Not that I would buy one. Is anyone doing RTW on a F800GS???
 

Was wondering if anyone is using the F800GS to go RTW?? If so how is it taking this type of trip? I am curious to see how this bike would stand up to the riggors of such a trip.

I think a few people have done some pretty extended trips on these - about 40,000 km I believe, with very few problems - the bikes held up well; have a look at UKGSer.com and Adventure Rider sites for more details.

Once the initial teething problems have been sorted they seem like very good bikes.

S

Thanks for that. I see one going through Russia at the moment around Volgagrad on the ADV forums.

I've seen a couple reports of F800GS's

If you buy the 800 you can sell it when you return. It’s nice to have some money when you come back from an extended trip.

A magazine had searched for the cheapest bike you can own, funny enough the result was the 1200GS. Low maintenance-cost, cheap parts, cheap insurance and good reseller-value made it win.

I met a Czech guy near Nouadhibou who has put 42000k on his 4 month old 800, two up with his Mrs.

He had some fairly serious problems with his starter though, it was bump start only at the time I met him. Other than that, he said it had been flawless.

Birdy

Distance?
 

Was that 4,200_Km? or 42,000km

Sorry, I'm a lazy arse. It was 42,000 km. Can't remember the guy's name, but he was impressed with the bike, after spending several years on a TransAlp.

Birdy

Birdy where are you at now. ? jake.

His handle on the F650/800GS section of UKGSer is Jarax.

Tim

Check out the Wilddog Biker forum of South Africa. There's a guy called BlueBull2007, who is riding around South America lately on a 800GS. One of his trip reports is here:
Peruvian Andes (Updated again)

There are some more of his travelogues in that section. His missis is riding the 2-cyl F650.
Awesome pics as well :D

.... what would it sell for?
I was born at night .... but not last night! :thumbup1:

I gotta agree with Patrick on this one; BMW's have a pretty bad rap on reliability - even the new F800GS has had a lot of problems needing computer fault finding diagnosis. I looked at buying one pretty carefully but for the cash I could have two KLR650's or 1.5 Wee Stroms and both could be self serviced i.e. I would not be held to ransom by BMW's incessant ECU updates. Seems to me, after extensively researching the topic, that unless one is going to spend a lot of time on dirt roads/fire trails etc, the Wee Strom is pretty hard to beat, all things considered (even down to little things like tubeless tyres - easier to repair), tank size, running costs. I suspect the review in question might have been sponsored by BMW? Or am I just too cynical....

Sean

ps
 

A post-RTW bike is generally going to be worth the square root of **** all to anyone who knows anything about buying used bikes - I certainly wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.

Here's my unsolicited two bits.

The 800GS will become the defacto bike of choice for RTW and long distance riding.

There's a lot of reasons behind this but every year new people get interested in the idea of a big trip and for many, a primary form of exposure is Ewan and Charlie on TV and also the BMW marketing juggernaut, historical and current. As a result, ask the average guy at a bike show what bike to buy for "adventure" touring and most will answer BMW.

Many have been buying the 1200GS because it's natural to think that more is better and usually you don't find out that most of the riding doesn't require that size/power etc. Most of these people will wisely turn to the 800 as it is still in their comfort zone of brand recognition. As the ride reports grow, it will be what most people think of first, and for good reason.

The bike is good at almost everything, but not great at any one thing. Most international touring requires just this, a bike that can handle diverse road conditions and terrain. The image that we have of the trip and the reality are usually two different things, flexibility is key as no matter where you think you will go and what you think the riding conditions will be like, they will usually be different.

I rode one for about 35,000 km from TDF to Prudoe last year. The best thing I liked about it was that it handled very well on the tarmac and the gravel roads, and off road. For parts of the trip like in Patagonia or B.C. where the road can occasionally transition from good to bad to worse and back again, in a fairly short distance, this is where it shines. It'a actually a bit dangerous as it's easy to outride the conditions as it's not giving you the strong feedback signals that it can't handle the terrain that a different bike might when transitioning. A few times I found myself cranking along too fast for the variable conditions and had to slow down before you round the inevitable corner and the soft, deep gravel pitches you into the bush.

There are inevitable tradeoffs, in stock form it's not as comfortable for endless highway stretches as the more 'street' orientated bikes also in the loosely defined category of dual sports. I would put the DL1000 in this category, which I rode a similar distance through Europe and Africa. Very fine bike, excellent value and probably meets the needs of most riders. Not as good off road obviously, the 19" front means that you spend a bit of time occasionally rebending your skid plate, but it goes pretty much everywhere. (Note: Prices overseas though are higher than in the US for the DL).

In comparison to other bikes in the 'dirt' orientated side of the dual sport category, the 800 may not provide the high-high end performance levels of say a KTM, but close enough for all but the most discerning rider. So far it seems less finicky to maintain than the KTM, which for us lazy people is something to be aware of.

And comparing it to the thumpers is not totally fair because it costs more so should naturally be better in a few different ways, but the one discerning difference for me is that having two cylinders makes your days more enjoyable and much easier to ride longer days if you so desire. I rode a KLR in Russia/Mongolia and loved the value and utility of it, great bike for many things, but the vibrations can bother some more than others, more so if you like to ride longer days. Many however, don't notice it at all.

At the end of the day though, all bikes are perfectly fine and the choice you make doesn't really matter that much for a few seldom mentioned reasons:

a. The image in your mind of the hard core adventure that your trip will be is usually not the same as it is in reality. Many reasons for this, but you are getting a lot of adventure traveling in foreign places and many miles are filled with varying bits of adventure, like trying not to get run over by the crazed mini bus drivers or getting food poisoning. Your need to go off and push you and your bike to it's limits on way-out there trails fades pretty quick.

b. Your bike is loaded with a bunch of stuff that any sane person would take on a trip when you are far away from anything familiar. The weight of your luggage and panniers is pretty significant and any performance advantages of specific bike models are severly curtailed and they all end up handling pretty similar, or at least in a close perfomance band.

c. You have opposable thumbs, some semblance of intelligence, and are adaptable. If your bike is uncomfortable on the highways, you will adapt and ride shorter days. If it doesn't handle well in the gravel, you will adapt and ride slower. You'll be surprised that whatever bike you have, almost everyone rides the same route and ends up at the same place in a similar amount of time.

There are so many great makes and models out there now that the bikes you see on the road will be incredibly varied now and into the future. The days of only seeing only BMWs out there are gone, but in the future the most commonly occuring bike on the far away road, is going to be this one, and for good reason.

If someone asked me what bike to recommend for long distance touring on variable condition roads, for riding in developing countries, or if they didn’t actually have a clear idea where they were going and wanted the flexibility to do almost anything, I would recommend this bike. As people rack up more overseas miles and their needs and interests evolve, people can migrate to cruisers or classics or dirt bikes or side cars. Or stick with the same bike.

