Bmw f 650 gs dakar

[Lonerider]

Just seen a BMW F 650 GS DAKAR for sale, what do people think of them, would it be good enough to do my trip to Mongolia and back from the UK??
Any advice most welcome
Thanks
Caps

[mollydog]

Decidedly mixed reviews on the F650 series. Some swear by them ... but many swear AT THEM! One problem I have with them is price. BMW guys will tell you they never wear out and have the delusion they are worth a fortune. This is pure fantasy and history shows the F650 series have more "issues" than any Japanese 600.

If me, I'd much rather pick a XT600E, XT660, KLR650 or DR650. Neither the KLR or DR is for sale in the UK, unless you buy a Gray import. The DR650 is the best of the bunch if you can find a 2002 or newer model.

The F650 Dakar is a very nice looking bike, nice styling, nice clocks and switches, comfy seat, good riding position, pretty smooth at 70 mph on motor way ... and best of all ... very good fuel economy. (60 to 65 mpg)

Aside from that last bit (MPG)... none of the other stuff will get you across Mongolia if you've blown another water or fuel pump or your wheel bearings have failed for the 3rd time. All those are common problems.

If you take your time and really LEARN the bike, get all maintenance up to date and carry KEY spares along, then no reason why you can't make it.
More so than most bikes, there is lots to learn on the F650's to have a trouble free trip and keep it going for the long haul.

See the links below and start reading.

F650 Community

The 650 Dakar Thread - ADVrider
This is a big thread, there are a few other good ones on ADV Rider too, but the above one is the biggest. No idea what it's like these days ... haven't read it in years. I'm sure the guys there could answer ANY specific questions you may have.

Good Shopping ...

[Hustler]

Originally Posted by Caps

Just seen a BMW F 650 GS DAKAR for sale, what do people think of them, would it be good enough to do my trip to Mongolia and back from the UK??
Any advice most welcome
Thanks
Caps

Yes, easily good enough.

And a few links just in case you don't know of them -
Directory contents of /GSFAQs/
and
NB's Motorcycle Journal although this site hasn't been updated for a while but contains lots of useful information.

[DrWolle]

Hey Caps,
the F650 Dakar wont be the worst choice i think. The engine is great and yes, it has weak points just like the waterpump or the wheelsrims. That can be cleared by using a new waterpump and excell rims.
I have a G650XChallenge with the same Engine, but i still awaiting no major problems in Mongolia or Siberia.
I you have the budget, change the backsuspenson and take new seals and bearings all over. And, don`t use alu-panniers, they were too bulky and heavy.

[Wheelie]

I've got a Tourateched BMW F650GS Dakar (2001 with 48.000 kms on the clock). It has been through Europe, through much of Africa, Iceland, and I keep on punnishing it... Wherever you will go, it will take you... but so will any other bike. I've been riding a classic Vespa without, a support crew, in the Budapest to Bamako Enduro Rally (all the way down to Guinea Bissau), up against SUVs, ATVs and Enduro Bikes... through deserts, sandy beaches, rocky off road terrain, etc and made it to the finish line... If the Vespa can do that, the Bimmer can take you anywhere.

Capable is not the same as suitable though, and wether the Dakar is the most suitable bike for you depends on how and where you intend to ride, as well as your skills on both riding and wrenching. It is a great bike no doubt, but a 650 is heavy (though not as heavy as much of the competiton, but still heavier than a KTM). Heavy is ok for cruising, but a bitch gor most riders when the going gets even a littlebit tough. In my opinion: the lighter the bike, the cheaper the bike, and the lighter the packed gear, the better the experience... if you intend to do anything off smooth tarmac.

Like many other bikes out there, you will find a few lemons among the F650GS's (I mean, it is not japanese). If you are technically minded then you will be able to sort it out... but some of these issues can be too difficult and incomprhendable for your average mechanic who doesn't have the sense to research the f650.com website. Make sure it is good, or prepare to spend your own time to research and fix... because the average mechanic dosn't know how to fix anything that the equally incompetent computer doesn't tell them to.

My opinion, the most suitable bike for any long trip that takes you outside Western Europe or North America is something small, reliable, cheap, something with grunt and offroad capabilities.

At the very top of my list would be the Yamaha WR250R. I've had the WR250F which is allmost exactly the same bike, but is a racing edition which requires service every day, and major service every 50 or so hours (I'm talking changing oil every other day and oil filter every day, changing piston every 50 hours). So, don't get a plated WR250F, but make sure it is a wr250r... People who hasn't ridden a WR250F may laugh at it, but I promise ou, it will run circles arround any 650cc bike or bigger... The WR250R is not as much of a beast, but it is still very capable... and weighs muuuuuuch less than the bimmer, is much cheaper to buy and maintain, and offers great fuel economy. Also, you don't look like a million bucks on it - which doesn't exactly hurt in some places... and it is very simple and therefore easy to maintain and service. And it is bullet proof reliable.

