2-up comfort?

[othalan]

More than two years wandering the world and I am still delighted with my choice of the KLR650 except for one growing problem: I regularly take on passengers. The KLR isn't all that comfortable with two people and all our luggage...especially when one person is only a temporary passenger with a backpack strapped on the back.

So I am considering the possibility of a different bike. I do not need any more power...I am happy moving slowly through the world. I have no desire for a monster bike like the GS1200 or its competitors...I want something smaller I can still easily take out in the dirt and mud and sand.

So far I've identified four bikes to look at: KTM 990 Adventure. Yamaha XT660Z Tenere. Triumph Tiger 800. Honda Africa Twin.

The first is hard to do maintenance on and the last is getting rather old. The others I know nothing about. I rode a Suzuki DL650 V-Strom in the past and it is so bad in the dirt I really hesitate to consider it as an option. I have no desire for a BMW GS800.

Thoughts? Any suggestions on other bikes that would be more comfortable than the KLR with a passenger?

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by othalan

Thoughts? Any suggestions on other bikes that would be more comfortable than the KLR with a passenger?

A modern Transalp in place of the Africa Twin would be OK for two up.

[Gipper]

Othalan,

Firstly, which market are you planning on buying a new bike in ? The USA or elsewhere? as you cant buy the XTZ660 (or TransAlp) in North America, I too am looking for something better after taking the DR650 around South America 2up with the wife, I wont touch the F800GS either, the V Strom 650 is a good bike but I would like something with a bit more grunt and a 21 inch front wheel, I dont like the Strom 1000.

If you are outside of the Americas then the Yamaha XTZ660 is a good bike and good value, not sure how good it is 2up, but it has decent power (compared to KLR & DR) As Walkabout mentions the TransAlp is a very good bike too, I also heard a rumour (on HUBB?) that Honda were going to introduce a modernised 'Africa Twin' in the near future

The KTM 990 is a great bike with a very good chassis and geometry, its power is addictive and in the dirt my friend thinks it carries its weight better than his KLR, but Ive had larger KTMs before and I dont enjoy the fiddly maintenance to do simple jobs IMO. (unlike their excellent smaller thumpers)

This brings us back to the Tiger 800xc, which will probably be my next bike, I dont think the triple is the best motor for pure dirt riding - I think a twin puts its power down better in the dirt and will have a better bottom end IMO but I will be riding 2up on asphalt and fairly easy trails on the Tiger anyway and for that I think for me it will be a perfect bike.

[kentfallen]

+ 1 for the Suzuki DL650 V-Strom. An excellent little tourer. Will do most things you ask of it including 2 up touring. Limiting factor is two riders luggage. It's certainly got enough poke (torque) to haul you +1 on this trip. I'm thinking of getting one myself.

What about a Triumph Tiger? I realize it's not really a trail bike but it is capable of doing most other things well. Plenty of room/power for pillion riding too.

Don't forget the Yamaha XT660 series of bikes too. My number one choice for a hard-core RTW bike.

I suppose your options are dictated by the size of your wallet (like most of us)?

If money isn't a problem for you then by all means consider a BMW or KTM. Personally I keep well away from the because I don't think they represent outstanding value for money when you compare them with other (cheaper) alternatives which will often do exactly the same.
INCOMING!!!!

[MountainMan]

Having ridden with a passenger on the back of a KLR650 and an XT660Z, I can say that you will not find much advantage of moving to the XT. The stock seat on the XT is uncomfortable and the pillion sits at what feels like a slghtly higher height which slides the pillion forward when braking at lights for lights, cows, etc. Maybe this is solved by a custom seat, perhaps others can chime in.

Anyways, a couple of the main issues I noticed when riding two up is cockpit size and luggage capacity. The middle weight dual sports like the KLR and the XT feel pretty similar to me for size, and when the pillion gets on there is not that much room. I know many people have ridden large miles happily with two people on middle weight bikes, maybe they are thinner or better packers than the rest of us

Everything is a compromise so if you are thinking of additional passenger comfort you will likely have to go slightly bigger (eg. ~800cc+) or to a more street orientated of the dual sports (eg. DL650). Africa Twin, Triumph Tiger, F800GS, KTM990, etc. are all great bikes each with their own pros and cons and have been ridden extensively on very long trips. It's up to you to sort through the many varying inputs but I would certainly try to screen out biases and make your own assessment.

