LOL, Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, sigh, that is complete nonsense. It seems like long ago already but I rode RTW in ’07 and ’08 in different segments on a KLR650, a DL1000 and a GS800, so as a fan of whatever bike is the best one to ride for the ride regardless of make or model and having seen what people are actually riding out there, I respectfully and completely disagree with that comment.

If anyone is out of touch, it may be you I’m afraid. You should really get out there Patrick, it’s a big world extending beyond the borders of the US and Mexico and it changes fast. I can appreciate you are trying to glean information from websites and the such and maybe do the best you can with limited information, but my comments are based on recent experience and I don’t carry that intense brand allegiance or bias that seems to cloud your thoughts whenever the word BMW is mentioned. In the end, they are all just bikes, a means of transport for the adventure.

I won't drone on to point out the facts and the many areas where I completely disagree with your comments, the to and fro would detract from this thread, but feel free to pm me and we can discuss offline.

Suffice it to say, there are many great bikes to take you around the world or cross continents. Too many too discuss at length. They all have their limitations and their compromises.

It's not rocket science or a great visionary comment, the 800GS fits right into the middle ground of not too small, not too big, good on road, good off road, good performance, dual cylinder, and in most countries priced in the high middle of potential RTW bikes. (see below). The reason that successful businesses and political parties migrate to the middle of the bell curve, it's where most of the people are.

If you have done a big ride before and you know that you want to ride as much offroad as possible, you may want to look at something like the KTM 690 or 990. If you know that you want to ride the highway as much as possible, look at something like the street orientated dual sports such as the DL650 or the 650GS. If you want to ride highway and are two up, look at something like the DL1000 or the 1200GS. If like everyone else, you want a mix of everything, or don't know exactly how things will shake out, the 800GS is a no brainer selection.

And who knows whether the ultimate percentage of RTW bikes out there will be X% or 20% comprised of 800s & 650s. There are many bikes these days which are good and there are always more coming. The remainder of the market will be spread between many different old and new models. But this bike was actually designed and marketed with our market in mind and over time, it will become the most commonly occuring bike and the one be first on many peoples minds when they debate what to get. Doesn't mean eveyone will buy it or even a majority, but it will be more than any one other single model. For now, it's as close as it gets.

If anyone has any questions about bike selection, feel free to email or pm me, happy to help. :)

Canadian bike prices (MSRP):

Kawasaki KLR 650: $7,000
Suzuki DL650: $9,000
BMW650GS: $9,500
Suzuki DL1000: $12,000
BMW800GS: $12,250
KTM 990A: $17,000
BMW 1200GS: $17,000

Hey Tim,

Bummer to hear about the issues with your bike. There were a few minor things on mine, didn't seem to be too much problem but I was probably used to fixing little things at that point in my trip. I had a small weld tacked to the side stand in Columbia. Carried a block of wood for the small base plate but wished I had the $0.10 stand pad that a HU member bought for me in Damascus. The rear pipe is indeed hilariously large. Had the leak from the head cover gasket, apparently very common even on last years 800, fixed but not many spare gaskets on this continent last year is that is any indication. Didn't you throw a set of TKCs on it initially?

Hey Edde,

How's things?

Come now, you're in finance, you now that the transport is a sunk cost and a cost relevant to almost all bikes, except the absolute cheapest that have no carnet and can be abandoned if they blow up. Not everyone has the wisdom to ride a K :) Cheers.

Hey Doc,

Not sure of your numbers, but here in Canada it would be closer to 7/12, maybe half the cost with taxes if looking at new. (assuming you would add similar farkles on both)

They are not the same bike though. Single cylinder thumpers should be compared against other thumpers to be fair. More comparable to a DR or the 690 would be an interesting ride.

A lot depends on where and how long you ride each day, but a big benefit of twins is the reduced vibration and fatigue. Day after day, some people can really notice it, especially if you ride long days. One gets used to it as you know, where it really becomes apparent is if you switch bikes but keep a similar schedule or if one person is on a twin and the other one isn't. It's subtle but after a while one party will want to stop more frequently and for longer.