Hope that helps. :)

I have seen that some X Challenges are snapping the subframe clean in two when loaded up on the rear. Then again the subfarme is all alloy.

The F800ST had computer problems too when it first came out.

Last thing you would want when going up through say the Andres is the computer to pack up and go home on the F800GS. :(

Older bikes might be easier to fix but they break down more often. My 1200GSA had 45,000 miles on it before a problem.

Unfortunately the 2008 deliveries of the F650/800GS twin haven't proved as reliable as they should. And there are some design issues with the bike, some of which can be fixed (stupid side stand) and others that can't.

The F800GS and the F650GS twins have the potential to be great bikes. Just need some tweaking.

But you'll still get a lot of guys buying bikes for the pose factor even though they go nowhere near a forest trail, so the 1200GS/GSA has some life left yet.

Tim

[QUOTE=MountainMan;229276]The 800GS will become the defacto bike of choice for RTW and long distance riding.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::smartass::smartass: :smartass:

[QUOTE=Tim
Unfortunately the 2008 deliveries of the F650/800GS twin haven't proved as reliable as they should. And there are some design issues with the bike, some of which can be fixed (stupid side stand) and others that can't.

There was a guided tour Alaska-Ushuaia run by a Finnish tour operator last fall. Almost 30.000kms total in just over 2 months. The customers had their own bikes, a total of 11 including the group leader: 5 Hondas (CBF1000 (2-up!), 700 Deauville, 650/700 Transalp), and 6 BMW´s (650GS twin, 800GS, and one 1150GS).

Funny, but nearly all small glitches experienced on the road (except having flat tyres, and running out of fuel, which happened to everyone several times) seemed to hit the German bikes. Oil oozing from cylinder head cover gaskets, coolant spewing out from hoses, that wouldnt hold, onboard computers that went berserk, and ABS-brakes that varied way too much from one braking to another. A chain on one of the 800´s also snapped while riding, may have been misadjusted, though.

Luckily, those were all kind-of minor worries (except the chain could have smashed something, but didnt)... but the guy with the big GS had his subframe snap into two, plus a broken fuel pump, which needed to be ordered by DHL, and meant transporting the bike on a truck for +1000 kms. It very nearly stopped his trip, but luckily they finally managed to fix it in time.

I think they were quite optimistic about the new 650/800 GS´s, because it turned out that the dealers had no spare parts for them in stock yet, not even in the US. This should get better, once the imports get underway (or maybe already have)...

They all agreed, that the driveability and suspension of the BMW´s was better than the Hondas, but that those first model issues on the new GS´s need to be fixed. For them, especially as they were on a very tight schedule with their trip, having to spend time at the workshop wasnt good.

Personally, I could consider that 800, or even 650 twin, if and when I know that they have those issues no more.

Some of the issues are down to it being a new model. There have been problems with the top radiator hose blowing off (it's taken BMW ten months to announce a fix), crappy chains, faulty fuel sensor, etc. My bike has been recovered on a truck twice, and would have been three times if I hadn't sorted a side stand switch problem myself.

These are things that 'early adopters' maybe should expect, but it would have been soooo much better had BMW not had them.

Longer term issues that could be fixed
- poor design of the side stand (the bike leans over far too much and when loaded can topple),
- centre stand (difficult to deploy),
- side stand foot is minute (falls over in soft ground),
- far too high gearing in 1st and 2nd (why have a close ratio box when there 6 ratios)
- lack of trail readyiness (brake and gear levers don't swivel)
- exhaust sticks out unnecessarily far and cuts into luggage space

Then there's things that can't be easily fixed, such as the underseat tank making the bike wide at the luggage point. This effectively loses you 14 litres of storage space compared to the 1200GS.

Nevertheless it's a fine bike in many other ways and though I have a 1200GSA in the garage, the F650GS is the one I ride most.

Tim

Honestly I don’t care much about the price, as long as it is within certain limits.
But I know a lot of people focus a lot on the price of a new bike, so I have made an example of how much various bikes will cost in Norway if you plan to keep it for 4 years.

The secondhand value in these examples is for 2005 models with a mileage close to 25kkm. The DL650 is a 2006 modell.
I don’t have the price for insurance for the DL1000 so I’ve used the same price as for the DL650.
The mileage is a bit low, but it was all I can find (no high mileage Suzukis). My impression is that this is in Suzukis favour.
As an example a 2003 DL1000 with 33500 kms has reduced it’s value with 47% and a 2004 1200GS with 74000 kms (more then twice the distance) has reduced it’s value with 32%.

Sadly it’s not possible to get the same number for the F800GS, time will show…

This will not prove anything, but it shows that the price of a new bike is just a small part of the equation. Prices for insurance and the cost of bikes vary in different countries.



Suzuki DL650
Price: 113.900NOK/12798€
Secondhand value: 85.000NOK/9951€ FINN MC - Søk etter motorsykler og mopeder.
Insurance (4 years): 26.312NOK/2956€
Total: 55.212NOK/6204

Suzuki DL1000
Price: 149.900 NOK/16843€
Secondhand value: 112.900 NOK/12685€ FINN MC - Søk etter motorsykler og mopeder.
Insurance: 26.312NOK/2956€
Total: 63.312NOK/7114€

BMW 1200GS
Price: 204.800NOK/23011€
Secondhand value: 156.000 NOK/17528 FINN MC - Søk etter motorsykler og mopeder.
Insurance: 12.332NOK/1386
Total: 61.132NOK/6869€


The 1200GS costs less then 10% more then the 650DL and the DL1000 is more expensive then the 1200GS.
The 650 is also a year newer then DL1100/1200GS so the real differences are even smaller.
I tried to find the same costs for a XT but it was not fair because the XT has changed dramatically in the same years. The DR is not sold here.

I’ll repeat that this material will not be valid in all countries and there are too few bikes to make a good statistic, but I mean it shows that the price of the bike doesn’t tell much. It will be interesting to see how the F800GS fits into this. My guess is that it will not make it as good as the 1200GS but it’s probably a good bike.


When it comes to reliability it’s a bit early to say. A friend of mine has had his bike for 10 months and so far tires, chain, and sprockets is the only things he has changed beside normal services – which he does himself. The bike runs great even in the winter
-24.5°c = -11F
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/kald800.jpg

In the end fun is more important:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/mk.jpg


I’ve tried both the 650DL, F800GS and 1200GS both on road and gravel and none of them are my kind of bike.

Let me get this straight, once you purchase this bike, you've already invested $18k(taxes, panniers, Tourafarkle, etc.) AND you've now committed to basically bringing the bike home-add in another $4k for shipping. You're at $22k BEFORE you even hit the start button or the calculator to calculate your trip costs.

Number two…why are we even debating reliability when you've already spent $22k?? This bike is new…you better be able to put 50k miles/kms without a major mishap…or this is crap!!

The bike better be able to RTW if you're paying that much!!!

