BMW 800GS, Triumph 800XC or Ténéré XTZ 660?
 

Hi folks,

I am planning a trip next year to do London to Everest, yeah!!!! Its gona be epic!!! Lots of planning to do!!! Starting with choosing the best bike for such ride. I want a middleweight bike, so, I have 3 bikes on my mind to choose. First, the great New Yamaha Tenere XTZ660, second, the reliable BMW F800GS and third, the new Triumph 800XC.
I tested all of them and I had the following results:
Tenere: A bit too tall for my height (5"4) but we can get a kit to lower it down... anyway, bike looks great, well built, extreme reliable, but the single cilinder vibrates a lot, is quite uncomfortable for long journeys, your hands and arms get completely numb after few miles, this really annoy me, I am not sure if I can get used to it.
BMW F800GS: very confortable, two cilinders make it more smooth, smart, reliable as Tenere, very good looking and lots of good accessories available to built the bike for such journey. I was very pleased testing this bike, my impression was really good.
Triumph 800XC: for me, the winner in confort, power and smoothness, the three cilinders make a big diference, the bike rides like a street bike but it is an adventure bike, the torque, the driving position, everything was superior compared with the two preview bikes. I would pick this one for my trip, BUT... is a Triumph... Its a bike that doesn't sell all over the world like Yamahas and BMWs, mechanics around the world are not familiar with this brand, I rarely see people traveling around the world using Triumphs...

My question here is: even with all this Triumph issues, I really like the bloody 800XC, but, can I rely on this new Triumph generation? What you guys recon? Should I forget the Triumph and choose between the 660XTZ and F800GS or not?

Thanks guys!

J

XT660Z, no question.

1. Cheaper.
2. Simpler - can service with virtually the kit that comes with the bike.
3. Most reliable.
4. Lightest and most rugged.
5. Longest range and largest fuel tank.

DOI - XT660Z owner, bought after extensive research for similar trip and also considered those bikes.

Trumpet - too heavy and too new; Beemer - about as reliable as a DC10 and half as trustworthy.

I love the Tenere and in fact it cruises at 80 mph with on problem; vibes do not bother me. Cruise at 65-70 for best economy, but it will shift if you are in a hurry.

Love it.

IMHO that you should stick with your pick of the Triumph. I wouldn't worry too much about the availability of mechanics who might familiar with the specific brand, in developing countries big bikes are usually fairly rare so a person is typically happy to just find a mechanic with any previous exposure to any large foreigner bikes.

Usually most people leave with an attitude of self sufficiency, bolstered with a few critical spare parts, a repair manual, a bag of tools and some basic mechanical skills. Actual mechanical shops or availability of parts enroute are a total bonus.

Some people notice vibration, some don't. You can mitigate with some aftermarket solutions (eg. bar snake, bar ends, etc.) but based on your comments, sounds like it's an issue for you so you may want to avoid singles unless you can find a solution that works for you.

I totally agree:thumbup1::thumbup1:
I have just bought one for my ride from the UK to Thailand this year and then onto AUZ/NZ 2013, very simple bike, super reliable, had few problems with rectifiers on the 2008 model, and its basically only the cush rubbers that seem to be a bit of a issue with some bikes{riders}. As for vibration i have no problem with the bike since i fitted the hand guards, maybe not as fast as the other two, the speed limit to me is fast enought.
They also seem to keep their price very well.

Eric

Xt660z
 

Hi, i own and am a big fan of the Tenere but have also considered the other bikes you mention. Offroad the Tenere wins easily and has excellent reliabilty and the big tank with excellent mpg can acheive 300+ mile range (from previous ride reports into that region long tank range is essential).
BMW good road bike but i didn't like it off road, small tank.
Triumph is a bike i have never ridden but for a long road trip with some easy offroad would be a good choice. Andy

choice of bike
 

I looked at the same bikes recently and I also found the Triumph superior over the other two so I bought .....an Africa Twin, 30% of the price, at least as reliable, probably alot more so, Honda, no complex electronics, is serviced all over the place, 2 cylinders very comfy. Lots of kit available but inessence you don't have to add all kind of expensive kit because it has been designed for the job. The Beemer and Triumph have much less protection in the standard outfitting. Adding kit will be extremely expensive too. The AT maybe not as sexy as the newer bikes but that can be changed too and you will still keep a heap of money in your pocket.

