Single vs Twin?
 

XT660Z Tenere Yamaha's XT 660 is undoubtedly a fine motorcycle and very capable off road. Possibly the only disadvantage is that it's a single and it makes hard work out of long sections of sealed road.

A 650 - 750 twin seems like it would be better at long straight sealed roads.

The new XT660Z Tenere weighs around 180Kg and carries 22 litres of fuel, so far so good.

A Kawasaki Versys, (650 parallel twin) weighs 180Kg, 18 Litres of fuel, fit it with a 21" front wheel and 18" rear wheel and the weight would be similar to the Yamaha but it would be a bit smoother and feel more relaxed at higher speeds

Am I missing something here? Why do none of the manufacturers offer a 650, twin cylinder, 160 - 180 Kg adventure bike?

What about Honda Transalps (600 - 650cc), Suzuki VStroms (650cc), and or Kawasaki KLEs (500cc)?.. They are all twins of the category you've mentioned and they are just a little heavier. And It's reasonable if you double the cylinder - motor - exhaust components.

cozcan

Not to mention the BMW 800GS, due any day soon!
If the 800S and 800ST are any indication, this will be a very interesting bike indeed. (there are lots of rumours about it in another thread in here).

Not to mention the Triumph Bonneville - another twin that has been prepared for long-distance riding (another thread on the HUBB).

Or, not to mention the Yamaha TDM - a very capable 900cc twin which is vastly under-rated, if not completely forgotten.

So the choice of twins is increasing, especially in 2008.

I completely agree about the potential of the Versys, BTW: perhaps 2009 will see this 650cc twin (KLE650?) replacing the KLE500?

Whatever way things go, the choice of dual sport bikes around 600-700cc is going to increase greatly in the near future.

ps The new Transalp is heavier than the old TA according to info gleaned from the Paris bike show - what sort of progress is that? (nothing against Honda, I've owned a few and I still have one).

Once you get on the motorways even a 2300cc Triumph gets tedious, even more so if you like to keep your licence and drive at legal speeds ( in most places).

The answer is to have a comfy bike that will allow you to go for as long as you want. As having to stop to find fuel every two hours can be as much of a PITA as anything else. Besides why rush? you are not going to interact with people on motorways, you may just as well fly somewhere nice and rent a monkey bike for a week or two.

Once you have the mindset that takes the byways and stops when you see something interesting, and not just to expensively service your thirsty bike you will start enjoying yourself.

Interesting comments and all very valid, I already own a couple of singles, a Yamaha DT 230 which is amazing capable both off road and on road, the 120 Kg weight makes it a real joy to ride when the going gets tough, it is perfect for trips where there is a lot of un sealed rough roads where there is a lot to see in a short distance. My KTM 640 LC4 SM is better on trips where the distances are greater, the 150 kg weight makes me think twice about venturing into the really rough terrain. I guess I am looking for a smaller and lighter KTM 990 Adventure or BMW 1200 GS, something that can comfortably cover bigger distances yet still be light enough to encourage some serious off road adventures. The Transalp, KLE, Bonneville etc are all very old tech, meaning heavy and a bit on the slow side. Surely with modern designs and advances in manufacturing methods a 160 – 170 kg twin cylinder adventure bike is entirely feasible. I have a number of specialised bikes from my 230 cc trial bike to a 1000 cc sports bike but what I want is a midsized adventure bike that combines the best qualities of all of these, light weight, comfort (it’s a personal thing but “Oldbmw” has it right, the ability to take your time and enjoy the whole days riding without having to stop for fuel often) and some performance that will make you smile want you are in the mood to go a bit quicker.

There are always lots of rumours about bikes like this but they never materialise.

Hi KiwiBruce,

"A lightweight KTM 990" - that will be the 690 single then.

The linked thread deals in rumours, but it prefers those which have some substance; for KTM, it is much more than rumour - the KTM financial planning up to 2009 is in there and the Adventure version of the 690 will be here next year, from memory.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...n-suzuki-28587

My comment; If I owned as many singles as you now have, I would definitely want some variety, like a twin!

So many choices! :rolleyes2:

No, it will be a HP2 :-)

HP2 175 kg / 77 kw / 115 Nm
KTM 990 199 kg / 72kw / 95 Nm
KTM 640 158 kg / 40 kw /55 Nm

Nice suggestion, how far will the HP2 go on a tank of fuel, is it just less or just more than the distance you can cycle in a day

Well it goes a bit further then I can cycle in a day :-)
Standard tank is around 200 km, HPN tank about 400 km..
If you drive carefully you can add 20%, but it's not easy to drive slow on a HP2.

