Which bike for a petite learner with dreams of riding across Africa?
 

Hi guys!

So here's the thing - I have a long-held dream to travel across the length of Africa by motorcycle, and finally I'm taking the first step: I'm getting my Motorcycle Learner Permit this week, yee ha!

I'm doing my initial training on a Suzuki 250, but as soon as I have my permit I want to buy my own bike so I can get as much riding experience in before applying for my Licence in a few months' time.

I'm a petite gal (5'2) and really need advice about what bike to buy. I've been looking at 125cc and 250cc machines so far, as I don't fancy anything that will crush me to bits when (not if!) I fall off! There are some nice bikes around but a lot of them have high seats and I'm not sure I want to get into the whole seat-lowering thing at such an early stage of my motorcycling career... Given my plan to ride across Africa once I get my licence and feel competent on a bike, I ideally want to practise on something not dissimilar to what I may take to Africa - something that's good on the road, but off-road too.

Really keen to get advice on this, as my bike knowledge at this point is zero and you guys all seem like a very knowledgeable lot!!

Jeanie :mchappy:

I would consider the Honda CRF230L, or the kawasaki KLR250, or whatever kawi calls it anymore. they're fairly low, but still respectable bikes. the Honda is better in my book, but I'm biased to Honda and Yamaha bikes.

Then again, I'm also a short person, much like you, and I'm on an XT600. I can nearly flatfoot a KLR650 too. in the right work boots I actually can. its more a matter of knowing how to shift your body position to get one foot firmly on the ground than both in my book.

I'd avoid any of the chinese stuff like the plague. never seen anything good about them, and the fit/finish, as well as build quality, are sub par with Jap standards to which I'm accustomed.

Hey thanks for your advice, bobthebiker!

I'll certainly check out the Honda and Kawi models you mention. And noted re avoiding Chinese stuff - a couple of other people have said exactly the same thing!

Still unsure, though, whether 125cc or 250cc at this stage - from a learner's point of view, I wonder if it would be better to start first on a 125, to gain confidence on the bike, then progress up to a 250 if I decide I want something bigger. My biggest worry (apart from seat height) is being able to control the machine and not feel it's too unwieldy while I get to grips with my riding skills - but then again, some of the 250s I've seen are actually quite light... :confused1:

Jeanie :mchappy:

Hello Jeanie, check out xt225.com I've never met anyone whose got a bad word to say about them(apart from the seat!), soft power,low seat,easy to ride and reliable

My wife is 5'2 and only a sml frame and she has 2 bikes, an XT 250 & F650gs
She loves them both.
Cheers
Paul:scooter:

Im 5'2 too!!!
 

I rode a Honda XR250 from Bangkok to Moscow two years ago, and Im about to leave again from Brisbane Australia bound for Africa overland. This time im on a DR350.

Before I left last time, I had only been riding for 6 months max! You just have to get out there and do it! Its the best thing ever. Dont to be too shy on a having a smaller bike. A 250cc is the smallest you should go for - i really like the light weight dirt bike style- especially if your good at traveling lightly.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM! GOOD LUCK!

Definitely NOT the CRF230, I have one for green laning and you would find it very uncomfortable for longish distances, and Honda recommend oil changes every 600 miles! This is probably due to there being just a gauze filter and no proper one, this is no problem for myself due to relatively short distances covered.

Hey thanks, guys, for all your advice so far!

I must say that I'm very drawn to Yamahas, purely as an aesthetic thing, and the XT250 really looks the part in terms of an "adventure bike". My initial research seems to suggest that the XT225 Serow is harder to come by, at least in this part of the world (Melbourne, Australia) - or am I just looking in the wrong places?!

And maximondo, I'm really encouraged by your post and your advice to just get out there and do it! I was a little worried that I might not have enough riding experience under my belt by the time I head off towards the horizon, but what better than to learn on the road, eh?! Good luck with your upcoming trip to Africa and travel safe!

Jeanie :mchappy:

Hi Jeannie,

an XT225 or XT250's the way to go!

In Oz the 225 model is sometimes badged as a 250.

The highlight for me at the HUBB meeting at Ripley was a comment made by Austin Vince, who said 'there was no better machine for adventure riding than a Serow'! Great praise indeed!

Regards

Reggie

This was said by the same man that said Ural only make sidecar outfits!!
In the words of Thin Lizzy....'don't believe a word':rofl:

YouTube - Dont Believe a Word

Morning Dave,

I am right in saying that only Ural offer a sidecar option direct from the factory, rather than using after market providers?

Reagrds

Reggie

:offtopic: Hi Reg, I was hoping to see you this weekend, but on Sunday morning was in a big rush to get myself and ybr125 back to South London for the England game!
Am sure we will catch up at some point!
It appears that Ural do solos but have not passed certain Euro tests to be sold here. If I am wrong play this one !!

YouTube - Elton John - Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word - 1976

Hi Jeanie, Ive not got any experience of these machines but have been informed the Beta alp 4.0 is a fine machine for smaller people, fairly inexpensive using i believe a suzuki dr engine.
I shall be looking more in depth at them as my partner is verticaly challenged.
Good luck Jim

his wife made him say it. she rode a serow with much success from alaska to argentina and again on the Africa trip as well i think.

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the heads-up about the Beta Alp 4.0 - looks like a good bike for the more petite rider like me. Do you know what they're like weight-wise? Maybe it's just because I haven't spent much time on a bike yet (still learning!), but I'm doing my training on a 125cc Honda and it feels very heavy - so I'm keen to find a first bike that's light as a feather if poss!