Good a very good one, only 22K km for E4000,-

Cheers,
Noel

I agree 100% with you Noel, and I bought an Africa Twin last year too, 1998, 12k miles, like new! But I realized that it was too big and too heavy for me, I am not a big bloke, just 5"4, 70kg! So, I sold it few months ago... I need a middleweight adventure bike, thats why I am looking for those 3 ones.

cheers,

Rode my F800GS 74,000km...too many issues to list...swapped it for a XT660Z Tenere five months ago and just finished my trip with 28,000km on it, I have to say the only thing that failed was a head light bulb....and guess what it was a Osram bulb made in Germany!! The cush drive rubbers are a little bit crap , a few mods like new air filter, Power comander, rear shock, front springs, new exhaust, stronger handle bars, new seat (All mods from OFFTHEROAD Germany) and lower gearing and the bike is awesome....even with the mods it was 50% cheaper than the F800GS!!...its also not just the bike.... its having to put up with BMW dealers around the world...90% of them are absolutly useless and rip you off!...BMW does not stand behind their warranty as I found out and it should be BMW unstoppable (but only if you stay close to Munich and do not do any more than 1000km per year!)

Go Yamaha XT, I do not think there is anything on the market that comes close...love Honda AT's but too expensive for such an old bike, I really notice no difference in terms of comfort or power from the F800GS to the XT....but enjoy riding the XT so much more!

I would stick with the Beemer.. I have a 2008 GS with 45000km and only thing I have ever changed was the battery and a light bulb..

Reading posts here it looks like BMW are the most unreliable bikes on the planet.

Truth is everything will eventually break but if you look at numbers or you do a Google search you find way more reported issues about BMWs just because they are sold in the hundred of thousands (like the 1200GS alone..)

Are they more expensive??? Hell yeah but I do believe the quality is top.

choice of bike
 

I looked at the weights too and found the weight difference between the BMW, Tiger, XT660Z and the AT relatively small where the the XT is relatively heavy for a one cylinder bike! They are all around 183-185 kg. The AT is some 22kg heavier (dry weight) than the others but it already has big 24 litre tank while the GS and the XC have only 18 litre! The XT has 22 litre.

I am relatively new with the bike stuff and the AT is my first bike, done more (actually a lot) 4x4 travelling. So is that 22 kg difference really so noticeable on a bike?

When you start outfitting it, the weight difference is practically lost I think because the AT does not need a whole lot of protection, its already there. Also, I think there is more to win in packing sensibly than in buying the lighter bike. And is that worth so much money?

cheers,
Noel

Ok you can do 45,000km in Australia but that certainly isn't using crap fuel in third world countries, The Tenere is low compression and can handle a lot lower quality of fuel than the highly strung F800GS, my friend who also rode the Americas with me had exactly the same issues which are actually quite common with these bikes, I am not commenting on the 1200GS because I dont have experince on this bike but I know for a fact the the F800GS is a lemon for riding around the world, wait to your fan jams from dust in TDF, water pump fails (4 times) back wheel explodes at 35,000km in Chile and BMW blames the roads and wants to charge US$2500 for a new back wheel, magneto fails in the middle of the Atacama desert and you miss following the Dakar with your mates, bike stops for no reason in the US (Software update according to BMW Denver) countless fuel breakdowns in Boliva and Peru, as for quality please explain why BMW charges 25 Euros for crap Tawianese wheel bearings? bad quality Czech Republic chains that snap...etc etc.