KTM models
 

138- 148 Kg for the new(ish) 690 in various trim.
So the Adv version should be a light weight and still be pulling 60+ BHP.

KTM Present new LC4 models in Paris - Detail - News - KTM.com - Ready to Race

I looked at the BMW HP2 SM in a dealer a couple of weeks ago; their asking price was £12500 (and they had a straight face!).

Have recently been riding some new bikes, Kawasaki Versys, Yamaha XT 660 and also had a test ride on a KTM 690 SM and a Aprilia Shiver.

All very good bikes and quite different, the Versys wasn't me at all, it was stunningly smooth and capable but it just didn't make me grin, thinking about it, it was just too refined, it was like it had no soul, sorry Mr Kawasaki.

XT 660, a bit of a favourite for many people and rightly so, it made me smile, single are just cool, it's a bit on the heavy side but it does sit on the road nicely at 70 - 80 mph, very nice. It’s easy to see why they are so popular, solid engineering and a great reputable for lasting forever.

690 SM, it is light years ahead of my 640 SM, much smoother, much more flexible and has a sixth gear, just magic.

The Shiver is huge fun, it is very mild mannered at low revs and will very happily putter though town with very few revs. It has a true Jeckle and Hyde personality, open it up and it’s a real blast.

Apparently a picture is worth a thousand words . . . . in that case test ride must be worth a million words.

Which bike is best? That’s a very good question, my pick would be buy the Aprilia and the KTM 690 Enduro when it arrives

So much choice
 

Hi KiwiB,

Thanks for the feedback - you haven't made up my mind in the slightest though!! Nevermind.

KTM 690 Enduro - that's marketed already I believe, along with the SM. The next one due for 2008 is the Adv version.

For your quoted question: BMW F800GS = 178Kg dry, 207 Kg with all fluids and it's a twin of course.
The new F650GS is very similar with a lower spec.

Good point about the BMW, the local KTM (UK) shop told me the 690 enduro want be availble until March 08

Thanks for the update; I have been giving the KTM dealers a miss for now, until they are nearer to announcing the Adv version - I suppose it won't be anytime soon as that is the delivery date for the Enduro.

Hi guys (my 1st post),
I've been meaning to come on HUBB fior a while and it's magic, I find a very relevant topic in no time.

I'm starting to have the same dilemma as you KiwiBruce.

I have been riding my Fazer600 for aprox 2 years now and have recently sorted it out for another year after almost putting my name down for a 650 Dakar.

But again, I can't understand why there is such a lack of twin cylinder dual purpose bikes with off-road potential but which will also cruise on a motorway if need be.

Having no off road expereince, I don't want anything too heavy.. I know I'll be riding mostly on road in the Uk still but woul dlike to ride roads like we saw on LWD in Ethiopia last time or up valleys in the Alps without tarmac.. not hard stuff but adventurous for me!

The big BMW's I tried (1150 & 12 GS) were great fun but the weight and size would worry me off road (esp alone), lugagged up. On road and touring, they'd be great!

Yep I know the 800GS will be one, but teething problems and price will be an issue, esp if one wants ANY extras...

I don't know how "long legged" the Xt engine feels but the BMW650 wasn't keen over 80 and I'd say cruising would be about 70-80.. no fun say on a rainy day trying to get back to Northern England from Le Mans in 1 day!


So what is there? a decent smooth single? Hopefully gearing and power improvements on the Tenere (? it'll be the same as the XT though, no doubt)..it looks fab apart from being hindered by lack out blacktop mile-munching prowess, which I'll want to do sometimes.

DR650, KLE650.. other (mainly US) sites have plenty of fans but we don't have these bikes over in the UK now..are they any good..The KTM 640 might do.. and even heard it can sit happily on a straight bit of tarmac all day.. but when will they stop being so cagey about the h690 and how does a newbie cope with a 3500mile service interval when my first tour of trance was already 3000miles!- not good

Transalp, now heavy, and without 21" tyre... (btw does that help lots? particulary for a newbie?)
I wish they'd make a new Super Tenere:thumbup1:

The idea of converting a Versys or Wee strom is about as much on the cards as finding a bike of suite, but I don't want to be fettling and modifying bikes..

to be honest, I don't think it's much to ask: a middle-weight v twin (aren't twins better suited to off-road power delivery?), light enough to handle new-commers to dirt, steady enough to carry a tent and comfy/long legged enough to cruise?


