[QUOTE=mollydog;111515]

BMW's LOOK GOOD, but don't live up to the LOOK!
They never really have.....

Margus kind of represents the tough old guard of BMW owners.

You still see some old guys like Margus,

to perpetuate the mythology that surrounds BMW.

What crap.


Really? So you've ridden one eh?

.................................................. .........
Despite Mollydogs remarks, sampled above, this is....

An excellent thread, fired by passion - this is good stuff. Threads like this are a treasure, despite the odd nasty post. Don't lose this energy because of minor irritants.

The quality end of the debate is represented by Margus, who avoids rumour, gossip and abuse, gives facts and figures, and argues with reason and logic. He is clearly not blindly loyal to any bike or manufacturer, but judges them on merit and suitability for purpose. We have benefited from his comments and how he presents them. That includes people like me who don't ride a BMW, but who certainly value the bikes that BMW produces. Who couldnt?

The shabby end is represented by Mollydog's threats to punch people and how tough he is, his "ass puppet" remarks to one who dared to disagree with him, and his argument, which seems to rely on hearsay and bias. He boasts that in a bar, he always wins. In bars which I frequent, he would end up with his sorry, battered face in the urinal. Some of his comments above give the nature of the man. It seems that if he is losing a debate, he resorts to needling others. But when he's on easy, safe ground, he's harmless, and is a very jolly read. But when required to think outside the box, he cant do it. He is unable to handle Margus's last comment about the endless BMW bashers - that it's all about the rider, not the bikes, which are simply passing consumer goods, to be changed like a pair of boots.

This is a good and energetic thread, and I hope Mollydog doesnt spoil it for others. But dont get rid of him. Unpleasant he is - troubling he is not. If you met him on the road you'd "lose" him right away. I think we are all big boys and girls and we know how to deal with the likes of him.

And it keeps him off the road!


Margus is not "old guard" - he is actually quite young. I think old Mollydog likes to provoke.

Thanks for the comments James. I was just interested really. And, I promise not to punch you out... There are as many reasons to not like a bike as to like one and human shape, size, and desires all play a part.

I didn't mean to compare any brand (Suzuki) just interested if any real data is out there. I have owned a Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, KTM, Ducati and Montessa and a number of different bikes within that. Not to mention my BMW - and found them all to be awesome in one way or another - which I think is true of most bikes - with some notable exceptions.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for any hard data and make sure it gets up on the site... I might even ask my friend who owns a BMW, Yamaha, Ducati dealership if he could get me some... but I think that might mean BMW punches him out...

Either way I guess the most important thing is I am happy with my purchase and the only thing wrong with it so far is I don't get enough time on it.

Hope to see you out there,

PS Caminando - well said

Dean

Don't delete the post!

It proves that the moderators here like to open a can of worms (Vincent Danna, moderator, started this thread twice).

But it looks like post(s) have been deleted already. At least one post (between #79 and #80) is deleted and it looks a bit strange because #80 quotes from this post.

It might be smart to only delete the text in the post not the entire post. Deleting parts of a discussion without telling the readers is not nice!

Nice one Hendikaf!

I agree about Mollydog's ego - this leads to bias and not clear discussion. Concentrate on Margus's posts for real feedback and instructive comments....- and then follow your own values.

Very perceptive, Alibaba!

Yes Dean - a very interesting post which offers good comment in opposition to bias and needling.

We are lucky to live in a time when we have so many fabulous bikes to choose from. I think it's fantastic when I think of the old bangers I started on. I refer to bikes of course.

But we're still stuck with people who bleat about "mine is better than yours"; such juvenile rubbish.

Well, I've read a fair amount of this thread and my eyeballs have started to dry out and shrivel, so I'd thought I'd post now, rather than wait any longer.

Firstly, I don't have stacks of facts and figures, just my own experience and that of people I've met. That has been mixed. My back ground? Well, I've been riding since I was 19, so 14 years and I've owned quite a few bikes. The GS 1150 is the most recent: bought specifically for a trip through Argentina and Chile, two-up with my girlfriend (which this site helped with enormously!!).

Prior to the GS, I had never owned a big trailie. Its turned out to be one of the best, most fun bikes I've ever owned. no problems on the trip: all 7500 miles (12,000 km approx). The bike was very heavily laden with stuff for two ( two-up and fully paccked the bike was about 500kg as measured in the customs warehouse), most of which we never used as is often the case with first time over landers. The bike did beautifully, even though I had never done off-road before it coped with the Carretera Austral, Ruta 40 etc without missing a beat. It was never going to break speed records, but it took it in its stride and performed for us.

