I have seen that some X Challenges are snapping the subframe clean in two when loaded up on the rear. Then again the subfarme is all alloy.

The F800ST had computer problems too when it first came out.

Last thing you would want when going up through say the Andres is the computer to pack up and go home on the F800GS. :(

Older bikes might be easier to fix but they break down more often. My 1200GSA had 45,000 miles on it before a problem.

Unfortunately the 2008 deliveries of the F650/800GS twin haven't proved as reliable as they should. And there are some design issues with the bike, some of which can be fixed (stupid side stand) and others that can't.

The F800GS and the F650GS twins have the potential to be great bikes. Just need some tweaking.

But you'll still get a lot of guys buying bikes for the pose factor even though they go nowhere near a forest trail, so the 1200GS/GSA has some life left yet.

Tim

[QUOTE=MountainMan;229276]The 800GS will become the defacto bike of choice for RTW and long distance riding.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::smartass::smartass: :smartass:

[QUOTE=Tim
Unfortunately the 2008 deliveries of the F650/800GS twin haven't proved as reliable as they should. And there are some design issues with the bike, some of which can be fixed (stupid side stand) and others that can't.

There was a guided tour Alaska-Ushuaia run by a Finnish tour operator last fall. Almost 30.000kms total in just over 2 months. The customers had their own bikes, a total of 11 including the group leader: 5 Hondas (CBF1000 (2-up!), 700 Deauville, 650/700 Transalp), and 6 BMW´s (650GS twin, 800GS, and one 1150GS).

Funny, but nearly all small glitches experienced on the road (except having flat tyres, and running out of fuel, which happened to everyone several times) seemed to hit the German bikes. Oil oozing from cylinder head cover gaskets, coolant spewing out from hoses, that wouldnt hold, onboard computers that went berserk, and ABS-brakes that varied way too much from one braking to another. A chain on one of the 800´s also snapped while riding, may have been misadjusted, though.

Luckily, those were all kind-of minor worries (except the chain could have smashed something, but didnt)... but the guy with the big GS had his subframe snap into two, plus a broken fuel pump, which needed to be ordered by DHL, and meant transporting the bike on a truck for +1000 kms. It very nearly stopped his trip, but luckily they finally managed to fix it in time.

I think they were quite optimistic about the new 650/800 GS´s, because it turned out that the dealers had no spare parts for them in stock yet, not even in the US. This should get better, once the imports get underway (or maybe already have)...

They all agreed, that the driveability and suspension of the BMW´s was better than the Hondas, but that those first model issues on the new GS´s need to be fixed. For them, especially as they were on a very tight schedule with their trip, having to spend time at the workshop wasnt good.

Personally, I could consider that 800, or even 650 twin, if and when I know that they have those issues no more.

Some of the issues are down to it being a new model. There have been problems with the top radiator hose blowing off (it's taken BMW ten months to announce a fix), crappy chains, faulty fuel sensor, etc. My bike has been recovered on a truck twice, and would have been three times if I hadn't sorted a side stand switch problem myself.

These are things that 'early adopters' maybe should expect, but it would have been soooo much better had BMW not had them.

Longer term issues that could be fixed
- poor design of the side stand (the bike leans over far too much and when loaded can topple),
- centre stand (difficult to deploy),
- side stand foot is minute (falls over in soft ground),
- far too high gearing in 1st and 2nd (why have a close ratio box when there 6 ratios)
- lack of trail readyiness (brake and gear levers don't swivel)
- exhaust sticks out unnecessarily far and cuts into luggage space

Then there's things that can't be easily fixed, such as the underseat tank making the bike wide at the luggage point. This effectively loses you 14 litres of storage space compared to the 1200GS.

Nevertheless it's a fine bike in many other ways and though I have a 1200GSA in the garage, the F650GS is the one I ride most.

Tim

Honestly I don’t care much about the price, as long as it is within certain limits.
But I know a lot of people focus a lot on the price of a new bike, so I have made an example of how much various bikes will cost in Norway if you plan to keep it for 4 years.

The secondhand value in these examples is for 2005 models with a mileage close to 25kkm. The DL650 is a 2006 modell.
I don’t have the price for insurance for the DL1000 so I’ve used the same price as for the DL650.
The mileage is a bit low, but it was all I can find (no high mileage Suzukis). My impression is that this is in Suzukis favour.
As an example a 2003 DL1000 with 33500 kms has reduced it’s value with 47% and a 2004 1200GS with 74000 kms (more then twice the distance) has reduced it’s value with 32%.

Sadly it’s not possible to get the same number for the F800GS, time will show…

This will not prove anything, but it shows that the price of a new bike is just a small part of the equation. Prices for insurance and the cost of bikes vary in different countries.