Jeanie :mchappy:

if you want light, you have to get a sportbike, but then you lose a LOT of the capabilities that a dual purpose bike offers. from experience, a ninja 250 weighs 308 pounds, but ALL of that is low in the bike, so you dont notice it, most dual sports, you do because the weight is up higher.

the average 250 dual sport weighs roughly 200-300 pounds, with nothing on it here in te states, and it may be that I have a fair bit of muscle from working all the time, but I consider nothing heavy until its a KLR650, or an 86 ZX1000, which is a FAT PIECE OF CRAP.

I'm surprised Austin said that. The Serow is OK ... but what about the bike Austin and company rode on their Terra Circa and Mondo Enduro rides? The Suzuki DR350 is better in every way ... save one ... it's a bit taller than the low seated Serow.

Remember Lois (Lois On The Loose) was a Noob starting out on her S. America trip, but had ridden big vintage BSA's off road, so not a Noob to riding, just to RTW travel on a bike. Her first major mistake was buying a totally clapped out bike to start a 20,000 mile Alaska to Argentina ride. Can't imagine why Austin did not intervene and either do a total top to bottom rebuild on that Serow ... or burn it and start over. :smartass: Not to say Serow's are bad ... just that Lois's one was. Still, IMO, there are BETTER bikes for small women.

Readers may recall from Lois's book how that Serow caused endless delays from her first day in Alaska all the way South. Probably cost her a month just due to breakdowns and shop time alone. Not to mention money :taz:
I think she did a rebuild in every country! :rofl:
Endless streams of half assed mechanics tried and failed to fix that sorry Serow beater. It was never made right according to accounts in the book. I am amazed she made it at all. I put it down to Lois's perseverance and out
right toughness. Lois can ride, and is strong ... and wily.
:devil2:

A better beginner bike, IMHO, might be the revised XT250 over the Serow. It's a newer design, lighter weight, better power. The 25 year old Serow design is strong and reliable (Lois's was not) but Dog slow and really quite heavy for a 225cc bike. The Suzuki DR350 is a lighter bike, faster, better suspension and just as reliable. So is the Yam XT250, Yam WR250R, Kawi KLX250S, Suzuki DR250, and probably a few others.

My personal favorite in the current 250 class of dual sports would be the KLX250S. Newly revised in '09, this bike is very good and about $1000 usd cheaper than the popular new Yamaha WR250R (F.I.) (current rave bike here). The KLX would need a better seat for travel but other than that should be a winner. (handles great off road ... and can cruise nicely at 70 mph on highway)

Both the WR and KLX are a bit tall for 5'2" Jeanie but with lowering links can be lowered in 20 minutes for about $50. Leave the seat alone ... actually ... buy a better, custom seat. You'll thank me.

Jeanie,
Most bikes will get pretty heavy once you load them up for Africa. You'll need to buff up a bit and learn how to pick up a fallen bike. (back into it ... use your legs to lift)

Since you're in Oz, I'd get some off road training if you can. Will put you miles ahead in your learning curve and make you a better road rider as well. I'd get what's available in Oz and learn to ride it.
Good luck,
Safe going! :mchappy:

Hey thanks Mickey D for that really good post!

I think it was notable that Lois didn't take the Serow second time round when she went across Africa - she'd obviously learnt the hard way by then!! :laugh:

I'm still veering towards the Yamaha XT250 as it seems to have everything I'm looking for. Although...I saw a photo of a Derbi Terra Adventure yesterday and thought they looked pretty good. Anyone had any experience on one of those?

Great tips, Mickey D and bobthebiker, about handling the bike weight too. I definitely need to "buff up", as you say, and go that extra mile at the gym, haha! Plus I've been trying to use the handlebars to right the bike, when in fact it sounds like you put your back in and push from your legs...

Jeanie :mchappy:

Have a look out at a TTR as well. They're pretty common in Australia and they're bulletproof. Just can't kill them, and my wife tries here best at that. More dirt ready and cheap. Ride as many forest roads as you can, and there are plenty in Victoria. Have a look on the aussie section of ADVrider.com and join some local rides to learn some trick of the trade like picking it up.
As you get more comfortable flicking it around go on some more single trails to get use to the bike moving around. Some people find the technical stuff easier and less intimidating because the speeds are heaps lower.

I'd suggest working your way to a DRZ400E eventually. It'll be a bit heavier than the 250, but you'll 'need' the extra power to carry your stuff around. Plenty of gear available for them like a Safari tank etc. Very well made, also bulletproof and just as easy to ride as a 250 and pretty cheap in Oz as well.
The WR250R is another option but they're pretty dear and heavy for a 250.

Thanks tmotten - yeah, the TTR does look very good as well. Was that what Lois took round Africa instead of the Serow??

I've started scouring the classifieds in my area, as I think I'm going to take the plunge and make a purchase in the next couple of weeks. :biggrin3:

So if there's anyone out there in the Victoria region of Australia with a good 250cc bike for sale, let me know!

Jeanie :mchappy:

Training and experience...
 

...are just as important as seat height and weight. That's not to say you need years of riding before you set off, but you will be surprised by how soon a 125 will stop feeling very big.

My Fiancee is also a petite rider. Here in the UK the most basic training (CBT) is done on a 125, you then have the option of riding a 500+ for your full test to enable you to ride any bike. She felt too intimidated by the 500 after only 1 day of riding a 125, so did her test on a 125, and passed. Just those few days of additional training were enough to boost her confidence, and after she passed be bought a low seated 650cc road bike, which she soon felt very comfortable on.

A few months later, and we were choosing bikes for our own long trip, and now each have a BMW F800GS. Hers is lowered, but it is still quite a tall, heavy bike, and she loves it - a bit of time building her experience and confidence on the road, plus a small amount of off road training on a tall but lightweight trail bike, and she rides confidently on a bike that would have scared her silly not long ago!