So was it the only choice for us? Well, I've heard reliability complaints and its well known that people will complain if all goes wrong, but keep schtum if it goes well. Having said that I've met a number of people who have had plenty of miles from their bikes when others would have died. Not a friend of a friend, but face to face meetings: one owner had 180000 miles on his GS, before a log hit at 60 mph shoved the gearbox output bearing out of place. My BM mechanic sold one with 98000 miles and he has seen plenty reach very high mileages. Then again, my dad's 1150RT appears to have lost compression in one cylinder at relatively low miles, so who knows.

Its also worth remembering that a RTW trip really punishes a bike and if a lot of peple have picked BMs: you are bound to hear a lot of stories of mechanical problems: doesn't mean they're all crap. If as many Stroms, or Varaderos had been RTW, perhaps they might come off badly at times too...

Thing is, as a two up travelling couple, we were stuck for choice and an air-cooled comfortable twin shaft-drive bike with a good reputation ,the GS seemed a good choice. Other options for the load we carried? The varadero? No thanks the Africe Twin: not powerful enough for me. The V-strom: The oil cooler where it was did not inspire confidence and did not look as solid.

Would a Strom or Dero have done better? Perhaps: I have no idea. But the GS did beautifully, as far as I'm concerned.

There are very few bikes that I have frequently heard reaching high mileages: Pan European, VFR 750, CBR 1000F, CX 500, NTV 650 and an number of K-series triples and Boxer twins. The latter is the only big-two up capable trailie. I'm sure that there are XTZs, A-twins, etc that have also had big miles on them trouble-free, I just haven't heard it said time and again.

Would I use it again for such a trip? Yes, certainly
Would I use one if I was alone? No, I'd get a XR400 with a 22l tank.

My ideal RTW bike? air cooled, shaft, carb'ed but newer than an R80. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem the market is heading that way.

Bottom line: am I going to buy a bike because of other peoples opinions, if I disagree? No. I though the GS was the bike for the job and so far it has not proved me wrong.

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

I should've seen this before now, the previously banned Denis now back contributing to this website as he did before.

A couple of thoughts from a newbie:

1. Reference a particular query a short time ago about the moderation of this thread - - please don't remove the information; it is far better than any stuff that is written by the journos in our so called biking publications (mostly filled with advertisements and you have to wonder "who is paying the journalists to say what") - deal with the miscreants as you will but leave the thread itself for the fairly silent majority to enjoy (there are loads of people, I would wager, who are dipping into this one at regular intervals, just as I do).

2. Warthogs' last posting on here is an excellent piece of clear expression of personal views.
Most bikes that he lists as achieving high mileages (with relative lack of trouble presumably) are older models of Hondas as it happens - is that a coincidence? For my money, you can add the Honda Blackbird and the Yam 900 Diversion (shaft drive) to that short list.
I can't see the market going back to carbs, not in the so called first world countries anyway, but simpler is better is the basic premise for RTW?
Apart from shaft drive, how about the belt drive of the 800cc BMW now on the market that is coming out with a GS version in the near future (but likely to have a chain in GS guise). Yes, I have heard that belts are no good off-road (and there are those who say shaft drive is no use off-road either), but there are belts made of kevlar I understand that can deal with that issue. Finally, it all depends on what you mean by "off-road". My wife knows the term in a completely different way to me!

Apologies:
to anyone who finds this post too much off topic from the main idea of Beemers getting RTW - as many say, you can go around the world on any bike.

__________________
Dave

I'm so sorry Lone Rider. I'm going to delete my post and I hope that this means we can kiss and make up. Will you be my friend?

Please?

Alibaba,
If you click on the little blue arow in the quote you mention, you can see that the post has been deleted by the person who posted it. Not by a moderator.

As far as cans of wurms are concerned: They can be very interesting, but it does require some dicepline and courtesee. Unfortunatly not everybody poseses these qualities and that is what the moderators are for. (And they use the Personal Messages, not the tread itself.)

Enjoy the can of wurms. Personaly I think the largest part of it is a very serious and respectable discusion.

Maarten

__________________
maartensworld.com
beyond-anywhere.com

Sorry about this but I still don’t see how I can see who has deleted the post and I still think the post (without text) should remain after it’s deleted so readers can understand that something is deleted.
IMHO it should not be possible to delete (and maybe modify) posts.

Going for a ride, have a nice day!

I do not know if it has been the hoo haa here or the slow machinations of my own brains cogs, but for some time i have held off doing some trips, thinking I would be better served with an enfield. However, my bike 1985 r80rt is a good bike on the tarmac. Off road a total pig, would rather ride my old triumphs ( any of them) on black ice. The 80's are a tad smoother than the 100's and above even if not so fuel efficient. So this summer i shall be clearing out some cobwebs.
In other words, any bike will do, especially the one you have.

The Truth.

[QUOTE=, any bike will do,[/QUOTE]

Some just better than others!!