hi matt,
my mate has severe and getting worse difficulties with his feet, he has had a variety of twist'n'goes from 125 piaggio X9, suzuki burgmann400 and his current (2nd) burgmann650 exec.
im a biker but i would have no regrets or 2nd thoughts about going on a tour with either of them, i think the split between 'bike' and 'scooter' is getting very blurred these days with automatic bikes and electronic 'gear' modes on T&Gs. i simply imagine the burgerking is a T&G equivelent of a honda deauville with pan euro equipment.
if you limit yourself to 125cc then there are hundreds to choose from, most would happily do 60mph forever and you can even get offroad tyres for them, so whats stopping you?

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dave

Sorry to hear about your hip Matt. I enjoyed following your blog for the Iran trip. A friend of mine just rode his 125 Vespa from the UK over the Alps to Italy and back.

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If you think you are too small to make a difference you have never spent the night with a mosquito.

My wife and I rode Cape Town to Nairobi on classic Vespa scooters. It was easy and fun. There are many scooter adventurists arround, just not in this forum. Giorgio Bettinelli set out on an RTW on a classic Vespa and his guitar - no tools, no parts, no experience. He rode more than 254.00o km and covered very corner on our planet. Two guys even finished in the 1980 Paris - Dakar on classic Vespas, and in 2012, me and two friends will participate in the Budapest to Bamako Rally on two classic scooters.

On a trip from Norway to Finland I met a fellow scooterist that had ridden a modern Honda Maxi Scooter from Japan, through Russia, and was on his way to the North Cape.

While a motorcycle require a bit of muscelling to navigat, telepathy will suffice on a scooter. They are a blast to ride, and easy to ride on 99% of all kms you will likely be riding with arthritis. I would however conscider not going for a classic like mine, but something newer and something with a bit more umph - like a 300cc.

A bigger engine will wrk with less strain and will have less problems with it. Also, you will enjoy the extra power going up hills, riding at altitude, and carrying all that weight.

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Thanks again for the input folks. It certainly seems as though the scooter is a capable form of transport outside the city. I'm still weighing up the power aspect. Part of me wants to be able to overtake stuff - another part of me relishes the challenge of underpowered riding and the idea that a slow bike forces you off the motorways and allows you to appreciate the surroundings. On the one hand, a 125 scoot would be a very diifferent experience to touring on the XT, but on the other it would not be so different from touring on my enfield, which has a top speed of about 65 and a cruise of 55 mph. (And a Yamaha scoot would probably involve much less maintenance!) Although the enfield does cope with luggage quite well. Not sure a sub 10 hp bike would cope as well.

I even have a plan formulating - I have just about enough leave (I have painstakingly calculated!) to take a 12 day holiday in the summer. No specific destination in mind - just get on the scooter and ride east for six days - see where I end up. I reckon I'd be content with Germany, happy with poland and pretty damn chuffed with getting to the baltics - Lithuania or even Latvia. Could be a lot of fun!

I reckon to travel super light - one set of clothes for riding - one and a bit sets for off. Tools. Books. Whisky. Open face helmet. And that's it. Reckon I could fit all that in a small top box and a drybag.

Matt

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

Couple of pointers:

A two stroke is easier for a novice to tinker with if you need to be self reliant in terms of repairs. However, they usually use far more fuel, which will impact your range. Also, they use quite a bit of two-stroke oil which is not readily available in some parts of the world, like much of Africa. You will find that you on some stretches will haul far more oil and fuel that you need, simply because you feel you cant rely on it being available down the road.

A royal Enfield is, as you probably know, not very reliable, with so many known weaknesses that you would have to bring half an Enfield with you if you need to travel fast and be self reliant in terms of spares and tools. It would however, be quite macho and cool.

A modern four stroke Honda might not be as easy to work on for a novice, then again they are very reliable.

As for power, I know of people who did all of the americas on 50CC Honda Ruckus - it can be done.

But, more power gives you many benefits which I would not readily trade for the prestige of riding the underdog of underdogs just for the prestige and self worth. Like a friend of mine told me, you can wipe your ass with grass, it sure will do the job. But why do it when you got silky toilet paper?

You need to ask what the most important aspects of this trip is, and which trade-offs you are willing to do. I bet the roads, the distances, and your destinations are important to, not just getting a notch in your belt.

I don't think a 125 cc modern twist and go scooter will give any prestige over any vehicle - they are dull, they are boring, and they are uninspiring (my opinion). The only reason I would consider one of these would be because they were practical and affordable for people who have few other options. If you want class, then classic rides of any sort - i.e Enfield, Ural, a Vespa, Honda Cub C90... You can get a Vespa PX 200 E which will take you along higwhays if you want (two stroke with plenty to go wrong).

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Hmm, interesting points Wheelie, thanks. I think it is definately worthwhile to think about your motivations. To start with the idea to ride a scoot came from the inability to ride my moto for longer periods and the purpose was to commute - not to travel.

As the idea took hold, however, my motivations have changed a little. I would like to travel on two wheels again - even if its only for less than a fortnight. I've not been able to do that for a few years now.