PS maybe I'm being too apprehensive, weight might be less of an isuue than I thing and also the 21" wheel thing.. I plan to go on a couple of these off road training days.. need to find a recommended one but that's another topic.

Anyway, KiwiBruce, sorry to ramble on. If you find any suitable bikes ot easy ways to mod more road biased bikes, let me know!
Cheers
Kev

XTZ750 Super Tenere
 

its a Twin
1 exhaust
Fast on road
capable off road (if your strong as shes a top heavy swine)
but FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup1:

KiwiBruce, that ws a great post. Thanks buddy:thumbup:

I can understand now the basics of the front wheel size though it is a little counter-intuative for me as I have a road bicycle (large wheel diamter/thin tyres) and a mountain bike (smaller wheels and fatter tyres).

I don't have much experience to go on and that's probably why I'm so uncertain. My only "big" bike is my fazer 600.. in IL4 from Japan. For me a do-everything bike and bril (lucky) first bike.. it commutes, tours, motorways, and goes on the twisties but all on tarmac.

I've had test rides on a a few but only one bike that I now think I ought to consider for an all rounder with off road ability (650Dakar). The 1150 and 1200 are silly choices, I've come to think.
To be honest, I didn't think the handling on the Daker was all that bad but it may have had something to do with not pushing it due to the £1500 excess from teh BMW dealer. I was most struck not by the lack of oomph but 70+mph comfort and jerkyness at low revs/speeds. Therefore my thinking is a twin would be better. But maybe the XT660R handles cruising better and I've heard the engine/gearbox is slick...anyway there's no substitute for trying them though whether I get to try them off road as I intend to use is another matter.
I've tried a Multistrada, a Buell XB12Ss, KaTooM 950SM-R, the big BMWs and the F800S, but not a small v twin... and coming from a 1 big bike history which is different to any single or twin, I think I'd benfit from trying a Wee Strom or Versys as you did.
Having said that, I don't rev that high (don't have to on the fazer) as it's not really neccessary with our speed limits and engien power of even a 600 so I was at home in making the most from the various bikes I've demo'd. I;m not an expereinced rider though and didn't/don't pick up on things that are often mentioned in bike mags or by mates.
EG no fork dive felt natural and I didn't notice it being wierd; slower handling from the raked out front of teh Dakar felt as I expected; I wasn't taken aback by the lack of braking on any of the bikes I've tried... maybe I'm not attentive enough to the basics of motorcycling.. my feelings of the bikes was more biased by cockpit, comfort, engine note, practicality.. and so on.. oh well.
I'd love to try the KaTooM ADV 640/690 but it's just not possible with the numbers they sell.. no demo bikes available.. hmm.

Anyway thanks. Interesting you should think
I would've thought that a straightforward statment and it's how well the rider puts up with a single to make it bearable which is the variable aspect.

Yes, I'll have to proplery decide he road:ratio though no doubt that will change as soon as I start doing it! for now mostly tarmac (am I allowed to say that on this website:innocent::wink2:)

Oh and BTW, even if you are aware and take on board what people say about BMWs being surprisingly good, they will still blow you away when you take one for a test ride:cool4: but I get what you mean about not adding yet more choices.. I might have to decide before KTM release the 690 ADV!

ADVKev

Just to give me 2 pennies worth. Ive got a 06 yamaha XT660R (only had it 8weeks) and coming from a honda deauville which is a smooth twin, very much like the transalp once i started riding the XT i found it to be very snatchy on and off the throttle. For a big single its not too bad but can be a hand full at times. Messing around with the fuelling a bit helped but it is still no like a twin.

As for motorway riding many people on the .: XT660.com - The #1 XT660 Resource :. forum say they cruise at 80+mph all day and have not problems. The only thing is the R with its off road tyres dont really like any thing over 80mph as the big knobblies make the bars wiggle a bit and feel a bit wierd.

It is still a great bike, plenty of poke, and can handle its own off road or back roads. The only problems are the seat can be a bit hard after a long day in the seat, the tank will give 120miles before the light comes on at the best, and you need to add a high screen (like i have) to be comfortable on the motorway.

If your still interested or even not sign on to the above forum and it will give you masses of information to look through.

Just an update.
I have been confused and tempted by another bike by a very nice guy in a bike shop. Being bored over the hols, I dragged family to a dealer down near my Dad's in Exeter. They have looads of makes and I was mainyl there to ask when and how much for the new tenere. We chatted and it was cool although not much more than is already out there.
WE discuss other bikes, Transalp, F800 and come down to only one bike that is available now which could match the Tenere.