You don't need to make any changes at all to the Yamaha, but I would conscider the following changes, and in chronological order:
-Soft Panniers
-Long Range Tank
-Centerstand
-Longer Wind Screen
-Improved seat
-12V socket
-Strengthening of sub frame (if you are to haul heavy luggage, carry a pillion, or use hard panniers)
-Bash Plate

My dream bike is a unicorn and probably will allways remain a unicorn, and it is the wr450r which has been rumored for ages that will hit the market... there are a few plated wr450f's out there, but it is the racing version with mirrors and fuel injection... no good for long yourneys. My next bike will therefore be either a KTM 690 Enduro R (light and powerful, but KTM tight service intervals and lack of cruising comfort) or a Tourateched BMW F800GSA (more suitable for what I do most, cruising on tarmac, but capable for a bit of the rough). My deciding factor would be if I had a big trip planned when buying and what type of trip that would be. For your trip, it would be the Yamaha or The KTM, and in that order.

[mollydog]

Originally Posted by Wheelie

Capable is not the same as suitable though, and whether the Dakar is the most suitable bike for you depends on how and where you intend to ride, as well as your skills on both riding and wrenching. It is a great bike no doubt, but a 650 is heavy (though not as heavy as much of the competiton, but still heavier than a KTM). Heavy is ok for cruising, but a bitch for most riders when the going gets even a little bit tough. In my opinion: the lighter the bike, the cheaper the bike, and the lighter the packed gear, the better the experience... if you intend to do anything off smooth tarmac.

Great comments, very accurate too! Pretty much sums up how many riders feel about bike choice ... good guide lines to follow!
(PS: The XT, KLR650 and DR650 are ALL lighter weight than the F650 BMW.
My DR650 is 324 lbs. (147 kgs.) dry, 367 lbs. wet. (167 kgs) about 60 lbs. (27 kgs.) lighter than F650 Dakar) The X Challenge is lighter. The KTM 690 is lighter than ALL of them by 30 lbs. )

At the very top of my list would be the Yamaha WR250R. I've had the WR250F which is allmost exactly the same bike,

They do LOOK alike, but internally, mechanically, very different. I also owned a WR250F and have
toured with guys on the WR250R. The R is an amazing ADV bike, not great on fast motorways, IMO, but good just about everywhere else. A top pick for sure!

My WR, Black Rock Desert. (near Burning Man) WR now sold.

Originally Posted by Wheelie

My next bike will therefore be either a KTM 690 Enduro R (light and powerful, but KTM tight service intervals and lack of cruising comfort) or a Tourateched BMW F800GSA (more suitable for what I do most, cruising on tarmac, but capable for a bit of the rough).

It's a shame you can't buy the Suzuki DR650. It's MUCH cheaper than a KTM 690, more reliable and nearly maintenance free. With proper set up it's quite good off road ... and EXCELLENT cruising on fast highway at 110 kms. for hours and hours with a good after market seat. Smooth, very smooth for a single. Quite a remarkable travel bike, IMHO.
Stronger frame and sub frame than the KTM and 50 kgs. lighter weight than a BMW F800GS. (a real pig)

Simple, inexpensive to buy and maintain, Bulletproof reliability! Win Win

[PaulD]

Caps,
Just be careful of the BMW bashers

[*Touring Ted*]

I'm a good old fashioned traditional hater of the f650s and Dakar's.

You know.. It will probably get you there and back. You'll have swapped your water pump three times , have a new regulator/rectifier and the bike will be held together with gaffer tape, but you will make it.

Great mpg, solid engine (apart from water pump), good power for 650 single, comfortable, low seat and lots of accessories and luggage available off the shelf... I can see why many like it.

For me, there are just too many better alternatives that would do the job with far less problems. They won't get that same 60-70mpg of the f650s though.

[marcm]

A couple of years back I tagged along from Dubrovnik to Barcelona with 2 f650s the only troubles they had were water pump and a few running issues which ended up a loose battery connection..
As ted says they are exceptionally good on the squirt,although on the return trip back up to uk I met back up with one,and going at a very steady 55 to 60ish I wasn't putting hardly any more fuel in the very ancient yamaha..
They do have much longer legs on the bigger roads than my xt..

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by marcm

although on the return trip back up to uk I met back up with one,and going at a very steady 55 to 60ish I wasn't putting hardly any more fuel in the very ancient yamaha..
They do have much longer legs on the bigger roads than my xt..

Try running the autoroutes all day at 70+ MPH (legal in France) and see the difference when filling up.
Only the latest Honda lean burn twins get anywhere near the fuel economy of the BMW single cyl twin spark.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by PaulD

Caps,
Just be careful of the BMW bashers

Yep, there are better forums about BMW products.