But that's the point; one could buy a bike that does the same job for less than half the money - I can get a KLR 650, which is self serviceable, on the road, rtw ready, for $7500 USD. In fact, that's about 1/3, so you could have the bike and do the trip pretty much for what the F800GS would cost. 'Nuff said IMHO. Although I would actually like an F800GS - they look ace. I did, in fact, think of buying one with the diagnostic tool and taking a laptop with me but in the end thought that this was ridiculous and then I did the sums.....

Sean

The mag article that says the R1200GS is the cheapest to own must stick to bikes under three years old or something. An MZ/C90/CG125 bought off e-bay for £300, insured for £50 and if required replaced every 6 months is going to work out cheaper any BMW simply because all the numbers are smaller by a factor of at least 10. OK you can double the cost of a rat if you have to buy a chain, but it's still whole decimal places out.

How come no one is comparing the Tenere BTW? Has fewer of the weird BMW/Electronic bits, costs about 75% of the price and does pretty much everything you could ask for IMHO.

There is also the ****ed/desperate salesman factor. Best value holding bike I ever had was a 2003 Yam XT600E. 15000 miles and 11 months old and it depreciated by £250 because the Triumph salesman had been on the champagne all day and thought I'd be back to buy a Rocket 3 in a few months :innocent:

Andy

Suzuki DL650
Price: 113.900NOK/12798€
Insurance (4 years): 26.312NOK/2956€

BMW 1200GS
Price: 204.800NOK/23011€
Insurance: 12.332NOK/1386

You sure these numbers are correct?? Insuring a DL650 should definitely be cheaper than a 1200GS in most countries, if not for anything else, then because it would cost about half the price of the big GS to replace it, if it´s stolen, or totaled.

Yes, the numbers are correct; they are both collected at the same time and have the same limitations (same company, man 30 years old, living in Oslo, 70% bonus). The prices are from an article where they tested insurance-companies.
The prices are re-calculated every year and the idea is that every type of bike should pay for itself.

I’m sure the test had loads of limitations :-)
But my point is that what you pay for the bike is just a small part of the equation.

When I left for a big trip (50 kkm double Trans Africa, loads of crashes) I had my bike taxed before and after the journey. The difference was 20%, for some other bikes it could have been 50% - or worse.


As I said in my post there are no numbers for the XT (or Tenere) because it’s a new model, it’s hard to know the secondhand value. Same goes for F800GS.
I like the Tenere, and the old XTs kept their price well.

If you remove the insurance-cost (who needs insurance for RTW anyway) the DL1000 will be a bit cheaper then the 1200GS.

But if you get 0,65% discount on the 1200GS the GS is cheaper, so it’s pretty tight! You'll ned 1,1% discount to beat the DL650.

LOL, Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, sigh, that is complete nonsense. It seems like long ago already but I rode RTW in ’07 and ’08 in different segments on a KLR650, a DL1000 and a GS800, so as a fan of whatever bike is the best one to ride for the ride regardless of make or model and having seen what people are actually riding out there, I respectfully and completely disagree with that comment.

If anyone is out of touch, it may be you I’m afraid. You should really get out there Patrick, it’s a big world extending beyond the borders of the US and Mexico and it changes fast. I can appreciate you are trying to glean information from websites and the such and maybe do the best you can with limited information, but my comments are based on recent experience and I don’t carry that intense brand allegiance or bias that seems to cloud your thoughts whenever the word BMW is mentioned. In the end, they are all just bikes, a means of transport for the adventure.

I won't drone on to point out the facts and the many areas where I completely disagree with your comments, the to and fro would detract from this thread, but feel free to pm me and we can discuss offline.

Suffice it to say, there are many great bikes to take you around the world or cross continents. Too many too discuss at length. They all have their limitations and their compromises.

It's not rocket science or a great visionary comment, the 800GS fits right into the middle ground of not too small, not too big, good on road, good off road, good performance, dual cylinder, and in most countries priced in the high middle of potential RTW bikes. (see below). The reason that successful businesses and political parties migrate to the middle of the bell curve, it's where most of the people are.

If you have done a big ride before and you know that you want to ride as much offroad as possible, you may want to look at something like the KTM 690 or 990. If you know that you want to ride the highway as much as possible, look at something like the street orientated dual sports such as the DL650 or the 650GS. If you want to ride highway and are two up, look at something like the DL1000 or the 1200GS. If like everyone else, you want a mix of everything, or don't know exactly how things will shake out, the 800GS is a no brainer selection.

And who knows whether the ultimate percentage of RTW bikes out there will be X% or 20% comprised of 800s & 650s. There are many bikes these days which are good and there are always more coming. The remainder of the market will be spread between many different old and new models. But this bike was actually designed and marketed with our market in mind and over time, it will become the most commonly occuring bike and the one be first on many peoples minds when they debate what to get. Doesn't mean eveyone will buy it or even a majority, but it will be more than any one other single model. For now, it's as close as it gets.

If anyone has any questions about bike selection, feel free to email or pm me, happy to help. :)

Canadian bike prices (MSRP):

Kawasaki KLR 650: $7,000
Suzuki DL650: $9,000
BMW650GS: $9,500
Suzuki DL1000: $12,000
BMW800GS: $12,250
KTM 990A: $17,000
BMW 1200GS: $17,000

Hey Tim,

Bummer to hear about the issues with your bike. There were a few minor things on mine, didn't seem to be too much problem but I was probably used to fixing little things at that point in my trip. I had a small weld tacked to the side stand in Columbia. Carried a block of wood for the small base plate but wished I had the $0.10 stand pad that a HU member bought for me in Damascus. The rear pipe is indeed hilariously large. Had the leak from the head cover gasket, apparently very common even on last years 800, fixed but not many spare gaskets on this continent last year is that is any indication. Didn't you throw a set of TKCs on it initially?

Hey Edde,

How's things?

Come now, you're in finance, you now that the transport is a sunk cost and a cost relevant to almost all bikes, except the absolute cheapest that have no carnet and can be abandoned if they blow up. Not everyone has the wisdom to ride a K :) Cheers.

Hey Doc,

Not sure of your numbers, but here in Canada it would be closer to 7/12, maybe half the cost with taxes if looking at new. (assuming you would add similar farkles on both)

They are not the same bike though. Single cylinder thumpers should be compared against other thumpers to be fair. More comparable to a DR or the 690 would be an interesting ride.

A lot depends on where and how long you ride each day, but a big benefit of twins is the reduced vibration and fatigue. Day after day, some people can really notice it, especially if you ride long days. One gets used to it as you know, where it really becomes apparent is if you switch bikes but keep a similar schedule or if one person is on a twin and the other one isn't. It's subtle but after a while one party will want to stop more frequently and for longer.

You can pick a percentage improvement, say 5%, but for me I immediately noticed that I was less fatigued when I switched bikes. Some vague arguement could be made about safety, but a tangible issue was less fatigue makes one more aware and allowed for more enjoyment from the ride. Same thing can be accomplished by going slow and stopping a lot though, so may not be as important to many.