The Wee strom 650X.:mchappy:

For some reason I'd though it had 17" wheels on but the 19 would be a happy medium for me, a novice adventurer. Surely.
It's v twin would be better than a single for the reasons mentioned above esp on road and at any speed or overtaking.
It's lighter for what it is and the X comes without no ABS, a sturdy (IMHO) bash plate, hand guards that bolt on to the bar ends and a "touring" screen.

The only thing would be ground clearance although I'm sure it's more capable than I am imagining it to be and I've heard one can put long springs or forks on the front and a simple replacement shock on the rear.

I think it'll come down to these two really, not wanting a Katoom now with them not selling and being so cagey on the 690 as well as not oferring test rides and having a very short service interval. The DR's KLR's and Dakar's of this world seem outmoded now and the f800gs will cost too much for me,

Is this a wise bike to consider (the dl650x) along side a purpose built rtw 660 single?
Thank goodness I'm only having to choose between a couple of bikes, I;d be hopeless with a choice like the sportsbikers have!

Sounds like you've had a good Christmas!!
 

So Kev, you've gone full circle a few times I expect and it is now the DL650.
There are quite a few posts in here about that bike and I reckon if you search in here using, say, DL650, Weestrom, Wee Strom and similar you will get some ideas about that Suzi.

The X model is around £5100 from memory, but it may/should be less at this time of year.

I have a DL650 traded a F650 for it. The F being a thumper I feel was a little buzzy on the road and the DL is smother. The F is better off road and has better clearance. I have riden the DL 1000 miles (1600 km) in a day (once. I dont like to dam boring ride) The F 600 miles (960km) in a day hurt about the same. For me the DL is the better bike.

As far as twins and off road I think there gust bigger than a thumper. Harder to fit out of the way and get clearance (the DL dint even try). I hope the F800GS make suzuki rethink some of the DL line.

BMW are grate bikes I gust think there over rated and over priced. But the new F650GS is calling to me and a R80GS alwas stops me and makes me look.

single verses twin and KLE500
 

Thought I would add my thoughts on my KLE500 twin.
for what its worth the KLE500 is fine on the motorway at 70-80 mph and servicing is at 7500 and 15000 miles :thumbup1: also being of the old school design its easy to do your self, only problem I have with mine is tank size / range as to fuel consumption its better than my BMW R80 on a run but I dont know what it will be like with a heavy load. real nice thing about it was the price I only paid 3700 :D.
Cheers John

Back to the original question: the new F650GS fits here, and it is competitively priced by BMW standards i.e. similar to its predecessor in price while offering the Rotax twin engine with 71 HP in lieu of the 50 or so HP of the single. There does not seem to be too much discussion about this bike compared with the 800GS version going for bigger bucks.

This has been an interesting thread so far; I sense that the discussion may be swinging toward the age-old one of how much onroad Vs offroad riding the bike is required to do (and what is offroad anyway?).

Happy New 2008!

Kawasaki twins
 

That recommended service interval is interesting and different from the more usual every 4000 miles of many other Jap machines - I guess it is because of the state of tune of that engine?
I see that the Versys is also named, in the UK anyway, as a "KLE" (KLE650).
I have kind of wondered if they would produce a more direct replacement for the KLE500 to meet the Euro3 regs etc etc - something with a higher exhaust instead of the under-slung road silencer - maybe not?

Yamaha twins
 

Then there is the Yam TDM for sale brand new still; on UK ebay they are being offered (it's the time of year for offers) at £5000.
That is a lot of bike for such money - yes, it is a road going tourer but some of the Yam dealers refer to it as an "Adventurer". You have to love those marketing people!!

When will Yam produce a new Super Tenere now that the XT660Z is on the market for 2008?

What I want too - where is it?
 

Well that's the answer then! Just re-read this post, and I am in the same boat - a few very different bikes for different purposes.
Some with spokes, some with solid wheels.

"A bit on the slow side" - this is always a conundrum for me; if I am hooking on at much above 80 MPH then I am in some danger of being picked up for speeding (even when cars are passing me at faster speeds!) - that is a likelyhood in the UK nowadays.
So at what speed do I want to put in the miles on the tarmac? - the F650GS single can hold 80 MPH all day long and still return 70 MPG with 200 miles covered before refueling. 200 miles from about 16 litres.
So could my "old technology" Yam 900cc Diversion inline 4 cyl shaft drive, but the fuel economy was not as good and it cruised at around 85 MPH without significant wind blast (the F650 has some of the latter above, say, 75 MPH). About 200 miles using about 20 litres of fuel.

