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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
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  #76  
Old 5 Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by GasUp View Post
I've noticed some posts having a go at the 660 Tenere, I think if people were to actually experience the ride of one of these, then many of those oppinions and speculations would be put to bed, as they say.
Honestly, I've only seen Jmo & Piglets posts here about the 660 Tenere'. Her comments on the bike pretty much reflect what you're saying. Can you direct me to other owners/ride reports who've actually taken these bike out of the UK or EU?
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  #77  
Old 6 Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by Mickey D View Post
Can you direct me to other owners/ride reports who've actually taken these bike out of the UK or EU?
Alas no, but you shouldn't discount the EU, it's a big place with lots and lots of varied terrain. Many head straight down to North Africa, but Scandanavia, Eastern Europe, Romania etc, they all have challanging stuff.

There was a group (Russ Olivent ????? rings a bell, or something similar) with some XT660Z's that did RTW, and there is a ride report somewhere on this, but I don't know where.

I've done some considerable distance on my bike, and to be honest it's very capable at slow speed technical stuff , soul destroying motorway, and everything in between. Sure it has it's faults (and Yamaha have been very good at resolving them, for me anyway), but the bike came out at under £5k so you expect some parts are 'accountancy' driven. Most can be upgraded for reasonable cost, the suspension can be vastly improved with HyperPro springs (£200ish front & rear), brakes can be tweeked with braided hoses, different pads - just like any other bike.

I've also heard that Yamaha aren't letting anyone near the bike (XT1200Z) at Dortmund, you would think, given the purchasing arrangements, they'd be only to keen to show it off, rather than just looking at it. I don't understand this approach, unless they only have one bike to show around Europe
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  #78  
Old 6 Mar 2010
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MCN has a write up on this new 1200 yam - this week.(for what its worth - i think bike writers /reporters have a different agenda to many people that ride bikes).
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  #79  
Old 6 Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by adventure950 View Post
(for what its worth - i think bike writers /reporters have a different agenda to many people that ride bikes).
You are dead right mate. They dont want to upset the bike companies so they never write anything bad. They cant afford to (a) [at a personal level] lose the bikes that the bike manufacturers 'lend' them for 3 - 12 months ... (b) [at a business level] risk losing the advertising revenue if one of the manufacturers pulls out of supporting the magazine.

MCN also took a look at the Ducati Multistrada and say its a 'game changer'. In fact if you can read between the lines, they predictably say both bikes are wonderful, but it seemed to me the Ducati got more 'wonderfuls' than the Super Tenere as an adventure bike.

Does that imply the real thoughts of the journos are the Super Tenere is a worse adventure bike than the all 17 inch wheeled Ducati? If so, that would be a grim assessment indeed.

Then again what do these sports bike loving journos know about adventure bikes anyway.?

Not a lot.
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  #80  
Old 6 Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by colebatch View Post

Then again what do these sports bike loving journos know about adventure bikes anyway.?

Not a lot.
Absolutely F**K all. My mate used to work at MCN and he said they mostly made stuff up that they didn't know anything about.

If you look at any of their "Adventure specials" they've done, it's almost just a 2 day trip around Wales or the lake district. While beautiful riding, it doesn't meet the same criteria as the more ambitious trips the hubb is synonymous with.
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  #81  
Old 7 Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedmagnum
...it's almost always just a two day trip around Wales or the Lake District.
Where can I book? I hope it includes a 5* hotel, GPS waypoints, all tarmac, a support vehicle and a tour leader. Still sounds a bit scary though.

Regards, Mick
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  #82  
Old 7 Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by Mick O'Malley View Post

Where can I book? I hope it includes a 5* hotel, GPS waypoints, all tarmac, a support vehicle and a tour leader. Still sounds a bit scary though.

Regards, Mick
Send £999 to my P.O box and I'll see what I can arrange !! Don't forget your 1200GS though. !! And don't forget..... It's going to need at least £5000 of extras before you will look cool enough to cope with those tricky gravel carparks at the pub.
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  #83  
Old 8 Mar 2010
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The bikes used for the Dakar-rally has been mentioned several times in this thread.