As for selecting from the more street orientated dual sports, I have not ridden the DL650 for other than a few highway miles but it certainly sets up well for riding two up. I have ridden the DL1000 down the east coast of Africa and surprisingly it is better than a person would think off road. It is of course no KLR in the sand but on regular roads the seat is a couch that a passenger will find very comfortable.

It's all a tradeoff as mentioned but I certainly found that when I had a pillion, I trended to better roads and no one had fun on the rougher tracks (rider or pillion). Maybe let us know where you are heading next, how much highway vs. off road you are thinking, and what percentage you will be riding two up as that might also have an impact on bike choice. Either way, happy planning.

[docsherlock]

XT660Z sucks two up.

Strom 650 is better but a pig off road.

If you have the cash I'd get a Tiger 800 XC and be happy.

[othalan]

Thanks for all the input guys! Keep it coming! This has given me a lot of things to think about as I look around at the options. And a few biases to sort through.

Thinking on the replies, it sounds like what I am probably looking for is a 800cc - 1000cc that isn't a pig in the dirt. I know the KTM990 does it but the price and maintenance both still have me flinching. I need to test out some of the other options on a dirt road with a passenger. Sounds like I have a goal this summer!

Here are some more details:

I am in Europe at least through the end of October, possibly a lot longer. Sometime over the winter here I will visit family in the USA and could easily buy a bike there and ship it back over (though shipping costs might make that a not so good idea). After that.....no clue. I don't plan ahead very well. But I know that Africa, Russia/Mongolia, and SE Asia are all in my travel plans eventually.

Any bike I get must be up to pavement, lots of dirt roads, moderate mud, and light sand. I do like the V-Strom on the road but hate it in the dirt....but I should probably give it another test anyways as I know my riding skills are vastly improved since I last rode that bike.

No clue if I will ever have a permanent passenger, but frequent short-term passengers are a guarantee if my habits follow current patterns. Anywhere from a day to a month.

Compromises. The one I hadn't thought about was riding conditions. Its a good point! I do take passengers on some amazingly bad roads on the KLR sometimes but more often it is not-so-bad dirt roads at worst.

[Walkabout]

[QUOTE=MountainMan;432613]

It's all a tradeoff as mentioned but I certainly found that when I had a pillion, I trended to better roads and no one had fun on the rougher tracks (rider or pillion). QUOTE]

Ain't that the truth!
If your pillion is unhappy there are ways of letting you know (at least one earlier thread has covered this topic).

In this case, since you aren't able to predict the height, weight, leg length, amount of baggage etc etc of your occasional passengers (do they come complete with helmets and other riding gear?) the compromises will just have to continue.
You certainly want a quality suspension setup with a good range of adjustment that can deal with the extra load - White Power for instance.

[Bigdon]

I'm an old KLR rider that has done a few miles two up on the KLR. I also have some two up miles on a DR 650. The KLR has quite a bit more room than the DR but the Wife liked the DR better.
We also have had a 800 GS. I liked it but just never Loved it.
I have an 1150 GS Adventure that is really good Two Up on the Highway and OK in mild Off road.
I have recently acquired a 2010 990 Adventure. It pegs the and handles great on or off road ,alone or two up. The only problem , the Wife does not like to go Fast and the 990 LOVES FAST!

I have not got into servicing the bike yet and know nothing about parts availability. It seems like most people that own a 9xx Love them. I know why, they are seriously FUN and comfortable Two up!

[othalan]

Originally Posted by Walkabout

(do they come complete with helmets and other riding gear?)

I actually carry a spare helmet and gloves. Worth the nuisance when I'm not using them. I insist on real shoes and long pants. I then mention the risks and leave everything up to the conscience of my passenger. Some passengers have come with their own gear...

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by othalan

I actually carry a spare helmet and gloves. Worth the nuisance when I'm not using them. I insist on real shoes and long pants. I then mention the risks and leave everything up to the conscience of my passenger. Some passengers have come with their own gear...

Love 'em and and leave them - it's much easier.