New Yamaha 1200 Tenere
 

Some photos of the new bike:

http://www.bestbikingroads.com/external_photos/st1.jpg

Looks like more of a 1200GS monster tourer than the off road bike many were hoping for . . .

Specifications:

ENGINE

Type: Liquid-cooled, 4-stroke, DOHC, inline 2-cylinder, 4-valve, fuel injected, twin spark engine
Displacement: 1199cc
Bore x stroke: 98 x 79.5 mm
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Firing intervals: 270- and 450-degree points
Max. Power: 80.9kW (110PS) @7,250rpm
Max. Torque: 114.1 Nm (11.6kgf･m) @6000 r/min
Lubrication system: Dry sump, oil tank in crankcase
Fuel supply system: Fuel injection
Ignition system: Twin spark
Starter system: Electric
Transmission system: Constant mesh, 6-speed
Throttle system: Yamaha Chip-Controlled Throttle (YCC-T)
Yamaha D-MODE: 2 modes, Sport (S) and Touring (T)
Traction control: 3 modes, TCS1, TCS2 and OFF
Exhaust System: 2-into-1

CHASSIS

Front suspension: Upside-down telescopic fork, 43 mm inner tube, adjustable preload, compression and rebound damping
Front wheel travel: 190 mm
Rear suspension: Monoshock, adjustable preload and rebound damping
Rear wheel travel: 190 mm
Front brake: Twin 310 mm wave discs, ABS/Unified Brake System
Rear brake: Single 282 mm wave disc
Front tyre: 110/80/19
Rear tyre: 150/70/17

DIMENSIONS
Overall length: 2,250 mm
Overall width: 980 mm
Overall height: MIN：1,410 mm / MAX：1,440 mm
Seat height: Adjustable 835-860 mm
Wheelbase: 1,540 mm
Min. ground clearance: 205 mm
Wet weight: 261kg (includes full oil and fuel tank)
Fuel capacity: 22 litres

Hi Guys,

I must admit the radiator and fan assembly looks somewhat open to damage!

Regards

Reggie AKA The Cameraman

Definately more of a big road tourer...
 

...the front mudguard says it all really!

2010 Yamaha XT1200Z Super Ténéré - Go Beyond

:confused1: How do you mean?

The 260kg wet weight is what makes it a road tourer. Even without oil and fuel that means its 240 kgs DRY !!! ... ridiculous.

Low guard is totally compatible with off road riding and touring: (almost no Dakar bikes run high mudguards anymore)
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photog...-despres-1.jpg

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-c...ar-rally-1.jpg

http://www.motorrevu.hu/img/hirek/aprilia_dakar_2.jpg

261 kl :oops2:

Have we a photo without the pannier hiding the exhaust,,,, It's lkook's a tad on the very large side ?c?

it should be a good big sit up straight road bike....and that's about it, at 261 kl before you put your luggage on it you wont want to be dropping that off road :smartass:

ps I use a low guard on my XR400,it is to help cool air get to the motor .!

Yes mate, 260+ kgs!! ... it sure seems designed to be a cheap competitor to the Moto Guzzi Stelvio, Ducati MultiStrada, Honda Varadero type of pure road "adventure style" bike. Yet another huge "adventure" bike that cant really be taken off road ... Like we need another of those on the market. Wish someone would bother making a 150 kg single to do the job.

I am also changing my X-Challenge to a low fender for the next long ride too - same reason.

Are you sure it is a `cheap` alternative? Do we know prices yet?

I've heard whispers of £12-13k,which would be suicidal !

Andy

I think that at BMW in Germany, they can sleep easy...

They succeeded in building a bike for hard adventure motorcycling (this is what they said) with a 23-lt. only tank, with a radiator exposed to damage risks in the event of falling, with a 19" front tyre instead of 21" as almost everyone expected...
They said it would have been a bike for off-roading that would have brought old glory of the previous Super Téneré back to life, but the result is far from what in general people expected at least on message boards of my Country.
Rumors talk about a price of 15,000 euro (about) here in Italy, but at that price I'd buy a GS1200 ADV...

£13,400 plus a few pounds............


And, you can't test ride it,,,,,

And you have to order it sight unseen........

I've been told by the local dealer that they are expecting a model in the showroom May/June

I can't help but think they made a mistake, a stock 1200GS-A is only £10,745 even with the same extras (well they are stock on the Yam) it's still less than the Super Tenere.

I think, come the winter or early spring 2011 we'll see these going for just under the £10k mark, £9999 to get people buying them. Unless they have something up their armholes, such as someone famous taking them somewhere difficult and getting the show on TV... It's worked before..:innocent:

I actually sorta like it. While it might be too much for single travel it seems to look pretty good for two-up travel. And yes, 260kg is heavy but that's the price one has to pay two-up viability. We've tried several bikes, both big and small, BMWs, Yamahas, KTMs, and ended up with a GS because it seems to be the best bike available for two-up travel.

According to Yamaha it's almost 15.000€ for the so-called "first edition" including panniers.

Ah come on guys what did you expect from a 1200 cc bike ?
Light weight and simplicity in this day and age ?:innocent:

Time will tell whether it's a winner or not .
But dedicated long distance touring types like HU are in a minority ,and Yamaha cannot cater to such a small market ,I bet the bike will sell in large numbers just like the GS , VStrom ,Varadero etc and be just as good if not a better road bike.
Personally , I too wished it was more like the KTM 950/990 adv bikes .
[But at least it has a double sided swing arm - no final drive problems hopefully !]


Ah well !
Maybe they'll bring out a 750/800 twin .:blushing:

Has shades of the Varadero look about it. This is NOT a good thing!

Hardly surprising, really.

Most members on HUBB are like-minded so it's easy to forget that what we value as qualities in a bike are way down the list for the majority of the potential customers that Yamaha hope to sell their bike to.

Sad but true: the needs of an overlander are of little consequence to the big bike companies: the relatively recent releases of the Tenere, and 800GS are fortunate in that they seem to meet many of our criteria. The DL650 was definately a road-bike that happens to be capable off-road: I doubt Suzuki had overlanding or any serious off-roading in mind: we were lucky!!

I think we need to get used to the idea that every new Dual Sport bike that comes out will not have dirt on the mind, and we will keep having to tweek our bike of choice to meet our needs.

Everything is subjective, including whether or not a bike is suited to two-up travel. I'm sure the guy who rode two-up from the UK to South Africa on a cg125 would have something to say about a 260kg machine being neccessary for two-up travel. All depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it (and how bothered you are about ending up with a sore arse!).

I can't see how it would be a serious rival to the big BMWs, surely the 'Tenere' brand name doesn't pull anywhere near as much weight as 'GS' with the LWR-wannabes?

That will depend upon the marketing and PR guys , maybe they will get Bear Grylls to take Ray Mears in a sidecar RTW with only a helicopter for support :eek3:.

If I was going to blow 'big money' on a bike, this would be it !!