I find this interesting because some years ago I got the idea that a rally-based bike could be a perfect base for a travel-bike. My thought was that the bikes used in the Dakar rally usually are pretty robust and with a stronger subframe and a different tuned engine it could work very well.

There are a few factors that makes this a bit difficult.

Most bikes used in the rally is extremely rebuild. It's not uncommon that the frame is completely different then stock. It's stronger, has different geometry and might have been built of other types of raw-materials then the stock frames. Swingarm, shock, trippleclamps and forks are also specialized.
The engine is often high modified, blueprinted and consists of a lot of special parts and solutions that's not easy to get.
Basically none of the bikes have been for sale.

During the years the bikes have changed a lot. Quite a bit of the change has happened because the rules in the rally changes and not because the drivers/teams want it. The maximum displacement has been reduced from "free" to probably 450ccm in a few years.
The fuel-range has also been lowered because there is more frequent fuel-stops then it used to be.
It's easier to get the bike serviced because service-cars are more available and they don't use marathon-stages anymore. This leads to bikes more focused towards performance then durability.
This changes are not necessarily suited for a traveler who is looking for a bike.

As I mentioned earlier there is a 450ccm limit on it's way. This year all the professionals had to drive 450ccm or a they could use a bigger bike with a restrictor so it had more or less the same power as a 450ccm. Amateurs could use unrestricted bigger bikes.
I had a pleasant long chat with Ullevålseter (nr 2 in this years rally) and he didn't like the rules at all. He raced with a restricted 690 but next year the rules will probably force him to use a 450ccm. If he use a 450 his costs will raise dramatically because he needs more spare-engines and two mechanics instead of one. He is not sure if he can afford to drive a small-displacement bike.

So where does this lead to?
If you consider to use a rally-bike as a travelers-bike you should know what kind of modifications that has been done to the bike and why they did it. Even if a lot of rally-bikes have a lot of great solutions it might not be suited for your use.

On the other hand it's very interesting to build a travelers bike based on a rally-bike. I enjoyed both the process and the result.
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  #84  
Old 12 Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
There are a few factors that makes this a bit difficult.
Most bikes used in the rally is extremely rebuild. It's not uncommon that the frame is completely different then stock. It's stronger, has different geometry and might have been built of other types of raw-materials then the stock frames. Swingarm, shock, trippleclamps and forks are also specialized.
The engine is often high modified, blueprinted and consists of a lot of special parts and solutions that's not easy to get.
Basically none of the bikes have been for sale.
In earlier days of the Dakar they had a "marathon class". I believe this class did not allow changing motors or frames and was based more on production bikes.

At end of a stage bikes would be "impounded" and only tires and basic maintenance was allowed. I loved this class but most people never heard of it, as the "unlimited" class got the big names and sponsors.
Older, more normal BMW's did pretty well in this class. This was mid to late 80's up to maybe mid 90's?? Not sure when they stopped it, but to me, more classes like this would be more interesting. Closer to stock production bikes could make good travel bikes or at least we learn from what they do.

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Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
This leads to bikes more focused towards performance then durability. This changes are not necessarily suited for a traveler who is looking for a bike.
Very good point. The new rules totally change the race and means the race bikes will become further from a practical travel bike then ever. More like our California desert racers. Although our California, Nevada and Baja race bikes are actually very close to stock, the motor especially are always nearly stock. Mods are usually suspension, lights. The 450's are getting faster and faster and reliable too.

Some say the new rules might make the racing in the Dakar safer. I know the Dakar organizers hate having so many guys killed. They blame big bikes, too much weight (fuel) and high speeds (120 mph) I don't totally agree with all this but in some cases it seems legit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
I had a pleasant long chat with Ullevålseter (nr 2 in this years rally) and he didn't like the rules at all. He raced with a restricted 690 but next year the rules will probably force him to use a 450ccm. If he use a 450 his costs will raise dramatically because he needs more spare-engines and two mechanics instead of one. He is not sure if he can afford to drive a small-displacement bike.
I think the motors will be made more reliable over time. Not as fast perhaps, but will last longer. Yamaha already has this figured out. Stock motors will be best. Just like Moto GP, only so many motors are allowed in the season. Now the Dakar guys have to think about "Saving" their motor also. (like a traveler!)