As for sales of bikes, european built bike sales have been in decline for the last four years, Honda for example has sold 60 million cub's, Yamaha last year sold 157,731 units that's almost as much as all the European manufacturers combined in 2011, BMW sell around 4000-5000 units in a good month so the number argument doesn't stack up, BMW come up with problems in Google searches because they have a high amount of problems, did you see any European cars in the top 15 of reliabilty surveys for example?...No because its mostly Japanese who have got the engineering down to a fine art, I know people are sensitive about the bikes they own but sorry the F800GS is no "Around the world" bike and never will be!...I also bought into the BMW hype and it cost me a huge amount of cash and plenty of stress, so unless you buy into the whole "You meet the nicest people when you breakdown" thing, I however prefer to enjoy the trip and not worry about when my bike will break down next and keep my money for (In no particular order) fuel, Ladies and beer

Update: I checked out the new 2013 F800GS and I see they now have a New water pump and Rear hub, funny how they keep these changes very secret and when I tried to claim on warranty they told me they had never heard of a rear hub bearing breaking apart....still wouldnt trust it!

WELL SAID MY MAN:clap:

No
 

Go tenere or triumph. Or xtz1200. 51000 MILES and no issues?? Nick Sanders latest record. You can get a brand new pre reg for £10000. Imagine not having to oil your chain and not being a BMW charley boringman wannabe???

Go with what makes you feel good, even if it is a BMW.

Ramble over

If a Beemer, I´d go look for an good-as-new F650 Dakar. Rock solid stuff if an Africa Twin is oversized for you; excellent mileage, great weight distribution.
Cheers
Chris

I just picked up my 3rd BMW in 4 years (I put a lot of milage on them), all of them 2nd hand - I like other people to fight BMW to have the illnesses fixed before I get them.

I am not BMW biased, nor any other brand, I have a short list of things I want, and pick the one which gets the most check marks. I was looking at the XT660, and it is very interesting, but the one thing which kept me with BMW was that, I'm 6'3" and 110kg... if I would live closed to interesting parts of the world I would have picked it, but unfortunately I have ~1000-2500km to my favorite vacation places, which means lots of transit.

But I think that all vendors produce lemon bikes, does not matter which brand, they all sometimes produce something which will cause lots of tears, and the only thing one can hope for is that one is close to home when it happens.

Over the years there have been lots of writing about what is the best thing for a RTW trip, and most people disagree on what it is. Only thing I've concluded is that I pick what I want, and live the consequences (and I unfortunately do not have the option to do a RTW). BMW have produced some really excellent bikes like the R80/R100, or Honda with the TransAlp/African Twin, or Yamaha with the XT series. Unfortunately these days bikes are stuffed with electronics, which makes things complicated, and due to the the hunt for HP the vendors have produced bikes with more and more HP (which most people want), instead of providing something which is easy on the fuel, not too heavy, and easy to maintain without having a computer at hand.

I think lots of people where kind of disappointed when Yamaha came out with the 1200... lots of people had hoped for a 800 V2, build in the same way as the XT660 - I for one was one of them...

For any serious travel (meaning very far a way from home) I would choose something like the XT660, or maybe an 2000-2003 Transalp... and leave my F800GS at home...

btw. I had 3 interesting years with a Triumph..... not impressed at all :oops2:

Casper

The way round... with an Royal Enfield.
 

You know what... I'm really thinking about doing the way round, instead doing London-Everest, I would do Everest-London.

Get a flight to Mumbai (which is quite cheap from London), buy a Royal Enfield Bullet 350cc there, than, get the road to Everest, and than, come back home riding! I think it will be much more interesting, cheaper (don't need to ship the bike back and an Enfield will be much cheaper, easy to fix and definitely more classic to do such adventure than a Yamaha Tenere!).

What do you think about it folks? Do you know anyone who has done this before?

Cheers mates!

Joas

The great thing about Royal Enfields is that you can easily perform roadside repairs any time any place. The downside is that you have to perform roadside repairs any time any place. I distinctly remember talking to a couple who did something similar to what you're thinking about. They flew to India, bought two Royal Enfields and travelled around Asia. Both bikes lost their mirrors on the first day, they just fell off, and random parts just kept vibrating loose and falling off each day ;)

All joking aside, it's absolutely doable. You should be apt to do bike maintenance yourself because with a Royal Enfield you will have to sooner or later. It will get you back home though, no worries there.