I'm in no way saying that this makes an 800 the perfect machine, simply that it might be worth buying a bike to build your experience and confidence on now, but then reconsidering the ideal bike for long distance travel when you have a few more miles under your belt, closer to your departure time. You may be pleasantly surprised by how much your confidence and capabilities have improved, and how many more bikes seem ridable.

Good luck!

Wise words, Ewan, thanks - and I'm really encouraged to hear yet another story of a petite gal handling the bigger bikes absolutely fine: I think I had this image in my head that all lady bikers must be strapping ten-foot-tall bodybuilder types, hahaha!!

As you say, it might be best to buy a first bike to practise on now, then "scale up" nearer the time of my big trip to something with a bit more oomph that feels good for Africa.

Meantime, round and round the airstrip I go, practising clutch control and gear changes...

Jeanie :mchappy:

I would absolutely reccomend training also! I have a "normal" not Adventure 1200GS and a 28" inside leg, suspension at a slightly hard setting and not wound down at all, and no low seat cos its really uncomfy!! I did struggle initially, and didn't buy the taller adventure cos it felt too tall. But after several visits to a pucca off road school height is no longer an issue for me. It will be harder in some situations of course, but the training means my riding both on and off road improved so much that falling off is so much less likely, and having been shown how to pick it up thats not the struggle some people turn it into anyhow! Learn how to get on and off both sides is handy for side slopes. Heavy is still a bad thing when its on top of you though :(

Also Patsy Quick was one of the instructors, who is not only nearer 5' than I am, but is a very slight lady riding a big chunky 1200 Adventure and of course put everyone to shame :)

I recently bought a more compromise walking/riding boot made by Altberg in the UK. These have a much thicker sole than those I previously wore and thought that was why I could suddenly just touch both sides with toes extended. A while later I realised its actually because they flex a great deal more at the ankle, so use the older, stiffer more protective boots more often now!

Hey thanks for the post, grizzly7! Really good insights - and thanks too for reminding me about Patsy Quick. I saw her doing the Dakar Rally on Charley Boorman's Race To Dakar a couple of years back, and remember thinking what a cool chick she was. Really inspiring. And a petite lady too! There's hope for me yet...

Jeanie :mchappy:

I wouldn't focus on not being able to touch the ground but more getting to the point that you don't need to touch the ground. Hence thrashing a little traily through the state forrests of which there should be plenty. For this I would certainly not use walking boots but full on trail boots. There is a reason that most if not any courses don't allow you to join them without anything but those.

My wife used to drop the bike coming to a halt on dirt road intersections where the camber gets pretty steep. Than I told he to look around herself before she stops. As long as you've got forward momentum you shouldn't need to touch the ground. The trick is to have the courage to keep the feet on the pegs on the difficult stuff. As soon as you see guys with the legs wide the bike goes all over the place. Everyone struggles with this technique but it's the main basic one.

Hey Jeannie,

as many others said - after a couple of weeks of riding your motorcycle you will feel so much more confident and automatically learn a lot more about bikes! The excitement of riding will make you ride so much that it all comes automatically! It is probably unlikely that the bike you are buying now will go to Africa with you. But your first bike will give you all the experience to decide, what's good and bad on a bike, what things to look for, how to do minor repairs and maintenance. And it will give you the confidence to say what is possible on a motorbike and what is not.
Personally I am in a not too dissimilar situation. Got my NSW learners licence in January this year and it made me love riding so much that Africa is on the horizon for me too. My first choice of bike in January was the Yamaha XT250 which I believe is a great bike. However, being 6ft3 it was too small for me and I took the bigger DR-Z250 instead. Just go to a motorbike shop, they usually let you sit on their bikes and you know, which one is a good size for you. Once you know which bike you will feel happy on, you can check around for deals. I would strongly recommend a 250cc. Anything smaller may limit your enjoyment, anything bigger is heaps expensive to insure as a beginner rider in Australia.

Have fun!

Marco.

Hey thanks for your encouragement, Marco - nice to hear from someone else who's at an early stage of their riding career! I can't wait to get to the stage you're at, where the riding comes more naturally and I can concentrate on the more exciting aspects...like concretely planning my journey across Africa! :)

I've got my next motorcycle training session tomorrow and am determined to take to heart all the great advice I've been given on this forum - it's been invaluable so far!!

Have fun planning your own Africa trip, Marco - rubber sound down, eh?!

Jeanie :mchappy:

The one thing I can legitimately say is, practice is CRITICAL to confidence. practice low speed maneuvers, as well as traffic speed stuff. anytime you've got free time, practice on the bike.

dont let falling off, or dropping it scare you, or discourage you, its plenty normal to drop your first bike, to fall off, and get bumped and bruised, its part of learning.

Where I am, I started learning on a used bike that I didnt pay much for because I knew I was going to crash/drop it, and at 18, I did JUST that a few times. oh the stories I could tell you.

If your up in Brisbane over the next few months, I can take you out on my bikes - I have a DRZ250 and a DR350. You wouldn't notice a difference in the weight at all! but you will in the power.

After taking apart the Honda XR and the Suzuki DRZ & DR I feel as if the suzuki is a better built bike. Better engineered etc.... I havent tried the XT250.

Just go for it!! Buy a bike and go for it.... you can always sell it.

Im in a similar situation with my wife learing to ride and also being quite tiny.

I bought a 6 year old 2nd hand honda xl125 for my wife to practise on before trying for her full bike license.....she can drop it all she likes (and she has), it already has scratches. My wife has gained plenty of confidence.....it was a good purchase. This will be sold once she has passed her license and possibly replaced with a XT250.

