DR650 SE or KTM Adventure?
 

Hi there,
back from my trip, I sold my R100GS and I am already thinking about a new adventure, most probably this time I will ship my bike to Mongolia and ride the road of Bones...I want a much lighter bike this time, and probably a single cylinder.

My mind says Suzuki DR 650 SE, because I only red positive thinks about this bike, it's very simple and easy to work on.

My heart says KTM Adventure 640, because it looks so good, but I know that servicing it is a pain in the ass compared to the DR650.

The problem in Switzerland is that it's pretty difficult to find a DR650 post 1996. They are plenty of old ones, 88-94, for 1000-2000$, but post 96 are pretty rare, and post 2000 not even imported. They are quite expensive, around 3500-4500$. For the same price I could find a DRZ400 as well.

For the same amount on money or less I can have a KTM Adventure 640, or even A KTM Adventure 950, we find now quite easily a 950 with around 50'000km for less than 5000$.

For 2000$ I could have a Adventure 620 with less than 30'000km...

Well, that's the thing... If I buy a Suzuki, then I need to buy a bigger tank s well, better rear shock absorber.. so it will not be cheap. On the KTM Adventure, there is nothing to upgrade.

The more remote you get the less complicated and more reliable you want the bike to be...

I personally would take the DR650SE, and if you can't find one, take a XT600E or a KLR650 etc etc.

I doubt there are many KTM workshops in Mongolia and those LC4 engines aren't really known for their reliability.

KTM's are LOVELY bikes but I wouldn't trust one in the wilds of Mongolia without a bit of support or at least good mechanical knowledge.

KTM Adventure of Cause!
 

Hello to Switzerland from Austria!

Im planning to ride from Austria to India from September to November in 2012 (just right before the end of the world :D).

I also had similar thoughts about the right choice of bike for that, but I'm 95% sure that I'll go on a KTM 640 Adventure! :thumbup1:

For me it was also the choice "bike of heart" vs. "bike of sanity", and my conclusion is short: If such a trip had anything to do with sanity, I'd go for a ugly like crap Japanese Bike, but, as this trip is a "trip of heart", I will go for the bike of heart! :clap:

Other factors were just like you mentioned: You don't need to do many "tune ups" on the KTM, and, if you have some serious trouble with the bike, that could just cause a "special" experience in the trip. I think such a trip is all about overcoming difficulties, so I dont' mind a little pain in the ass with the bike sometimes, if it makes me happy all the time I'm riding it. :funmeteryes:
At the moment I own a 99 Speed Triple 955 and a 08 Moto Morini Corsaro 1200, and I never regretted getting myself "exotic, unreliable" bikes. Just the pure joy of riding them, looking at them, by far outnumbers the small difficulties you have to face with those bikes from time to time! :mchappy:

And also I'm Austrian, so it's a thing of national pride to be the ambassador of great austrian bike technology in Asia! :punk:

See you on the road!

Martin

PS: One of my bike mates is a professional ktm bike mechanic, that will also help a little... :innocent:

Hallo Martin,

I know exactly what you mean with exotic bikes, I have a MV Agusta F4 750 from 2001 and a Husaberg FE550 ;-)

I love the Motor Morini Corsaro, it's the best V twin ever made I think! The day I have the money and I find a good second hand, I'll buy one! and as well I dream to have a Benelli TNT, god this engine is soooo exiting!

Well, good luck for your trip, I will keep an eye open this winter to see if I can find a good bargain...

Touring Ted, the KLR 650 are not very common in switzerland and if I don't take a KTM, I want an aircooled engine. XT600E, there's plenty of them, arround 1200-1800$.

how good is a XT600E 1991 vs a Suzuki DR650 SE?

It's approx 20kg heavier...

there's one for sale with 21'000km km from 1991 in very good condition with acerbis 20L tank for 1500 bucks...

It's a little slower and not as smooth. BUT ! It's very simple, very reliable and very forgiving.

I would look for something a little newer with lower mileage. They shouldn't be too much more.

It will cruise at 100km/h all day long and is very easy to work on.

If you go the direction of a basic Japanese single (eg. KLR, DR, XT) make sure you go with a model that is common for your region. For example the KLR here in North America is an A model, which is different from the C model which I believe was the type that was sporadically imported into parts of Europe. I rode a C model from Vlad to Mongolia, it's got a small tank and a brutally weak rear subframe so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. The A model is much better suited, but I dont think you'll find many of those over in your area.

You mention the DR isn't that common in your area, unless you are a committed Suzuki fan, there's no need to go chasing any of these specific bike makes and models. Find what's common in your area, look at a few of the ones available and pick one that meets your needs. If you have easy access to XTs, go in that direction.

