Hijack
 

Time gentlemen please....

The thread has be come seriously Hijacked with the views and counter arguments which have been a little dragged out.
I have just read through the entire thread from beginning to end and by the time i got to the end I had forgotten what the original question was.

Somewhere in the middle somebody suggested continuing the argument through PM's. I would agree that is probably a good idea. It makes things easier for all users by effectively keeping the wheat and the chaff separate which helps the HUBB remain a useful resource.

Thanks

Great thread! Lots of interesting subjects covered here, but I would like to focus on the following ones based on personal experience:
1) Quality of old and new BMWs
2) Quality of BMW maintenance and that computer diagnostic, and
3) Why I switched to the new Yamaha Tenere

1) Quality of old and new BMWs

I've owned '94 K75RT, '06 K1200GT, '07 R1200GS (two of them 'cause one was stolen) in the span of about 7 years. The best quality was the '94 K75RT because it broke down the least and towards the end and had the longest mileage. It broke down mainly because of the malfunctioned fuel pump which two different BMW dealers have not been able to fix it for good after, oh, half a dozen of cold mornings when the bike didn't start. I'll come back to that in the next subject. At less than 10,000km, the GT had failed to start twice, which resulted with towing the bike both times. Again, the dealer looked at it, claimed to have fixed it, but failed again at the exact same problem. Lastly, the brake of the first GS I owned failed me 4 times, all on autobahn! Luckily, I was exiting the autobahn and was slowing down, but the brake was non-existent until I pumped it several times, gearing down, then the brakes came back slowly. This series of experience tells me that the newer Beemer has gone downhill in quality but higher in price and cockier in service.

2) Quality of BMW maintenance and that computer diagnostic

All of the above problems pointed to additional common problem, the quality of the mechanics guys from two dealerships. Each problem happened to each model more than once, each time the respective mechanic told me they checked, re-checked, test-drove, and proved it was ok. The fuel-pump problem with the K75RT was never fixed before I traded for the GT. The GT starting problem didn't get sorted before I traded for the GS. In fact, on the day I was getting the GS, I had to tow the GT from a two-hour drive straight to the dealer, then picked up the GS. The brake problems with the GS were the most dramatic. They told me that they used the computer to check each time and it was ok each time. For the final time, i.e. the fourth time, then they said they discovered the ABS computer component that sits above the twin cylinder was no longer sitting properly because where it's sitting is broken; therefore, the computer could never tell. Please don't ask me exactly where and which part as I am not technically inclined, but this tells me that I have repeatedly risks my lives because of their over-reliance on their computer diagnostic.

3) Why I switched to the new Yamaha Tenere

As you can imagine based on my experience above, I started to ask myself why I am paying for the over-priced bike and the over-priced service, which is why most of us enter into a bike relationship with a brand. This happened when my first GS was stolen last year in January. Luckily I got my insurance, but there are no other bikes in the market that tempted me. I had considered the KTM 990 Adventure, but decided against it due to its reputation of short-interval maintenance and frequent breakdowns. I test drove the F800GS. I agree that it has good power, but never get myself around the fact that BMW is going chain-drive, and its look never rocks my world because I always think that the F800GS is just a wannabe R1200GS. In addition, my attitude toward biking has gone from blasting on the autobahn to a truly doing-it-all biking that suits my medium to smallish built. Plus I want to be truly confident in lifting up the bike by myself should I have a fall in the woods. Then I saw the news coverage on the upcoming Tenere which wasn't available for another half a year. I had no car and I was looking for another bike, so I've decided to get another GS to fill the void. Luckily, this GS didn't have the same problems as the former one, but I have fallen out of love with it. So I kept it at really low mileage, traded it with Yamaha dealership, got a good price on the GS, ended up with a new Tenere and a good amount of cash. I could say that I have had the most fun with Tenere than any other BMWs I've ever had because its truly do-it-all capability, simplicity without the BMW's bells and whistles, built-in long-range tank that no bike I know of in the market can match that, the savings, and in all shallowness its good look.

Perhaps partly because my attitude towards biking has changed, and partly because I was fed up with the declining quality of BMW bikes and services, I really enjoy the Tenere. I did no RTW trip, just a small one to Nordkapp from Germany, but it gave me zero problem whatsoever. I left the bike outside for over three weeks during which the temperature averaging minus teen to as low as -17, and the bike started on the button.