Horses for courses.

wow long time.. I'm revisiting this and will give you rreplies a better read again when I have more time but in the meantime my girlfirend has been convinced she loves bikes.
I'm told that no Teneres are available as test rides.. soo... hmm test a xt660r purely for the engine?

Vstrom650X seems nice and about the same price as the tenere plus until July (dammit I wanted to get it after the summer) a garmin Zumo for £99 at UK Suzi dealers!

The best would be the f800gs but at £1500 in basic trim and not yet a proven bike.. I'm doubt plus I bet I cannot use my Givi cases with the bmw!

Other options for 2 up riding?? I'm finding my fazer 600 absolutley fine for power.. its whne a traffic light turns red and I have to pull on the anchors, the fron dives like a hungry pelican! and that's with Ohlins fork spring upgrade and ohlins rear shocker too.. oh nad braided lines.
But for speed, I know I'd be happy on a BMW650 ish engine if it had 10 mph more smooth after 80, but overtakes at national speed limit and stablity 2 up on 85mph motorway starches .. I'm not so sure 650-660 singles will do it? apart from the KTM which who know when is coming and will be offroad focussed..

Which brings me onto the vstrom 650 argument.. will stock suspenion be able to comfortably hand 2 up plus luggage? I reckon most riding still will be 2 up no load or single, but as with my Scotland hol next month, I'm meering up with my girl for a few days 2 up riding...

other options? TDM? surely not capable enough for even dirt/gravel roads? power would be spot on mind..
I've also been realising that I'll want an mpg like my fazer (65mpg) with current prices! so that'll be tough and underseat storage too like the cavern I have ATM..
maybe I'll put a high fender and tourance tyres on the fazer!

More to consider
 

Well, take a look at Pecha72's posts about his DL650 performance while getting to Oz.
Now a well-proven bike, after years on the market without modification (but is it due to get some?).

Yam: reported to be bringing out a Super Tenere in 2009, with a 1200cc engine to compete with the Beemers. I guess this will replace the TDM.

F800GS: the dark horse is the new twin cyl F650GS.

I will ta.
1200cc too big same issue as bmw, caponord, strom 1000, etc Super tenere in my mind would have a TDM engine in!

BMW is the only middle man hear really unles you look at old heavy africa's and stuff.. grr... at least I'm closer to having to rule out singles now with pillion pulling power needed

Just another thought with regards to making a 650 single better suited to long trips, I put a smaller rear sprocket on my Pegaso which made a big difference in revs at cruising (about 75mph) hence lower fuel consumption and to be honest off-road I hardly noticed the loss of slower speed ooomph as the peg and most singles have so much compression any torque you can use them in second gear without and throttle (just powered on the over run without stalling).

Also, why are there no/few single 650's with six gears, this would solve the issue once and for all. I just find im always in the want for one more gear just to cruise with.

Trav

I picked up a second hand XT660 a few weeks ago, I kept going around in circles so I jumped in boots and all as the saying goes and XT is a wonderful bike, actually I have enjoyed riding it more than I thought I would. A bit of back ground may help qualify this, I recently sold my KTM 640 SM, I really wanted to like it as it was probably the ‘best’ of the road oriented supermotards but it was just too narrowly focused for me. It was a blast to ride hard on tight twisty roads but the rest of the time it wasn’t much fun and it sat in the garage not being used much. The XT is just the opposite I look for excuses to go out on it, just down the road or a whole days riding. It is remarkably smooth for a single, it will do 80 mph happily on the motorway, (personally I find motorways terminally boring and only use them as a last resort) I took the XT on a 4,000 km, (2,500 mile) 2 week trip around Scotland and it was perfect, I find it very comfortable, 6 – 8 hour riding days are no problems, even through it only has a 15 litre fuel tank at the 40 – 60 mph speeds we were riding at most of the time the fuel light came on around 130 miles, there is 5 litres left which means it would do just over 200 miles on a thankful.. One of the big attractions for my is the riding position which feels like a dirt bike so it really encourages off road exploring, the 17” wheels and road tires do limit the off road performance but as long as it was dry and I didn’t try and ride at “proper dirt bike” speeds I never had any problems. Obviously some 17” adventure tyres would help improve the capability but this highlights another point. Even through it has road tyres on it, it is still very capable off road, as long as you are realistic. I saw some old photos recently of 1940s and 1950s Harleys axle deep in snow, motorcyclists were tougher back than but the point is they weren’t concerned about have the prefect bike or the “right” tyres, they just got out there and went riding for the sheer enjoyment of it.
Before I got the XT I was concerned about the weight but it really isn’t a big deal, yes on the spec sheet it looks heavy and under powered but out there in the real world it is a much better bike than it would appear to be, somehow it brings out the essence of motorcycling, the simple pleasure of just going for a ride for the sake of it and enjoying the freedom that it brings. The XT is cheap, reliable, fun to ride and, for me any way, it brought back the simple pleasures of motorcycling, riding and exploring just because you can. This isn’t mean to be a “XT660 is the best bike in the world” rant, it hopefully will just help to inspire others that the bike doesn’t matter, it’s the getting out there and riding that puts the smile on our faces. Would I still like a twin? Sure, why not. But in the mean time I hope to wear out many sets of tyres enjoying the single cylinder Yamaha. How where are my keys, its warm and sunny so I’m going riding . . . . .