You want to look at facts, look at this.

Why don't you address Docsherlock's points directly as presented? Suddenly you're comparing singles and twins??:taz: .... his point was COST wasn't it? Here is what he wrote:
See any questions in there asking you to compare singles and twins? Point is, the KLR kicks BMW ASS in any financed based comparison you want to come up with. Maybe you work with Ben Bernanky? :rofl:

And all your comments on fatigue could be reversed if the we go off road.
Now the Twin guys will be the ones getting tired and dropping back while the single guys are having fun. :Beach:

Patrick,
Not all riders who do trips post their trips on ADVRider or the HUBB, hell quite a few don't bother. In my year travelling, more than half the other riders I met on my ride weren't on ADV or the HUBB...

Things are different offline...and sometimes we forget that...I think that's all MM is alluding to...I can't wait for the next opp!

MountainMan and I oddly enough met in UB...and BTW, his slander about me being a Finance guy is not fair, how do you think the Dutch got their bikes shipped for free?!?!
And why isn't the K75 mentioned as a RTW option?
JK...hope all is well in Vanc.

[QUOTE=MotoEdde
Not all riders who do trips post their trips on ADVRider or the HUBB, hell quite a few don't bother.

Couldn't agree more. Did it on an old banger that I though looked great untill I put it next to a new one. I went for the single 650 Dakar and loved it largely because I knew how to fix and prepare it (thanks to the chain gang) and because it's super hot from all angles. Can't care that I could have bought 2 DR's because they don't give me that lovin' feeling. It's a hobby, and hobbies are there to take your money and keep you busy. Smokers and piss heads spend heaps on that, why is it considered silly when bikers do?

Gotta be with the 1200 guys on the masses with bikes argument though sadly. (Not surprised it blew over.) We just came back 3 weeks ago, and I have to say that half of the bikes I've seen were 1200's often by people riding in BMW gear as well, which is a dead giveaway which type of rider it is to me. So no doubt the idea for it came from TV. Don't think Terra Circa would give that group the same inspiration as the two lover boys. (Saying that Austin gave me my overall travel inspiration, so not sure how I ended up on a BMW). Saw a lot of 800GS's too but I'm pretty sure they were all local (no or next to no luggage). 1 DL1000, 1 640, 1 XT600, 1 DR, 2 single 650GS's, 1 new KLR (short ride), quite a few Brazilian XT660's (must be on sale there) and some old muts that I couldn't recognise quickly enough.

Saw a lot less bikes thoughout our Asia trip (which to me signals that peoply didn't know about intercontinental bike travel yet either as it was just after the LWR DVD release) and only 1 1200. 1 old Tenere, 3 640 (all in the same group though) and I can't remember any others sorry (if there were any). Oh, there was the group of transalps that we shipped with.
All we heard was whether or not we've seen LWR and whether or not that inspired us. We didn't get that question as much anymore, but saw a lot more adventure motorbikes. Mostly 1200's. Think the 800 will become more common as well, once they iron out the problems. Maybe not in Europe though, but more so in the 'dirty' continents.

I was amazed, how many people (mostly non-riders, though) seem to have it somehow written in stone, that BMW should be the only right choice for a long trip. Not saying it would necessarily be a bad choice, not at all, and there´s no doubt they have many great touring bikes in their lineup. But these days there are also plenty of highly capable others to choose from, often available for less money, too.

I've owned BMW bikes and had BMW cars. Neither match the expectations the general publuc seem to put on them based on products from thirty years ago. Then again, I know plenty of people on both two and four wheels who have problems but still can't pull away from the brand image. BMW marketing must love it.

I must say, I pick a bike with my head not my heart. I think it's the difference between people who travel by bike and those who ride them. I have no interest in plastic missiles travelling in circles either which I find is another pointer to how you see your wheels.

Andy

Yes, I've done the last 120,000 miles on TKCs and have now done 12,000 miles on the F650GS. My criticisms perhaps came over a bit harsh. I have a R1200GSA and was looking for a second bike that could handle all-day motorway rising at 80+mph and still be nimble offroad.

The F650/800GS is uniquely positioned to do both of these well. The obvious alternatives that are widely available in Europe can't do both, though the R1200GS (non adventure) comes close.

It's extremely rare in the UK to see the Kawasaki and Suzuki models mentioned above, so I wouldn't be rushing off to buy one of those.

The older Transalp looks OKish, but the new one is heavier than the R1200GS.

The new Tenere can't handle the long distance motorway cruising and the seat is a bit high for me. A small capacity twin dropped into a slightly lower version of the Tenere would be exciting, though.

The other alternative was the BMW G650 Xchallenge and Xcountry. I was impressed with the road performance of the Xchallenge. Both of these suffer from abysmally poor fuel range but there is now a reasonably-priced add-on rear fuel tank.

Later this year BMW is bringing out a touring version of the G650 Xcountry.

Tim

I think that BMW have worked a wonderful bit of marketing and like Harley Davidsons the whole ethos of a particular style (Lifestyle) has been etched into the subconscious of buyers. Like many aspects of life people are affected by advertising, branding etc etc. It is why the top companies spend so much on advertising. The GS brand has been very carefully sold over many years as the bike for adventure and many will and have bought into the dream - just look at the sales figures. Is it the best Bike not at all - thats a very personal thing and needs to meet the needs of lots of other factors. But remember the markets will be flooded with the GS800 as it was with the 1150 and 1200 there are still more and more TV celebrities doing the Adventure thing one way or another so this market will keep growing for some time. BMW above everyone else in the motorcycle market has the unique position to influence a broad buyer market -there bike showrooms are usually mixed in to their car showrooms -reaching an affluent circle of people who may often know little or nothing about bikes but buy into the Badge or dream after all they probably run a bmw car as well..
I owned several BMWs back in the 70/80s and travelled a lot on a R65 none of those BMWs were wonderfully reliable by any measure, I also travelled across America back then that was on a old battered suzuki 500 twin it only ever broke down in very heavy downpours (Electrics were crap). I have owned ridden and travelled on many makes and types of bike but after all those years have returned to the BMW (old gs) not because I think they are super reliable they have lots of foibles but are reasonably easy to live with, service ,repair, very comfortable (two up) etc. Its fairly heavy big and impractible for heavy dirt road use but what is not loaded up for a two up trip - but it suits my needs very well as for the new GS I think they missed a chance to keep it much more simple or even market a simplified model - simple electrics no ABS etc etc However they have hit on a market (CC) area which is currently missed out by most the other manufactures. Just dont forget BMW are only bothered about badging and sales. Not what is really needed for an overlanding bike that market is far two small for a big manufacturer.

Funny how attached people get to their own brands :-)

The problem is ... not just as Jake says, that BMW isnt really interested in building a proper overlanding bike, its that NO-ONE is really interested in building a proper overlanding bike.