Norton Commando 961 SE (2009-current) - MOTORCYCLE REVIEWS AND TESTS


:thumbup1:

For me, I'd quite fancy a Charade

:funmeterno: Now you're talking !

Silly me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nono:

:funmeteryes: hahahahaha !

[what a pillock I am ]

Suzuki almost does: DR650SE weighs about 165kg, but I think that might be dry. Pity you can't buy it in Europe any more. They are still selling here in NZ for about 4300 Euro.

Mine has done over 190k now, first clutch and cam chain, little maintenance. But, :offtopic: now...

Lesson of the thread is...............

Start filling your garages with DR650's, DRZ400's, old Teneres, Africa Twins etc etc

Keep them running, keep them nice and they will be gold dust in 20 years time when someone wants to take a bike around a world without a IT technician, a sidecar full of Maplin/Radioshack spares and a laptop.

It won't be long before Grant has to add a section on "Places to recharge your bike on the road"

My DRZ400(E) weighs in at 146.5 "fuelled & tooled"
That’s "Trail Ready" with full tool packs on back and front; spanners, spare levers, inner-tube, pump, tyre levers, pruning saw(W.T.F.?) etc, etc and 11.2 litres of fuel.

Add another 20kg with the 28lt tank fitted and filled.

Minimalist luggage and loaded at 30kg

Then another 110 odd kg for me suited and booted and you've got 300kg struggling to stay gripped on a diesel-slicked, wet road on knobblies !!!

I'd love a DR650 but good ones in the UK are like Rocking-Horse Poo

Daft rider, smart bike?
 

After my previous, apparently daft coment re the mudgard:oops2:

:stupid:

can I now feel slightly better about my overland bike knowledge (or lack there of) knowing that I have two low mileage DR650's prepped to leave for RTW 8 weeks today?:offtopic::funmeteryes:

Matt

Don't feel stupid.... Low mudguards are fine in sand and in the dry. They keep the sand out of your face and do offer better protection obviously.

But, they do still clog in thick gloopy mud and you can jam rocks between your tyre and low guard. High guards are still favourable in those conditions.

ALL proper offroad bikes come with high mudguards and its not just for image..

It's personal preference for the tyre of riding you're going to do !! High mudguards are flappy at high speed and caus aerodynamic issues so thats why you won't really see them on bikes which are really made for the road, just like the 1200 tenere, the BMW GS's , Africa Twins etc.

Yep, the Dakar rally is not famed for an abundance of boggy mud holes!

I take it on modern bikes with USD forks a low mudguard would attach to the fork legs rather than the stanchions so there wouldn't be an 'unsprung weight' argument? I bet a low mudguard has two benefits to a watercooled bike - Not only better airflow to the radiator, but less mud being flung at it (the radiator) from the front wheel. But I reckon on most aircooled dirtbikes the high level mudguard provides better airflow to the cylinder and head.

How about a low mudguard that is quick detatchable.

A couple of mates went to Morocco one on GSA & One on new Tenere. The Ten' had issues with the front end getting clogged with mud and locking the wheel. I had a similar problem in my trials bike in some really snotty clay but my mate's mudguard is about half an inch further from the wheel and he was uneffected.

My DR. Zed mudguard wobbles around a lot less since I fitted a plastic acerbis brace. It still makes the bike weave a bit when flat out though (at least I think that's what does it)

EXcellent comments. It's true, we are virtually invisible in the market, even with the Ewan & Charlie hype, when it comes down to it, they are still building mainly a bike with an image, not a bike to really performs off road. Not that it's not capable, just does not seem to have been the #1 priority for Yamaha.

Still, at least Yamaha long ago learned how to build a reliable shaft drive and transmission, something BMW still struggle with even today. Any looked at the torque output of this monster? Huge, yet only 80 HP. :innocent:

But as a comfy, two up tourer for easy dirt roads the Tenere' 12 will hit the spot for many. And like BMW and Harley, Yamaha will sell millions in aftermarket add on's, doo-dads for the bike. They are simply riding BMW's coat tails on this one. (can't blame them)

Quite true about the Wee Strom. Total accident. Never intended for off road. But Suzuki build some of the lightest bikes in the world, and simple and reliable as well. (just not pretty!)

Most ADV types in the US are hoping Yamaha will jump into this Adventure thing with both feet. The first thing we want is a revised 660 Tenere' single. New, lighter, more modern motor, knock off about 30 lbs. min. and then bring it to the USA. Very nice bike. Strong, cool looking, just too heavy for serious off road use. (even though many do it anyway)

Look at the demographic of those who will actually BUY this bike ... and not just talk about it. For them, it's easy to spot a good two up bike. And I guarantee Yamaha are in touch with those mostly 50 to 65 year old riders who will be buying this bike.

Yea, right. For those whose Dakar knowledge only goes as far back as KTM .... well yes, that may be true. And in Pop culture many believe BMW "invented" adventure bikes. But Yamaha has a few cards to play here if they so chose.

Do some research. Look and see which company are the number one all time winner of the Dakar. That'd be Yamaha. What bike? The Tenere' of course! :D It was a 850cc TDM motor.

And by the way .... back then the races were far tougher than what we see today. Most have no idea about this.

Read interviews with Stephane Peterhansel (Yamaha's factory rider for a decade who has most wins on the Tenere') and some of the old timers. Find out the true history of the Dakar.

Yamaha has ignored the Dakar connection for a decade and let KTM and BMW have their fun. Now we may see the giant raise its head and Crush the orange interloper! :cool4: (well, we can hope!)

Actually the true dry weight of the DR650 is just 147 kgs. (324 lbs.) DRY.
Wet weight is 367 lbs. (166 kgs.) WET. (stock fuel tank)

But the best elements about the DR650 (and why Ted is right about buying them up while you can) is that the DR650 is so Squat Toilet simple. Air/Oil cooled, Carb'd, reliable and tough as a Hammer.

Suzuki is rumored to be discontinuing this bike ... but who knows. Once they do .... their values will no doubt shoot up. I now have two! KLR sold (cheap)

For Yamaha, they need to bring us a simple Adventure bike in the USA.
Probably not going to happen, at least not soon. Someone said the 1200 Ten is not being imported to the US?? Yam dealers are gonna crow loudly about that one! :smiliex:

low fenders
 

A low fender is easily moved further out from the tyre. I see Touratech have a couple of tiny simple adjustor plates that do that for the F800 ... so that the fender is 2 inches off the outside of brand new knobblies ... simply changing the spacing of the low fender pretty much cancels the mud and clogging argument ... you couldnt ride a bike with 2 inches of mud on the outside of the knobblies, even with a high fender.

http://www.touratech.com/shops/008/i...200-0_I_01.JPG

hey Mickey, I think you can give up on Yamaha mate ... they seem to be building adventure bikes to consume maximum amounts of steel. If they were serious about his Adventure thing, the bikes would be much much much lighter. The Tenere is the heaviest single cylinder bike on the market, and probably the heaviest single ever built. And now this fat piece of super tenere lard ... it must be the heaviest adventure bike of any description ever brought to market, in the entire history of mankind. If Caterpillar built an adventure bike, it would be lighter than this! The only fit purpose for this "thing" on dirt roads will be to put a slick on the back and give it to road construction gangs as a backup dirt roller.