In regards to KTM, for some reason there aren't many KTM riders on this board but you will run into many, many KTMs long distance touring. They all seem pretty happy with their bikes and have figured out a way around the well known weaknesses of some models and years, so I'd keep looking at those as a very viable option.

Might exceed your budget, but prices are a lot better now and the BMW XChallenge certainly got rave reviews on the route you are thinking of riding from Colebatch.

In Switzerland BMW X series are not comon and quite expensive... We have a lot of F650GS, and especially the R series (R1200 is the most sold bike in switzerland for at least 5 years in a row). Old XT avec tenere are quite common and cheap, but usually with 30'000 to 80'000km on the clock. KLR are absolutely no common here. We have some DRZ as well, but usually the supermoto version, and quite a lot of KTM Adventure 950 and 990, not so much Adventure 640...

I will keep an eye open....

For technical driving I would have chosen the KTM instead of a jap single. There was a major upgrade in 2002/3 (?).
Buy one as fast as you can spend some time to work on it. They do have some issues but at least they are fun to drive!

German DR's
 

Hey Zimi,

A DR650SE is a good idea. In Germany there are a several for sale at the moment, take a look at:

www.mobile.de

www.autoscout.de

Last week there was a black 1996 DR with 16000KM sold for 1700 euro's. There is still a white 1997 DR with 14350 km for 2300 euro.

Good luck.

As stated many times, you'll get there all the way and back on any bike, and certainly on any of your candidate bikes, as plenty of people have gone with far sillier choices ;-) There isn't a universally perfect bike, but there may be a perfect bike for you on a specific day.

Since I know that doesn't help you, I'll root for KTM because

a) it's the bike of your heart, and that counts for a lot
b) KTMs aren't unreliable if you service them a bit (my LC4 went happily 25,000 from Germany to Nepal, and I'd take the same bike again), feel free to PM me about the things that I think need to be done regularly
c) the suspension alone beats the pants off any DR, XT and alike, especially if you plan on doing quite a bit of off-road or bad roads as you would on a trip to Mongolia

The KTM for sure... 100%

forget all those people saying they arent reliable. We have ridden across Africa on two KTM 990 Adventures and they have been awesome. We even rescued a BMW in Masai Mara in Kenya by towing them whne their fuel pump broke.

precautions and preparations are of course important such as filter fuel before it goes in the tank .. this is most important.

All the information is on our website at www.bigbiketrip.net

Go for the 990 Adventure.... read our website and diary at www.bigbiketrip.net ... cape Town to Shanghai. Fanny, a Chinese former volley ball player, had a licence for just 7 months and road a KTM 990 Adventure across Africa.

www.bigbiketrip.net

I was commenting on the 640 which is the bike he was initially talking about. The LC4 engine has nothing in common with the bigger bore twins.

With absolutely no offence, you must be dreaming is you think those LC4 engines are trouble free.

Where I would not hesitate taking one travelling, crossing Mongolia on one is a different story unless you know how to fix it.

Obviously that's just my opinion. No doubt Mongolia would be an absolute BLAST on a 640 Adventure.
This is an old but very interesting thread and DEFINITELY worth reading if you are considering an LC4.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...lems-list-9345

Thanks for the infos:

to rupertu: 990 Adventure is much to expensive for me, but I might consider a 950 Adventure, sometimes we can find for 5000$ a 950 with approx 50'000km.
I heard their weak point is water and gazpump as well as the clutch piston.

To touring ted: I know this post about the ktm problems, but there is quite a few things that I could check or change before the trip.

I was first condisering a single cylinder because of the weight (the 640 is much lighter than the 950), and because I don't need so much power. I travelled approx 3000km in Mongolia 2 up with 30kg of luggage on a R100GS, it was quite hard in the Gobi, this time I really want to have a lighter bike, especially for the road of bones!

Take a lot at Colebatch's post in this thread http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ike-do-52163-9 where he observes that beyond civilisation in Siberia, the majority of bikes are KTM or BMW

Anyways, I think the LC4 is a fine engine that if looked after will go a long way. I was happy enough with mine :-) Compared to the DR you probably need a bit more maintenance, but your ride is in a different league.