I used to think KTM's 640 Adventure was about the closest someone has come, but then if they were really serious about it, they would have put in a engine capable of going round the world, and not something that vibrates like a bi-atch, has to be serviced weekly and rebuilt every 6 months.

At the end of the day, if you want an overlanding bike, you cant buy one off the shelf. One way or another you have to customise it, cause NO-ONE is interested in building a bike for that tiny market.

Yes it can. I did long distannce motorway cruising with it last summer (well - 1400 km's anyway), fully laden with daughter and bags. Although I agree that the Ten wasn't designed with this as its primary task.

What I had in mind was not wanting to be the slowcoach in the party when riding with mates. Yes, most bikes, including the older single-cylinder 650cc version of the F650GS can cruise at motorway speeds but they aren't comfortable/safe/vibe-free at much over 75mph.

By comparison at 85mph the 800cc F650GS twin is at 5000 revs with plenty more in reserve.

But it's only in Western Europe and North America that we need these motorway speeds, outside of these areas 50-60 mph is the normal maximum and the new Tenere with its massive fuel tank looks absolutely ideal for a RTW bike (if I had it lowered a bit).

BTW I really enjoyed your write-up on Norway and it's got me thinking. Maybe 2010.

Tim

Motorcycle hell: 12 RxxxxGS's on the motorway, cruising at three figure speeds, taking half an hour plus at every fuel stop. Once I figured this out I just kept the F650 (carbed) at a steady speed and over took them every 45 minutes until I was so far ahead I had to wait three hours for them at Algeciras.

I used to run my XT600E at a nice steady 80 on the motorway and it survived. Horses for courses though, been there, done that, won't wear the T-shirt .

Andy

No need to be disparaging. And 85 isn't three figures.

LOL, oh Patrick, some things never change with you do they?J

To be specific, when you post comments that disregard peoples opinions by telling someone that “they are out of touch” when they have barely returned, it’s a bit rich to be thin skinned and defensive when they retort the same in return.

And please, don’t bludgeon us with the cut and paste pointless arguments, that does nothing more than give most of us a headache and dilutes what is otherwise an interesting thread.


Ride Reports & On Road Experiences

In short, ah Patrick, many people read ride reports but no one in their right mind would argue that the best experience isn’t actual hands on experience. Prior to the trip, most riders pour over old reports surf HU endlessly to try to gain some clarity on the countries they are visiting and the bikes and gear they will be using. Once on the road, they read less but they still try to go back and refresh their info on the upcoming country, and continue to visit HU whenever they can. Many times they use them to follow people they have met on the way.

And interestingly enough, many, many people keep right on reading reports and visiting HU and other sites when they return, probably the same reports and sites that everyone else is reading. Why? It keeps them connected to great memories, allows to relive it a bit, get updates on places that they have been and seen and give back to the community when it comes to hopefully helping others if they encounter similar problems. Plus it’s always a great way to waste time at work.

Time limits how much one can read, but what is the most interesting is when you can compare the ride reports to actual riding experience. From comparing and contrasting these two, you get a better feel for who is riding and who is actually writing. These two things are very different. Not everyone posts, in fact it is a small minority. If a person is using this as their main source of info of what is happening on the road, they are going to get a very narrow and select view of the world. Supplementing riding experience with ride reports helps make the picture more complete, but the primary source is getting out there and doing it.

And uh, yeah, you do run into a lot of people on the road for many routes. Places like eastern Russia toward Mongolia there is basically a main route (it’s called the Trans Siberian) and most people are on it or stopping at one of a few spots in Vlad or UB. With stops and meeting people on the way that have met other riders ahead or behind, you are roughly one degree of separation from most riders in a fairly broad time frame in the same area. Same goes for east coast of Africa. With the once a week ferry in Aswan, you pretty much meet the guys on your boat, the weeks previous boat you catch up in Khartoum, and the next weeks boaters as you are preparing to leave. After a couple of countries, you have met or again are one degree of separation from people ridng that route within a rough time frame encompassing a decent portion of that riding high season.

Demographics

As to the mystery demographic of young riders, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a bunch of them out there. As they may not post reports much or participate in sites such as this one, a good source would be to ask someone like Albert who meets a bunch of them when they come through. Another source would be StrikingViking as he gets to see a bunch of them as he has a very strong following in that demographic and on ADV in general. This would give us a decent snapshot of guys crossing into Mexico and who make it to South America. A simple data point would be to find out the numbers of people who have shipped their bike over the Darien over the last five years. Numbers probably have grown. ADV has been a great resource for people to post their trip experiences and it motivates more and more mainly US riders to take the plunge as well.

Key point though, it would also be critical to find out what is happening in Africa, Europe, Asia, and Australia. This is going to be much harder. It’s a big world, and it is easy to focus on one area like the US and use it to extrapolate, but every market is going to be very different.

Now the bigger questions, is this an expanding demographic or ar we just becoming more aware of this group through additional exposure here and on ADV? No one knows, any projection is based on anecdotal evidence at best. It was hard to track before, it’s hard to track now. Is the percentage of riders falling into this category compared to the overall cross continental and RTW riders greater, less, or the same? Extremely difficult to say. The overall traveller market was growing for many reasons, whether this subset is growing faster or slower in the uncertain future is not something anyone can say for certain.

And to close the loop, if it is growing faster or even staying the same, would these riders consider the 800GS? Maybe not new, but they are looking at a certain price point and can be a little bit flexible. They are not driven entirely by cost though, otherwise everyone would choose the sometimes not as sexy but dirt cheap options out there. Many examples out there but I’m sure Edde wonders why more people don’t choose the K75 the same way that Werner wonders why more people don’t choose the Dominator.

For almost everyone, there is an emotional component to owning a bike and that’s why people pay some premium to be able to do their trip in their own way, hence even the KLR can be considered an upgrade over the bare minimum and people are paying for it. In the future, they will also be able to choose from all the new models as they age and become used. That includes the Tenere and the 800. Will they spend the cash to get to a new model? Likely not. Will they reconsider when there are used options available? As every year goes by and the price comes down as they age, they will more and more. This years new bike model may become a used classic in just a few years.

But meanwhile, the other large markets of value buyers (who seek the best combination of price and performance) the the pure performance buyers (who seek simply the best performing bike) will evaluate the 800GS as one of their top two or three options. Most will buy something else (so many good options out there), but many will buy the 800/650 and this will be enough to become the most common single make/model. Again, this isn’t any grand pronouncement, it’s a pretty common view, especially when you consider how broadly the exact same model is being marketed in Europe, South Africa, North America, South America, and Australia for a pretty focussed target market.

KTM

Last point, but very critical for anyone contemplating a cross continent or RTW ride. A very clear example of how actual riders and bikes are not necessarily all reflected in what some consider our mainstream traveling websites, KTM is a prime example.