I have the XT600, 2002 model......I dont know much about the XT250. Which years model is the best to buy for reliability and ease to fix ? - are there any similarities between the 600 and 250 which could mean us taking fewer duplicate spares on our Africa trip?

Thanks

Jeanie - you're an inspiration!
I've been reading this thread with interest as I too am a short rider (5' 2" with a 29" inside leg). However, I've been riding bikes for almost 30 yrs but have never ridden off road, but in recent years have become more interested in it.

As many have advised, as you gain experience, you will realise you don't need both feet on the ground - 1 on tip toes will do in many cases. With good low speed control you'll hardly ever have to stop and with forward planning (looking for adverse cambers, pot holes etc) you'll avoid all the tricky stopping places too.
At the recent HU UK meeting, Tiffany Coates demonstrated picking up a bike using the handlebar technique (turning the bars away from you & cupping the lower bar in both hands, using your legs and not your back to lift).

I admire your adventurous spirit to ride into Africa, I would love to ride in South America but there are so many other countries to explore too!
Hope all goes well with the bike test and off roading, let us all know how you get along!

A common theme between Overland riders is that their bikes get smaller with every trip, even though their experience and riding skills get better.

I started out travelling on a Africa Twin in Europe, then moved down to an XT600 for South America. Now I have a DRZ400 prepped for Africa and i'm already thinking about a 250cc for the next trip.

I don't know anyone who has done a trip on a small bike and desperately wanted to swap it for a giant BMW or KTM. You will encounter plenty of people on the road cursing their giant bikes. Looking at you with jealously as your playfully glide your lighter bike over ruts and potholes and effortlessly push it through Hotel doors or onto boats etc.

Food for thought perhaps !

Which Bike
 

Hi Jeanied1


I have been interested in your adventure and your planned trip to Africa, Having recently learned to ride my self and being a little on the ancient side and suffer from arthritis and initially could not get on the bike unless I stood on the foot peg. I chose a DRZ 250 for my first bike had a set of Motard wheels made and this made the bike lower and easier for me to get on, then found out that ready made accessories were difficult to get so I thought this would be something that you might consider. I sold the DRZ and still have the wheels, so Motard wheels with a link kit would significantly lower the bike. And saddle trimming is not uncommon for people with Ducks Disease.
The saddle can be made much nicer and be more comfortable, perhaps a little wider where you need it. You can do anything that you want.

Now there are lots of people on this site that have much more knowledge about individual bikes than I have however if I were doing a trip to Africa which I am planning a RWT in about 5 years these are things that I consider as being necessary
BTW my mechanical experience spans somewhat over 40years

·Fuel capacity a ready made tank large capacity
·Panniers all ready made to fit the bike
·Sump guard and Bark busters ( if you drop the bikewithout them it is likely that you will break a clutch or break leaver, they shatter really well (that’s the first thing I learned I droppedmine in on the the front concrete and hadnt turned a wheel), but always carry spares zip tied to a convenient part of the bike They are really light.
·Mechanical durability
·Longevity of engine
·Ease of parts replacement ie. is it easy to change
·Is the bike comfortable
·Is it the right height for me and what’s available to make it so
·How light is the bike for air travel 147KG dry weight

So what I elude to is there are two bikes I would consider and both from the Suzuki range and one I think is a little more durable and less likely to break or develop problems than the other, Bothe have availability of aftermarket parts, Fuel tanks etc. Motard wheels which are factory fitted
Both bikes are LAMS approved (learner approved)
The DRZ 400 is water cooled so if this develops cooling problems then you may be stuck in a place that you don’t want to be. Touring Ted my be able to give more advise on this bike

The DR 650 is very durable and there are reports on the web regarding their durability, there is a website which is based around the Birdsville Track and they use the DR650 exclusively for their clients. I have read other reports which compare several different bikes that have travelled around the Simpson Desert, the DR650 perform exceptionally well.
There are more parts available for the DR650 and the bike can be properly kitted before departure. I would go for Bilstine shocks on the rear, but being a light weight you may not have to consider this.
Link Kits Motarrd wheels lowered seat large tank, and panniers that bolt on and you have the perfect touring bike, very comfortable air cooled, no cooling system problems.

The DR650 is 140KG dry weight There is one bike lighter for putting on the plane and that a KTM 560 (I Think) Touring Ted my be able to give more advise on this bike

Now last but not least is the frighten factor, can this bike be too powerful for a novice, no not at all it is really easy to ride and throttle control is good not like the Gladius, which is also Learner approved and the bike I rode for my open license the thump in his bike can take you by surprise But the DR650 is a little more sedate until you want to ride it hard.

Well just my two bobs worth as a new rider: I wish you well in your choice and if you wish to discuss further pleas e-mail me

Kind regards
Champ

Overall I reckon a 600-650cc bike is best for RTW. I've got a 250, 400 and 2 650's in the garage and can't imagine taking a 250 RTW. Even the 400 would be difficult on the long straight roads. Particularly if you cross the whole continent. Dirt or not, but the OP may find it ok. It all depends on what you're used to.

In the end, light is might. So in that respect for most the DR650 would be ultimate, but it's still a hefty bike compared to the 400 though. The 400 goes everywhere with ease. Is bulletproof and doesn't need much to spec up. Water cooling is one of those FI vs Carbs, or synthetic vs dyno oil debates. The 400 cooling system is a beauty. It doesn't have a fan on the E but can be retrofitted, but doesn't need it either really. Air cooled bikes can have cooling issues as well. I've had it on both. Had boiling coolant in my 400 (sitting in first on a single trail behind my wife) and steam coming of my old XTZ600 Tenere (finding a park spot on Fraser Island in summer). I reckon in Africa liquid cooling is the go, but if that's not an option on your preferred bike it's by no means a show stopper.

