BMW Dakar Vs F650GS

[PimpYoda]

Hi..

I'm a newby to the forum and very excited about the prospect of travelling from London - Cape Town in the near future.

I'm looking to buy a bike that would make the journey without too many problems. Seeing as I just started doing research and very ill informed I was wondering if anyone can explain the difference to me between BMW's Dakar and the F650GS.

I have kind of set my mind on doing the trip on a Beemer but seeing as they do not make the Dakar anymore I was wondering what I need to change on the F650 to make it a Dakar.

Your help is much appreciated.

[uganduro]

they also don't sell the F650GS any more. It's now a F800GS (two cilinder) which they name F650GS, surprisingly.

Buy a secondhand F650GS Dakar and be happy about it.

[Threewheelbonnie]

Google the "chaingang" for lots of F650 info. The bikes come in various forms:

Funduro 1993-99 chain drive single with carbs
CS 199?-2000 belt drive single with carbs (you don't want one, they are city bikes)
GS 2000-2008 an FI Funduro with the tank moved under the seat.
Dakar, a GS with 21" front wheel.
F800, 2008 on, FI twin 800cc
F650, 2008 on, an F800 with various changes the main one being a down tuned motor.

I assume you are looking at the Single Rotax GS versus the Dakar? The big difference is the front wheel size although some people claim the Dakars came with longer life shocks etc. Neither are current production.

I had two carbed F650's between 1995 and 2003. The first one was great, the second one died in Morocco from the waterpump failure you'll read plenty about on the chaingang site. All the rotax bikes have this potential problem so research it and carry the spares. Personally I'd go with the Dakar unless I was offered a Funduro with the Acerbis 27 litre tank.

Why a BMW? If it's the marketing about reliability, you want an R80GS. The F650 was designed by Aprillia and Rotax who taught BMW everything they now know about cheap plastic and monkey metal. Personally, if you are early in your decision I wouldn't discount anything. In particular I'd reccomend Yamaha XT's, that's the bike that I replaced the F650 with, they do everything pretty much the same but were cheaper and honestly better built.

Andy

[PimpYoda]

Why a BMW? If it's the marketing about reliability, you want an R80GS. The F650 was designed by Aprillia and Rotax who taught BMW everything they now know about cheap plastic and monkey metal. Personally, if you are early in your decision I wouldn't discount anything. In particular I'd reccomend Yamaha XT's, that's the bike that I replaced the F650 with, they do everything pretty much the same but were cheaper and honestly better built.

Andy[/quote]


I guess the reason I'm looking at a BMW is that I see a lot of people doing a London - Cape Town jouney on a BMW.

I'd be interested to know which XT you got / would reccommend for a long journey such as this.

[uganduro]

Originally Posted by PimpYoda

I'd be interested to know which XT you got / would reccommend for a long journey such as this.

you could do worse than considering this type of XT:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-sale-uk-36524

XT & TT share a lot , whereby imho the TTRE is one of the best XT's ;-)

[martheijnens]

I travelled with a BMW F650 (Funduro) for 8 month through the Middle East (2001) and did a RTW in 2004/05. In total about 150.000 km. See Welcome to Wonderful Travels. I had some problems but no major ones. This are the advantages of the F650 Funduro:
- easy to handle.
- very reliable Rotax engine.
- carburators which can be maintained and repaired everywhere by people without computers.
- chain and sprockets which are easy to replace; much better than cardan.
- exhaust passes above engine instead of under the engine (better protected against stones).
The main disadvantage for lang distance trips is the small fueltank. I replaced the tank for an Acerbis 25 liter. This fuel tank is not produced anymore.

For my next trip (Capetown, 2009) I bought second hand a similar F650. Because I know and understand this bike. Not because it is "the best". What is "the best"? Each motorbike has its own problems. Comparing BMW with Japanese bikes (Honda, Yamaha), the BMW is a bit more reliable but spare parts are much more difficult to find than for Japanese bikes. Moreover, BMW is not a very responsive company. Don't expect much from them in help. Honda and Yamaha are much more helpful. So, if you don't have a "BMW"-history, think about Japanese.

