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Aprilia Pegaso
Hi folks. I posted last week to say I was going to look at a KLE 500 to replace my Xt600 3AJ. Well, I didnt get the KLE, I picked up an 03 plate Pegaso for a great price, I took it for an hours test drive, and by the end of the ride, I wasnt buying anything else! I didnt bother looking at the KLE after that, Ive found a nice modern single that is a good height for me, (the Tenere was a bit tall for me to be honest) feels great and has full givi luggage and a higher Givi screen already fitted. Ive still to pick it up and get it home due to circumstances beyond my control, but I have to say, I cant wait!
Thanks to all for the advice on the KLE, but after owning the Tenere and a DR600 before that, I have to say that I prefer to stay with the singles. Heres to travels in 2008! Pete |
Pete,
Congrats, you got a "new" bike! That's always a great feeling. You'll have to do some posts on that 'cos there is not too much reported about them, recently anyway - that will have the Rotax engine as per the Beemer 650 rather than the Yam 660 that is currently fitted. Good riding, |
I've got one - paid £970 for a very good condition 97 bike with the 22L tank. For my budget less than £1000 it was the best bike by far - people seem to overlook them. They are basically a BMW for 1/2 the price a better engine (more powerful 5 valve rotax) better electrics I'm told and a part alloy frame.
Mine is rough below 3000rpm - something i'm trying to sort out (same with the older beamers I believe) yours should be smooth - efi helps I think. Brakes seem nice - quite powerful on the front - twin headlamp even on mine seems years ahead of the beamers and 200mm suspension travel is good for a dual pupose bike and works well on rough roads - I've not taken it off road yet but the one report I have my friend could not keep up off road (in the UK) while he was following one on his CCM 400 enduro bike which should have been much faster and reports the tail was going sideways a lot i.e. the Pegaso pilot was giving it lots of throttle for lots of sideways fun! Oh yes - upside down forks also seem many years ahead of their time even on my 97 bike though sadly the rear shock only seems average to poor for off road use though (due to reliability) I don't think many bikes of this type (except the single minded off road KTM's which include the 625/640's ) have rear shocks which can truly take a hammering and the Pegaso's cannot be rebuilt (i've heard) Anyway congrats on your purchase I'm sure you've got a bargain there! |
Poundland bike??????
where are you going with a plastic bashplate???? :thumbdown: and behind the plastic bashplate - at the front, on the left handside - there is the cooling liquid tank asking for a bash....
I saw one of these opened up and my impression was that it was cheaply built, it was a 2002 model though. Impressive is the fuel tap: you cannot miss it...:clap::clap::clap::clap: |
Thanks
Thanks for the feedback guys, 2 grown up replies out of 3 aint bad, I'll keep you posted on life with a rotax ie Pegaso.
Alex, If I was you I'd be more worried about chocolate cams and journals and chocolate 5th gears than my plastic bashplate. I also own a Tenere, got the t shirt......and the repair bills. You know what they say about folks in glass houses. Pete |
Pegaso sales
It just struck me that there could be increased interest in the Aprilia Pegaso now that the single cyl F650GS is no longer available new; for anyone who does not want to go down the route of twins?
The BMW Rotax engine differs (twin spark and whatever), so I am informed, by having a BMW head designed by their car "M3" designers - I think this was in the bumpf that advertised the bike. |
Pegaso
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The Pegaso plastic bashplate has always been a joke: like supplying the police with marzipan bulletproof vests, indication that the company wants to save on this and what else? My comment on the fuel tap was a bit too much, I admit it, I wish mine was standing out so clearly like on the Pegaso when I run out of petrol while riding it's a challenge to find it before the XTZ dies.... keep riding, if you have to buy Italian buy Parmesan....! :clap: best regards alex |
Parmesan? I'll stick to a large cheese pizza without mate!
Pete |
I have ridden a few Pegs and still ride one. Mine is essentially an F650 with Italian styling and 2/3 the price. I've carried spares halfway around the world in preparation of the classic problems (head gasket, regulator) but never had these problems materialise.
Done plenty of off-road kms in plenty of countries without a problem (aside from a few crashes - indicators, hand guards etc, the usual). Although I have lost a front sprocket due to the lightweight circlip giving way. I wouldn't take mine on tracks that need a metal bashplate - it's not really that kind of bike. It's a bit heavy and front wheel is a bit wide and small in diameter for this kind of stuff. It is also difficult to stand on the pegs as the angles are all a bit wrong. Long trips off-road are fine, but a scrub-basher it is not. (This is not counting the newer, trail Pegs.) But for what I want to do it's perfect. I'm happy to keep the merits quiet - it'll help keep the price down. Have fun on yours. |
I have just stripped my '98 Peg down to the bone and rebuilt it, and all I can say is that theres nothing 'cheap' about it compared to the many other more expensive bikes I have also worked on. We all need to remember that the Peg mk3, until the new one came along recently, was first built in 1997. At that time this was a seriously modern looking machine. But essentially they have been unchanged over the years so now its old technology.