If you have concerns about the Triumph, get yourself over to the Triumph RAT forum and ask around. I have a Sprint and no experience of the 800, but the word seems to be that modern Triumphs are very reliable indeed.

Tiger - Triumph Forum: Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums

never been a fan of beemers, ever ? love the xt had 5 3 months ago bought a tiger 955 with a few glitches but getting them sorted triple motor is bullet proof as with the 800.
just been messing on it really only done 5000 miles in 3 months and it just keeps going, thought i would not make a distance bike but am inclined to think again ?
a few mods first getting the front wheel laced to a 21inch rim, just recieved hagon progressive front springs which will help the front handeling, found a place in stowmarket that will custom build me a rear dialiable shock ( about £300 ) think i am going to give it a go next year fancy London to everest - Nepal - South India ?

Just gone through this. In the end I bought a Wee-Strom, I need euro capable 2-up and efficient not RTW. If I did need RTW I'd have gone with the Ten. I'd agree with a lot of the comments above, but the big thing that put me off the Triumph in particular was the dealers attitude. There were actually less open to the idea of riding further than Starbucks than a BMW dealer I know from experience are a right bunch of "they all do SSSSSsssir" type idiots. They knew I'd ride the bike and didn't have a 3 month old R1200GS to trade (their showroom was full of those) and just weren't interested. They offered 75% of what Suzuki bought my Bonneville for against a new bike that would have been 50% more. If the too big, too new, too expensive Tiger did break I think you'd be better calling Japan for help than Hinckley and if you had a trade in you'd be glad of the extra petrol money.

The comments on the Bullet made me smile. The frequency of simple fixes in my experience is infrequent. Two clutch cables and a loose wire in two years, actually less time on the hard shoulder than some BMW's I've owned. If you can tune your mind to 30 mph instead of 45 and understand pushrods and carbs, this would IMHO really add to the Everest to London experience.

Andy

Sorry but this isn't true. In Europe the TDM has been one of the most popular bikes in it's category along with the Weestrom and it is rock steady reliable,as is the Wee. Bikes, with the odd exception, do not break unless there are inherent problems to the model. My last bike was a Transalp and you couldn't break one if you tried, as long as you maintained the thing. How many units have they shifted?

I stopped for a chat with a couple of V-Strom owners yesterday. One of the bikes was a 2005 model with 98,000 (158,000 km) miles on the clock. Nothing but routine servicing. I am in the market for something like this myself, and I was quite impressed, because the bike didn't really look cared for either, if you know what I mean.

I'd have to (partially) dispute this.

You can service practically anything on the bike with a very simple toolkit, but it's not the toolkit Yamaha give you - you can't even get the wheels out with it.

Otherwise, entirely agree with you.

Alright smartypants, you need a 23mm spanner and some feeler gauges as well, but otherwise my statement is correct. :rolleyes2:

That is why I added the word 'virtually' into the sentence.

If your route has any amount of off tarmac in it you would probably be better with a single rather than the multi's. I have no experience of the tenere but by all accounts it is a very capable travel bike and this is the bike I would choose from your list.

Another option would be a bmw Xchallenge. While it doesn't have the same tank range as the tenere as standard, the money you would save on purchase price would allow you to but either an Xtank or the Touratech auxiliary tank and give you cash left over for your trip. You also get a bike with better suspension and fuel economy.

I do like the Enfield idea though.

Plus a 14mm hex to remove the front wheel. :(
Why don't bike manufacturers provide a proper tool kit as standard?