Ted's right. Most people will try to make it lighter second time around. I reckon it's because most people get more confident on the dirt, and want to ride more aggressive. Keeping in mind that most people on RTW trips have next to no dirt riding experience though, it would be a logical statistic. A lot of them like myself are from Europe with limiting to no dirt riding opportunities adding to this statistic. In Aussie we have heaps of opportunity. So you'll find that it's the perfect prep ground for a RTW trip and usually ahead of the 'bike setup evolutionary chain'. You can experience the same conditions as Africa within a weekend ride in most places of Australia, where in Europe you'll have to drop in to Spain or Morocco. You won't find many hard luggage setups here.

Keep that in mind with some of the advice given and this is why I reckon you should join some of the local rides. A long weekend setup will suffice for a RTW setup with a few additions. I tested this one the other weekend and found it needed a suspension tuning or more balanced distribution. Didn't need steel racks though.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p.../Image0096.jpg

Hey thanks guys for your very detailed suggestions and feedback! That's what I love about this forum, everyone's so generous with their knowledge.

I took another small step towards my Africa dream today - passed my learner permit theory and practical tests first time, yeeha! My instructor - who's been instrumental in building my confidence - is going to give me some more individual training on a 250cc Suzuki, then I'm finally going to take the plunge and buy my bike - armed with all the advice on this thread!

At this stage, I'm thinking I'll buy an el-cheapo bike for now to build up some kilometres on, something I won't get too precious about. AND I want to start getting some off-road experience as well. Then I'll think more specifically about a bike for Africa.

VERY excited about the coming months now...! :D

Jeanie :mchappy:

Congratulations
 

Congratulations Jeannie! A brand new motorbike licence which might change your life more than you're currently aware of! Make the best of it and ENJOY:thumbup1:

Thanks BikingMarco!

I'm VERY excited as I'm about to take possession of my Very First Motorcycle - a ten-year-old 250cc Suzuki Marauder. :DI spent an hour riding it round a playground yesterday (!) and for the first time I actually felt like a proper motorcyclist - woman and bike were at one! So I've decided to buy it to get some riding practice in over the next couple of months while I keep deciding which bike to buy for Africa. Once I've got some kilometres under my belt - and riding confidence - on the Suzy, I think I'll be better placed to decide what's the right bike for me for my Big Adventure. AND I'll be ready to try some off-road riding as well...

Meantime, this weekend, gotta get myself kitted up with helmet, gloves, jacket etc, which is a whole new ballgame for me...!

Jeanie :mchappy:

Hi Jim,

I had been looking at the Beta Alp, and I think it will have the same issues that my spanish made Rieju Tango 250 off road: spare parts.
Rieju is a very good brand, and is HUGE in Spain. The Tango is very low and hence a superb off-road bike for me (i'm rather short!) to get more experience off-road.

BUT... my only concern for my next big trip across northern Asia would be spare parts. This is something I would need to discuss in detail with my local mechanic.

I am torn between keeping the little bike (105kgs) 250cc, air cooled, Carbs ... it is quality built but what happens if something goes wrong in mongolia... vs something going wrong with yamaha say!

It was already such a huge problem (1 month delay ) to rebuild my BMW F650GS in Chile after a massive crash! It was not easy to deal with BMW, not sure it would be easier to deal with Rieju in Catalunya!

Lots of good options
 

First stay small... I did a 6000 km tour of West Africa with a passenger on a Honda 125XL... with camping gear and an every increasing pile of stuff we bought along the way!

Also highly recommend you check out Lois on the Loose... she did a north to south route on a 250... www.loisontheloose.com

Cheers, Brent.:scooter:

Someone mentioned the DR350 as a possible for you.........forget it, it's waaaaay too tall. Too tall for me at 5'7".........I had a little DR200 that I thought was sweet as can be (until some bas***d nicked it)...nice and low but torquey. Not strong enough to carry luggage though. Wonderful little bike for green laning.

I am also looking for a bike that I don't need to wear stilletos with, but something with a bit of power........maybe 400cc upwards. It's not the power I'm worried about, it's the size/seatheight of the 'adventure' bikes. I need one to carry luggage too as I want to do a big trip. The only one I've found so far is the Beemer 650..........but it's expensive and seems to have lots of (potential) faults.

I don't know if I have said this on this topic, but you can't go wrong with a CG125.

I'm not sponsored by Honda to keep saying this by the way. I just fell in love and want everyone else to feel the same!

Napoleon could kick a leg over it, and it will never let you down.

Birdy

Me and my girl have just recently come back from 3 week ride to Morocco...me on a cb1300 and her on a 22 year old Honda Bros NT650! It was perfect for the trip for her (i find it a little bit of a ball buster). it takes luggage, a good thrashing to 90+ mph and was getting 110 miles out a tank...its same engine (near enough) as the transalp, so bullet proof......i just wish they did a bigger version, something like an unfaired vtr1000!

Hairy - I assume you stuck to tarmac roads on those bikes.
Would be interested in what route you took - do you have a web site or could PM me the details?

There was this guy on here that did Africa on his CTX200, would be a great choice if you're worried about size.

Pheonix, ive PM'd u

This has been a great thread to read and it confirms my new way of thinking.

I've done journeys across southern Africa on various bikes including a CJ750 (with sidecar), XT500, BMW R60/6, newTriumph Scrambler and a Honda AG200 farmbike with an auto clutch.

The best of them all was the Honda 200. It was light, rugged and basic, free of any vices except clutch-lag, which I could live with. Best of all, though, it was low-key, which I find quite important when riding in Africa.