Suzuki DL650
Price: 113.900NOK/12798€
Secondhand value: 85.000NOK/9951€ FINN MC - Søk etter motorsykler og mopeder.
Insurance (4 years): 26.312NOK/2956€
Total: 55.212NOK/6204

Suzuki DL1000
Price: 149.900 NOK/16843€
Secondhand value: 112.900 NOK/12685€ FINN MC - Søk etter motorsykler og mopeder.
Insurance: 26.312NOK/2956€
Total: 63.312NOK/7114€

BMW 1200GS
Price: 204.800NOK/23011€
Secondhand value: 156.000 NOK/17528 FINN MC - Søk etter motorsykler og mopeder.
Insurance: 12.332NOK/1386
Total: 61.132NOK/6869€


The 1200GS costs less then 10% more then the 650DL and the DL1000 is more expensive then the 1200GS.
The 650 is also a year newer then DL1100/1200GS so the real differences are even smaller.
I tried to find the same costs for a XT but it was not fair because the XT has changed dramatically in the same years. The DR is not sold here.

I’ll repeat that this material will not be valid in all countries and there are too few bikes to make a good statistic, but I mean it shows that the price of the bike doesn’t tell much. It will be interesting to see how the F800GS fits into this. My guess is that it will not make it as good as the 1200GS but it’s probably a good bike.


When it comes to reliability it’s a bit early to say. A friend of mine has had his bike for 10 months and so far tires, chain, and sprockets is the only things he has changed beside normal services – which he does himself. The bike runs great even in the winter
-24.5°c = -11F
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/kald800.jpg

In the end fun is more important:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/mk.jpg


I’ve tried both the 650DL, F800GS and 1200GS both on road and gravel and none of them are my kind of bike.

Let me get this straight, once you purchase this bike, you've already invested $18k(taxes, panniers, Tourafarkle, etc.) AND you've now committed to basically bringing the bike home-add in another $4k for shipping. You're at $22k BEFORE you even hit the start button or the calculator to calculate your trip costs.

Number two…why are we even debating reliability when you've already spent $22k?? This bike is new…you better be able to put 50k miles/kms without a major mishap…or this is crap!!

The bike better be able to RTW if you're paying that much!!!

But that's the point; one could buy a bike that does the same job for less than half the money - I can get a KLR 650, which is self serviceable, on the road, rtw ready, for $7500 USD. In fact, that's about 1/3, so you could have the bike and do the trip pretty much for what the F800GS would cost. 'Nuff said IMHO. Although I would actually like an F800GS - they look ace. I did, in fact, think of buying one with the diagnostic tool and taking a laptop with me but in the end thought that this was ridiculous and then I did the sums.....

Sean

The mag article that says the R1200GS is the cheapest to own must stick to bikes under three years old or something. An MZ/C90/CG125 bought off e-bay for £300, insured for £50 and if required replaced every 6 months is going to work out cheaper any BMW simply because all the numbers are smaller by a factor of at least 10. OK you can double the cost of a rat if you have to buy a chain, but it's still whole decimal places out.

How come no one is comparing the Tenere BTW? Has fewer of the weird BMW/Electronic bits, costs about 75% of the price and does pretty much everything you could ask for IMHO.

There is also the ****ed/desperate salesman factor. Best value holding bike I ever had was a 2003 Yam XT600E. 15000 miles and 11 months old and it depreciated by £250 because the Triumph salesman had been on the champagne all day and thought I'd be back to buy a Rocket 3 in a few months :innocent:

Andy

Suzuki DL650
Price: 113.900NOK/12798€
Insurance (4 years): 26.312NOK/2956€

BMW 1200GS
Price: 204.800NOK/23011€
Insurance: 12.332NOK/1386

You sure these numbers are correct?? Insuring a DL650 should definitely be cheaper than a 1200GS in most countries, if not for anything else, then because it would cost about half the price of the big GS to replace it, if it´s stolen, or totaled.

Yes, the numbers are correct; they are both collected at the same time and have the same limitations (same company, man 30 years old, living in Oslo, 70% bonus). The prices are from an article where they tested insurance-companies.
The prices are re-calculated every year and the idea is that every type of bike should pay for itself.

I’m sure the test had loads of limitations :-)
But my point is that what you pay for the bike is just a small part of the equation.

When I left for a big trip (50 kkm double Trans Africa, loads of crashes) I had my bike taxed before and after the journey. The difference was 20%, for some other bikes it could have been 50% - or worse.


As I said in my post there are no numbers for the XT (or Tenere) because it’s a new model, it’s hard to know the secondhand value. Same goes for F800GS.
I like the Tenere, and the old XTs kept their price well.

If you remove the insurance-cost (who needs insurance for RTW anyway) the DL1000 will be a bit cheaper then the 1200GS.

But if you get 0,65% discount on the 1200GS the GS is cheaper, so it’s pretty tight! You'll ned 1,1% discount to beat the DL650.