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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
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  #16  
Old 6 May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkLG View Post
You can always switch it off or pull the fuse for offroad riding.
Apparently not so with BMW's. that is why the long way round team had to abandon one of their GS's and continue with a Russian two stroke for a while when the ABS failed. I beleive they had to airlift it back to Germany to get it fixed as the support team mechanics couldn't fix it. Don't suppose it cost Ewan and Charlie much, but it might be a little expensive for some of us.
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  #17  
Old 6 May 2008
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Originally Posted by oldbmw View Post
Apparently not so with BMW's. that is why the long way round team had to abandon one of their GS's and continue with a Russian two stroke for a while when the ABS failed. I beleive they had to airlift it back to Germany to get it fixed as the support team mechanics couldn't fix it. Don't suppose it cost Ewan and Charlie much, but it might be a little expensive for some of us.
It depends on the type of fault. If you have problems with the sensors or ABS-ring you still have (non-ABS)-brakes.
I'm pretty sure that if they have bypassed the system (hoses from brake-cylinder to caliper) they could have continued.
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  #18  
Old 7 May 2008
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Long Way Home.... Cooked ECM

I have ridden a 2006 R1200GS off road in some pretty challenging mountain conditions. Very loose dirt on steep down hill means the bike just KEEPS ROLLING WITH ABS! It will not stop!

Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 18:36.
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  #19  
Old 7 May 2008
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When ABS was first on the scene for bikes, one of the tricks the demo riders would do was to launch into a sand trap at 100kph plus and pull up in a straight line. Really very impressive.

When the first Merc trucks came out with ABS they would do a similar thing with one set of wheels on a road and the other set on the dirt beside the road. Dead straight stop with ABS. Without ABS they very nearly jack knifed - more luck than judgement that saved the driver.

On the downside with ABS it can be fooled by some road conditions, corrugated and muddy dirt roads can fool the ABS and apply too few pulses giving the impression of under braking.
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  #20  
Old 7 May 2008
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Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
It did not help that the Russian Welder put a high amp Arc Welder right up next to the ABS'a ECM..... or was it the main ECM for the bike? Any case, he fried it good apparently.
It was a bad thing to do, but next time they might make sure that the welders do their stuff right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
I have ridden a 2006 R1200GS off road in some pretty challenging mountain conditions. Very loose dirt on steep down hill means the bike just KEEPS ROLLING WITH ABS! It will not stop!
So you have noticed it

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Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
Turn it off ABS and what happens? The damn brakes are sooooo strong, the slightest touch and you lock 'em up. To get this bike off this mountain took a deft touch and some near crashes.
From time to time a drive a HP2 (non ABS) and I used to have the same problem. The first time I locked both wheels in most traffic lights out of town. When I finally got to gravel roads I locked the wheels all the time.
It was a PITA and I seriously thought of lubing the brake pads….But after focusing on the problem for a few hours it was no problem at all. You just need to be gentle then it works perfect. Driving down a mountain might be the wrong place to practice.
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  #21  
Old 7 May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbmw View Post
Apparently not so with BMW's. that is why the long way round team had to abandon one of their GS's and continue with a Russian two stroke for a while when the ABS failed. I beleive they had to airlift it back to Germany to get it fixed as the support team mechanics couldn't fix it. Don't suppose it cost Ewan and Charlie much, but it might be a little expensive for some of us.
It's NOT a fault of the ABS or the bike, it just shows the stupidity of the owners - any detail should be taken off the bike on welding in third world with questionable electric welding equipment and questionable grounding, on ANY bike IMHO at least. Another issue is the heat from welding that burns out the isolation of cables and grounding them against the frame as a result. I was rather amazed they didn't burned out the rest of the electrics with that stupid frame repair on-bike welding: EFI brain (Motronic), lights, coils, fuses, and the engine still worked - lucky for them - they probably weren't smart enough to diagnose a broken fuse and replace it if necessary :P

Last edited by Margus; 7 May 2008 at 08:30.
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  #22  
Old 7 May 2008
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The guys screwed up with the repair, so its a user error, and not an ABS fault.

Lucky they are the millionaires, so they can just fly their bikes in and out of the middle of nowhere, and get them fixed... good on them!!

I would trust to take my bike on any trip, and not have a problem with ABS - the bike would much more likely fail from somewhere else (and based on my experience, I know even that is not a high possibility at all).

What ABS gives me, vs. what possibility I have ending up in technical trouble with it, I will choose to go with it any time.
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  #23  
Old 7 May 2008
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On a personal note, I have seen Margus use his ABS to good effect in Bucarest traffic - his comment at the time was that without ABS in certain situations, he would have been down.

I'd like ABS myself, (you can't beat progress) but it's not fitted on an AT.