Yes the bike is a bastard to work on as everything needs to be removed to do even the simplest bit of work, but it is not cheaply made at all. Lets also remember that it has always been very well priced in the market. If you think the starter gear on the Peg is bad try working on any of the new sports bikes! After riding my bike through most off-road obstacles I have not even once asked myself why the bashguard is plastic, at the end of the day its not a Dakar rally bike, its a adventure tourer. If its so important why did Honda never put one on the like-minded Transalp?? but like BrettUAE, Im not gonna say too much.....I just feel sorry for those F650 riders when they find out they are actually riding a Pegaso with a less attractive body and engine, especially because they paid more for it than the Peg..........:mchappy: |
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There's a fantastic long straight coming up from Loch Tulla, up over Rannoch moor, and then the long swoopy bends going down through the glen itself. There's a nice run going past Kinlochleven, and, if it's still there, a bunkhouse if you need one. Also McColls bunkhouse at Leacantium in the 'Coe. Or the Squirrel campsite, tho' it's always soggy in winter. Or, near the Clachaig, you can camp beside the River Coe. |
Alex's reply was Valid!
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Alex had a valid point. OK, he may have chosen to make that point in a more abrasive way than what you like, but that is what makes us Individuals.... the fact that we are Different. His point was why put a plastic bashplate on a bike? it serves no purpose other than cosmetic. I agree.... its a crap Idea....and if you think you have a Bike that is "nearly" a BMW but at half the price..... think again. You have not. and as for your repair bills on your XT? learn to ride it and service it properly and it may not let you down as badly! Martyn |
Martyn I dont deny your reasoning above except the last bit. You obviously know very little about the Peg vs BMW Funduro, as they are both made by Aprilia in the same production line so YES it is almost a BMW, or should I say the BMW is almost an Aprilia but twice the price.....
And What makes you think this chap with the XT doesnt know how to ride properly? He too was entitled to his opinion so infact you just completely contradicted yourself. Next time do your homework before posting! |
yes and No
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Just because the bikes are made on the same production line in the same factory doesnt mean the Components are the same. Frame, forks, brakes, wheel rims, quality of the general parts etc... and in fact I do know something about them... I used to live next door to a chap that owned one! ( Hiya Duncan if your reading this :thumbup1:) ,,,,,, the aprilia after sales and warranty is next to zero in comparison with BMW! many visits to the dealers and months in total without the Aprilia to sort out faults including..... 1. a front sprocket that came off as she was riding it ( the circlip fell off) and the replacement took a week to arrive, 2. the ignition switch failed twice, 3. he exhaust snapped, 4. the front brake switch failed, 5. it leaked Oil 6. the headgasket blew twice, cured by new studs i believe, all this on a BRAND NEW BIKE. The BMW in its first year needed just a new rear brake light switch and a front fork oil seal. Done THE SAME DAY. Wollaston BMW in Northampton The service Intervals for the BMW are 10,000 but the Aprilla are 6,000.... if they are the same engine WHY? as for the XT reliability, sorry Dude, but if DONT labour them in high gears and change the oil regularly, keep the valves adjusted correctly they really wont ever break down much. there are many many XTs with over 100,000kms on em with NO rebuilds or big bills required. Martyn |
Fair enough, I agree with most of what you have said. The XT is World renowned for being reliable, always has been. some people are unlucky and have loads of things go wrong with their chosen bikes, no matter how reliable it is. I dont know this chap with the XT and neither do you, his experience may be the unlucky type, who knows.....Thats why I wouldnt comment in the way you did, just a thought.
just in direct reply to BMW vs Pegaso, the BM also had the same issues with the front sprocket with the same setup of a stupid circlip, until Aprilia made both of them with a retainer nut instead. the brakes were identical Brembo's, so were the Rims and Hubs. Mine is a '98 model and has never leaked a drop, although some had head gasket issues, likewise the BMW. The only difference in the engine was that Rotax did the 5 valve head for the Aprilia, and the four valve for the BMW, which meant the Aprilia leant towards the peformance side whilst BMW went for reliability, with the 5-valve chucking out 3 more horsepower it made a difference. Aprilia were trying this out as it was a relatively new type of single, thus the service intervals being different. The exhausts were rubbish on the Peg, agreed as they rusted inside like you can't believe! The wiring looms were identical, despite slightly different lights etc. But at the end of the day both are italian bikes with Austrian engines. The Italians are notorious for their crap electrics. Luckily if most people knew, they could have taken their Peg to the BMW dealer and got 80% of the work done there instead. I have used two BMW dealerships along the way. Or even better get it serviced whilst touring in Italy. Its six of one and half a dozen of the other, But they are so alike that anybody who says they are the same bike with a different body in my view is talking sense. Bmw did a better job advertising as they always do, thus the reason for the BMW being dearer now if you want one. Thats all gone out the window since BMW opened a factory purpose built for the newer F650 GS. |
ok, will stand corrected on a few points..
