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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
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  #61  
Old 8 Nov 2008
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Welcome to the Kawasaki home page
Kawasaki Heavy Industries - Company Description - Hoover's

Last edited by mollydog; 21 Mar 2009 at 23:12.
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  #62  
Old 9 Nov 2008
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Actually, I completely forgot about the other stuff they do, so you may be right!!
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  #63  
Old 11 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by farqhuar View Post
This is just typical for BMW and I continue to wonder why they can't get the basics right.

I crossed the Sahara on a Yamaha RD350 in 1978, closely followed by 4 BMWs (2 * R90/6 and 2 * R90/S).

My Yamaha came out intact with no damage to forks or subframe.

Of the 4 BMs, 3 snapped their front forks off at the base of the lower triple clamp and all 4 snapped subframes.

30 years later and I watch "wrong way round" to see snapped subframes on GS12s, and now I read here about snapped forks on GS650s.

When, oh when will the BMW factory ever learn, and when oh when, will the poor suckers who keep buying their crap ever see the light.

Garry from Oz.

I am sure I don't need to point out to everyone that the BMW's in question here were all road models weighing about double the weight of the RD350. I also know of an R100RS (no fairing) that have traveled Africa more than once and have been across most of the globe doing more than 1 000 000Km.

Almost all BMW bikes were designed to be used on tar roads, or if you want, European road conditions. The suspensions fitted to all 1200GS's, F650's or even the F800GS has been designed to handle surfaced road conditions and even tough they can cope with a certain amount of off road use they will under perform in these conditions and if continuously used on heavy off road conditions they will fail.
I don't think BMW is denying the problem, which really have more to do with the marketing and PR department than with the engineers.
BMW like to sell their bikes using the Adventure image of the Camel man, but mostly their bikes are used for commuting and for fun rides close to home.

If you are doing hardcore off road traveling you are part of a really small group of riders not being catered for by the large OEM's as it is not financially viable to build bikes for this purpose. Most overlanders can't even afford a new R1200GS never mind a real off road tourer that might have to cost nearly double the price.

HPN is about the only factory producing hand built bikes in very small numbers for this purpose. The cost is astronomical but the bikes are superb and custom build around your needs and specifications.

Here is some of my personal experiences building my own bikes with modifications and parts from HPN.


YouTube - BMW GS by HPN; RIDE THE ADVENTURE

DIY your own bike, the HPN way.
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  #64  
Old 11 Nov 2008
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BMW's are MADE to ride off road, or so their ad campaigns suggest. So they should be up to Pistes'. Most overheat that delicate electrical system.

Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 17:22.
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  #65  
Old 11 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
I am sure I don't need to point out to everyone that the BMW's in question here were all road models weighing about double the weight of the RD350. I also know of an R100RS (no fairing) that have traveled Africa more than once and have been across most of the globe doing more than 1 000 000Km.

Almost all BMW bikes were designed to be used on tar roads, or if you want, European road conditions. The suspensions fitted to all 1200GS's, F650's or even the F800GS has been designed to handle surfaced road conditions and even tough they can cope with a certain amount of off road use they will under perform in these conditions and if continuously used on heavy off road conditions they will fail.
I don't think BMW is denying the problem, which really have more to do with the marketing and PR department than with the engineers.
BMW like to sell their bikes using the Adventure image of the Camel man, but mostly their bikes are used for commuting and for fun rides close to home.

If you are doing hardcore off road traveling you are part of a really small group of riders not being catered for by the large OEM's as it is not financially viable to build bikes for this purpose. Most overlanders can't even afford a new R1200GS never mind a real off road tourer that might have to cost nearly double the price.

HPN is about the only factory producing hand built bikes in very small numbers for this purpose. The cost is astronomical but the bikes are superb and custom build around your needs and specifications.

Here is some of my personal experiences building my own bikes with modifications and parts from HPN.


YouTube - BMW GS by HPN; RIDE THE ADVENTURE

DIY your own bike, the HPN way.
The RD350 is also a road bike ,so the comparison is valid .

Most ,if not all ,of the GS650 fork failures mentioned were on metalled roads .
The bike was being used for the purpose for which it was designed, so the failures are inexcusable .
BMW's attitude,once again, leaves a lot to be desired .