The bodged repair by Charlie and Co was the result of ignorance on their part, but solved by lots of money. It wasn't the welder's fault, thought he might have had some idea what could happen!
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  #24  
Old 7 May 2008
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V-Strom 650 non ABS tested

I was following a car aproaching traffic lights on red when we got to within about 25 mtrs the lights changed to green, I started to accelarate and the car stopped at the junction, he was on his mobile. Anyway I braked hard and the wheels didn't lock and gave me the chance to avoid the b88888d , it reminded me of my previous bike a Burgman 650 with ABS which reacted in a similar manner. This is in Saudi, the road dry and I can't say I noticed any significant difference.
Cheers
Ian
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  #25  
Old 7 May 2008
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From an RTW point of view...

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Originally Posted by MotoEdde View Post
From a RTW point of view, its not a good idea off-tarmac and adds additional weight/complexity to your bike choice.
Don't think I can agree here. I much prefer going down a few more times on the dirt then in Teheran traffic or any other busy traffic situation where actual traffic rules are limited to the intuition of every individual traffic participant (which can be anything between a chicken and an elephant, a todler and a Giant truck). And honestly, while overland traveling (multi month rather then multi day) how often do you voluntarily slide around?
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  #26  
Old 8 May 2008
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Originally Posted by pecha72 View Post
If it says "Rossi" or "Carmichael" on the back of your jacket then no, you dont need ABS, as you can brake better without it.
Sorry to have a go what I think is probably just a gentle comment to kick off an otherwise very useful post, but the first bit is rubbish and possibly dangerous if some Muppet rides with the ABS fuse pulled because he thinks he's Rossi.

Allow me to give you some background. I work for WABCO who manufacturer about 60% of the ABS and EBS systems on trucks worldwide. I am a sales engineer directly involved in the specification of these systems and a former test engineer. I've worked on all types of vehicle ABS from cars up to the biggest trucks. The only difference with bikes is the wheel lift function in the software, an idea I have used on some military applications.

The myth that anyone will beat the system is based on a test. To prove that the system doesn't just let the brakes off, that it uses it's control loop, you have to find a value for the surface and the decel possible with just the basic brakes. This is compared to the ABS. This searching, on a track I used every day, with a gauge showing the pressure infront of me, typically took ten or twenty stops to find, more if you didn't get it before the weather changed. If Mr. Rossis can find this exact pressure first time, on a piece of road he never saw before, in natural conditions, he is indeed the worlds best rider!

Arguments against ABS on the grounds of 3 kg weight are valid, as is the thought that off road it is less effective depending on how useful a locked wheel with debris built up ahead of it might be. Reliability with ABS is not a factor, a failed sensor or modulator only gives an annoying red light, you still have 100% braking available. A powered system like BMW have used is a bad idea IMHO, but from the power side not the ABS. Feel of ABS is just a very simple technique. Squeeze/push like ****, look and steer in the direction you want to go and ignore the noises etc.

Hope this is useful,

Andy
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  #27  
Old 8 May 2008
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Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
It depends on the type of fault. If you have problems with the sensors or ABS-ring you still have (non-ABS)-brakes.
I'm pretty sure that if they have bypassed the system (hoses from brake-cylinder to caliper) they could have continued.
I'd have ridden on, there is no ABS failure that results in loss of brakes, that isn't just a normal brake failure (like a leak). I could have fixed that bike in ten minutes with the BMW diagnostics and the right parts. Given the welding and ABS light, I suspect more was fried than the ABS ECU and would bet money they didn't want to broadcast the fact that a simple bodged repair effectively scrapped the bike. The other electrics are IMHO a reason to use something no later than an R1100.

Andy
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  #28  
Old 8 May 2008
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Threewheelbonnie, it's nice to have someone with a bit of insider knowledge in the debate, the rest of us are just end users. However you mentioned that you can steer with the ABS in operation and another post said the same. You meant on 4 wheel systems (or 3 wheels!) I'm sure but there is some confusion. IMHO ABS on a bike is only of any use when braking in a straight line as soon as you lean the bike over to steer you will have to come off the brakes or you'll lowside. Modern bikes with modern tyres and brakes offer an amazing amount of grip even on wet roads. In emergency situations on wet roads especially in low speed senario's such as in town then it's very easy to lock the front. Here ABS is a godsend and no-one could say differently but at higher speeds where there is a lot of weight transfer to the front I think it's less of an advantage.

I'm no riding god, I'm just an ordinary rider but I spent my formative years learning on bikes with crap tyres and brakes and riding off road. Maybe my skill set is different to the "Brembo" generation.
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  #29  
Old 8 May 2008
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Your right about BMW ABS. We have seen a GS with ABS trouble that had ....NO BRAKES!

Last edited by mollydog; 26 Mar 2009 at 18:37.
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  #30  
Old 8 May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasi View Post
How important is it to have ABS on a bike? How much difference would it actually make?
If you use rear brakes ...it might be usefull .... BUT ... if you use front brakes only (like me) ...its terrible!! ....

I read ( in HUBB) that, in Australia ABS is optional .... which, İMHO makes aussies the most lucky drivers around the globe ...
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