Things to watch out for:
- Rocker arm roller (probably needs replacement every 25.000km or so, change before you go)
- Good quality oil, change regularly
- Hydrolic clutch master/slave cylinders, take a bottle of Magura blood
- Put gaiters on the USD forks
- Starter sprag clutch can wear out if you put on the throttle whilst starting, easy to replace though (guide on advrider)
- On the Mikuni BST40 carb, the jet needle and needle jet may wear out, take a spare (BST40 guide on advrider)
- Get the right (front) sprockets, otherwise you may have an oil leak if it doesnt fit properly
- Change the crank lip seal in the clutch case every now and then, makes sure you get enough oil on the crank

Anyways, there's no right choice. Pick the one you like and don't look back :scooter:

Whats important to you ?
 

I love KTMs and but I own a DR650SE. I think it is safe to say that almost all bikes are reliable to a point if serviced and loved in the right way. But some will take more of a beating than others.

For me bike choice is about budget, reliability, comfort, simplicity of repair and availability of parts. You can get used to almost any bike on a trip, some will be more fun than others, some will be faster than others. What is your trip about fun, getting from POI to POI as fast as possible, getting there without the need for a massage to recover ?

I personally would go with the DR as it seems more universal. But I also understand that there issues with getting that model up there.

Cheers

Hi Guys,

some updates.... I ended up buying a DRZ-400 SM 2005 with 14500km this weekend. In excellent condition for only 2000US$... Well that's the reason I bought it.

Is has a charging problem, and that's why I got this incredible price, I guess it's the connector between the regulator and the battery, I red a lot of posts on internet about this, will check as soon as I can.

So now I have the option to buy enduro rims, big tank and panniers and prepare this DRZ, or to sell it/trade it when the good season starts again...

I kept an eye and still no DR650 SE for less than 3500 US$ and just one KTM Adventure. A 99 with 17'000km, with lot of goodies, but +5000$.. A bit too much for me right now..

This 'might' help...

[url=http://www.touringted.com/drz400s-overland-prep]Touring Ted

AHHHH Why can I never insert working links on this site.... :funmeterno:

Hi Touring Ted,

thanks for the link, but I already have it! Nice webpage.

I should do the same with the modifications I did on my R100GS

By the way, it's a 2006, not a 2005.

First thing - you are going to pay much much more for a KTM than a DR650!

Although KTM's do have a big following they are very highly strung machines which take a lot to maintain and keep roadworthy.

A DR650 is a much much simpler bike (most would say more durable & reliable too).

A KTM is cutting edge Austrian technology at it's best but you pay a lot of money for it. If you are rich then go right ahead and get one...

For me the DR650 makes much more sense. :thumbup1:

Perhaps you should also look at the Yamaha XT series too?

I'm not a big fan of KTM's but have a look at these ride reports, both guys rode KTM's and absolutely loved them, riding hard and fast. Both links drop you into the middle of their rides.

Same as it ever was…heading to Latin America - Page 91 - ADVrider
No Fumar Español: South from San Diego - Page 80 - ADVrider

I've run a 640 Adventure for 7 years and have become a big fan of this bike...About the second year of ownership the bike had a piston ring fail, in turn causing other damage... This was at 40,000 km and was the only real failure the bike had... I have really gotten used to the bike and what the service intervals are that it requires... I do all the maintenance my self on the bike and being carburated it is still simple and not so dependent on software as are some examples ... My service intervals go about every 2 years or 40-50,000 KM which consists of a valve job being done, water pump rebuild and replacement of the rocker roller bearing on the intake side... I replace the piston rings at every 2nd service around 80-100,000 KM... I am coming up to 152,000 KM on this bike and decided that I should purchase a second 640 at first opportunity ... I found a fairly beat up hard ridden version, same year {03} with 28,000 km and am restoring it to make a second reliable ride... Oil changes are a little more time consuming but other than that service to these bikes is pretty simple...

Now the DR 650 and the KLR have proved to be pretty reliable but not without faults, of coarse the KLR has the DooHickey + oil burning issues and the DR is known to have thin engine case material which can puncture in a tip over and in a few examples gearbox issues outlined in this thread:DR650 3rd gear blowups - Page 22 - ADVrider

Given that choice, I personally would take the KTM, Cause you can take it as it is, stick a stiffer rear spring and luggage on it, and ride it hard over shitty roads anywhere on the planet. The DR650 will be better if your riding is less about fun and more about simplicity - more about getting there. The KTM is better if its more about HOW you get there.

To me, the question (and all the hundreds of other what bike questions on the forum) comes down to ... what kind of rider are you? What floats your boat.? If your priority is the destinations and the bike is a means to get you there, then you want to take a simple, reliable bike so you are not distracted by bike issues. If riding pleasure is also a focus for you, then a lighter, better suspended, higher performance bike will give you a higher return in terms of satisfaction.

For anyone reading this down the line, please, when you ask the what bike question, tell us a little bit (or a lot) about your riding background and style, and what you enjoy about riding, because its impossible to give a useful answer to the question without it.