Our next bike journey, from SA to Mozambique and back via Malawi and Zimbabwe, will be on either a Honda CD200 courier bike (ridiculously cheap to buy in SA and easy to find spares for) or a Yamaha TW200.

I believe the bike has to fit into your journey, and your life, not the other way around which is often the case with bigger bikes. Small bikes work fine for slow African journeys, even two-up, if you can keep your kit to a minimum.

I often mix boat and train travel with my journeys so a smaller bike is vital.

Small bikes are easier to cope with on river crossings in small boats (it happens), easier to push when the roads turn to mud, and they usually don't look much different from most other bikes you'll see people riding. Carnets are cheaper, train travel is much cheaper ...

As for speed? This is Africa. You need to go slowly. Stop worrying about the miles. You're having the experience of your life, so why hurry?

Happy riding.

Paul

Hi Jeannie,

I'm new to Horizon's Unlimited and just been reading and enjoying your thread. I was in your position about 16months ago. I got my motorbike licence in June 2009 and took the plunge and bought TWO motorbikes... why you ask??? so did I... Mid life crisis... maybe but one bike was the CRF230L for trailriding and BMW 650GS for roadriding. I was given good advice by my boyfriend that if I wanted to riding in Sydney traffic I needed to learn to ride on dirt/trails so I can react to any conditions. That started me on a quest that saw me 12 months later riding a trailbike with 10 guys from Perth (Western Australia) right across the middle of Australia via the Gunbarrel Hwy to Ayers Rock then across the Simpson Desert, Birdsville, Longreach and finally to Airlie Beach in Queensland (5500km of which 90% was dirt). I only dropped by CRF 10 times (one guy on a KTM 640 dropped his 29 times). I agree with previous posts I went on many dirt riding courses (the best was the Yamaha Riding Academy in Bateman's Bay run by Heffo).

Like you I'm 5f2 and wanting to tackle CapeTown to London on a bike. I have just purchased the 5 DVD set from Horizons and slowly working my way thru them. I want my dream to come true so I think I'm looking for a third bike... an 'adventure' bike... So far all my dreams have come true its only a matter of time and planning. If you are interested in hooking up sometime happy to ride down..

Have attached photo of me in the Simpson on one of the 1500 sand dunes we had to ride over....

TTR250 rocks!
 

Hi Jeanie,
I'm a bit late to this thread, so maybe you've already got a bike and you're on your way! But just to say that the TTR250 was absolutely great for me in Africa (and, in fact everywhere). It is still going strong today and I use it as my everyday bike around London. When I left for Africa it had 7000 miles on it but I set off with new brake pads, sprocket/chain, cables etc and nothing, yes, NOTHING went wrong with it on the entire trip. I didn't even have to adjust the chain until the day before I arrived in Cape Town! And that was 10,000 miles through very rough terrain - inc. the Sahara in Algeria/Niger, Congo, Angola etc - it got a right ol' hammering! I am short, although not as short as you (I'm 5ft 4") but I lowered it with a lowering link and I can get my toes down. There's more info about the bike and what I did to it on my website if you want to have a look and you can email me through my site if you have any questions.
Good luck and have a fantastic adventure.
Rock on!
Lois
x

Hi Lois,

So great to get your advice. I'm halfway through reading your book Red Tape and White Knuckles. I was looking at the TTR250 to setup as an adventure bike. Did you do any special mods to it for your trip from London to Capetown?

Kat

Three cheers for the TTR!
 

Hi Kat,
Thanks for the message - hope you're enjoying Red Tape & White Knuckles and that it's getting you in the mood! That trip certainly was an amazing adventure.
As for mods on the TTR, I didn't do anything major - just fitted a big 22 litre tank, bash plate and super heavy-duty inner tubes. I replaced all the consumable parts with original Yamaha parts before I left too. Oh yes, and the all-important sheepskin on the seat! Very important... although it had rotted to a horrible smelly mess by the time I got to Angola!
Good luck and have a look on my website for more info about the bike and the kit I used etc. You can email me through there as well if you have any questions.
Have a crazy time out there!
Lois

Hi Lois,

Which tank is that cause there is no official Safari or Acerbis tank for it? Mars has a TTR also and we'd love for it to be able to go further a bit. I know some people have used XR tanks on them, but they're also pretty rare.

Taco

TTR big tank
 

Hi Taco,
Good to hear from you! Hope you and Mars are doing fine. The tank I got for my TTR250 was an official Acerbis one but they don't make them any more, I don't think they have made them for several years now as I got it second hand via the TTR250 Yahoo group - someone just happened to be selling one. You may find one somewhere if you're lucky I guess. I do believe the XR 400 Acerbis tank fits (I think?).
Good luck.
Lois

Choosing a bike - is it ok to go for looks as well as practicality?!
 

Hi Lois,

Thanks for your steer (haha!) re the TTR250 - it was actually Red Tape and White Knuckles that got me thinking maybe I could do an Africa trip on a bike, so I've already had a good look at your website and read up on your bike and stuff, thanks. The TTR certainly looks really durable and not too heavy to pick up if it goes over...!!

Last weekend, I was at the Motorcycle Expo in Melbourne and sat on a few bikes to get a feel for different saddle heights, weight, etc. I sat on a few dirt/trail bikes...but aesthetically the bikes I'm drawn to fall more into the Triumph Scrambler mould (more classic bike look, but they can go off-road to a degree...)

So I'm wondering, is it wrong to think about the look of the bike as much as the practicality of it? I know the dirt bike would be a practical option but the image I have in my head of me biking across Africa is on something a bit more classic... Or am I just being completely impractical here?! :)

Jeanie :mchappy:

Cape Town to London by motorcycle...
 