When I was in Africa the most commonly occuring bike make going down the continent was KTM. There’s probably a lot of reasons out there for this, race history, manufactured in Europe, etc. but it is pretty common for it’s riders to refer to the bike as the Africa bike. They are a pretty zealous bunch, not put off by the reputation for the bike to be maintenance intensive and would defend their choice extremely rigorously to say the least. They have a strong point as well, as the bikes have seen many a km of usage. More than a few have wandered down to South America or across to Russia as well.

We may not hear much about it over here, but there’s a very solid base of experience to comment from. They came from all over including Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Turkey, South Africa, England, Denmark, etc. I’ve often wondered why there aren’t more of them posting or even here lurking on this site to talk about their experiences. Could be there are more reports out there in a different language such as German or Dutch, could be that demographic doesn’t report as much, or could be that this site is most strongly followed in the UK and that’s not as big of a KTM country as other places in Europe. Maybe it is quite niche and the numbers get lost in the relative overall shuffle, don’t know.

Suffice it to say, they are out there, their riders swear by them, and if the what some would consider to be a premium cost is not a major concern for you, this make should be on any short list in particular if it suits your style of riding whether it be Africa or elsewhere. Again, this is not a world shattering view, anyone looking at it objectively will say the same thing.

Peace out.

Mate, you are trolling. This is a post between two other members, not you, very bad form.

Hey Future,

'Tis indeed. I call it the x factor. Rationale evaluation provides information on which bike will meet your needs, add the x to find out what bike a person actually buys. For some, it is near zero, for others, it outweighs the original result:)

Hey Tim,

Yes, I remember having seen a picture of the TKCs when you first put them on. I can imagine the 650GS getting a long hard look from people contemplating dual sports. The value is hard to beat. The lower clearance shouldn't be an issue for most except in really rough spots. It may be hard to sway the odd person away from the more aggresive looks of the 800 though.

The G650X sounds like it might be interesting, but not my cup of tea.

Then get to the point and don't contradict yourself...its a waste of bandwidth!

There is no money to be made by a factory gearing up a whole production line to make a bike that they would sell to very few people. Lets not forget that bike makers are in it first and fore most to make money. If they have a bike that gets a cult following it is normally after they have ceased making this type of bike.

Hence why after more than 20 years of different Jap bikes I have at last bought my dream bike. An Airhead BMW. I waited way to long to fulfill this dream. Yes I am trackie dac wearing BMW tragic. :D

[QUOTE=MotoEdde;229732]Then get to the point
Where do you see this?
:confused1:

I dunno...I think I disagree. BUT you're right that the over-landing market is very niche, and profits to that consumer segment are slim.

Nevertheless, that niche adds lustre to any mark(Honda, BMW, etc.) in their ability to claim how tough and tested their technology is.

The facade of an overland vehicle sells VERY well...look at the example of the SUV among autos, the BMW 1xxxGS, etc.

It is in threads like these that new riders or riders that are beginning their search can learn from experienced people like Mountainman, Mollydog and several others. I have communicated with yourselves personally and respect each of you for your knowledge and wisdom.

At the end of the day though, it is you who will be on that bike for hours, days, months and sometimes years. Your decision should be just that - your decision. You can take the positives and negatives from threads like these and then make your own mind up.

I own both a F650GS as well as a DR650. I have done Alaska and Mexico on the F650 and the DR is the stead for our RTW trip starting next Oct. I had my own reasons for doing this and enjoy riding both bikes as they both have their positives and negatives.

My point being, if you are looking for advice, note it is advice based on personal experiences.

Mountainman, thanks for the last post - extremely insightful.

If it is your dream bike, then that makes it the perfect choice. Enjoy the ride :)

Hey Blackbeast, thanks. Glad to hear you are heading off on the trip. Be sure to post more of your own personal decision making process, usually very relevant insight comes from people just as they are planning or finished the planning process. Many people will be able to relate.

Hijack
 

Time gentlemen please....

The thread has be come seriously Hijacked with the views and counter arguments which have been a little dragged out.
I have just read through the entire thread from beginning to end and by the time i got to the end I had forgotten what the original question was.

Somewhere in the middle somebody suggested continuing the argument through PM's. I would agree that is probably a good idea. It makes things easier for all users by effectively keeping the wheat and the chaff separate which helps the HUBB remain a useful resource.

Thanks

Great thread! Lots of interesting subjects covered here, but I would like to focus on the following ones based on personal experience:
1) Quality of old and new BMWs
2) Quality of BMW maintenance and that computer diagnostic, and
3) Why I switched to the new Yamaha Tenere

1) Quality of old and new BMWs

I've owned '94 K75RT, '06 K1200GT, '07 R1200GS (two of them 'cause one was stolen) in the span of about 7 years. The best quality was the '94 K75RT because it broke down the least and towards the end and had the longest mileage. It broke down mainly because of the malfunctioned fuel pump which two different BMW dealers have not been able to fix it for good after, oh, half a dozen of cold mornings when the bike didn't start. I'll come back to that in the next subject. At less than 10,000km, the GT had failed to start twice, which resulted with towing the bike both times. Again, the dealer looked at it, claimed to have fixed it, but failed again at the exact same problem. Lastly, the brake of the first GS I owned failed me 4 times, all on autobahn! Luckily, I was exiting the autobahn and was slowing down, but the brake was non-existent until I pumped it several times, gearing down, then the brakes came back slowly. This series of experience tells me that the newer Beemer has gone downhill in quality but higher in price and cockier in service.

2) Quality of BMW maintenance and that computer diagnostic

All of the above problems pointed to additional common problem, the quality of the mechanics guys from two dealerships. Each problem happened to each model more than once, each time the respective mechanic told me they checked, re-checked, test-drove, and proved it was ok. The fuel-pump problem with the K75RT was never fixed before I traded for the GT. The GT starting problem didn't get sorted before I traded for the GS. In fact, on the day I was getting the GS, I had to tow the GT from a two-hour drive straight to the dealer, then picked up the GS. The brake problems with the GS were the most dramatic. They told me that they used the computer to check each time and it was ok each time. For the final time, i.e. the fourth time, then they said they discovered the ABS computer component that sits above the twin cylinder was no longer sitting properly because where it's sitting is broken; therefore, the computer could never tell. Please don't ask me exactly where and which part as I am not technically inclined, but this tells me that I have repeatedly risks my lives because of their over-reliance on their computer diagnostic.