Good luck, Mart Heijnens

[indu]

Originally Posted by martheijnens

Comparing BMW with Japanese bikes (Honda, Yamaha), the BMW is a bit more reliable (...)

Huh? Really? My impression is quite the opposite. You mention the upsides of Japanese bikes for overlanding, namely spare parts availability and responsive dealerships. My impression is that the Jap singles in general seems more reliable than the BMW's too.

NB: I haven't read or seen any test about this issue (I guess it'll be impossible to conduct such tests), so it's just my impression after having had an F650 and currently riding an XTZ, plus reading a bit here and elsewhere.

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by PimpYoda

I guess the reason I'm looking at a BMW is that I see a lot of people doing a London - Cape Town jouney on a BMW. I'd be interested to know which XT you got / would reccommend for a long journey such as this.

I agree with Andy .... I would look closely at what is going on out there. Sure, you see a fair number of mostly new, inexperienced riders on BMW's, and a lot of them are making movies, writing books and getting BMW sponsorship.

For a more realistic look, take a gander at the breakdown record on BMW's. Not a pretty picture over all. Many tales right here on HU about this very thing. Look up Maria 41's posts.

Don't go with a bike just based on how good it looks or because a few Flash riders have a slick web site (paid by BMW)
and you think it has some "Dakar" race connection. That's a lie too. But you'll learn ..... Your desire for a "Dakar" points to this. It's Hype mate. If you really want to burn money on the over weight and over priced F650, be my guest.

But the more you learn the more you'll figure out that not only is the XT or new Tenere' better but so is the Suzuki DR650 and Honda XR650L (or R) superior, cheaper to maintain and more reliable.

Did you know the F650 weighs about 65 lbs. more than a DR650 Suzuki? (Dry weights) Of course, this means nothing to you. It will, it will ...

Check out Terra Circa and see what they are riding. Real riders, pushing hard and beating their machines. Guess what they are riding? Suzuki of course!

Great movie, BTW. Very non Hollywood approach. Rated R !

Patrick

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by indu

Huh? Really? My impression is quite the opposite. You mention the upsides of Japanese bikes for overlanding, namely spare parts availability and responsive dealerships. My impression is that the Jap singles in general seems more reliable than the BMW's too.

I agree. And also, my impression is that BMW overall, reach out to riders and help much more than any Japanese company I know of. But I'm new at this, just been riding them 40 years.

I've seen BMW cover older bikes out of the warranty period. *(they need to .... since they tend to have more problems!).

Look, the Japanese have been building small, reliable singles for 40 years. They have raced the WHOLE time. Does this tell you anything? When was the last time BMW won anything?
And how many singles have they built? All I can say, its a good thing Rotax built the F650 engine (early ones). Once BMW took it over, some problems came along, no? Rotax are doing really well, witness Aprilia and the new Buell.

The Japanese always are doing serious R&D and evolve their bikes quietly, based on what they've learned from racing and winning. They don't care about BMW (BMW represent less than 3% of total market share world wide) .... but they live to beat the other clan, uh, company. The Samurai culture lives on!

Patrick

[BlackBeast]

I own a F650GS and loved my bike & vowed that I wouldn't replace it for the world. I've spent alot of money getting my bike adv. ready. So when my wife and I committed to do an extended trip, we had to decide, 1 bike or 2 & whether we stick with what I had or try something completely different.
We settled on a DR650 for her, cheap to pick-up, parts & accessories cheap in comparison to a BMW. Easy to maintain as I am not that mechanically minded and I find this bike simple as well. I have been sold on this bike, so much so, we are getting a 2nd one soon. There are many other options similar to the DR.
Imagine how much you could save and add time to your travels!!

[Threewheelbonnie]

Originally Posted by PimpYoda

I'd be interested to know which XT you got / would reccommend for a long journey such as this.

One of the last XT600E's. At that point the TT's too new, but I think have since been proven. I'd also go back to the original Tenere's as you get the bigger tank and kick start.