Hey Kat,

Great to see your post - welcome to Horizons Unlimited!

I totally get how you've already ended up with two bikes and are thinking about a third! I bought my current (and only) bike soon after getting my L-plates back in July - it's a Suzuki Marauder 250cc cruiser and has been perfect for learning to ride on and building up confidence (lightweight, low seat height etc).

But fairly quickly I realised that a cruiser isn't going to be the ideal bike for going across Africa! So I've been looking at maybe getting another bike that will go off-road as well as on-road, and have been frequenting motorcycle shows and conventions to size up what's out there and, more importantly, what would be right for me. It's a hard choice though, as so many bikes seem designed with guys in mind and don't make me jump up and down going "Yay, I'd love to across the whole of Africa on this!!" (still waiting for that "light-bulb" moment, hahaha!)

We should definitely keep in touch as, like you, this Africa dream won't go away and I'm keen to do it sooner rather than later - carpe diem and all that! I'm taking my full motorcycle licence test next weekend and if that all goes well, I think that will give me the confidence boost I need to start concretely working out how to make the Africa dream come true! Apart from anything else, it will be SO nice to get those L plates off and start being taking seriously by other road users, hahaha!

Jeanie :mchappy:

Three cheers for the TTR and Serow!
 

Hi,
Have just come across this thread, so will offer this:
Three of us set off over a year ago, London to Cape Town. Two on TTR250s, one on a Serow. It's all here:

www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/thomas

My TTR250 took me all the way to Cape Town, 20,000 miles in 13 months. (A zig-zag route). I just returned home a month ago.

The bike was great, now has 68,000 miles on it. But is a bit rattly, will need checking before another long adventure.

My daughter and son-in-law, on a Serow and another (pretty old) TTR250 were with me to Nairobi, where their bikes are still stored. Wonderful adventures through Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia.

They had jobs open back in England, and needed to work a few more months before continuing on from Nairobi.

But in Africa unexpected things send you in unexpected directions, and while we were in Khartoum they both received offers that couldn't be refused, of proper paid work. So after a short while back in England, they moved to Khartoum six months ago where my daughter now teaches English and my son-in-law teaches western music at the University.

They plan to return to Nairobi early next year, get back on the Serow and TTR, ride around for a few months or so, and then back to Khartoum to continue their jobs there.

So we all recommend those bikes very highly!

Good luck with your adventure!
Ken

I don't think there's anything wrong with this at all.

95% of people wouldn't go out on the piss dressed in 'any old rags', so why should you go on potentially the trip of a lifetime with something you don't like the look of? The bike is a major element of a bike trip, so you've got to be comfortable with it.

You may struggle to find any modern bikes with a 'classic' look that would suit your riding plans though. Triumph scrambler ain't light. And the first couple of years worth of 'new' bonnevilles were renowned for poor build quality (probably half of all bikes that left the factory had wheel spokes snap from ordinary road riding) - Would put me off 'new' triumph that.


A 'real' 'classic' might be your best bet, though it would be prudent to set off on a long distance trip on an older bike with a sound understanding of how everything works, and a capability to get stuck in with the spanners when it don't. Though it's a myth that old bikes have to be unreliable; I did 18000miles on a 1976 honda round nearly all of europe for three months a couple of years back with only two minor breakdowns the whole way.

Ah, the romantics of travelling. That stuff goes out the window at the first muddy patch. ;)

Noel has made a good movie which you can find here showing the conditions that you'll end up facing.

YouTube - Crossing Africa full version part 1

In the end you can do it on anything, but I'd stick with something light weight. That scrambler is twice as heavy as a TTR. Seriously, try going on a trail ride and you'll quickly change you opinions.

Yes I think we had the romantic idea of travelling around the world what fun on two bikes, that soon was blown out of the water.

I am only 5.1 and riding a BMW F650GS which has not been lowered, too heavy and too tall and in some situations I have had to get Lucas to ride it through the rough bits mainly deep mud, and some river crossings.

So after nearly 2 years of travel would I change the bike if I had a chance?

Yes, I would love a lighter bike, something that I don't have to struggle with to get off side stand when it if fully loaded.

Having a lower bike would be good but I'm not sure that I want to sacrifice the ground clearance, we were going to have mine lowered but in the end I decided that I wouldn't this did work out good in the end because of some the rough stuff that we have been though particularly in East Timor and Lao the lowered bike would have been a problem.

I guess it is not until you have been travelling for a while that you are able to work out what it is you want, then of course it is too late.

Xt 250
 

My wife and I are half way thru Africa, she is on a XT250, I am on a F650twin,
she really loves the bike, it is light and nippy. She to was a relatively new rider until she got to Egypt and I think that was worth 10 years riding experience for her.[url]http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/attachment.php?attachmentid=4176&stc=1&d=129213105 2http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/attachment.php?

Paul D great Pix
& Somemustard just had a read of your blog :mchappy:

Hey that XT250 looks brilliant.

But it doesn't look like any of the XT250s I've looked at up till now - has it had a lot of modifications (seat lowered, etc etc...)? It does look really ride-able and I could see myself riding round Africa on it, for sure!