So two records for Yamaha and their assorted Teneres on their return to this Adventure thing ... records for weight!

If they wanted to be both serious and go into an empty segment of the market, they should work on making a 135 kg, 30 litre capacity adventure version of the WR 450 .... looking something like this: (note, this bike in the pic has a fuel capacity of an incredible 35 litres, and weighs 126 kgs)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...00_3410blu.jpg

Well, I think the ST1200 is a damn fine piece of engineering and I'm gonna buy one as soon as it's been out for about a year and the first release gremlins are sorted - really, I think it's terrific.

It would be nice to see the manufacturers building an off the peg travel bike but actually, I really enjoy turning a non overlanding bike into an overlander !

Yeah its expensive and a pain at times.. But there's something nice about riding something you have adapted and built yourself !!

It's a bit of an A-Team thing !! :rofl:

Hahahaha you know Ted, I think you are probably right. If you could buy the perfect bike off the rack, and if everybody else had one too, it just wouldn't be the same.

I guess we have got used to the mentality that you need to build (rather than buy) the ultimate adventure motorcycle, and for me, its become almost as much a part of the fun as the riding. Its become an essential part of the process.

Of course you could (and many people do) tour on a stock bike, but there would be something less satisfying in that for me.

Its a good point you have made!

The Dakar connection is a very valid one ... back in the good old days (like the early 1990s) when Yamaha did well in the Dakar, the adventure bikes on the market were very different. They were all MUCH closer to what actually raced in the Dakar. The Tenere's were sub 160 kgs (back in the 1980s they were sub 140 kgs). Cagiva, who also did well in the Dakar, sold the 750 and 900 Elefant complete with their Dakar lucky strike livery, and again the Adventure bikes in the showrooms were much much closer to the Dakar race bikes than anything now. Even BMW with bikes like the 900RR in the Dakar were much closer to production adventure bikes than anything now.

Its Yamaha that should take note ... and note that the difference between a good, fit for purpose Adventure bike and a Dakar bike (as per their own glorious past) is actually relatively small. A detuned more reliable engine, a softer suspension, a decent seat, luggage carrying capability, regular instruments ... that about it really.:cool4:

I thought the F650 Dakars held that honor? A F650 Dakar with no luggage weighs in at around 425 lbs. (193 kgs.) wet. The 660 Tenere' claims to be
403 lbs. (183 kgs.) Dry., probably about 440 lbs. full of fuel. So the BMW is lighter, but not by much.

Reports I've read claim excellent handling off road for the Tenere' and I know you've seen Jmo's reports. So it may be heavy but in stock form I'd say it's more sorted than the Dakar or current G650 BMW single.

I think you're being a bit hard on Yamaha. Yamaha can build any bike they choose. In this case they see the market for the Tenere' 1200 as folks who won't likely being doing much off road at all, but want that image and most of all want a comfy Torque monster that looks the part and can cruise the highway at 100 mph, two up. In any case, it's no heavier than either the early 1100GS or 1150GS, which are 70 lbs. heavier than the R1200GS.

I agree with you. It would be nice if they did a nice Enduro bike based on the WR450, not a $50,000 Dakar racer as pictured, but an upgraded WR250R, perhaps with a "Dakar" package offered?
I hope you don't expect two wheel drive?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...00_3410blu.jpg[/quote]

Lets all forget buying off the peg new travel bikes. It's never going to happen. It hasnt really existed since the 90's has it ?? The Africa Twin, dommy, transalp and R100's dissapeared years ago in any real travel format.

I was playing with the idea of starting a business specializing in off the peg overland bikes. Basically buying a load of low milage or well maintained "base package" bikes and doing all the relevant servicing and prep work for people who can't be bothered or don't have the knowledge.

Just the basics such as a bigger tank, bash plate, luggage frames, touring screens, footpegs, fitted for spares etc.

Then I realised the market is sooooo small and that real travellers are usually very penny pinching and involved, that I would be lucky to even make my money back let alone taking even a small profit for my time.

My point being, these big expensive "Adventure" bike arn't aimed at travellers at all. They are aimed at men who just want to look at one in their garage and dream or fantasise that they arn't locked to their 9-5, 2.4 children , morgage and car payment life !!

I used to work for a large chain of Motorcycle dealerships as a salesman.. I have dealt with hundreds of such people !! It's a skill you need in bike sales... To play to a mans dreams ! Be it to rekindle their youth or whatever....

That's not a bad thing, everyone is allowed a dream of escapism !

I don't know why I let myself get worked up about it all... :innocent:

177 kgs dry the Dakar, and 175kgs for the smaller wheeled 650GS

2005 BMW F 650 GS Dakar specifications and pictures

They are fat, but not as fat as the Tenere. I would say the Dakar has a much more sorted engine. Neither the Tenere nor the Dakar have great suspension, but I would point out that many Dakars have gone round the world with stock suspension and loaded up. Doesnt mean they handle well, sure. But at least they have a track record.

Jen's Tenere is a bad example for illustrating the quality of Tenere suspension. There is nothing stock about her suspension at all. On the front she has aftermarket triple clamps, a KTM front wheel, and WP forks. The entire front end has been replaced. At the back she has an aftermarket shock, spring and wheel. Of the entire suspension, front and back, only the swingarm is a Yamaha part.

Compared to the Dakar, which has been around since 2001, the Tenere is heavier, taller, makes less power, uses more fuel. Quite literally, its 10 years out of date.


How much is a WR450 in the US? 7,000? Maybe it would cost another $1000 - $1500 if you made an adventure version in the factory. Its mostly plastic tanks and panels. Detune the engine a touch, slightly different suspension and a better seat and subframe. A Dakar bike is only $50,000 because everything has to be custom made. Make plastic panels and tanks in the factory and they are practically free.

:offtopic::offtopic:

Straying off topic here .... sorry all!

Wet weight is as I quouted. 425 lbs. (193 kgs.) I think the new G650 is about the same. Really not bad when considering all the extras it comes with. ABS, F.I. center stand and more. Nice, comfy, easy to ride bike. But my DR650 is only 425 lbs. and that with all luggage on board, 5 gallons of gas, and at about half the price!

Seems the 660cc Yam motor has been around a long time. We never got the bike in the US, but I see the XT and 660 seem to be pretty popular in the UK and EU. Quite a few fans of it here on HUBB, no? It's not economical compared to BMW but pretty reliable according to some here.

I have read a lot of RTW reports with the F650/Dakars with plenty of problems on those reports. In fact your buddy Tony had his shock mount break off, which has happened on several others as well, no?

