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Actually, I completely forgot about the other stuff they do, so you may be right!!

I am sure I don't need to point out to everyone that the BMW's in question here were all road models weighing about double the weight of the RD350. I also know of an R100RS (no fairing) that have traveled Africa more than once and have been across most of the globe doing more than 1 000 000Km.

Almost all BMW bikes were designed to be used on tar roads, or if you want, European road conditions. The suspensions fitted to all 1200GS's, F650's or even the F800GS has been designed to handle surfaced road conditions and even tough they can cope with a certain amount of off road use they will under perform in these conditions and if continuously used on heavy off road conditions they will fail.
I don't think BMW is denying the problem, which really have more to do with the marketing and PR department than with the engineers.
BMW like to sell their bikes using the Adventure image of the Camel man, but mostly their bikes are used for commuting and for fun rides close to home.

If you are doing hardcore off road traveling you are part of a really small group of riders not being catered for by the large OEM's as it is not financially viable to build bikes for this purpose. Most overlanders can't even afford a new R1200GS never mind a real off road tourer that might have to cost nearly double the price.

HPN is about the only factory producing hand built bikes in very small numbers for this purpose. The cost is astronomical but the bikes are superb and custom build around your needs and specifications.

Here is some of my personal experiences building my own bikes with modifications and parts from HPN.


YouTube - BMW GS by HPN; RIDE THE ADVENTURE

DIY your own bike, the HPN way.

BMW's are MADE to ride off road, or so their ad campaigns suggest. So they should be up to Pistes'. Most overheat that delicate electrical system.

The RD350 is also a road bike ,so the comparison is valid .

Most ,if not all ,of the GS650 fork failures mentioned were on metalled roads .
The bike was being used for the purpose for which it was designed, so the failures are inexcusable .
BMW's attitude,once again, leaves a lot to be desired .

What has any of this got to do with HPN who produce specialised motorcycles in very small numbers?
BTW the DIY thread mentions a problem with HPN bikes at and above the speed of 130 kph ,has this been resolved ?

It’s was not a HPN-related problem, check reply 73 (page 4).

Edit: Next post will be from Mollydog....

More Than Tires
 

I gotta wonder about the S.A. guy and his basic skills when after his HPN customer (who later nearly dies) tells GS Workshop the bike wobbles at 130 kph and the GS doesn't solve the problem ... instead lets him ride away! In out back Africa, no less! :nono:
This guy in NOT NEW! He should have thought to swap out tires. This is so basic even a novice mechanic would have thought of it! Would you not agree?

So what is this guy doing "setting up" bikes for paying customers anyway? :confused1:

This guy is Wrong and should be LIABLE for not solving the problem before the customer ever rode the bike away. As you know, wobbles are not impossible to diagnose. One way or the other, they can be solved ... if time and care are taken by a skilled mechanic.

My guess is at least PART of the problem is in the geometry of the frame and set up of the bike. Something like: head angle, trail, rake, wheelbase, ride height, weight bias, head bearings .... now it's destroyed so no one will ever know for sure.
Something on that bike is screwed up. I've had some Michelin knobbies wobble but never cause loss of control or a complete tank slapper.

"REAL" bike manufacturers TEST bikes before selling them.


Patrick

G'day GS, good to hear from you.

WRT to my RD350, I'm the sort of guy who laughs in the face of anyone who tells me I can't do something.

What, ride an RD350 (the peakiest, 2 cylinder 2 stroke sports bike of the 1970s with no bottom end power, a lightweight frame designed for the road and to win asphalt races) around the world and across the Sahara? You've got be crazy my friends said. Well that's like a red rag to a bull so I eschewed more practical bikes, said stuff you, and went out to prove it can be done.

In the same way I've just come back home after riding 7,500kms around China on a local Chinese 125cc ROAD bike, and 30,000kms from Korea to Italy via Russia/Kazakhstan (and 3,000kms of dirt) on a bloody scooter (Burgman 650), fer christ's sake. :mchappy:

No, the BMWs were indisputably considered by all the "experts" as THE bike to tour internationally on, and the four froggies I met in Tamanrasset laughed at me when they saw my RD (incidentally they were sponsored by one of the French bike mags). The laughing soon dissipated, however, when we compared notes in Niger (and subsequently crossed paths again in the CAR, Kenya and Zambia).

Now if we really want to get stuck into BMW let's look at the spoked alloy wheel problems they had in the 70s and are still having now. Whatever you do folks, if you ride a BMW make sure you have mag wheels if you plan to tackle any decent off road routes (or else bring along an unlimited supply of spokes).

Garry from Oz.

Thanks Alibaba I missed that post .
However further reading indicates that the problem is not really cured as it still has a tendency to happen at higher speeds with other tyres .

It seems rather a shame to spend so much time ,money and effort on a bike that ,although beautiful and full of character ,has an inherent handling fault .

For some of you that seem to be reading this forum with already preconceived ideas of what the outcome should be, it is meaningless to even try and explain something as you will inadvertently pull my words out of context and make your own statements in any case.
For the rest I can just say do not be lazy and read everything twice before you comment on it.
As far as this thread is concerned I merely made a comparison between bikes being used in ways they were not intended to. The Dakar at the start of this thread was used hard on roads with rough surfaces and possibly loose stones etc. The result was the forks failed.
HPN fit forks to their bikes to cope with this type of road conditions and even worse. The result is that the bikes are not the best doing high speeds on highways especially when you combine it with a off road tire like the Desert and overload the bike with luggage. I recommended that we fit more road bias tyres like the T63's or TKC80's but Philip insisted on the Michelin Deserts. Delays from HPN for parts gave me little time to test the bike after it was completed and Philip did not want to postpone his departure date. Our conclusion was that most of the roads north of Namibia will not allow you to travel at speeds of more than 110km/h and the bike was exceptionally stable and comfortable at these speeds especially in really difficult road conditions. The recommendation was that speeds should stay below the 130km/h mark.
As far as the persistent head-shaking is concerned after fitting the TKC's, I can say this; riding a 1989 R80GS for a few months earlier this year it also tend to be flopping around like a leave at speeds over 120km/h. This is not that uncommon when riding with bikes with tall suspensions especially fitted with the high off road type mudguards in front.

Please be polite or you'll be banned.:nono:

Thanks
Chris

If no one is guilty of making unclaimed or insulting statements based on what I have wrote here or on other forums then I guess there is no fools on this forum, and nobody should feel insulted by my statement.

From Dustdevil aka gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar.

Hi gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar aka Dustdevil
If you have a problem with other people's posts, please report them. A moderator will look at them and deal with accordingly.

I happened upon your comment and had a problem with it. So I dealt with it.

If you don't like me having a problem with you calling others "fools", why not go an insult people somewhere else.

Have a nice day,
Chris

Patrick
We discussed via PM our differing opinions on what are acceptable/unacceptable references towards other HUBB users. My opinion is that the above are not acceptable.:nono:


From a personal angle I worry about calling others names which belittle them. IMHO, it implies that if others are fools/dumb asses, I am the expert. It's a dangerous strategy to claim to know everything. It's easy to end up with egg on your face. In my younger years many people described me as (an) arrogant (sh*t). I now try to be a little more humble.

Later. Am off to ride my bike.
Chris

my offending post has been edited and made clean!

Patrick