I fully agree with HansP that the Varadero is a road bike only. Don’t let the DP or DS ‘classification’ fool you. There’s nothing dual sport about bikes like the Varadero, V-Strom, GS, Tiger, Quota, CapoNord, Multistrada, etc. The manufacturers of these bikes only responded to the demand in the market for ‘adventure style’ touring bikes as obviously demonstrated by the success of the best-selling GS series, which started the trend. The word to pay attention to here is ‘style’, because the design brief for the engineers was dictated by the marketing departments. The marketing guys know all too well that 99.99% of buyers of these bikes will never venture off the tarmac, but nevertheless like the I-might-just-head-off-to-Africa-on-my-next-trip image these bikes portray. Basically, the marketing of these bikes is based on selling dreams, a bit of a variant on the ‘What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday’ theme. And selling the dream of riding-around-the-world or perhaps winning the Dakar has determined the styling of these bikes. It never ceases to amaze me that people think that these DP/DS/Dakar-look-alikes are even remotely capable of following in the tracks of a real Dakar rally bike. These bikes are heavy behemoths that were never intended by their designers to be ridden offroad, apart from the odd short detour onto a nicely graded gravel road in order to gather some dust or mud specks necessary to earn street cred for their latte-sipping owners.
(Did I just say that?)

Please don’t take offence, Gary, but the fact that you even wonder if a Varadero “has much rough dirt road/single track capabilities” not only had me laughing out loud, but convinced me that you have no experience riding ‘rough dirt and single track’. Because if you had, you would never even have contemplated the idea. But you’re not alone in adopting this mistaken belief in the (even limited) offroad capabilities of these big DP/DS bikes, as most RTW-trip candidates have a road-riding background and no idea what dirt bike/single track riding entails.

Returning to the bike in question, not only the bulk and weight and the linked brakes determine the Varadero’s real habitat, but also the cast wheels are a definite ‘no-no’ for offroad riding. This said, the Varadero makes an excellent long-distance touring bike. It’s extremely comfortable, very reliable (it's a Honda!) and low on maintenance, and is easy to handle (on the road). The engine is more than powerful enough and very smooth. It’s IMO one of the best all-round touring bikes on the market, more comfortable (because of better wind protection) than the V-Strom, albeit less powerful. And certainly a lot more fun to ride than any big GS.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to improve on the Varadero's saddle, as it's extremely comfortable, never heard anyone complaining about it. The capacity of the large standard tank is also more than adequate. Besides, if you see the bulk of the stock tank, who in his right mind would want to make it even bulkier? Yes, I know... the Touratech guys...
(Did I just say that... again?)

I have ridden a Varadero (the FI version) on trips in EU in various conditions, ranging from T.W.O.-blasts-down-the-German-Autobahn, to narrow slippery mountain roads (rain, ice, snow), to gravel and dirt roads in the German Eiffel and French Jura mountain ranges, and to even embarrassing sportsbike riders during a track day in northern France (grinding up the foot pegs to half their length, which admittedly is not hard to do on the softly-sprung Varadero). IMO, the Varadero is a fantastic bike in its class, and it would certainly be happy to do a RTW trip if you stick to riding the black stuff. But if your RTW trip involves dirt roads you better start looking elsewhere…

Here you really had me blinking my eyes, Gary :

"I want something nice on pavement...."

and

"I was considering KTM525 or..."

in the same paragraph ??!!


Have you ever ridden a 525?

On pavement?

I know the answer.

(because I'm the happy owner of a 525... )

Sawasdee Krap Khun GypsyRider. Sabai dee reu mai krap? Khun phoot pasa thai mai krap? Phom phoot Thai nid noi krap, bah mai koy dee tao rai krap!
How do you like Chiang mai? I lived in Thailand 5 seperate times for about 3 months each time. I trained and fought Muay Thai there. Phon Nok Muay. lah Ajarn Muay Thai krap!