I'm sure XT/660 reports show some negatives too but can anyone ever match that Smelly Biker guy? The F650's & Dakars lose it for me just based on batteries/overcharging problems and bearings alone!

I don't know a thing about her bike ... maybe she can chime in here. She seems quite capable of pleading the Tenere' case! :innocent: But if the Tenere' needs all that to be rideable then that is a big disappointment to me. I wonder what her loaded up bike weighs? Guess I'll be sticking with my old, out dated Japanese dinosaurs for the time being.

Yea, $7000 is about right, although MSRP is about $8000. A true adventure bike would have to be a lot stronger than a stock WR450, which is really a race bike. Seems to me the frame and sub frame may have to be re-worked some for luggage carrying ability. Be a shame if they ended up with another Piggy Tenere'! As you say, better seat would have to be worked in somehow too.

The WR250R is a good example of what can be done. It's 40 lbs.(18 kgs.)heavier than the WR250F (race version). But it is amazing to see how much crap guys are able to carry on the WR250R on tour. ADV rider has huge threads specific to this bike. Impressive reports, most all good. Full street legal bike with all road based electrics. Don't know anyone who has done RTW on a WR250R, but that is bound to happen.

The WR250R however is not very snappy compared to the the WR250F but has great gearing for highway, is well suspended stock and can go 85 mph, and with F.I. gets amazing MPG. (60 to 70 mpg) The WR250F (race bike) tops out (stock gearing) at only 60 mph, sucks gas but is faster and has better out of the box suspension, and 40 lbs. less weight.

But the WR450F would be the perfect place to start. Big tank, sub frame, F.I., wider seat and leave the rest up to the owner. Minimalism is best. I feel there is a good chance Yamaha will actually do this as the WR250R has been a big seller in the USA so far. With taller gearing the WR450 adventure bike could be the real deal. Reliable, packable and touring capable.

But for me, much of life on the road is simply long range road droning and some of this is just plain sitting there ... all day, day after day.
This is where my ancient DR650 Suzuki seems OK. It's comfortable and can be ridden 10 hours a day. Off road, not bad once set up. No, I can't attack a rock section like on my race bike, but I can make it through. Does anyone really ride in attack mode when loaded up with a full complement of luggage? I've seen what happens to the KTM guys when they do this in Baja.:helpsmilie: Bent wheels! Broken radiators and usually a broken collarbone or two! I love KTM's .... would never own another. Young hot shots bike!

Compromises everywhere I guess.

Mcn
 

Super Tenere is in the copy of MCN I just picked up ,.... lets see what they say. Journalists always love these big trail bikes ... and never criticise them, since the bike companies would stop giving them free bikes if they did

It's probably a damned fine bike; I am amazed at the inverted snobbery on this thread.

Many riders of my vintage grew up modifying bikes and keeping them running without dealers - maybe it's just that now we want to simply ride the bloody things, not build them or work on them so much.

It's not a road bike, or an enduro, it's an adventure tourer; it will handle rougher roads very well and be safe and comfortable on the tarmac.

The price is a bit steep but I'd buy one over a GS any day of the week and twice on a Saturday. And I'm gonna.

I was just reviewing the photos on the first couple pages and noticed it said:
"1st Edition" In a not so subtle way, Yamaha may be revealing a long term commitment here to this model. This opens the possibility of significant up grades every year or two ... a la the latest sport bikes. (IE : 2nd Edition!)

No longer can a company just ignore a bike. Bikes now require constant upgrades beyond "Bold New Graphics" to make it fresh every year, changes to solve "problems" and of course more features and even more aftermarket farkles. Yamaha know well how to do this but it's expensive.
But if you read everything about the latest YZ450F or R1, you see just what incredible innovation they are capable of. If the 1200 Tenere' gets even half of this attention it could be a world beater.

I'm thinking this bike will take a good sized bite out of BMW, KTM and Suzuki's market share in the Adventure bike segment. There is risk because trends shift, classifications morph and re-form into all kinds of weird hybridized incarnations. We are a very fickle bunch.

Look at the Aprilia Desoduro or latest Multistrada and or HyperMotos KTM 950SE or SMR. The adventure touring landscape is clearly in flux. IMHO, giant adventure bikes popularity may be on the wane unless lots of creative innovation and marketing are employed ... and soon.

BMW's big GS is losing ground to its own F800GS, Vstrom sales are very slow (Vstrom fans are fed up with a great bike that has never, ever got any love from Suzuki .... talk about blowing it). KTM's are too expensive and still have mechanical issues that should have been purged years ago. At present KTM future is in question. Very thin ice. And why haven't KTM produced a mid-sized Adventure Twin to compete with the F800GS? Something with 20% less weight and better performance??

Another interesting potential player here could be Triumph and the rumored 675cc Tiger Cub Enduro. If done right, it could trump the F800GS
and leap frog everyone in one go. Triumph are perfectly placed to do this, and I hope they jump in.

If BMW put half the effort into a new Adventure bike that they've poured into the SS1000 they could dominate. Will they? :innocent:

Honda? WTF is up with Honda? They had the world by the balls and just let it all go. Imagine a totally modern Africa Twin? Lightweight modern twin motor in super light Ally chassis, top shelf suspension. Could be real competition for Yam's 1200 Tenere' and everyone else. Instead we get the Rune' and other Jackass inspired cruisers that go no where.

Is that such a bad move from Honda's point of view? In almost every biking category, buyers want performance and handling, in a package that excites them, aesthetically.

Cruisers are one segment where handling and performance are not such a big consideration; looks are the deal-closer.

On top of that, as we've sort of established the buying population are often very interested in the image projected.

An image based market that sells on looks not corner speed and chassis tech and weight is not an issue: far lower R&D costs in my opinion and usually quite a big retail price tag....

Sounds like a winner for H, to me....

Since when has being critical of weight on a bike become "snobbery"? All the criticism of the bike in this thread is directed at the weight. Thats one fact about it that we know. Whether is a "damned fine" bike or not, will sell or not etc, is pure speculation. But what we do know as fact is the weight.

The weight appears ridiculous. Consumers being critical of weight is the only thing that will keep the manufacturers focussed on it.

I can say with confidence that the weight is too high ... because we know the weight. Its a fact. How you can say with confidence "it will handle rougher roads very well" is a little beyond me ... that's pure speculation. Wanting Adventure bikes to be lighter is hardly "unreasonable" bias. Making a claim about how well a brand new untried and tested 240kg bike will handle rough roads, sight unseen, simply because you may be a fan of the brand strikes me as an "unreasonable" claim.