I'll wager you have never owned a 640, and that your claims are all hearsay based on
the experiences of others.

I have owned a 640 and ridden it many miles , and it has been as reliable as any Japanese
bike I have ever owned, over 40 years of riding motorcycles.

To the OP : Don't let the claims of "internet experts" dissuade you from buying what is far and away the best
adventure bike in the world. One caveat : if you are shorter than 5 feet 10 inches tall, you will find the bike is a handful.
But if your skill is up to the bike's abilities, you will find no more satisfying bike on earth, for true adventure riding.

By far, the comment written by Colebatch, above, is the most pertinent on this thread. I suggest you
read it several times and digest the deceptively simple wisdom the man was kind enough to offer,
which is based on more riding experience than most folks will have in a lifetime.

Probably because KTM riders are out riding :-)

Well, so sayeth the man who had bought and sold bikes professionally and has also trained as a motorcycle technician to a high level, worked in large multi franchise dealerships as well as my own motorcycle repair business professionally.

I've worked on a few broken LC4's as well as seeing plenty of them coming in and out the workshop. I've also seen many in pieces in workshops all over the world and their owners banging their heads against the wall trying to source parts..

You get a 'feeling' of which engines are better than others, in terms of reliability.

Just because yours hasn't let you down, doesn't mean plenty haven't...

And I'm not saying they're all going to break down , nor am I saying a Jap bike won't either. Reliability is rarely down to luck. It's about engineering. The LC4's aren't built to go around the clock. It's fact, not internet hearsay.

I'm not saying I'm a KTM expert, just giving my opinion which 'possibly' may be more experienced than some others, which is all one can do on an internet forum. It's the OP's decision of who and what he listens to.

Does 40 years of riding a bike make you a KTM expert ? My mum's being cooking for 40 years and she still burns everything.... Get my point ?

I'm just simply saying, the LC4's have their issues and they are well known.

The 640's are great bikes, make great power and are a lot of fun. I believe anyone should just ride the bike that THEY want to. But If you wan't to think it's as reliable as a DR650 or XT600 then you need to maybe ask your doctor to change your medication as it's clearly affecting your mind..

Don't be one of those small minded individuals who refuses to believe the bike in your garage might not be the greatest bike in the world just because YOU bought it.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez !!!!!!!!


No offence intended or implied.... :innocent:

Ahh, personal insults. The last resort of the uneducated and ignorant,
when all their other arguments have failed.

You have failed to accomplish anything other than to make yourself look like someone whose forum "contributions" are best ignored.

By the way, your mom's cooking appears not to be her only failure. She also didn't teach you
any manners. But I suppose that might be expected, given your working class background.

Sorry mate. I won't be pulled into a pointless internet argument by a troll. Your posts say all they need to without me having to point it out.

I genuinely meant "no offence intended". It's just a little tongue in cheek humour which has obviously gone amiss. Probably due to my working class background and poor parenting. :innocent:

And if my working class background offends and separates us, I fear you may have just exposed yourself for a clueless snob and separated yourself from probably 99% of the forum members.

I won't post again as this is going WAY off topic. :funmeterno:

Safe travels. Ted

This is an interesting thread for me, because I have a choice between either a fully loaded XT600 or a KTM 640 Enduro with the tank of an Adventure, which seems to be one of the major differences between the two models.

I've always been given high praise for the XT. I'll be honest though, the thing which is swaying my opinion is the sheer beauty of the 640. I'm worried about the reliability though and as I have absolutely no experience fixing bikes, it worries me more than it would other people. If I knew that the KTM could get me to Australia, I'd pick it. I just have a huge fear about being stuck in the middle of nowhere with a broken bike!

I'll keep an eye out for this thread. I know it's asking between a DR and a 640 but it's still quite relevant to my dilemma. I suppose what it could come down to is whether you pick by your head or your heart.

If you are a serious rider, a few minutes on each of the bikes you are
considering should clarify things nicely. The difference in the suspension on the two bikes is huge.

And if you listen to anyone's comments in this thread, listen to Colebatch.
He is the real deal, and he has been there and done that.

Also, it's worth noting that the 640 Enduro has a Keihin FCR carb, but the Adventure
has a Mikuni BST constant velocity carb. The FCR is better suited to "performance"
but the Mikuni is better able to compensate for changes in altitude, and that makes it
perhaps a better choice for a traveling bike.

Those who say the KTM is unreliable are mostly repeating things they have read on the internet.
Those who actually OWN a KTM won't trade their bike for any other bike. That should tell you
something.