' hides its weight well off road. Ok, fine.

Highway Cruising
If set up right, the DR650 is very nice on the highway. Can cruise comfortably ALL DAY at 75 mph, 10 hours a day, day after day. Its actually pretty smooth. Reports I've read state the XTZ Tenere' is quite vibey on highway. Read the reviews.
I owned a DL1000 before the DR and believe it or not the DR is nearly as long distance capable ... with a Corbin seat of course. A "must do" mod.
All travel bikes will need some extras. Not sure what the Tenere' would need, probably a seat at the least. The DR needs a better seat for sure.

Fuel Economy
A BIG PLUS on the Yamaha is fuel economy. The DR650 gets about 50 MPG
(US Gallons) The Tenere' gets over 60 (so I've read) and comes stock with 22 liter tank. An IMS tank can be had for the DR, holds 5 US Gallons.
For off road travel the DR could do with suspension upgrades. Nothing major ... Springs, maybe a re-valved shock.
The Yamaha is a beauty, slick, modern Dakar Hip ... looks very well made as well. The DR is a bit funky, not flashy, a bit ugly, but very strong. Both bikes can be loaded up. I only have experience on the DR for this, but reports indicate the Tenere' can handle a load.

Simplicity and Expendability
The DR is one of the most straight forward and simple bikes to work on I've seen. Yet its a modern design, using proven high tech components. It's also cheap to buy (buy used) so if things go wrong and you lose it ... its not life shattering.
Crash worthiness is a DR strong suit. No water hoses or radiators to be ripped off or pumps to fail. Simple Alu case guards is all you need. No heavy Bull bars (engine guards) required. Single disc front brake compared to dual disc on the Yam. Do you really need twin disc brakes for Africa?

DR has a lower seat height, but less suspension travel. But I'll take a 90 lbs. lighter weight bike any time. Once both are loaded up, neither will be Moto Crossers. But 90 lbs. is 90 lbs. no matter HOW YOU FIGURE IT ... and trust me ... you will feel it. Especially when the bike pins you.
A well set up DR makes a pretty good trail bike, can handle deep sand surprisingly well. Knobby tires a must. Good on rocky trails, great on high speed fire roads, two tracks, pistes.

Why is the DR650 smooth?
1. Counterbalanced motor
2. Rubber isolated handlebars
3. Rubber isolated foot pegs.

[ungeheuer]

Thanks guys for the benefit of your thoughts and experience .

My inner Western Wanker would love to do this trip on a BMW F800GS.... and whilst I could afford to make this choice... where I'm intending to travel I'm fearful of the high tech complexities of such a machine... am concerned about the weight of it and aware that I wont need all that lovely HP.... So I tried to persuade my WW side that Yamaha's XT660Z is almost as.... um... cool .... yet less complex. A compromise if you will. But reading the majority of your comments confirms to me that this journey will be best served by making purely practical choices. And whilst the shallow WW within is underwhelmed by the DR650's street cred.... my Captain Sensible side tells me that keeping it simple is probably the way to go.

So cool though it aint, the DR650 - with a few tweaks - probably is the tool for the job. Deep down I knew this already. But I had to ask to shut that wanker up .

Thanks again.

[geoffshing]

I rode through Africa with an American guy, Mark Hammond. He was on a DR650 (with Tweaks).

You may want to check out his blog....... Ride Far | Mark Hammond on some of the prep and weight saving he did for his bike.

[Mickey D]

Originally Posted by ungeheuer

Thanks guys for the benefit of your thoughts and experience .
So cool though it aint, the DR650 - with a few tweaks - probably is the tool for the job. Deep down I knew this already. But I had to ask to shut that wanker up .

You really should come out to N. California and do some of our nasty roads. Here dual sport bikes rule the day. In our group of about 60 riders, we've got 7 DR650's. Almost all our guys own multiple bikes: KTM's, BMW R12GS, F800GS and much more. On some of our rides that resemble the 3rd world, the DR becomes the bike of choice. We blast by sports bikes and even big GS's when the going gets nasty.

Once you're on the thing a while ... it's cool factor will grow on you ... trust me on this. Took me a while to believe it too. Very cool bike ... and very quick on tight, loose, whooped out paved roads. Only KTM super motos and the like are quicker. (TIP: if riding with KTM's, bring a tow rope, they'll need it )

Just a few of our DR's in action here in California and Mexico


Always a DR somewhere in the Mix, even on long road rides. This one was 2500 miles in 3 days.

A DR650 is often leading the group on a road like this ... these riders are not slow...

70 mph and tipping it in ...

One of two girl riders aboard DR's (her "other" ride is an '07 R1200GS)

Death Valley approved DR650


Baja on one of several rides