Mickey has raised very good points about manufacturers either going in a different direction to consumers or trying to "steer" consumers towards larger, heavier bikes because they are more profitable. Its up to the consumer to be more discerning. BMW will not make an adventure version of the 800 for example because it is BMW policy that the only bike to be promoted as being capable for round the world travel is the 1200. KTM want to spend money upping the 990 Adventure to a 1190 Adventure rather than spend money developing a lighter simpler 690 Adventure, because an 1190 would cost loads more. Again its manufacturers trying to develop larger heavier more complicated bikes despite no-one with a 990 screaming for 200cc more, and despite hundreds of customers around the world screaming for a 690 Adventure. The jury is out on whether they should build to meet demand or rather build according to pre-determined marketing policy is best in the long run. But certainly pretty much all the manufacturers operate on the "if we build it, they will come" approach, rather than specifically trying to meet existing buyer demand. i.e. they are trying to create demand, rather than meet existing demand.

If consumers are not discerning about weight (for right or for wrong) then one thing I do know, is manufacturers will make these 'tanks' (Varadero, Multistrada, Stelvio, Tiger) even bigger.

As for the points about the effort and resources brands put into developing bikes, I can tell you it costs infinitely more to develop a new sports bike than to develop an adventure bike. Sports bikes are built to be ultra compact and ultra high tech. They are built with loads of weight saving technology. The money is put into sports bike development because (1) the manufacturers perceive the buyers in that segment as being very critical of those issues and (2) there are a lot more sports bike buyers than adventure bike buyers. They don't perceive adventure bike buyers as being as discerning.

Thats a big part of our problem.

yes the engine is very reliable. Simple, compared to the Rotax, but certainly on the plus side you can say of the Tenere that (1) its very strong ... the subframe looks like its built for carrying a boxes of lead and (2) the engine is very reliable. These points are a good start. If they could make the old engine a bit more modern and fuel efficient, and cut 25 kgs off the bike, we would be getting somewhere.

I have no doubt they could do it. The question is, can they be bothered to do it.

More than any other manufacturers, including BMW and KTM, Yamaha and Honda have the ability to build the best adventure bikes ever ... the ability is there ... the background, the engine development expertise, the technology ... but .... there is no indication (from my perspective) that they want to put any serious resources into it.

I'm not! :helpsmilie:

Seems to me that people tend to push their own agenda ON THREADS LIKE THIS and are dead against other bikes they don't happen to have owned.

FACT - The Yamaha XT family of bikes are simply LEGENDARY in terms of overland adventure. Together with BMW (boxers) they set the standards for all future overland bikes.

The likes of KTM (although fine machines in their own right) do not possess the provenence of Yamaha in this discipline or a long history in producing top notch overland bikes. :eek3: In any case, KTM's are way too expensive in the UK. :nono:

This new bike seem to me to be almost exactly the same as the BMW 1200 GS - too heavy and cumbersome for hardcore offroad travel but perfect for 70% road 30% light trails. I would imagine the bike will appeal to those seeking an alternative to a GS?

The whole brand fanboy routine is pretty boring. You can't argue that it's a good bike simply because it's a Yamaha XT. What has it got in common with the 'famed' XTs of the 80s and 90s? But (and this is going to annoy you and any other XT fanboys even more), surely most of the old XT range were not even very good bikes anyway? - Cheap poor quality suspension and wheels ring a bell, as does broken subframes and dodgy electrics...


Back on topic:
I don't see how this bike offers anything more than the big BMWs? Surely if you want to steal market share from another brand you need to offer something bigger and better. The only thing that seems to set the bikes apart is engine layout, but even that would be a mark for BMW in my mind.

God you guys are a finicky bunch!

This 1200 Tenere has nothing to offer the motorcycling community as an improved enduro for RTW travellers.
All Yamaha's entry into this niche is doing is acknowledging that there is a pot of gold to be shared.

Proof of both of these is Ducati entering this segment.
2010 Ducati Multistrada 1200 First Look - Ducati Street Bike First Look - Motorcycle USA


So why is this Tenere being fretted about on the HUBB? As Ted noted...there isn't and never will be a turn-key solution for the overlander...as our mules have to be special for our finicky needs;)

2010 Yamaha Super Tenere - ADVrider

105 pages of posts(1711 posts)...OMG.

:thumbup1:

Point well taken! It's been a winner for many years. With cruisers image is key. But the fact is .... most of Honda's cruisers have not sold all that well in the last few years. The Rune is discontinued, this after Honda spent 10's of millions in R&D. The new Fury is too new to know how sales will be. The VTX cruiser class that Honda sold for so many years with success, has pretty much disappeared. They are just no longer selling.

Like many of us here I am biased against cruisers, even though I understand the business logic behind their production. I've always liked motorcycles that are actually ridable, that are versatile, stop well and handle. Most cruisers don't, but there are a few exceptions! What I think we will see regards cruisers are new bikes that have the look but actually perform. The Victory sport tourer bikes seem to head in this direction.

The fact is, many cruiser riders are new, inexperienced riders. The good news about that is that some younger riders leave cruisers behind and buy a real motorcycle.

Nothing is perfect ... you cant buy the 950 or the 640 Adventure anymore because they are carburettored, and that means they don't meet emissions rules anymore. So you cant get them in the shop anymore. Sadly KTM is the only major manufacturer who does not seem to have mastered fuel injection yet ...

And its not totally true the Poles had no problems with the bikes ... they had a few - including problems related to the bikes being carburettored in the high altitude of the Pamir. They liked the bikes but to say they were "absolutely thrilled" is a bit too strong. They were complaining privately about the weight of the bikes as soon as they finished. All 3 guys have since sold them. Mac and Mirek have 400s now and Safran has a 200.


- - -


As a footnote, I would just like to say that this is an online forum about adventure motorcycling ... a new bike comes out, and its natural that people with an interest in adventure motorcycles discuss their opinions about it. A lot of people clearly think its way too heavy. A few others seem personally aggrieved by this line of thought. :eek3:

But there are no personal attacks here ... we are discussing a motorcycle for crying out loud. No one is saying if you like this motorcycle you are a halfwit or have a small penis. But if we cant say we don't like the bike and why, then whats the point of discussing it. We can all be like the bike magazines and say every new bike is wonderful, but then there is no integrity in the forum. We're not supposed to be a bunch of cheerleaders are we?

I cant really see how people get offended because someone else doesnt like a motorcycle they like. Its just a lump of rubber, plastic and metal. Its not a person! :confused1:

If "pushing an agenda" is (a) hoping for better adventure motorcycles or (b) being disappointed by this one, then hell yeah, I am guilty.

By the way, what exactly is this "agenda" people who dont like this bike are supposed to be pushing?

Not sure what you're saying when you say the engine layout of the new XT1200 would be "a mark for BMW". Nath, study up on 'yer history their mate! Do you think BMW "invented" the parallel twin?