My choice in order of preference would be
1. Tenere
2. F650GS single or Dakar
3. G650GS single or Sertao
4. F650GS twin
5. F800GS
6. 800XC
7.
8.
9. Bullet

If you want to buy a bike in India and ride it home, look at what the locals are buying, Honda Hero and the like. Only about 160cc but as fast as a 500cc Enfield and far more reliable.

we never got the africa twin here in oz
 

But we did get the varadero Honda,it's a thousand cc but ive had one for 11yr's and all ive replaced is chains /sprockets one set of fork seal's ,and a fuel lift pump(about $120 aus) so honda all the way for me .I agree the vibing handle bars on some bikes just ruin the ride.Ive owned a lot of yamaha's mostly good ,service seams to depend how good your local shop is.I have mates with triumph's mixed reports some very good some friday arvo bikes ,soon traded.best of luck with your choise,Noel

So why does every thread about X-Challenges I see on forums talk about upgrading the suspension then?

I am almost sure that you can't get out of India with a Enfield. I wanted to do it back in 2007, and I was told that you're not allowed to exit the country with it.

Has it changed?

I've got a Triumph 955i Tiger. It's 11 years old and has 50,000 miles on it.

I've never had a bike this old with so many miles, in such great condition. The build quality is very good and it just feels quality.

I've never had a more reliable bike and I've had 50 bikes in the last ten years.

If the new Triumphs are built as well as the original Tigers, then I'd be happy to take it RTW.

I've sold the Sprint now, and got a F650GS instead. It was the same 955i engine as yours, although in a slightly different state of tune. It was an awesome motor, useable from city commuting to blasting the autobahns with equal ease. The only issue I had was oil consumption, which I believe is a problem with some of the 955 bikes (not sure about the 1050s). With high-speed use, it was drinking a litre every 1000 miles, less with more moderate use. Although Triumph argue that this is 'within acceptable limits', I would say it was unacceptably high for a modern bike. My XT (30k hard miles, 800 bodging owners before me) uses precisely zero litres between changes, so it can be done.

I would think twice about taking that bike on a RTW trip just on the oil issue, but if yours is a good one (luck of the draw, I think), then I would agree - brilliant motor and excellent overall build quality. Triumph have got it right, pretty much.

Wow.. that is high.. I have read people experiencing this. It tends to be a lottery. The general consensus (aka forum talk), seems to suggest an over gentle running in period and/or the type of oil.

Mine hasn't burnt a drop since I've had it. And I ride it like it should be ;)

I wouldn't take mine RTW either. For a start it's too heavy and top heavy at that. As a road bike and a tourer though, I LOVE IT !!

I think 'lottery' sums it up. Bike magazine had one on long-term test ( I think a 955 Tiger, but not certain) and thought that modern bikes didn't need the oil checking. They ran it dry and wrecked it, and Triumph weren't too pleased. Bike argued that a modern bike shouldn't use that much oil (and I agree). Triumph responded that a competent owner should check the oil in any case (and I agree with that too). But then Triumph tried to argue that one litre per 1000 miles was an acceptable (and even an 'industry standard') level of consumption. I call BS on that. I have owned a long string of old, knackered, neglected bikes in my time, but I have never had a bike that used oil at that rate.

To be fair, that rate of oil consumption was achieved 2-up on French and German motorways, moderately hot weather, and cruising for the most part between 90 and 110 mph. In normal use, it used about half as much. I posted a query on the Triumph RAT forum (mainly US-based) and got a variety of responses from 'mine uses none at all' to 'mine uses more than yours, but it's a Triumph and that's the price of character'.

If yours is a good one, it's a keeper, as it is possibly the best real-world road-bike motor I have ever had - with the possible exception of Ducati's awesome 992 cc Desmodue V-twin. But 1 cc of oil per mile travelled was a deal-breaker for me. I realised that for the next extended trip I would need to plan for oil supplies as well as everything else, and it would be easier to take the oiltight XT instead :)

(Funnily enough, it seemed to use less oil, and run better, with semi-synth rather than full synth. Full synth ruined the gearchange.)

Suzuki DRZ400
 

Thanks guys for so many replies! But I finally had my decision, I'm not going to take a BMW 800GS, or the Triumph 800XC, nether the Tenere XTZ660! I am gonna take the Suzuki DRZ400! It's much lighter, only 119kg (dry), almost no electronic apart the starter, easier to fix and find parts and finally, very reliable. That's the right machine!