And why do I want to do it on a wee 125, rather than a bigger burgman or similar? Partly because those big scooters simply don't appeal, they just don't trigger that indefinable little spark of desire in my subconscious. But I think, even more importantly, I'm looking for a new experience. Zooming along in comfort on the autobahn with loads of luggage would, I think, simply feel too similar to touring on the XT. Too easy, done it before. Too fast, too tempting to jump on the motorway and open the throttle to get as many miles under the wheels as possible. I've ridden through europe too many times on a big 'powerful' bike. I'd like an experience that is a departure from those I've done before.

I understand the 'grass/silky bogroll' metaphor, but I'm not sure I agree. The logical conclusion of that is that the best bike for touring is something like a fast, powerful BMW1200GS and to use anything else is a compromise. Plenty of people will testify to the peculiar pleasures of travelling by slow transport. Just because I had a motorbike in the garage (even when I could ride it! ) didn't stop me cycle touring.

It still requires some thinking over - I still don't know for sure what the right choice for me is.

Cheers Wheelie, food for thought!

Matt

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*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

There are lots of scooter that well do the trick. ch250 and cn250 honda fusion come to mind. They go 128 k flat out But since you live in Europe you ve got a lot more scooters to chose from. Quite a few you ve got theKymco, Downtown 300i Piaggio, MP3 300 ,Honda, Silverwing 400 Honda, Forza X 250 Suzuki, Burgman 400Yamaha, YP400 Majesty to name a few without even going into vespa. ( watch for old 1960 -1980 asia imported vespa that are death traps , at least to your wallet) The BMW C1 Scooter is something you can get over there. The first real scooter with a roof and windshield wiper and was one of the safest scooter ever built. It has a built in roll cage . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_C1 You might just want to head over advriders and ask in the battlescooter section about this. Most scooters around 150cc will do flat out 60 mph and give you 80 plus mpg. I myself love the honda cn250 helix or fusion as its called there. It was in production for 25 years and the engine still being cloned today. It was the fist maxi scooter. It's also one of the scooters that often is found running the ironbutt run that is held once a year.
As to what is like touring a scooter? It's not that much different then doing it by a motorcycle. Add some sadle bags and rear trunk and your good to go. Here in canada the highest road speed is 70mph and my biket does 76 flat out on non hilly roads. Hills mean you ll be going any were from 45 to 60 mph up them depending on how high and long they are. You ll slow down and see more stuff touring on a scooter. Depending on what you buy you ll get between 60 to 125mpg . That can factor in on where you can go somewhat. it depends on what you gas tank holds. Todate scooter have done some of the same trips hard nose touring riders have done. People have taken vepsa , honda cubs etc from europe to india and back. Out side of Europe , usa , canada scooters are the main transport that people used get around.
Draw backs to scooter are rear tires wear out in less then 4000 K.

All you've gotta remember is that a ton of people CYCLE around the world, often for years on end. In fact I'm still toying between a bike and motorbike.

Stick to the back roads as they do and I reckon you'll be fine. Not only that you'll get to enjoy more.

I've got the motorcycle travel book Uneasy Rider by Mike Carter, great read. In that he encounters a bunch of lads who go off travelling around Europe on scooters.

Given the quality developments in scooters in recent years, I reckon you'll be fine.

In my experience of small scooters.

Peugeots are reliable and good all-rounders.

Piaggios (That includes Aprilias, Gileras and Vespas) tend to be good quality, but are known to go dodgy after only a few years use.

Hondas are normally the best for both speed, quality and reliability, but are expensive compared to others. Similar to Yamahas and Suzukis.

TGBs and SYMs are cheap, sluggish compared to their non-Taiwanese counterparts, but not bad on the reliability front.

Heard bad things about Chinese scooters, but never experienced one myself.

Try and grab a copy of Twist and Go magazine, that ought to help you make a decision.

Hi,

Many thanks for all the replies. I've just bought a 1967 BSA Bantam which has a nice low seat and a narrow tank and it seems I can ride it in (reasonable) comfort. Time will tell if touring is a practical possibility on it, so the scooter may still be an option!

Matt

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http://adventure-writing.blogspot.com

http://scotlandnepal.blogspot.com/

*Disclaimer* - I am not saying my bike is better than your bike. I am not saying my way is better than your way. I am not mocking your religion/politics/other belief system. When reading my post imagine me sitting behind a frothing pint of ale, smiling and offering you a bag of peanuts. This is the sentiment in which my post is made. Please accept it as such!

I hope you will enjoy scooter "adv-riding" despite your health problems.

I think 250cc is the lowest level for engine size for a touring scooter (for 2).

I've travelled about 40k km on my scooter - Yamaha Majesty 250 - usually fully packed & with 2 people.

I did some trips on my YP 250 to Ukraine (Crimea), Turkey (close to Syrian border), Balkans, Central Europe etc with out serious problems. Up to nearly 10000 km during some trips.

Only high in the mountains (above 2600m) I had problems with low power engine (23HP) and luck of manual gear-box.

My usual travel speeds are up 95-105km/h (with 2 people and their "travel stuff") with a daily range about 1000km.

I don't think scooters are good for Himalayas Highway or the "Road of Bones", but for most european, northern arfica & asia countries scooters are OK for travel.

You just have to remember to take a 2nd v-belt with you!

Scooter is just another motorbike with a huge - I mean HUGE - packing capabilities (200-300L of stuff on a scooter - no problem )