You can pick a percentage improvement, say 5%, but for me I immediately noticed that I was less fatigued when I switched bikes. Some vague arguement could be made about safety, but a tangible issue was less fatigue makes one more aware and allowed for more enjoyment from the ride. Same thing can be accomplished by going slow and stopping a lot though, so may not be as important to many.

You want to look at facts, look at this.

Why don't you address Docsherlock's points directly as presented? Suddenly you're comparing singles and twins??:taz: .... his point was COST wasn't it? Here is what he wrote:
See any questions in there asking you to compare singles and twins? Point is, the KLR kicks BMW ASS in any financed based comparison you want to come up with. Maybe you work with Ben Bernanky? :rofl:

And all your comments on fatigue could be reversed if the we go off road.
Now the Twin guys will be the ones getting tired and dropping back while the single guys are having fun. :Beach:

Patrick,
Not all riders who do trips post their trips on ADVRider or the HUBB, hell quite a few don't bother. In my year travelling, more than half the other riders I met on my ride weren't on ADV or the HUBB...

Things are different offline...and sometimes we forget that...I think that's all MM is alluding to...I can't wait for the next opp!

MountainMan and I oddly enough met in UB...and BTW, his slander about me being a Finance guy is not fair, how do you think the Dutch got their bikes shipped for free?!?!
And why isn't the K75 mentioned as a RTW option?
JK...hope all is well in Vanc.

[QUOTE=MotoEdde
Not all riders who do trips post their trips on ADVRider or the HUBB, hell quite a few don't bother.

Couldn't agree more. Did it on an old banger that I though looked great untill I put it next to a new one. I went for the single 650 Dakar and loved it largely because I knew how to fix and prepare it (thanks to the chain gang) and because it's super hot from all angles. Can't care that I could have bought 2 DR's because they don't give me that lovin' feeling. It's a hobby, and hobbies are there to take your money and keep you busy. Smokers and piss heads spend heaps on that, why is it considered silly when bikers do?

Gotta be with the 1200 guys on the masses with bikes argument though sadly. (Not surprised it blew over.) We just came back 3 weeks ago, and I have to say that half of the bikes I've seen were 1200's often by people riding in BMW gear as well, which is a dead giveaway which type of rider it is to me. So no doubt the idea for it came from TV. Don't think Terra Circa would give that group the same inspiration as the two lover boys. (Saying that Austin gave me my overall travel inspiration, so not sure how I ended up on a BMW). Saw a lot of 800GS's too but I'm pretty sure they were all local (no or next to no luggage). 1 DL1000, 1 640, 1 XT600, 1 DR, 2 single 650GS's, 1 new KLR (short ride), quite a few Brazilian XT660's (must be on sale there) and some old muts that I couldn't recognise quickly enough.

Saw a lot less bikes thoughout our Asia trip (which to me signals that peoply didn't know about intercontinental bike travel yet either as it was just after the LWR DVD release) and only 1 1200. 1 old Tenere, 3 640 (all in the same group though) and I can't remember any others sorry (if there were any). Oh, there was the group of transalps that we shipped with.
All we heard was whether or not we've seen LWR and whether or not that inspired us. We didn't get that question as much anymore, but saw a lot more adventure motorbikes. Mostly 1200's. Think the 800 will become more common as well, once they iron out the problems. Maybe not in Europe though, but more so in the 'dirty' continents.

I was amazed, how many people (mostly non-riders, though) seem to have it somehow written in stone, that BMW should be the only right choice for a long trip. Not saying it would necessarily be a bad choice, not at all, and there´s no doubt they have many great touring bikes in their lineup. But these days there are also plenty of highly capable others to choose from, often available for less money, too.

I've owned BMW bikes and had BMW cars. Neither match the expectations the general publuc seem to put on them based on products from thirty years ago. Then again, I know plenty of people on both two and four wheels who have problems but still can't pull away from the brand image. BMW marketing must love it.