By the way, any tips for it?

Cheers,

Joas

Wade through the threads in here is one option for information:-
Suzuki Tech - Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB

There's been some recent discussion about the various models sold in different markets; the concensus was that you do not want to buy the enduro "E" model which is too specialised (for which I mean highly tuned with a weak subframe as the main points) for overlanding.

I rode one UK-South Africa in 10/11. I know it inside and out.

My website has most of the info on the prep I did.

Touring Ted - look for 'DRZ Prep' on the menu.


The ESSENTIAL things to do are..

Loctite the stator and pick-up bolts.
Fit 'case savers' to the engine cases (cases are cheese)
Change oil every 2-3000 miles and check it OFTEN. It only takes 1900cc.
larger tank. Clark 15L gets you about 200-220 miles. There is a HUGE 28L Safari tank available too but it's expensive.

Apart from that it's a VERY reliable bike. Don't expect anything more than 60-65mph though.

And PACK VERY LIGHT - I can't stress that enough. It's not a touring bike and the suspension and engine won't thank you for dragging the kitchen sink along.


There is a lot of stuff you can do for "uncorking".

Removing the PAIR valve, removing the carb solenoid.
You can also jet and fit a Scorpion exhaust for more BHP.


If you have anymore questions, feel free to PM me :thumbup1:



HOWEVER........... If I was doing the trip again, I'd of gone with the XT660Z Tenere. 20,000 miles was just too much on a DRZ400 for my ass. lol

First tip is dont kid yourself about the weight. Thats the E model, which you would not really want to take adventuring as it has no subframe, no instruments, lumpier cam, only runs on high octane fuel and is not street legal.

The normal S version of the DRZ is 133 - 134 kgs dry.

Da ! Emphatically.

And it's weight is HIGH. Rides with less graceful balance than my considerably heavier KTM 950 in the tight, slow stuff.

The FCR carb and the slightly higher compression are a drag for RTW and crap fuel. Especially the FCR in colder times or higher elevations.

The S/SM are much better & easier for your goals, IMHO. And the suspension components on the SM, at least the front forks, are much better.

And that's before you larger tank, radiator guards, screen etc.

But you might end up doing that to any bike.



Still, it's pretty lightweight compared to most.

I ragged the arse off a drz 400 sm round France in 2007,to world enduro round at noiretable,around some of the course on the Thursday..which you wouldn't entertain on the panzer BMW gs or ktm 990 etc.then on to Spain where it went most places in the dry that I've taken a proper dirtbike in the hills surrounding where some friends live.
It's not got the longest of legs on the motorways but it can do them,but with bubble wrap on the seat and a 15 litre Clarke tank it done from figueres back up to dieppe in a day..silencer melted the number plate and right hand throw over pannier was incinerated after...if I was going longer distance would just ride it a bit more gently..
It's a very capable bike..if your not in too much of a hurry.

I just want to add in reference to the Japanese reliability, I have a 2009 Honda CBR600RR, my choice of touring bike, sorry guys i love it. The bike has been ridden 50,000 kms since its first day all in PAKISTAN. I've taken it to the KKH many times and Kashmir, Gawadar. Quetta on the list to do.

The only thing I have done as yet is change oil, oil filter and wash the K&N filter, change chain kit due to wear over 40000kms. The only thing that I have changed out of the regular maintenance is the chain tensioner, only recently.

Knowing that the petrol here is not that good and I have never put hi-octane, never changed spark plugs as yet, the Japanese have definitely perfected these machines as compared to BMW. (owned a F650GS before this).
I have a sports bike but knowing the kind of problems I may experience with a beemer, I would rather go around the world on my honda CBR

Regards,
Zoeed "Madman" Arshad

Check out: Zoeed Arshad

Your original question was a choice of 3 bikes for the long trip. BMW. I have had my eye on the same bikes. I came away with the conclusion that the BMW would be the most durable of the three in an off road beat down.
old man on a kid's bike,
klxsquirrel