Jeanie :mchappy:

hi Jeannie. My wife rides KL250 super sherpa and she 4foot 9 I slip forks in clamp 35mm.add 20cm in her boots. the other bike we had was lowered f650gs. the KL did 45000 km before we trached the motor. New oil put in around 2000 to 3000km. good luck in find a bike Regards Stuart

Xt 250
 

Jeanie,
It's Jan here, as for the modifications I don't think there is to many, but I will
list what I have. Barkbusters are a must (fell off on Mayole rode about 5 times and they saved both levers everytime.) I have that engine guard thing and Paul had Hi-way Pegs welded on (I broke both these off tho, first one went in Egypt when a stupid idiot walked out in front of me, and the second one in the Simien Mountains (Ethiopia) I took a spill on a gravel road. I also bought Andy Strap expedition panniers (pain at first but sorted out now) I have a Air Hawk seat which was really good. I took the seat to a motor trimmers and they cut it back for me, which made a fair bit of difference as I am only 5'2".
The mechanic pulled the front forks thru a little, and did something at the back to even it out (not sure what tho, but if you end up getting one I'll find out for you. I also had a light frame welded on the back to hold my extra fuel container up right (It worked out really well as we had our Dual Fuel Stove hooked on as well and then put a Lid Safe bag which fitted perfectly over both, and was lockable then.) The frames that hold my Panniers came from America (The engine guard, Pannier Racks and Fuel Container all came from the one place) I use a roll bag which I lay across the back and fasten with those Andy Straps. The Bike was white with blue decals when I bought it, but we own a Graphics Company (Visual Graphics - create.develop) so Paul wanted something Australian so we did a make over of the 2 bikes.
Let me know if you you need any more info on Timone (My bikes name, Pauls is called Pumba they make a good pair)
I have attached a couple of my photos of it here. I was going to sell it in Capetown when I reached there and ride my F650gs from South America onwards, but after this trip there is no ways will I part with it. !!!!

Do you have any close-ups of the fuel container and it's frame for us to look at?

I was just going to suggest the Sherpa too if it is available in OZ - it is infinitely better than a Serow (and I've ridden both) - it feels like a small big bike, rather than just a small bike. The only limiting factor with the Sherpa is the size of the stock fuel tank - you should get around 100 miles from it, but I don't think there is anything larger on the aftermarket that is a ready fit.

Certainly if you are shorter and not particularly strong, I'd forget about anything over 400cc - the weight and physical size of any of the 650cc bikes will just make life a misery for you if you stray off the highway/dirt roads...

Personally, I would look at a DRZ 400 SM (the supermoto version), which has slightly shorter suspension travel and is lower than the Trail version by virtue of having 17 inch wheels. They are also typically cheaper than the Trail version, as people buy them and then realise they are not a rootin' tootin' hardcore supermoto, but a trail bike with fatter tyres... so sell them cheap and buy a Husaburg or something mental!

Fortunately all the aftermarket bits you might want for the Trail DRZ also fit the SM (lowering links, larger fuel tanks and skid-plates, luggage racks, comfort seats etc.) - are all readily available, and if you get a 19 inch rim laced onto the front, the bike will still be low, but you can run all-terrain tyres such as the TKC80, which I'd say is a great tyre for the sort of trip you're planning.

The DRZ engine is very reliable, easy to maintain, and as others have said previously - get a good/new one and make sure all the consumable parts are fresh, and you shouldn't have any real 'parts' issues on your trip anyway...

And even if you did end up with a problem, you can get anything shipped anywhere in the world these days, you might just have to wait a while somewhere - but then that's usually when the best adventures happen anyway...

Jx

Fuel Rack
 

Deana/Jeanie,
(Paul here this time) I have not got any close up photos of the rack we made but I can draw
what we did if you want. The back rack is a Borrego Rack, for the panniers we used a Denali Rack, and the fuel was a Kolpin Fuel Storage. These are 2 web sites that you can see these products Kolpin Fuel Pack Jr with Bracket - ATV - Motorcycle Superstore
and also TCI Products I must add everthing we did worked extremely well as we wanted the bike to be as lights as possible. I also put Heidanau 60s for the tyres which are not even showing signs of wear yet.

Thanks
Paul:scooter:

small tank on the Sherpa i get around 28 km per litre that give me but 225km, the worst ever was 24 km per litre was two up with camping, food and water for 4 days. On the open road siting on 90 km per hour.
You can fit 30-litre DR650 Safari tank. In the 01/07 twowheels mag there write up & pic with Sherpa with 30 tank.
Regards Stuart

Can you actually see the bike under all that tank?!

Good to know there is an option - I reckon that would make it an excellent lightweight travel bike!

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...0/IMGP2924.jpg

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/r...DSC00914_2.jpg

Jx

[quote=stuart little;316057
You can fit 30-litre DR650 Safari tank. In the 01/07 twowheels mag there write up & pic with Sherpa with 30 tank.
Regards Stuart[/quote



Anyone got a picture of it???

Hey Jan,

Thanks for the info and pix of your bike - it really does look great and the sort of bike/set-up that I could handle. As a fairly new rider, it looks manageable compared to some of the "adventure bikes" I've seen - and it really looks the part, as well as being functional for the varying terrain of Africa!

I'm flying out to Cape Town at the end of next week and am thinking about trying to hire a bike for a few weeks to tour South Africa. (It's kind of a recce trip for the bigger one I'll do across Africa later in the year!). But I'm having trouble finding anywhere that will hire bikes this small - ie 250cc. So if anyone's get any tip-offs about where I might go to hire a smaller bike, that would be great!

Jeanie :mchappy:

Bikes you can get in Asia that fit the bill...
 

Kawasaki D-Tracker 250, Yamaha XT225 Serow, Honda SL230 are stand outs, the D-Tracker is fairly new on the scene but people are raving about. The Honda is an old design so parts are AVAILABLE EVERYWHERE!!

5'2" Is short so the other option is to get a "touring"bike like a Honda Night Hawk or CB and do some mods so it can get off road... you won't get down'n'dirty but you will handle most trails and also have an option for up to 400cc that way (more luggage/pillion). I've seen a couple done up quite well.

My pick is the D-Tracker though...