What has any of this got to do with HPN who produce specialised motorcycles in very small numbers?
BTW the DIY thread mentions a problem with HPN bikes at and above the speed of 130 kph ,has this been resolved ?
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  #66  
Old 11 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
BTW the DIY thread mentions a problem with HPN bikes at and above the speed of 130 kph ,has this been resolved ?
It’s was not a HPN-related problem, check reply 73 (page 4).

Edit: Next post will be from Mollydog....

Last edited by AliBaba; 11 Nov 2008 at 23:51.
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  #67  
Old 11 Nov 2008
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More Than Tires

I gotta wonder about the S.A. guy and his basic skills when after his HPN customer (who later nearly dies) tells GS Workshop the bike wobbles at 130 kph and the GS doesn't solve the problem ... instead lets him ride away! In out back Africa, no less!
This guy in NOT NEW! He should have thought to swap out tires. This is so basic even a novice mechanic would have thought of it! Would you not agree?

So what is this guy doing "setting up" bikes for paying customers anyway?

This guy is Wrong and should be LIABLE for not solving the problem before the customer ever rode the bike away. As you know, wobbles are not impossible to diagnose. One way or the other, they can be solved ... if time and care are taken by a skilled mechanic.

My guess is at least PART of the problem is in the geometry of the frame and set up of the bike. Something like: head angle, trail, rake, wheelbase, ride height, weight bias, head bearings .... now it's destroyed so no one will ever know for sure.
Something on that bike is screwed up. I've had some Michelin knobbies wobble but never cause loss of control or a complete tank slapper.

"REAL" bike manufacturers TEST bikes before selling them.


Patrick

Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 17:23.
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  #68  
Old 12 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
I am sure I don't need to point out to everyone that the BMW's in question here were all road models weighing about double the weight of the RD350. I also know of an R100RS (no fairing) that have traveled Africa more than once and have been across most of the globe doing more than 1 000 000Km.
G'day GS, good to hear from you.

WRT to my RD350, I'm the sort of guy who laughs in the face of anyone who tells me I can't do something.

What, ride an RD350 (the peakiest, 2 cylinder 2 stroke sports bike of the 1970s with no bottom end power, a lightweight frame designed for the road and to win asphalt races) around the world and across the Sahara? You've got be crazy my friends said. Well that's like a red rag to a bull so I eschewed more practical bikes, said stuff you, and went out to prove it can be done.

In the same way I've just come back home after riding 7,500kms around China on a local Chinese 125cc ROAD bike, and 30,000kms from Korea to Italy via Russia/Kazakhstan (and 3,000kms of dirt) on a bloody scooter (Burgman 650), fer christ's sake.

No, the BMWs were indisputably considered by all the "experts" as THE bike to tour internationally on, and the four froggies I met in Tamanrasset laughed at me when they saw my RD (incidentally they were sponsored by one of the French bike mags). The laughing soon dissipated, however, when we compared notes in Niger (and subsequently crossed paths again in the CAR, Kenya and Zambia).

Now if we really want to get stuck into BMW let's look at the spoked alloy wheel problems they had in the 70s and are still having now. Whatever you do folks, if you ride a BMW make sure you have mag wheels if you plan to tackle any decent off road routes (or else bring along an unlimited supply of spokes).

Garry from Oz.
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Last edited by farqhuar; 12 Nov 2008 at 06:22.
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  #69  
Old 12 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
It’s was not a HPN-related problem, check reply 73 (page 4).

Edit: Next post will be from Mollydog....
Thanks Alibaba I missed that post .
However further reading indicates that the problem is not really cured as it still has a tendency to happen at higher speeds with other tyres .