3) Why I switched to the new Yamaha Tenere

As you can imagine based on my experience above, I started to ask myself why I am paying for the over-priced bike and the over-priced service, which is why most of us enter into a bike relationship with a brand. This happened when my first GS was stolen last year in January. Luckily I got my insurance, but there are no other bikes in the market that tempted me. I had considered the KTM 990 Adventure, but decided against it due to its reputation of short-interval maintenance and frequent breakdowns. I test drove the F800GS. I agree that it has good power, but never get myself around the fact that BMW is going chain-drive, and its look never rocks my world because I always think that the F800GS is just a wannabe R1200GS. In addition, my attitude toward biking has gone from blasting on the autobahn to a truly doing-it-all biking that suits my medium to smallish built. Plus I want to be truly confident in lifting up the bike by myself should I have a fall in the woods. Then I saw the news coverage on the upcoming Tenere which wasn't available for another half a year. I had no car and I was looking for another bike, so I've decided to get another GS to fill the void. Luckily, this GS didn't have the same problems as the former one, but I have fallen out of love with it. So I kept it at really low mileage, traded it with Yamaha dealership, got a good price on the GS, ended up with a new Tenere and a good amount of cash. I could say that I have had the most fun with Tenere than any other BMWs I've ever had because its truly do-it-all capability, simplicity without the BMW's bells and whistles, built-in long-range tank that no bike I know of in the market can match that, the savings, and in all shallowness its good look.

Perhaps partly because my attitude towards biking has changed, and partly because I was fed up with the declining quality of BMW bikes and services, I really enjoy the Tenere. I did no RTW trip, just a small one to Nordkapp from Germany, but it gave me zero problem whatsoever. I left the bike outside for over three weeks during which the temperature averaging minus teen to as low as -17, and the bike started on the button.

I think Yamaha came up with this bike - more like revising it from the one in the 80s - because it is carving out a niche in the market, much like BMW did when they started with the whole GS series. The whole all-round purpose market was growing fast in the recent years mainly due to the popularity of the BMW GS. Then you see a whole range of brands trying to tap onto the same segment, big engine (over 900cc), large statue (just big and tall), lots of horses, lots of luggage capacity, and all marketed as do-all and expedition kind of bikes. Yamaha could have come back with a straight super tenere to be in that market segment, but it didn't and I am glad. I think it saw that there is a missing segment, i.e. the smaller bike but nimbler yet able to go a long way on a single tank with smallish luggage capacity and still an allround bike. Of course, one can get any 600cc types bikes, and add on after-market tanks and accessories to make that, but yamaha decided to make one that fits all those bills.

I think people get a Tenere not because of its power because the Dakar or F800GS and plenty other bikes out there can do that. But to do that with a built-in huge tank (over 450km range), agility on- or off-road, and still weigh 400 pound, there just aren't that many in the market. Many people also mention the BMW F800GS is a direct competitor vs. the Tenere. FYI, the BMW F800GS claimed weight on the spec is wrong, there are people who physically weigh them and it weighs about 20kg more than what the specs say, dry weight vs. dry weight, and wet vs. wet. Even the specs were right, the puny tank in the GS makes up whatever the extra power it has over the Tenere for me. I remember one - might have been a BMW dealer - told me something like 70-80% of the time most bikers use less than 40hp. Sure a lot of us buy a machine and brag about it because of that 'hp' number, and surely it gives you that nano seconds feeling of acceleration.

Ahem... Any chance we can get back onto topic?

"Not that I would buy one. Is anyone doing RTW on a F800GS???"

Tim

Interesting Tim, I am curious to know why you chose this point, i.e. right after my thread, to suggest we should get back to the topic.

Correct me if I am wrong, I agree that the thread has gone off in many tangents, some are more relevant than others, and I thought I was just trying to stay on some of the points or at least tangents, e.g. your mentioning the quality of the BMW bikes and your reference to your 1200GSA, another point by someone else about BMW service and computer diagnostic and I thought I added some of my experience on that, and another person mentioning the inclusion of the Tenere in the thread.

You are a GoldMember and your latest comment seems to carry some authoritarian tone, did I step on some toes?

Hijack
 

Josephau

Your views are as welcome as every other user, but Tim is completely correct you are completely off topic.
Correct etiquette would be to start a new Thread. It is by doing this that we make it easier for all users to find the information that they are looking for without too much fuss.

If there are any other HUBB guys here who've done any traveling on the F800GS besides you (F650GS is close enough IMO) and Mountain man, I haven't seen or heard from them on the HUBB.

Well, Electric_Monk, I don't envy you as being a moderator, it's a tough job, a sensitive job. But since you are the moderator, and Tim is being the Gold Member, I guess the opinion on what is relevant and what is not is over-ruled by the authority here, hence whether the forum is for the people and by the people is being questioned in my book. I suppose I just kick myself out, willingly. You all enjoy, and sorry for taking up the space and the time.

Chill....
 

I enjoyed and appreciated josephau's post - a lot of information is generated by people going off on a tangent.... Leave him alone!

S

josepau: Gold Membership denotes someone who has chosen to financially support HUBB, it doesn't confer any status regarding moderation. My input to a thread and my opinion is no more important than yours.

I too found your comments interesting as the Tenere is a bike that I had considered and perhaps rejected too quickly. I hope you have posted them within the Yamaha section of this board.

I am so sorry that you and Mollydog have taken such exception to my few words, 'Ahem... Any chance we can get back on topic' and you obviously feel I am out of place making the comment.

Nevertheless anyone reading the 60+ posts on this thread hoping to find useful information about riding round the world on an F800 is going to be somewhat disappointed.

And I suppose by posting this response I have just compounded the problem. :blushing:
Tim

Check out the Thread Title ....
 

No worries Tim, your comments and opinions are always welcome:thumbup1:

My intention with my posting this was not to start any fights here. Nor was it a critical overtone right off the bat or a ‘hook’ to get people at each others throats. :cursing: I did think that this thread was going in a very intresting direction and there was heaps of great advice.

I have a genuine interest in all things BMW. I was given some pointers on where to find info about the F800GS in this thread from other forums. I have looked at these and am even more convinced that I would not own one of these. :eek3:

This thread may give you some more insight:

Bmw F800gs Q&A - ADVrider

I don't think the trip was RTW, but the rider seems to have quite a bit of experience.

Apologies if that has been linked before. I read through all 5 pages and didn't see it.

RTWMotorcyclin is Mountain Man on the the HUBB...he's posted his opinion on this thread already.

Pat,
Lets no go creating angst without reason...lets give him/her the benefit of the doubt.

I'm guessing that the authors are the same person...I won't give away the basis of my deductions;)

Sorry. I didn't realize they were the same person. That, then, doesn't provide any new information.

Yes, I can confirm that there is a unanimity of persona in this instance.

Garry from Oz.

I plan to switch from a KLX650 to the GS 800 and was wondering if anyone has experience of riding long distance with a pillion on the Beamer (please read: wife, girlfriend, female companion).

I think those who have made a similar change know exactly what I mean with my enquiry.

What were the comments from our larger bottomed members of the opposite sex ? Is the bike a maker or a breaker for comfort?

Cheers!