[Wheelie]

Seriously, the bimmer is a good and capable bike, and if you like it - go ahead. Where the competition might be 40/60 road vs offroad (like a KTM), the bimmer is 60/40 road/offorad, and might be a better option for some. And, it is reliable enough for most. But as with any bike model, there are lemons, so make sure you buy something solid and give it a test spin. If anything feels even remotely out of tune, turn away... the Dakar is aging, and it is fairly high tech. They are easy to work on though, and easy to fix and service. Only thing to keep in mind though, the lemons in a bimmer might be a little more incomprehendable than the lemons found in some other bikes... like when I struggled with idling/stalling and found that the culprit was a poor adjustment of the clutch cable, and not what the intuitions of every other mechanic and Dakar owner had (it was a very long list of possible culprits). On this note, the f650.com site is probably the best resource site I have seen on any bike.

But riding a wr250r with a light pack is like handling a bicycle... it doesn't get any easier than this, road or offroad. And because it is so simple and bullet proof, you will find that you carry less tools and spares than with any other bike (less space, weight, clutter and expenditures). A 600+++ of any make, not so much. If you think a 250 sounds weak, give it a spin - you will be surprised, I promise... it's got plenty of grunt. It's not the bike of choice for highway riding, but who wants to spend much time doing that anyways? Also, weight and size really matters. A simple thing such as backing up a Dakar if the inclination or surface is slightly against your favour might be impossible if your are even remotely vertically challenged or lack the muscle. Picking up a fallen bike, getting a bike on its centerstand, getting into the saddle, pushing the bike, getting the bike onto a flatbed... everything gets much more difficult for every centimeter of additional height or width, for every kilogram. With a heavy bike you need to put much more effort into planning ahead when riding, with a light one you disconnect your brain.

Riding the Dakar, with panniers, at speeds above 110 km/h is very tiresome. I would say that 120 is your max cruising speed, though you can press it to 130 before you feel that it gets too unstable. But with any bike with a limited wind screen and the upright riding position, anything above 80 km/h isn't too enjoyable for long periods of time anyways. I once rode the Dakar 2000+ kms in two sixteen hour days... it was gruelling. I wish I rode my beloved Vespa crusing at 70kmh and spent another day...

[mollydog]

All good comments on the WR250R. I was impressed from the short rides I've done on the WR250R. Power is good for a 250. A great travel bike for much of the world. But it's not perfect and there have been several mechanical issue reports on ADV Rider WR250R thread. But if one can fit on the little bike ... and can get all your stuff on it ... then it's great!
More and more riders are taking off on these bikes.

On 600's for long days at Speed
Guess it depends what you are used to ... and if you know how to set up a bike. I've ridden my DR650 with a Dakar riding friend through Utah.
We cruise all day at 75 to 80mph. (about 130 kms.) Speed limit in these areas is 70 mph. No instability from either my DR650 or his Dakar. This is our normal cruising speed ... at around 95 mph, my DR has just the slightest weave. Tires make a difference for stability.

We have big distances in US, so maybe we are used to riding long & far at high speed? I've ridden 1000 mile days on my DR650, also done 400 mile days ... 4 in a row. Average speed about 75 to 80 mph. At this speed my DR is smooth and comfortable. Rubber mounted Bars and foot pegs help.

NO SHIELD or Fairing ... I prefer it naked ... generally quieter with NO wind buffeting. Quality Shoei helmet and good ear plugs A MUST.

But I'm used to this long distance on the DR, been doing long rides for years ... 3 or 4 day rides once or twice a month with riding groups. 10 months of the year.


Small riding group to Moab, Utah from California .. and back. About 1200 miles each way ... plus a 1000 miles off road around Moab area.

See tricked out Dakar on the right. And yes, the KLR was right with us the entire ride. The DR and Dakar were very even in a drag race ... but the Dakar had a higher top speed. 105 mph. DR650, around 100 mph top.
MPG= Dakar: 60 MPG .... DR650: 45 MPG KLR: 42 MPG KTM 950: 32 MPG

[*Touring Ted*]

Originally Posted by Walkabout

Yep, there are better forums about BMW products.

I've never understood why anyone would ask for impartial advice about a BMW on a BMW specific forum. Or any other brand for that matter.

BMW owners are the WORST for admitting fault with their machines. I see it everyday.

This is why the hubb is great. You get (almost) non-bias advice.

[Threewheelbonnie]

My F650 water pump went in Morocco. Limped out into Spain which warped the head then suffered at the hands of BMW Malaga until the RAC got me and the bike home. I shall not attempt impartiality.


Get a Ural or Chinese 125 and spend the difference on good walking boots!


Andy