Please keep in Mind that I live in Canada, and have only seen one very briefly in passing. So I have not seen any specs, sat on one, looked at its brakes, or even its fuel capacity. You are confusing lack of skill with lack of knowledge of a specific bike. Infact, we could turn this around to illustrate the point more clearly. I can know everything about a F1 car, but it doesnt mean I can drive one! What I am saying is I havent been into the scene for a bit, and the bike is new to Canada, and as far as I know, its not in the USA yet. So I have zero knowledge onit. and instead of reinventing the wheel, I figured the best place to start is to ask the forums on thier opinions of the bike. Keep in mind the bikes in Dakar go through some heavy mod'ing as well. They are not stock. So for me to assume that the bike I passed by was the end product for me would be foolish. Thus the question about mods and aftermarket upgrades. Who knows, maybe the bike was able to be rehauled into something very capable... I have no idea, Im not that strong mechanically. My point though is I asked since I had no knowledge of the bike. Much like I have no knowledge of the Tenere. I have never seen one.
No offense taken, just helping you to not jump to conclusions.
Gary

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Gary
CANADA
www.myspace.com/intrepid_cdn

No, I have never rode a KTM, and the 525 was suggested to me a while ago as a potentially solid bike. Infact Dakar seems to be seeing more of them. I was also struggling with what % of Road vs % of Dirt I wanted the bike to be and what I actually needed as a minimum. Im told any bike even a CBR900RR can do RTW. True as that is, it would be highly dependant on the route selection. Im looking for something that can be nice on pavement (read NICE as not bust my ass 10 minutes in ) I guess I have to choose my words more carefully eh lol!!! What I was saying is I looked at all differnt bikes from the very dirt oriented to the more road oriented, accepting that mods and aftermarket stuff can greatly correct deficiencies in some cases. Im just looking for info as this is the hardest selection I have faced. I know most of my riding will be Paved or gravel due to where I live, but Id hate to me limited to that. Heck, even tire selection is an issue right!!!
Thats what Im saying! Sorry for not being more specific or detailed. Hope that helps!
Gary

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Gary
CANADA
www.myspace.com/intrepid_cdn

Was editing this when I saw your location so I thought you may have missed it so I added it as a new post for ya!

Sawasdee Krap Khun GypsyRider. Sabai dee reu mai krap? Khun phoot pasa thai mai krap? Phom phoot Thai nid noi krap, bah mai koy dee tao rai krap!
How do you like Chiang mai? I lived in Thailand 5 seperate times for about 3 months each time. I trained and fought Muay Thai there. Phom Nok Muay, lah Ajarn Muay Thai krap!


By the way, I have rode a 640 for a shirt time, how do y ou feel the 525 compares overall to the 640? We have no KTM dealers anywhere near me, so im SOL for even sitting on one for a bit. All we have around here for dirt oriented DS/DP are KLR, Honda 650XL, DR650 & Yami's, etc - the standard ones.

Chokdee
Gary

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Gary
CANADA
www.myspace.com/intrepid_cdn

I was happy to relay this feedback to the Suzuki Engineers

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Good post, thanks. Yeah Im not a GS guy, Im just asking about the Varadero as I had never seen it before and wanted to know its capabilities. I did mention the the BMW 800 that went through Africa though. It seems alot lighter (382lbs) and lower so I thought it might be suitable, but I have never seen one in real life to get a goo d look at. All the stuff I read in the mags make it sound like its ready to do RTW off road and Dakar stu ff. I have my doubts. Before I bought my Honda, I almost bought a KLR, but I wasnt confident buying the 1st year of a changeover in style.

I hear nightmare stories about KLR Honda 650XL and stuff not being able to take the abuse of a Alaska to argentina ride, or requiring huge maintenance. If moeny isnt an obstacle, I was really leaning towards the KTM 690 since it has the fuel injection and I think the LC8 in it now, as I remember hearing alot of issues with the LC4 from the 640's.

I am just trying to gather peoples opinions and stuff. I hear KTMs are not fun to ride on pavement, I heave BMW are not fun in the dirt, I hear the KLR is great on pavement and lacking in the dirt, but not built for long rides, and in the next breath I hear they are a bulletproof bike able to go without much more then oil changes for long periods of times. I hear the Honda 650XL is outdated and heavy and the XR cant be plated in Ontario. The DR I hear is underpowered and not sufficient tank size for longer runs. OMG :confused1: its get confusing since alot of people are saying complete opposites of each other. Thats sorta why I asked here. I figured, people here probably have the experience and not just weekend rides in the bush.