I must say, I pick a bike with my head not my heart. I think it's the difference between people who travel by bike and those who ride them. I have no interest in plastic missiles travelling in circles either which I find is another pointer to how you see your wheels.

Andy

Yes, I've done the last 120,000 miles on TKCs and have now done 12,000 miles on the F650GS. My criticisms perhaps came over a bit harsh. I have a R1200GSA and was looking for a second bike that could handle all-day motorway rising at 80+mph and still be nimble offroad.

The F650/800GS is uniquely positioned to do both of these well. The obvious alternatives that are widely available in Europe can't do both, though the R1200GS (non adventure) comes close.

It's extremely rare in the UK to see the Kawasaki and Suzuki models mentioned above, so I wouldn't be rushing off to buy one of those.

The older Transalp looks OKish, but the new one is heavier than the R1200GS.

The new Tenere can't handle the long distance motorway cruising and the seat is a bit high for me. A small capacity twin dropped into a slightly lower version of the Tenere would be exciting, though.

The other alternative was the BMW G650 Xchallenge and Xcountry. I was impressed with the road performance of the Xchallenge. Both of these suffer from abysmally poor fuel range but there is now a reasonably-priced add-on rear fuel tank.

Later this year BMW is bringing out a touring version of the G650 Xcountry.

Tim

I think that BMW have worked a wonderful bit of marketing and like Harley Davidsons the whole ethos of a particular style (Lifestyle) has been etched into the subconscious of buyers. Like many aspects of life people are affected by advertising, branding etc etc. It is why the top companies spend so much on advertising. The GS brand has been very carefully sold over many years as the bike for adventure and many will and have bought into the dream - just look at the sales figures. Is it the best Bike not at all - thats a very personal thing and needs to meet the needs of lots of other factors. But remember the markets will be flooded with the GS800 as it was with the 1150 and 1200 there are still more and more TV celebrities doing the Adventure thing one way or another so this market will keep growing for some time. BMW above everyone else in the motorcycle market has the unique position to influence a broad buyer market -there bike showrooms are usually mixed in to their car showrooms -reaching an affluent circle of people who may often know little or nothing about bikes but buy into the Badge or dream after all they probably run a bmw car as well..
I owned several BMWs back in the 70/80s and travelled a lot on a R65 none of those BMWs were wonderfully reliable by any measure, I also travelled across America back then that was on a old battered suzuki 500 twin it only ever broke down in very heavy downpours (Electrics were crap). I have owned ridden and travelled on many makes and types of bike but after all those years have returned to the BMW (old gs) not because I think they are super reliable they have lots of foibles but are reasonably easy to live with, service ,repair, very comfortable (two up) etc. Its fairly heavy big and impractible for heavy dirt road use but what is not loaded up for a two up trip - but it suits my needs very well as for the new GS I think they missed a chance to keep it much more simple or even market a simplified model - simple electrics no ABS etc etc However they have hit on a market (CC) area which is currently missed out by most the other manufactures. Just dont forget BMW are only bothered about badging and sales. Not what is really needed for an overlanding bike that market is far two small for a big manufacturer.

Funny how attached people get to their own brands :-)

The problem is ... not just as Jake says, that BMW isnt really interested in building a proper overlanding bike, its that NO-ONE is really interested in building a proper overlanding bike.

I used to think KTM's 640 Adventure was about the closest someone has come, but then if they were really serious about it, they would have put in a engine capable of going round the world, and not something that vibrates like a bi-atch, has to be serviced weekly and rebuilt every 6 months.

At the end of the day, if you want an overlanding bike, you cant buy one off the shelf. One way or another you have to customise it, cause NO-ONE is interested in building a bike for that tiny market.

Yes it can. I did long distannce motorway cruising with it last summer (well - 1400 km's anyway), fully laden with daughter and bags. Although I agree that the Ten wasn't designed with this as its primary task.