BMW have never, ever designed or manufactured a parallel twin. The F800 line is designed and built by Rotax, not BMW. Ever notice anything familiar about that F800 motor? Yep, it's a near copy of Yamaha's early XTZ Tenere'/TDM parallel twin 750/850 motor designed in the early 80's. You remember the one? Nine Dakar wins might refresh your memory! :rofl:

The new 1200 Tenere' is a bigger, more modern version of this motor. Yamaha are pretty innovative. Did you know they built a full suspension bicycle in 1973! A friend just bought one off Ebay!! Who knew? :smiliex:

No need to go over the top trying to create an argument from a simple innoccent comment!

Maybe I was a bit vague as you misinterpret what I meant. The biggest difference between the big BMW 1200s and the new Tenere 1200, is the engine layout. Those boxer twins have a massive following, and most people who have owned a BMW will rave on about the 'character' of the engine and other crap like that. They've also been the iconic BMW engine throughout the history of the brand, and they have a reputation for being ultra reliable work horses. And of course there's the supposed lower weight distribution.

Now I personally don't see the appeal of the big boxer twin, and I don't neccessarily agree with the above. But to my mind it's one of the key attractions to the big beemers. I can't see how a new and unproven watercooled 1200cc parrallell twin is going to get people drooling and be the deciding factor to make them choose the Yamaha over the BMW.


The BMW is an established market leader. What does this new Yamaha offer to tempt away customers? I think it would have made more sense for them to make the bike as lightweight as possible, and sell it as a large CC progression from the old 750, or from their current 660. What they've actually done is make it as big and heavy as possible whereby they're competing for the exact same customers as the beemer.

Yeah but Nath...you failed to ask yourself the question...if the difference between the weight of the average rider of the BMW 1200gs' and the Tenere 1200's is greater than the weight difference between the bikes...does the weight difference between the bikes really matter?:)

Have to agree with all your good points Nath. Most riders know nothing about Yamaha's involvement in Dakar or dual sport bikes, which happened long before BMW ever dreamed of the first GS.

But BMW has done really well with an out dated design by good use of slick marketing and constant repetition of their "superior" mantra. Many actually go for this crap. Doing this for over 5 decades BMW have cemented their reputation. The latest Long Way Round films just add to their cache ... and sales in the UK reflect just what a big shove these films have given BMW.

As I said in an earlier post, Yamaha will have a big challenge bringing in new buyers for this new bike or getting BMW riders to jump ship to Yamaha. I also agree Yamaha may be better served pursuing a lighter more adventure based bike.

But the fact is the market (and the WHOLE industry) is changing and I fear Yamaha may have entered into a market segment that may wither and die. Aging demographic, heavy and expensive bike in a very bad economy, unproven (to the uneducated) bike going against the establishment.

Well, I reckon many people thinking of getting a 1200GS Adv will buy this instead.....and who could blame them.

It will probably be very good at the purpose for which it was built.

Adventures means different things to different people; to some, repairing an older bike by the side of the road in a foreign land is and adventure; some other people just want to ride and take the safest, most reliable bike they can.

If it comes to Canada, I'll get one; if not, an F800GS will have to suffice.

Here here. A few days ago I was going to post that I was surprised that this thread wasn't degenerating into the usual "handbags at 5 paces" session of other "which bike" type threads. I think it's great that the vast majority of overland bike travel enthusiasts on this forum are able to dispassionately give and take opinions.

FWIW, my opinion on the new 1200 Tenere: Too fat and heavy, like the other fat and heavy 1100/1150/1200GS/1050Tiger type bikes. Then again, Yamaha are trying to get a foot hold in the Obese bike niche. Good luck to them.

Don't have the cash either.

cheers
Fat Boy:alucard:

Why "who can blame them?"?

Arguably, the 1200GS is a very good bike for the purpose it was built....

Yes, people have complained about 12s, but I am very wary building an opinion based solely on unsolicited opinions. One has no idea how many perfectly satisfied owners are riding around. After all stacks have been sold...

The TEN-12 is heavier than a GSA, and will not hold it's value to the same degree. I have no idea how the TEN-12 will do: I am sure ti will sell, but is it going to devour BM's market share? That is a question of speculation.

Ah, I feel somewhat responsible for this, having stated it earlier, based on the information from BMUU......

The 1200GS-A is, in stock form lighter than the XT1200Z, but the XT comes with all the extras already loaded and included in the weight, whereas the 1200GS-A isn't. ABS for instance is a further 10Kg's! 10Kg's, what's it made from, lead!

So in ABS for the two bikes are, at least on paper about the same.

I think the Yam will sell, but alas not to the likes of me, but it will sell and dealers have already taken orders for them. I think the fact that someone will order a bike, for a considerable sum of money, without seeing it, sitting on it or riding it is in itself in the spirit of adventure. I did with my 660Z, but the money was some £9000 less than what you part with for a 1200Z (OK , I bought mine 2 years ago).

I've noticed some posts having a go at the 660 Tenere, I think if people were to actually experience the ride of one of these, then many of those oppinions and speculations would be put to bed, as they say.


:scooter:

Honestly, I've only seen Jmo & Piglets posts here about the 660 Tenere'. Her comments on the bike pretty much reflect what you're saying. Can you direct me to other owners/ride reports who've actually taken these bike out of the UK or EU?

Alas no, but you shouldn't discount the EU, it's a big place with lots and lots of varied terrain. Many head straight down to North Africa, but Scandanavia, Eastern Europe, Romania etc, they all have challanging stuff.

There was a group (Russ Olivent ????? rings a bell, or something similar) with some XT660Z's that did RTW, and there is a ride report somewhere on this, but I don't know where.

I've done some considerable distance on my bike, and to be honest it's very capable at slow speed technical stuff , soul destroying motorway, and everything in between. Sure it has it's faults (and Yamaha have been very good at resolving them, for me anyway), but the bike came out at under £5k so you expect some parts are 'accountancy' driven. Most can be upgraded for reasonable cost, the suspension can be vastly improved with HyperPro springs (£200ish front & rear), brakes can be tweeked with braided hoses, different pads - just like any other bike.

I've also heard that Yamaha aren't letting anyone near the bike (XT1200Z) at Dortmund, you would think, given the purchasing arrangements, they'd be only to keen to show it off, rather than just looking at it. I don't understand this approach, unless they only have one bike to show around Europe :(

MCN has a write up on this new 1200 yam - this week.(for what its worth - i think bike writers /reporters have a different agenda to many people that ride bikes).

You are dead right mate. They dont want to upset the bike companies so they never write anything bad. They cant afford to (a) [at a personal level] lose the bikes that the bike manufacturers 'lend' them for 3 - 12 months ... (b) [at a business level] risk losing the advertising revenue if one of the manufacturers pulls out of supporting the magazine.

MCN also took a look at the Ducati Multistrada and say its a 'game changer'. In fact if you can read between the lines, they predictably say both bikes are wonderful, but it seemed to me the Ducati got more 'wonderfuls' than the Super Tenere as an adventure bike.

Does that imply the real thoughts of the journos are the Super Tenere is a worse adventure bike than the all 17 inch wheeled Ducati? If so, that would be a grim assessment indeed. :eek3::eek3:

Then again what do these sports bike loving journos know about adventure bikes anyway.?