Just finished an RTW tour on the 800. 21000 miles two rear flats and a headlight bulb which can hardly be blamed on BMW. The rocker cover leaked intermittently but this is a known issue and a tube of silicon cures the problem.
Some intermittent starting / cutting out probs which could have been fuel.
Roads in Mongolia and Siberia are non existent/deep gravel/ pot holed, rutted, washboarded and nothing fell off! Checking nuts and bolts regularly helped as did lubeing and adjusting the chain which lasted 17000 miles before repalcing it as a precaution.
Absolutely brilliant bike as long as you use an Air Hawk seat. Its a bit on the tall side and the "instant" throttle response can get you into trouble off road but beats the GS "Tractors" hands down in all departments.

i just part exed my f800 for a 1200gsa , mine was one of the first released and although i loved it to bits it had a few problems and a quite a few recalls ,it only had to sniff cheap fuel to develop a habit of stalling(and thats here in the uk)at 60mph it had a vibration enough to loosen fillings ,the seat was a recycled park bench,and yet i stilled loved it.
one of the only reasons i exchanged it was the price my local dealer OFFERED me, i lost about £500 pounds on it and came out of the deal with a 08 plate fully kitted gsa:thumbup1:
the F800GS is a great bike and i will be looking for another one in the future, just the 1200 serves my needs better at the moment,im sure once the piggy bank is full again there will be another one in my garage

Great to hear peoples opinions on which bike to choose !! I've only been riding for 15months, with sole intention of swapping my usual methods of travel to that of a bike..............

I researched loads of bikes, but kept coming back to f650gs, being female with short legs, good entry level bike for new rider and the various seat heights seemed perfect ! Sept '08, the new twins were marketed so decided to buy one - not knowing where i'd end up in the world ! To start with i chose to have the lowered suspension - gave me more confidence - but unfortunately i couldnt have the centre stand.

A few months ago it went in for service and i asked how much it would be to have suspension and centre stand - 'not possible' was the reply, it's now 'factory set'...............:thumbdown:

HELP..............I'm off round africa in sept and could really do with one !!!!!!!! Any solutions ?????????

LouB

PS fuel sensor problem was a model recall, had mine done back in nov, i also attended the BMW mechanics course and Simon mentioned the hoses coming 'off' was a problem and to replace with jubilee clips - not sure whether that is a better solution

OK just generic advice here as I'm not familiar with your bike .

Option one = fit the centre stand ,[now assuming that the reason BMW won't fit a centre stand is because of lack of leverage with lowered bike ] ,run the wheel of the bike onto a short,thin plank of wood to increase the height .Bike is now higher and you should be able to lever it onto centre stand .

Option two , fit a centrestand and have the stand shortened by an appropriate amount.

Option three , carry a length of wood so that you can prop up the rear of the bike .[Employ sidestand ,then lean the bike over on the sidestand and ,on the other side of the bike ,place the length of wood under a suitable place on the frame to prop the bike up and keep the rear wheel off the ground ].Secure sidestand with a strap so that it won't flip back on you .

Proper hose clamps like Jubilee clips are usually better than original fitment ,because you can get them tighter -what's surprising is that the originals are so poor .Bad BMW !:thumbdown:

I am nearing the end of my Canada-Argentina trip on my F8. I feel I have learned greatly from my experiences along the way and perspectives have changed too.
I figured should quote this as it is probably the most educated and valuable posts in this statistical BS spewing thread and deserved not to be forgotten.:thumbup1:

Interesting thread.
Seems more and more riders are heading out there now and despite Ewan & Charlie's BMW promo films, are not all choosing new BMW's. I think old Air heads might be more popular now? How come? Two reasons:
1. More are doing serious research into reality. 2. Budget.

The other point to remember is that the Long Way Round films barely made a ripple in the USA. Here Today, Gone Tomorrow! Many riders I know (they liked the films!) commented that Ewan and Charlie were clearly on the wrong bikes, and noted how they blew it with KTM. The fried GS scene didn't inspire much confidence either. Will newbies even get this? No.
And BMW's sales boost in the UK prove this beyond a doubt. People are dumb. Maybe they think BMW road service plan will retrieve them out in Africa? :rofl:

The F800GS is a good bike, best machine BMW make, IMO. But it still has a few typical BMW issues it seems. I don't own this bike but two friends do. NO problems from either one. The F800 rides much lighter than it's true 490 lbs. wet weight (US MCN test). This makes it only about 35 lbs. lighter than a R1200GS. But feels smaller and lighter by far to me. I got to switch back and forth between a new R12GS and F8GS. I loved the F800GS, a really nice bike! Great road handling, little soft off road but pretty nice. Vibey on the highway over 70 mph.

I don't know about Europe, UK or S. Africa, but in my neighborhood I see more and more travelers heading out riding simple, cheap dual sport singles. The Kawasaki KLR650 still rates close to the most popular choice going among travelers on a budget, especially younger riders.

Older rich guys apparently can afford a new $16K us KTM 990, $15K us F800GS or $17K us R1200GS. If you can afford these bikes, take them!
They are ALL good. (priceless in fact! :innocent:)

The F800GS costs about $15,000 usd, (and going UP) simply not in my budget and I don't finance motorcycles. I always figure there is a chance of losing the bike outright in the 3rd world. How much are you willing to risk? Does your theft insurance cover in Panama? :innocent: Mine does not. I'm not suggesting taking a Postie, Moped or 50cc Chinese scooter (although more and more do!) but for me something more middle ground makes more sense. Several recent ride reports I've seen seem to reflect this.

If a ride will be on road only then any affordable bike will do and this becomes a pointless conversation. If going more dirt roads and tracks then any properly set up dual sport single out there will out perform a loaded up F800GS off road anyway. Make your dual sport single comfortable and now the advantage of the F800GS diminishes further. It's a great bike, a joy to ride, but in deep sand? mud? rocks and ruts a well set up, lightly loaded dual sport single will be easier to handle for most riders. It will also crash better and be cheaper and easier to run and maintain. Maybe this is why we even see so many former BMW riders switching to simple dual sport bikes, even 250's.

I don't need to cruise at 90 mph all day. A KLR is good at 70 mph and with a good seat and shield is OK for a 10 hour day in the rain, can hit potholes at full speed and get though sand, mud and slop fairly well with a decent rider aboard.

I was in the dealer getting my R1200 looked at and a fellow came in just returned from rtw on his f800gs. I spoke with him for a while, and apart from a few niggling problems, it's worst failure was the rear shock. He had it replaced with an Ohlins, and said he'd start around again in a heartbeat.
Good enough for me, and I traded for one.

Hope this helps

Antidote For Kool-Aid Poisoning?
 

Not all good news apparently:
Check out the threads below. Lots of comments from many owners with lots of experience on the bike.

The text below is quoted from the 2nd thread listed.
F800GS - More Problems with mine, lets hear about yours.... - ADVrider
Beware: F800gs Rims Are Junk! - ADVrider

I was almost worried about you Patrick, but everything looks almost normal. :scooter:

LouB - re your centerstand dilemma - maybe this will help

F650GS LOW w/center stand - ADVrider