Once a reliable long term 450 is used this could help travelers and might be a decent motor for a travel bike .... some day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
So where does this lead to?
If you consider to use a rally-bike as a travelers-bike you should know what kind of modifications that has been done to the bike and why they did it. Even if a lot of rally-bikes have a lot of great solutions it might not be suited for your use.
Exactly right! But I believe there are always something learned from racing. We are a small segment, so we have to be clever and creative and pay attention to what is going on and we must find the things they use in racing that might be a good solution for travel/adventure type bike.

No big manufacturer will do it for us, we have to do it ourselves, or rely on guys like you who have built the bike and done the miles for proof that it all works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
On the other hand it's very interesting to build a travelers bike based rally-bike. I enjoyed both the process and the result.
I admire your effort. But in the end will a custom built bike really be that much better than a stock DRZ400S ?

In some ways you can look at travel bikes as "expendable items". In other words: they get used up, worn out and broken. Sadly, this reflects our wasteful consumer society that throws things away instead of repairing them. But for some (like me) I do not have the funds (and most of all ... no skill or knowledge!) to build a custom Adventure bike.

I can barely find the money for a used bike in decent shape. So for many a cheap bike that does the job without a lot of extra modifications may be best for a travel bike. But everyone does things different, and always depends on your travel style and budget.
Man, I think we ruined this Tenere' 1200 thread! Sorry!

Last edited by Mickey D; 22 Mar 2010 at 19:27.
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  #85  
Old 22 Mar 2010
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I've ordered one !

I have an 08 Tenere (like GasUp) and I also have an 09 GSA. I bought the Tenere to go RTW on with SWAMBO on the back.
It was not long before I realised that it was not big enough to go RTW 2 up.

Some may not agree with this but we are not youngsters and neither of us are very light. It is a great bike IMHO that I bought without a test ride. I have had all sorts of bikes (except a pure sports bike) in my near 40 years of riding the majority of which have been Yamahas. Its that this bike is so good that makes me want to get an S10. Its as tough as old boots and unfortunately a tough bike has to be heavy - its a fact that cannot be got round without expensive materials.
Light = thin/flimsy/fragile, many years ago I was a civil engineer and am aware of the properties of mild steel and the same applies to all other materials too. Even the light expensive materials have their drawbacks, they are generally more brittle so they break on a crash and are then useless wheras the heavier mild steel usually bends and can be put back into shape - handy in the back of beyond where it can also be welded without special equipment if need be.

I rather stupidly bought the GSA 9 months ago as there was no real alternative bike of similar luggable capacity that would do lots of tarmac as well as having a reasonable off road ability. I hate this bike, I hoped I would get used to it but no! Its just a tractor with two wheels and I am sick to death of people saying "is this the one Ewan McGreggor .....etc".
I will not be rock crawling or piste blasting with the boss on the back.
Now there is an alternative with a reliable pedigree (the brand - not the bike) and I am going to get one.
There are things I do not like about it already, like the boxes it comes with, if they are the same quality as the ones that Yamaha sell for the XT660Z then they will be getting changed pretty quickly. So like others have said, you buy it then make it suit you.
SWAMBO has virtually orderd me to change the GSA for the XT1200X as I am always whining about the BMW and I have grudgingly (not !) decided to get one.
Its not going to be a desert racer or any other kind of super duper carlos fandango bike. I want a big, solid, tough luggable bike that is reasonable comfortable and reliable. I do not know at this time if that's what I am going to get, but based on Yamaha's previous reputation, I think it's a good bet.
Having said that £13,499 ouch....
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  #86  
Old 22 Mar 2010
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I rather stupidly bought the GSA 9 months ago as there was no real alternative bike of similar luggable capacity that would do lots of tarmac as well as having a reasonable off road ability. I hate this bike, I hoped I would get used to it but no! Its just a tractor with two wheels and I am sick to death of people saying "is this the one Ewan McGreggor .....etc".
Wow! Careful Ray, the GS BMW SS Politzie will be coming round to deal with you soon!
I see a few mistakes you've made here but hey, I've done similar.
You really bought the 660 Tenere' without a test ride? Brave man!