I really had my options down to like 3 bikes I thought. KTM 690 (possibly 525) if cash is available. My concerns were with service and parts. No dealers for hours around me. KLR or Honda XL was the cheaper alternative. And then I di hear good stuff about the BMWF800Adventure so I was sorta trying to find info. its a new bike too, atleast to Canada. Anyways, thats the dilema. Im trying to find the best bang for the buck. Something I can ride on a highway without wishing I was dead, and something I can ride in the dirt without ending up dead lol.

__________________
Gary
CANADA
www.myspace.com/intrepid_cdn

Hey Molly, I see in the pics there that the center bike looks like a KLR. Could you tell me how that bike faired on the trip as opposed to the other bikes????? Thanks....

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Gary
CANADA
www.myspace.com/intrepid_cdn

The KLR did just fine. It's a very popular bike

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Sawasdee Krap Khun Garry,

I sure am glad you didn't feel offended by my previous posts. Because if they had, I wouldn't have felt safe knowing that you might come and find me in Chiang Mai while on your next kick boxing training camp in Thailand.

I assume you're a lot younger and fitter than I am now, so my own martial arts background wouldn't be of much help in defending myself (Almost thirty years ago I had made the pre-selection of the national team when a dirt bike crash demolished my ankle, leaving me officially 18% disabled and shattering my dream and chances of entry into the Karate world championship).

As for the KLR, I still own one (yes, I've accumulated a few bikes over the years... ) although I haven't ridden it for more than a year, as it is stored in my garage in Belgium. I rode it across a good stretch of the Australian outback during a 3-week offroad journey together with my wife on her XT350. We rode all the way on dirt tracks from Melbourne to Ayer's Rock in the centre of the Australian outback. It's a solid, reliable and comfortable bike, cheap to buy and maintain, and lots of aftermarket stuff available to make it crash proof and set it up for RTW touring. It really is a good cheap allrounder, but it doesn't excel at anything.

My DR650 was a much better bike for offroad riding and handled the long stretches of tarmac almost just as well as the KLR. The DR is simpler to maintain as it has an aircooled SOHC engine with screw and lock nut valve adjustment vs. the KLR's watercooled engine with DOHC shim-under-the-bucket valve adjustment. Also the front brake on the KLR should have been illegal, as it is completely inadequate for onroad use (apparently has been addressed on the new model). The KLR also requires a doohickey upgrade (minor intervention). Both KLR and DR need serious suspension upgrades for any kind of offroad riding and carrying luggage.

I fully recommend the DR650 over the KLR as a low-maintenance dirt capable long-distance travel bike. Both are equally reliable and very good for this purpose, but the DR is much better fun riding offroad than the KLR. Other similar dirt-capable alternatives that should be worthy of your attention are the XR650L and R (I also own a XR650R which I keep in the US for my Mexico trips) for which there are heaps of aftermarket stuff available as well. The XR-L is in the same league as the DR and KLR, and has the best offroad capabilities of the three. The XR-R is a race-bred dirt bike with an engine as reliable and durable as the aforementioned three, but doesn't feel happy riding long stsretches of black top (it would require different gearing).

OK, got to run now or the kids will be late for school.


Pop Kom Mai

Cool, thanks Patrick.
I will definitely check the site out. I hear alot of KUDOS to KLR, its supposed to be more road oriented since the revamp last year. Im not sure, but they do look a little better. I really dont know what to expect, but Id like to do Alaska to Aregentina, and that would be using the Dempster Highway, which can be brutal on bikes. Im guessing SOuth America could be harsh too. But in NA and sections of south Im sure there is great tarmack. Im just thinking, why would people not just get a GOLD WING if all they are gonna do is stay on tarmac? hehe! After all, th at bike has all the bells and whistles... Not my style for sure, but hey, I can see why some people take em. Thanks again! Was a good reply.
Gary

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Gary
CANADA
www.myspace.com/intrepid_cdn

hehe Im teaching more now then training. Im a fire fighter, so Im not in bad shape, but Im far from fight shape now. Im now 38, closing on 39. My sons 17 , so I understand the school thing. There is a school in Chiang Mai, called Lanna Muay Thai owned by a Ustrian guy I believe and his Thai Wife. My buddy from Denmark and his Thai Wife own a gym in Ubon Ratchathani.