I totally agree with KiwiBruce on this. I am curious though, whether KiwiBruce would trade your XT660R for the new XT 660Z Tenere?

I also really enjoy reading this thread. I think mid-size adventure type bikes will be, if not already, the next battle ground for bike makers. Most of the challenges that the manufacturers face, I believe, have been raised in this thread.

In particular, weight is one factor I am struggling with because weight is related to so many other factors of the bike. That is why it's interesting you mention that your R drives lighter than what the specs say. On one hand, we want a lighter bike because it is better off-road. On the other hand, a light bike would likely be less stable than a heavier bike on highway. Also, a single would normally be lighter than a twin, but then it may suffer on power and smoothness that a twin normally offers. Moreover, a larger tank would add more weight even it serves the purpose of long adventure biking but would take away the handling aspect on offroad. So for the 'all-purpose adventure' type bikes, at what weight would be the happy medium? I am not necessarily looking for a magic answer, I am just interested in hearing you all what you think.

Beemers
 

Totally agree, it is a good thread.

Apart from the all-up weight factor, there is also the issue of how that weight is distributed in the overall design of the bike. The "old" F650GS single cyl BMW is often quoted as being heavy compared with some other singles. But, in my case, I find the bike handles lighter than its' gross weight suggests - much lighter in fact. I attribute this to the low centre of gravity (CG) caused by the design that puts the fuel tank down low.
Maybe the new 650 twin cyl feels as light?

The big boxer twins also appear to be lighter than they look: despite those big, sticking-out cylinders on each side. The low cyls results in a lower CG for the boxer twin than other engine configurations of similar sized capacity.

I'm starting to think you need one of each. The actual ride dictates which bike will be better suited. I ride two venues, North America and Central America although I'll soon be pushing south. When in North America I want the twin, the roads are great and I love the twisties. Rain, snow or sunshine, I ride. I carry my house and kitchen on the bike and I love wideness areas, logging roads in BC being my favorite, There's a lot of wideness in Norte America I want to see it all. Big open areas where you can burn through all the petrol you can afford as fast as you have the balls to ride. I love covering ground and a twin damn sure burns it up. But yet the right twin will get you back in the woods so you can set up a home and cook some dinner. And if you break, savvy dealers are well acquainted with complex bikes.

But when in Central America, I need a single and for more reasons than one. One reason nobody mentions much is ease of repair. You can't get a complicated double fixed in these countries unless it's in the top shop in the capital city (even then it's iffy). But suppose you break down in the boonies, those country boys may look at a double with amazement but they'll flat out tear a single down and rebuild it on the side of the road and that means a lot. Another factor is the traffic and traffic laws, there are none if you're riding a bike, there's only one rule....squeeze through if you'll fit...the narrower the bike the better. Also gas, it's expensive and it can be hard to come by, big tank, thrifty motor. Besides, Central America countries are small, no need to go over 110kph

Many of ya'll ride a different style than me in different venues than me. It's all good.

But I'm finally starting to realize...I need one of each ;-)

We all go for bike decision. How about a thread fuel consumption friendly bikes !
The problem with boxer twins are fuel consuption and weight issue.
Othervise HP2 should be in somewhere else IMHO.

For me range is more important then mileage, but of course to get god range your mileage can’t be too bad.

When I drive my boxer with singles I typically get 16,7 km/l, when I drive alone I typically get 15,5 km/l.
That gives me a range of at least 650 km, range is barely an issue.