Seems to me a quick sit at the dealers with SWMBO on pillion would have solved that issue on the spot. Too small for two, that's clear, no? Great bike for me solo, wish I had one! Hey, you want to send that Tenere' over to California? I'll keep on eye on it for you and you can come over and get guided tours! FREE! Of course, I'll have to ride it once in a while to keep it "healthy" I only wish Yam would bring the Tenere' here!

I don't buy bikes before extensive test rides anymore. Although being a Beta tester for a Japanese company is certainly far less risky than being one for "other" Euro manufacturers.

I bought a first year Vstrom and never had any problems. I also currently own a '07 Triumph Tiger (the first year for this new 1050 model) This was a dangerous move as some bikes got a batch of duff pistons. Mine's been a good one with good shifting, no oil use and awesome power and character.
Sadly, not big enough for two up really unless you and SWMBO are 5'5" or shorter! But I only bought the Tiger after I spent two years doing multiple test rides and studying reams of material on the bike. Damn! Triumph are good! And getting better! I love this bike.

Hey, speaking of Triumph, they are coming out with a new Sports Tourer, something to carry on beyond the old 1200 Trophy in line fours. (remember those?) The 1050 Tiger is also due for an upgrade and they've got a smaller 675 based NEW "Tiger Cub" dual sport coming this year. Triumph are doing some of the most innovative stuff in motorcycling at the moment.

I'd do a private sale of your BMW GS ADV and get the most you can for it. Then buy something cheap and cheerful (Used of course) until the Yamaha XT1200X has done a year or two on the roads and bugs are worked out. I would not buy the first model year. Like the FJR1300, Yamaha made many good upgrades and fixes to the FJR's after a year or two. Give Yamaha a year or two to "fix" and improve the bike, then buy one after some long test rides to confirm with SWMBO.

What to get in the interim? A few ideas:
1. DL1000 Vstrom
2. Aprilia Caponord
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  #87  
Old 22 Mar 2010
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Wow! Careful Ray, the GS BMW SS Politzie will be coming round to deal with you soon!
Wow, nice one!
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  #88  
Old 22 Mar 2010
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No lightweight....... Probably make a good tourer - as in a tall Goldfing !!!!

Just the same old - same old - new stuff........... Modern convention of the UJM idea on a new bike.

One of the reasons I like me old skool bikes (and me TTR600).... Looks like its aimed at the Beemer chappies..... Blah, Blah, Blah.....

SO, thats a non-starter for me anyhow OTT
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  #89  
Old 23 Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by Mickey D View Post
until the Yamaha XT1200X has done a year or two on the roads and bugs are worked out.
I'm sure Ray will be along any minute to rub it in a bit more, but he's just retired, and is heading of RTW, if he hasn't started already! So waiting a couple of years might not be suitable.

I'm not at all sure about the 1200Z, but I took a risk on the 660Z and it has proved itself (to me) to be a very good bike (it'll go places the bigger bikes can't and is happier on the road than the TTR, if the 1200Z has half the ability of the 660 then it'll be a good bike.

I'd like to hope it will be a sell out and redress the balance a little with the Munich Club. Alas at the price tag I think Yamaha have taken a big gamble, unless they are sure it's a GS beater, in which case time will tell.

But those cases!!! Urkh!
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  #90  
Old 23 Mar 2010
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- I know but in my "yoof" I remember all kinds of small time British frame builders, Seely, Rickman, Dresda et al putting Jap sports bike engines in hand built frames as the factory ones were rubbish. New sports bikes are so good now and that market has gone but the time I have spent on this site tells me there is a market opportunity for some entrepreneurial outfit in the spirit of the old brit framers but with modern engineering & design techniques to enter this market and make something people actually want.
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