Hmm I sorta dropped the idea of the DR650 but now you tweaked my interest.... This selection is SOOOO much harder then when I bought my CBR600RR. That was a easy choice. Super fast, best handling and lightest out there. only 383lbs wet. Bike of the year. And I do LOVE riding it, but I wanna ride something that I dont fear taking on gravel as the paint might get chipped. lol.

Have you hear dmuch about the new KLR? Im hearing its now a little less dirt and a litte more road, with a EFI, better suspension and brakes. Havent rode one yet. I know a guy that has the older KLR and I can take that out for a spin. I was SOOOO close to buying a XR until the province made a new law, that we can make them street legal now. So only the ones that are street legal from the manufacturer can be plated. Anything currently out there plated is grandfathered in. I dont understand it really, but essentially the XR is a hard find in Honda shops in Ontario since that happened. Before we would just add a kit to them, but thats nto gonna happen now. Id like to see them make it meet requirements, with bolt ons, so we could peel the crap off and change up the exhause etc with ease.

I have some fighters in Thailand right now training with Bakuaw. That guys amazing!!!!

Well, Maybe next time round Ill roll up to Chiang Mai, havent been there yet. I have a buddy in CHina ( hes from Wales though ) who teaches at Outward Bound for mountaineeiring, sailing, rock climbing, back packing etc etc. Hes finnishing his contract as we speak and was in chiang mai a few times this year negotiating a mountain bike deal with someone from Europe, but it fell through I h tink. its too bad, as the guy is really one of those guys you can trust anything and he would give ya the shirt off his back. If you know anyone looking for help like that sorta thing or mountin biking, which he LOVES... let me know, He really loved Thailand. Hes abit older then me, in the 50s. but the guys in FANTASTIC shape, and can out run me Im guessing. He and I were getting ready for the eco challenge when some of our US military team members were shipped out and killed that dream.

Well, been fun, chat later

Pob gan mai krap!
La Gon
Chokdee
Gary

__________________
Gary
CANADA
www.myspace.com/intrepid_cdn

Gary:
Haven't got time right now as I am swamped with work, but I'll get back to you later and answer some of the questions you've asked (525 vs 640). I might be able to help your Welsh buddy find a job here in the bicycle touring industry as I know some of the local tour operators quite well. Send me your friend's contact details in a PM and I can get him in touch with some of the key players here.

Patrick:
Great post and great pictures. Makes me want to go back to Mexico. Like your pictures illustrated so well, I realize that in the hands of an experienced and capable rider like yourself it is quite possible to take a big DS bike like a V-Strom across terrain which is absolutely not intended in its design brief. I've committed similar crimes, like riding a BMW K100 across the 'Dark Heart of Africa' to the 'Gates of the Sahara' (Democratic Republic of Congo, Central African Republic, Cameroon, Nigeria, Niger). The poor bike managed to survive the ordeal, but I completely thrashed the cast wheels. Luckily upon arriving in EU one of the tax-free bike shops in Andorra had a new set of K100 wheels in stock, or I wouldn't have made it to the final destination (the BMW bike factory in Berlin).

I'm sure old-timers like ourselves have a few good yarns to share about our biking adventures. Let's meet up for a stroll down memory lane next time I am in San Francisco (I was there only a month ago, but I'll be back).

Have a great weekend.

Cheers

Gary,

There is a thread on the 'Thumpers' forum on Advrider.com that you might want to read. The thread is titled: DR-650 vs KLR-650(good read)

DR-650 vs KLR-650(good read) - ADVrider

Should give you plenty of 'food for thought' and help you decide whether the KLR or the DR is going to be your next ride.

Think that most people will agree that we all start out as novices and as time goes by we gain more and more experience, it is nice to know that we can ask questions of other people, possibly with the hope that they will be able to share their experience with us. I know its a shame, but no matter how much money we have, we just cannot buy experience!!