Not a lot.

Absolutely F**K all. My mate used to work at MCN and he said they mostly made stuff up that they didn't know anything about.

If you look at any of their "Adventure specials" they've done, it's almost just a 2 day trip around Wales or the lake district. While beautiful riding, it doesn't meet the same criteria as the more ambitious trips the hubb is synonymous with.

Send £999 to my P.O box and I'll see what I can arrange !! Don't forget your 1200GS though. !! And don't forget..... It's going to need at least £5000 of extras before you will look cool enough to cope with those tricky gravel carparks at the pub. :innocent:

:offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:


The bikes used for the Dakar-rally has been mentioned several times in this thread.

I find this interesting because some years ago I got the idea that a rally-based bike could be a perfect base for a travel-bike. My thought was that the bikes used in the Dakar rally usually are pretty robust and with a stronger subframe and a different tuned engine it could work very well.

There are a few factors that makes this a bit difficult.

Most bikes used in the rally is extremely rebuild. It's not uncommon that the frame is completely different then stock. It's stronger, has different geometry and might have been built of other types of raw-materials then the stock frames. Swingarm, shock, trippleclamps and forks are also specialized.
The engine is often high modified, blueprinted and consists of a lot of special parts and solutions that's not easy to get.
Basically none of the bikes have been for sale.

During the years the bikes have changed a lot. Quite a bit of the change has happened because the rules in the rally changes and not because the drivers/teams want it. The maximum displacement has been reduced from "free" to probably 450ccm in a few years.
The fuel-range has also been lowered because there is more frequent fuel-stops then it used to be.
It's easier to get the bike serviced because service-cars are more available and they don't use marathon-stages anymore. This leads to bikes more focused towards performance then durability.
This changes are not necessarily suited for a traveler who is looking for a bike.

As I mentioned earlier there is a 450ccm limit on it's way. This year all the professionals had to drive 450ccm or a they could use a bigger bike with a restrictor so it had more or less the same power as a 450ccm. Amateurs could use unrestricted bigger bikes.
I had a pleasant long chat with Ullevålseter (nr 2 in this years rally) and he didn't like the rules at all. He raced with a restricted 690 but next year the rules will probably force him to use a 450ccm. If he use a 450 his costs will raise dramatically because he needs more spare-engines and two mechanics instead of one. He is not sure if he can afford to drive a small-displacement bike.

So where does this lead to?
If you consider to use a rally-bike as a travelers-bike you should know what kind of modifications that has been done to the bike and why they did it. Even if a lot of rally-bikes have a lot of great solutions it might not be suited for your use.

On the other hand it's very interesting to build a travelers bike based on a rally-bike. I enjoyed both the process and the result. :clap:

:offtopic:

In earlier days of the Dakar they had a "marathon class". I believe this class did not allow changing motors or frames and was based more on production bikes.

At end of a stage bikes would be "impounded" and only tires and basic maintenance was allowed. I loved this class but most people never heard of it, as the "unlimited" class got the big names and sponsors.
Older, more normal BMW's did pretty well in this class. This was mid to late 80's up to maybe mid 90's?? Not sure when they stopped it, but to me, more classes like this would be more interesting. Closer to stock production bikes could make good travel bikes or at least we learn from what they do.

Very good point. The new rules totally change the race and means the race bikes will become further from a practical travel bike then ever. More like our California desert racers. Although our California, Nevada and Baja race bikes are actually very close to stock, the motor especially are always nearly stock. Mods are usually suspension, lights. The 450's are getting faster and faster and reliable too.

Some say the new rules might make the racing in the Dakar safer. I know the Dakar organizers hate having so many guys killed. They blame big bikes, too much weight (fuel) and high speeds (120 mph) I don't totally agree with all this but in some cases it seems legit.

I think the motors will be made more reliable over time. Not as fast perhaps, but will last longer. Yamaha already has this figured out. Stock motors will be best. Just like Moto GP, only so many motors are allowed in the season. Now the Dakar guys have to think about "Saving" their motor also. (like a traveler!)

Once a reliable long term 450 is used this could help travelers and might be a decent motor for a travel bike .... some day?

Exactly right! But I believe there are always something learned from racing. We are a small segment, so we have to be clever and creative and pay attention to what is going on and we must find the things they use in racing that might be a good solution for travel/adventure type bike.

No big manufacturer will do it for us, we have to do it ourselves, or rely on guys like you who have built the bike and done the miles for proof that it all works!

I admire your effort. But in the end will a custom built bike really be that much better than a stock DRZ400S ? :innocent:

In some ways you can look at travel bikes as "expendable items". In other words: they get used up, worn out and broken. Sadly, this reflects our wasteful consumer society that throws things away instead of repairing them. But for some (like me) I do not have the funds (and most of all ... no skill or knowledge!) to build a custom Adventure bike.

I can barely find the money for a used bike in decent shape. So for many a cheap bike that does the job without a lot of extra modifications may be best for a travel bike. But everyone does things different, and always depends on your travel style and budget.
Man, I think we ruined this Tenere' 1200 thread! Sorry! :oops2:

I've ordered one !
 

I have an 08 Tenere (like GasUp) and I also have an 09 GSA. I bought the Tenere to go RTW on with SWAMBO on the back.
It was not long before I realised that it was not big enough to go RTW 2 up.

Some may not agree with this but we are not youngsters and neither of us are very light. It is a great bike IMHO that I bought without a test ride. I have had all sorts of bikes (except a pure sports bike) in my near 40 years of riding the majority of which have been Yamahas. Its that this bike is so good that makes me want to get an S10. Its as tough as old boots and unfortunately a tough bike has to be heavy - its a fact that cannot be got round without expensive materials.
Light = thin/flimsy/fragile, many years ago I was a civil engineer and am aware of the properties of mild steel and the same applies to all other materials too. Even the light expensive materials have their drawbacks, they are generally more brittle so they break on a crash and are then useless wheras the heavier mild steel usually bends and can be put back into shape - handy in the back of beyond where it can also be welded without special equipment if need be.

I rather stupidly bought the GSA 9 months ago as there was no real alternative bike of similar luggable capacity that would do lots of tarmac as well as having a reasonable off road ability. I hate this bike, I hoped I would get used to it but no! Its just a tractor with two wheels and I am sick to death of people saying "is this the one Ewan McGreggor .....etc".
I will not be rock crawling or piste blasting with the boss on the back.
Now there is an alternative with a reliable pedigree (the brand - not the bike) and I am going to get one.
There are things I do not like about it already, like the boxes it comes with, if they are the same quality as the ones that Yamaha sell for the XT660Z then they will be getting changed pretty quickly. So like others have said, you buy it then make it suit you.
SWAMBO has virtually orderd me to change the GSA for the XT1200X as I am always whining about the BMW and I have grudgingly (not !) decided to get one.
Its not going to be a desert racer or any other kind of super duper carlos fandango bike. I want a big, solid, tough luggable bike that is reasonable comfortable and reliable. I do not know at this time if that's what I am going to get, but based on Yamaha's previous reputation, I think it's a good bet.
Having said that £13,499 :eek:ouch....