There is now the issue of age though. For a long trip I'd rate the R80GS and original Tenere above anything made since. They were simple and reliable. BUT, you are now in effect taking a classic bike! I think the second generation of FI bikes like the new Tenere and F650/800 have the potential never to need touching mechanically (hence no worries that you need to know three weeks in advance that it'll break so you can get a loan and book in to the Uber dealer), but this isn't proven. Th first generation FI bikes gave us the horror stories about even the dealers not understanding them (I know of a Guzzi that spent 9 months off road).

I'm riding a Bonneville as I'm getting R80GS/Tenere technology on a 2004 bike. This is fine for me with the sidecar but I don't think the choice is there for a solo unless you do want a road bike.

BMW dealers vary. Alan Jefferies at Shipley I found useless. Rainbow at Rotherham tried but had too much work. Harvey's at Grimsby couldn't do enough for you. BMW Trondheim were great and I've heared many a good thing about BMW Passau. I think this is true for any company, so wouldn't base a choice on the dealer unless I was buying something that was going to be ued within a hundred miles of home.

Hard choice, so like I said in the first post have a good look at what you can get for your money then choose.

Andy

[PimpYoda]

Ok... It seems that BMW may not be the right choice and I thank everyone for their help and sharing their knowledge on this matter.

I didn't want to buy an old bike. I was thinking of spending about £5000 on a good quality second hand bike with not too many miles.

My question to everyone out there... if you were to do this trip to Cape Town in ungodly conditions, you need comfort, you need sucurity, you need reliability, spares, and mostly a bike that you can ride for many years to come....

What would you buy with £5000?? Its Africa....:censored:

[indu]

Originally Posted by PimpYoda

Ok... It seems that BMW may not be the right choice and I thank everyone for their help and sharing their knowledge on this matter.

I didn't want to buy an old bike. I was thinking of spending about £5000 on a good quality second hand bike with not too many miles.

My question to everyone out there... if you were to do this trip to Cape Town in ungodly conditions, you need comfort, you need sucurity, you need reliability, spares, and mostly a bike that you can ride for many years to come....

What would you buy with £5000?? Its Africa....

I'd say a Guzzi Quota, obviously, but then I'm half crazy anyway.

I think this one will suit your needs (I have one myself ;-), the Yamaha XT660Z Ténéré.



Long range (450 km + per full tank), long service intervals (10000 km, 20000 between valve adjustments), built for ease of maintenance, bomb proof proven engine, etc. Price: GBP 4899,- at your nearest Yamaha dealer.

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by PimpYoda

Ok... It seems that BMW may not be the right choice and I thank everyone for their help and sharing their knowledge on this matter.

I didn't want to buy an old bike. I was thinking of spending about £5000 on a good quality second hand bike with not too many miles.

My question to everyone out there... if you were to do this trip to Cape Town in ungodly conditions, you need comfort, you need sucurity, you need reliability, spares, and mostly a bike that you can ride for many years to come....

What would you buy with £5000?? Its Africa....

Your instincts are good, newer the better is a good strategy. Hans has picked a good bike for you, IMO. The new Tenere' will be hard to beat. With BMW, to me, its about value for money. The Yamaha gives you more bike and fewer headaches later on.

The Guzzi idea is OK if you know, love and understand the Guzzi. But still, a bit on the heavy side perhaps?

If set up correctly, you should not need many spares. Tires are your main concern. Expensive and hard to find. Think about mailing them ahead? Or? With bark busters fitted, your bars, levers and instruments will survive a crash. Cables no problem until three or four years out. You may bend a shift lever or punch a hole in a case, or break a tail light, but decent guards can help prevent some of this.

A ton of info on prepping bikes here.

Treat yourself to the Tenere' and spend the money you've saved by not buying the BMW on the most important things ....
more travel time!

Patrick

[PimpYoda]

Treat yourself to the Tenere' and spend the money you've saved by not buying the BMW on the most important things ....
more travel time!

Patrick[/quote]


I've been having a look at the Tenere. It's a stunner and unbelievable that it cost the same new as a second hand BMW.
Busy reading the reports but you guys have done well to change my mind.
I think I'll buy one in the new year when there are a few around with 1 -3000miles on the clock. Then spend some cash to get it Africa ready.

I'm so excited!