It seems rather a shame to spend so much time ,money and effort on a bike that ,although beautiful and full of character ,has an inherent handling fault .
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  #70  
Old 12 Nov 2008
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For some of you that seem to be reading this forum with already preconceived ideas of what the outcome should be, it is meaningless to even try and explain something as you will inadvertently pull my words out of context and make your own statements in any case.
For the rest I can just say do not be lazy and read everything twice before you comment on it.
As far as this thread is concerned I merely made a comparison between bikes being used in ways they were not intended to. The Dakar at the start of this thread was used hard on roads with rough surfaces and possibly loose stones etc. The result was the forks failed.
HPN fit forks to their bikes to cope with this type of road conditions and even worse. The result is that the bikes are not the best doing high speeds on highways especially when you combine it with a off road tire like the Desert and overload the bike with luggage. I recommended that we fit more road bias tyres like the T63's or TKC80's but Philip insisted on the Michelin Deserts. Delays from HPN for parts gave me little time to test the bike after it was completed and Philip did not want to postpone his departure date. Our conclusion was that most of the roads north of Namibia will not allow you to travel at speeds of more than 110km/h and the bike was exceptionally stable and comfortable at these speeds especially in really difficult road conditions. The recommendation was that speeds should stay below the 130km/h mark.
As far as the persistent head-shaking is concerned after fitting the TKC's, I can say this; riding a 1989 R80GS for a few months earlier this year it also tend to be flopping around like a leave at speeds over 120km/h. This is not that uncommon when riding with bikes with tall suspensions especially fitted with the high off road type mudguards in front.

Last edited by gsworkshop; 13 Nov 2008 at 09:22.
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  #71  
Old 12 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
For some of you fools that seem to be reading this forum ...
Please be polite or you'll be banned.

Thanks
Chris
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  #72  
Old 12 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
Please be polite or you'll be banned.

Thanks
Chris
If no one is guilty of making unclaimed or insulting statements based on what I have wrote here or on other forums then I guess there is no fools on this forum, and nobody should feel insulted by my statement.

From Dustdevil aka gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar.
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  #73  
Old 12 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by gsworkshop View Post
If no one is guilty of making unclaimed or insulting statements based on what I have wrote here or on other forums then I guess there is no fools on this forum, and nobody should feel insulted by my statement.

From Dustdevil aka gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar.
Hi gsworkshop aka Altus Pienaar aka Dustdevil
If you have a problem with other people's posts, please report them. A moderator will look at them and deal with accordingly.

I happened upon your comment and had a problem with it. So I dealt with it.

If you don't like me having a problem with you calling others "fools", why not go an insult people somewhere else.

Have a nice day,
Chris
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  #74  
Old 13 Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
.....tells the dumb ass...


....This guy is a fool....
Patrick
We discussed via PM our differing opinions on what are acceptable/unacceptable references towards other HUBB users. My opinion is that the above are not acceptable.


From a personal angle I worry about calling others names which belittle them. IMHO, it implies that if others are fools/dumb asses, I am the expert. It's a dangerous strategy to claim to know everything. It's easy to end up with egg on your face. In my younger years many people described me as (an) arrogant (sh*t). I now try to be a little more humble.

Later. Am off to ride my bike.
Chris
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  #75  
Old 13 Nov 2008
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Patrick
We discussed via PM our differing opinions on what are acceptable/unacceptable references towards other HUBB users. My opinion is that the above are not acceptable.
Chris
my offending post has been edited and made clean!

Patrick
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LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/which-bike/has-anybody-ever-seen-failure-38514
Posted By For Type Date
The Chain Gang • View topic - Catastrophic F650GS Fork Failure This thread Refback 4 Feb 2009 16:06
Pohjolan Kurapyöräilijät • katso viestiketjua - HUOM! Alkumallien BMW F650GS / Dakar omistajat This thread Refback 1 Jan 2009 10:27
Interesting BMW fact I heard - PNW Riders This thread Refback 1 Jan 2009 03:57
Pohjolan Kurapyöräilijät • katso viestiketjua - HUOM! Alkumallien BMW F650GS / Dakar omistajat This thread Refback 11 Dec 2008 06:50
f650gs Any good? - BMRider Forums This thread Refback 25 Nov 2008 18:28
BMW F650 (UK and Ireland) :: View topic - Fork Failuar This thread Refback 24 Nov 2008 13:51
BMW F650 (UK and Ireland) :: View topic - Fork Failuar This thread Refback 24 Nov 2008 13:05
Has anybody ever seen a failure like this on an early F650GS or Dakar? from Horizons Unlimited - Traveler's Blog | Motorcycle Stories and Community | FAST3R This thread Refback 12 Nov 2008 04:55
.ORG! - Moottoripyora.org - paikka, jossa motoristit kokoontuvat This thread Refback 5 Nov 2008 13:28
BMW F650 (UK and Ireland) :: View topic - Fork Failuar This thread Refback 4 Nov 2008 13:30

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