Wow! Careful Ray, the GS BMW SS Politzie will be coming round to deal with you soon! :rolleyes2:
I see a few mistakes you've made here but hey, I've done similar.
You really bought the 660 Tenere' without a test ride? :confused1: Brave man!

Seems to me a quick sit at the dealers with SWMBO on pillion would have solved that issue on the spot. Too small for two, that's clear, no? Great bike for me solo, wish I had one! Hey, you want to send that Tenere' over to California? I'll keep on eye on it for you and you can come over and get guided tours! FREE! Of course, I'll have to ride it once in a while to keep it "healthy":smartass: I only wish Yam would bring the Tenere' here!

I don't buy bikes before extensive test rides anymore. Although being a Beta tester for a Japanese company is certainly far less risky than being one for "other" Euro manufacturers.:innocent:

I bought a first year Vstrom and never had any problems. I also currently own a '07 Triumph Tiger (the first year for this new 1050 model) This was a dangerous move as some bikes got a batch of duff pistons. Mine's been a good one with good shifting, no oil use and awesome power and character.
Sadly, not big enough for two up really unless you and SWMBO are 5'5" or shorter! But I only bought the Tiger after I spent two years doing multiple test rides and studying reams of material on the bike. Damn! Triumph are good! And getting better! I love this bike.

Hey, speaking of Triumph, they are coming out with a new Sports Tourer, something to carry on beyond the old 1200 Trophy in line fours. (remember those?) The 1050 Tiger is also due for an upgrade and they've got a smaller 675 based NEW "Tiger Cub" dual sport coming this year. Triumph are doing some of the most innovative stuff in motorcycling at the moment.

I'd do a private sale of your BMW GS ADV and get the most you can for it. Then buy something cheap and cheerful (Used of course) until the Yamaha XT1200X has done a year or two on the roads and bugs are worked out. I would not buy the first model year. Like the FJR1300, Yamaha made many good upgrades and fixes to the FJR's after a year or two. Give Yamaha a year or two to "fix" and improve the bike, then buy one after some long test rides to confirm with SWMBO.

What to get in the interim? A few ideas:
1. DL1000 Vstrom
2. Aprilia Caponord

Wow, nice one!

No lightweight....... Probably make a good tourer - as in a tall Goldfing !!!!

Just the same old - same old - new stuff........... Modern convention of the UJM idea on a new bike.

One of the reasons I like me old skool bikes (and me TTR600).... Looks like its aimed at the Beemer chappies..... Blah, Blah, Blah.....

SO, thats a non-starter for me anyhow :thumbdown: OTT

I'm sure Ray will be along any minute to rub it in a bit more, but he's just retired, and is heading of RTW, if he hasn't started already! So waiting a couple of years might not be suitable.

I'm not at all sure about the 1200Z, but I took a risk on the 660Z and it has proved itself (to me) to be a very good bike (it'll go places the bigger bikes can't and is happier on the road than the TTR, if the 1200Z has half the ability of the 660 then it'll be a good bike.

I'd like to hope it will be a sell out and redress the balance a little with the Munich Club. Alas at the price tag I think Yamaha have taken a big gamble, unless they are sure it's a GS beater, in which case time will tell.

But those cases!!! Urkh!

:offtopic: - I know but in my "yoof" I remember all kinds of small time British frame builders, Seely, Rickman, Dresda et al putting Jap sports bike engines in hand built frames as the factory ones were rubbish. New sports bikes are so good now and that market has gone but the time I have spent on this site tells me there is a market opportunity for some entrepreneurial outfit in the spirit of the old brit framers but with modern engineering & design techniques to enter this market and make something people actually want.

:offtopic:
Great idea and I would love to see this happen. But very tough to do a custom adventure bike for any sort of reasonable money ... unless you can do it yourself. Not so easy. Also, the adventure travel/dual sport market is pretty small. In the 60's road racing in the UK/USA had gone wild, everyone was into it. Thousands. Really different world today.

At present I've found a very good compromise for a decent "one up" ready made travel bike. The Suzuki DR650 is turning out to be a much better all round bike than I would have ever imagined possible. It's cheap & cheerful to boot, simple as a squat toilet and tough as a Viet Cong sapper. :mchappy:

here here..

Just a shame that good ones are like rocking horse sh*t this side of the pond:(

In theory thats what CCM do ... take engines from engine manufacturers and build a high spec bike with good suspension up around it. They have used DRZ400 engines, and Rotax 650 engines at times ... but they just haven't built a proper adventure bike. They tend to build enduro / trail / supermoto type bikes (just like everyone else unfortunately). They would be the logical guys to petition!

And sadly I suspect as Mickey said, the market is small.

There are plenty of specialist frame builder/fabricators still around doing better quality stuff than was ever done previously, it's just a question of design. There must be one aspiring motorcycle design student reading this? Feel free to chip in...

Since this thread is about Super Tenere xtz1200, I have some information and a video below.
As many people I am dissapointed. I was expecting something different...something lighter...something less expensive.



SUPER TENERE XTZ1200


regards
Antonis

Yeah, its a rubbish bike, here's proof...

YouTube - Yamaha XT 1200Z op noppen.

.......4 days till mine arrives....

I've seen countless videos like that.... I've seen people race Goldwings on trackdays, ride Pan Europeans over a MX course etc etc. It means F**K all.

In the hands of a very skilled rider, i've got no doubt you could do the same on the 1200 Tenere. If you would want to is a different matter altogether.

From what I can tell, its just a BMW1200GS which will hopefully not break down as much ! Plenty of people have done offroading on those for the sake youtube and Marketing companies too. Get the test rider away from the camera and he will no doubt be tearing around the same track on a 450 single or a 250 2-stroke with a big smile on his face.

When you get your 1200 Tenere, if you want to race me over the beach and through the water on my DRZ400 or even down a flight of steps, i'll bet you some decent cash that you wont be even near my back wheel and i'm not anywhere near a pro rider. :D

Blimey.....emotive is'nt it.

Offer respectfully declined....reason....there's a clue in the username and my last competitive ride was on ice in 1978 on a YZ400.
Not sure what prompted a response like that from a tongue in cheek post, but hey, I'm sure you have your reasons.

Kind regards Ray

Edit: Pop in and see me at the Ripley meet. I'll be the one with the motorhome and the Super Tenere.

I think basically there is a lot of jealousy out there; IMHO you've bought an excellent bike and if I could, I would buy one as well. I think many people who criticize this bike don't really understand what it's purpose is - it's an all road bike, not an enduro - why that concept is so difficult to understand is beyond me. For it's intended purpose, I think it's fantastic.