I think Yamaha came up with this bike - more like revising it from the one in the 80s - because it is carving out a niche in the market, much like BMW did when they started with the whole GS series. The whole all-round purpose market was growing fast in the recent years mainly due to the popularity of the BMW GS. Then you see a whole range of brands trying to tap onto the same segment, big engine (over 900cc), large statue (just big and tall), lots of horses, lots of luggage capacity, and all marketed as do-all and expedition kind of bikes. Yamaha could have come back with a straight super tenere to be in that market segment, but it didn't and I am glad. I think it saw that there is a missing segment, i.e. the smaller bike but nimbler yet able to go a long way on a single tank with smallish luggage capacity and still an allround bike. Of course, one can get any 600cc types bikes, and add on after-market tanks and accessories to make that, but yamaha decided to make one that fits all those bills.

I think people get a Tenere not because of its power because the Dakar or F800GS and plenty other bikes out there can do that. But to do that with a built-in huge tank (over 450km range), agility on- or off-road, and still weigh 400 pound, there just aren't that many in the market. Many people also mention the BMW F800GS is a direct competitor vs. the Tenere. FYI, the BMW F800GS claimed weight on the spec is wrong, there are people who physically weigh them and it weighs about 20kg more than what the specs say, dry weight vs. dry weight, and wet vs. wet. Even the specs were right, the puny tank in the GS makes up whatever the extra power it has over the Tenere for me. I remember one - might have been a BMW dealer - told me something like 70-80% of the time most bikers use less than 40hp. Sure a lot of us buy a machine and brag about it because of that 'hp' number, and surely it gives you that nano seconds feeling of acceleration.

Ahem... Any chance we can get back onto topic?

"Not that I would buy one. Is anyone doing RTW on a F800GS???"

Tim

Interesting Tim, I am curious to know why you chose this point, i.e. right after my thread, to suggest we should get back to the topic.

Correct me if I am wrong, I agree that the thread has gone off in many tangents, some are more relevant than others, and I thought I was just trying to stay on some of the points or at least tangents, e.g. your mentioning the quality of the BMW bikes and your reference to your 1200GSA, another point by someone else about BMW service and computer diagnostic and I thought I added some of my experience on that, and another person mentioning the inclusion of the Tenere in the thread.

You are a GoldMember and your latest comment seems to carry some authoritarian tone, did I step on some toes?

Hijack
 

Josephau

Your views are as welcome as every other user, but Tim is completely correct you are completely off topic.
Correct etiquette would be to start a new Thread. It is by doing this that we make it easier for all users to find the information that they are looking for without too much fuss.

If there are any other HUBB guys here who've done any traveling on the F800GS besides you (F650GS is close enough IMO) and Mountain man, I haven't seen or heard from them on the HUBB.

Well, Electric_Monk, I don't envy you as being a moderator, it's a tough job, a sensitive job. But since you are the moderator, and Tim is being the Gold Member, I guess the opinion on what is relevant and what is not is over-ruled by the authority here, hence whether the forum is for the people and by the people is being questioned in my book. I suppose I just kick myself out, willingly. You all enjoy, and sorry for taking up the space and the time.

Chill....
 

I enjoyed and appreciated josephau's post - a lot of information is generated by people going off on a tangent.... Leave him alone!

S

josepau: Gold Membership denotes someone who has chosen to financially support HUBB, it doesn't confer any status regarding moderation. My input to a thread and my opinion is no more important than yours.

I too found your comments interesting as the Tenere is a bike that I had considered and perhaps rejected too quickly. I hope you have posted them within the Yamaha section of this board.

I am so sorry that you and Mollydog have taken such exception to my few words, 'Ahem... Any chance we can get back on topic' and you obviously feel I am out of place making the comment.

Nevertheless anyone reading the 60+ posts on this thread hoping to find useful information about riding round the world on an F800 is going to be somewhat disappointed.

And I suppose by posting this response I have just compounded the problem. :blushing:
Tim

Check out the Thread Title ....
 

No worries Tim, your comments and opinions are always welcome:thumbup1:

My intention with my posting this was not to start any fights here. Nor was it a critical overtone right off the bat or a ‘hook’ to get people at each others throats. :cursing: I did think that this thread was going in a very intresting direction and there was heaps of great advice.

I have a genuine interest in all things BMW. I was given some pointers on where to find info about the F800GS in this thread from other forums. I have looked at these and am even more convinced that I would not own one of these. :eek3:

This thread may give you some more insight:

Bmw F800gs Q&A - ADVrider

I don't think the trip was RTW, but the rider seems to have quite a bit of experience.

Apologies if that has been linked before. I read through all 5 pages and didn't see it.

RTWMotorcyclin is Mountain Man on the the HUBB...he's posted his opinion on this thread already.

Pat,
Lets no go creating angst without reason...lets give him/her the benefit of the doubt.

I'm guessing that the authors are the same person...I won't give away the basis of my deductions;)

Sorry. I didn't realize they were the same person. That, then, doesn't provide any new information.