And your right, maybe I did slate the dude off a tad too much. apologies to all around for that one, OK
I still cant understand though...... 3Bhp more on the Peg than the Beemer and the service interval is 10,000 as opposed to 6,000. doesnt make sense really does it? also if they are made in the same factory why do the Peg exhausts rot so fast and the Beemer ones dont? I think the answer MUST lie in the quality of the components, components that 'look' similar yet perform quite differently. I have seen 'fake' Billet 6 pot caliper brakes that look exactly like the real thing yet when fitted to a bike actually performed WORSE than the standard brakes did. the packaging the everything looked right. they were not right though. Maybe it is the same with some of the components on the peg? as for Italian Electrics..Please no, otherwise we are gonna open up a whole can of worms :eek3::rofl:. ( I remember spending 6 freezing cold nights in my friend Charlies Garage trying to fault find on a T3? Californian Guzzi.. Nightmare!!!) Martyn |
Yeah I must say I have yet to find much info on the exhausts of the two. The Beamer used a totally stainless system whilst Aprilia went for a crappy steel system. It may be that the exhausts were infact not put on the Beamer by Aprilia but rather by another factory afterwards, but thats only speculation. The BMW was a more expensive bike new so I guess they could afford to have a better exhaust.
The SI may also be because BMW were trying to invent a 'new' class of bike with this Funduro, marketed as an 'adventure tourer' to basically make a road legal Dakar Rally type bike powered by a single, which implies reliability to the max. So they perhaps felt if they had an SI anything less than 10 000 it would put potential buyers off, once again speculation. Obviously they were not really inventing a new class, as the Peg and a few other bikes were made long before the F650, they were merely doing what BMW do best, sell vehicles. As far as the engine though, They were Rotax engines delivered to Aprilia already built with the two variants. The only things that were significantly different were the front forks, the frame was steel on the BMW but alloy on the Peg and the rear subframe was different but only slightly. and then the plastics. Swingarm was the same. But as regards to 'fake' parts, none were used on either. they had single piston Brembo brakes, and a flip through Ebay will show you their pads are identical too. The wheels and hubs were identical as well as bearings and the entire electrical system from the regulators to the sender units was identical. the engines were also identical and once you take the clutch cover where it says the brand off, behind they both had 'made in austria' printed in the same places (ie. Rotax). It all boils down to BMW using Aprilias expertise to manufacture a bike for them under license, as they had already established a name in big single trail bikes with the Peg Mk1 and 2. Bmw obviously kept this quiet though although a lot of the parts like the mirrors clearly had 'made in Italy' on them as well as the instrument guages. Yeah Electrics are something the Italians have never got good at unfortunately. They always seem to forget the basic and try make things complicated where they dont need to. I have on many occassions whilst on a dead flat road in the middle of no where, having turned the bike off to rest or get fuel, thought that as soon as I got home I would rip out the electrics and install a modified Honda system, as she just refused to send power to the starter motor! |
Honda, Bless em!
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Martyn |
hmmmm, you make it sound an even more attractive proposition to rewire the beast, maybe one day. Italian bikes are like italian women: fun, attractive and full of energy......but unreliable and moody! But im the kind of guy who defends it to the hills and resist changing over to japanese adventure tourers like the plague......although I secretly admit the Hondas I have had before were quietly fantastic!
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it is!
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Then rewire..... You Know it makes sense! :thumbup1: Martyn PS..... and I wont tell anyone if you don't! |
Gotta say I agree with pretty much everything LostSaffa said. I've owned both bikes of various vintages and they are essentially the same thing with different styling. But the style over substance point is important - as LostSaffa pointed out, tearing off the bloody fairing to fill the radiator or check a spark plug, or fill the battery is annoying (and it wears out the fairing mounts and bolts). The cans issue is a fact; Aprilia's are prettier but rust out.
In terms of electrics I've solved most issues through two fixes: the spark plug lead and the regulator. The spark plug set-up is dumb and the Peg loses power through the resistor if not in top condition. Big BMWs and Harleys have the same kind of thing but much more robust. Replace it and you'll find starting and high-speed electrical woes are decreased. Replace the regulator with an after-market bit made for an F650 (it's always just too hard to explain the peg thing to parts dealers) and many power flow problems will be solved. I've always been able to run heaps of gear on my pegs (gps, heated gear, driving lights, cig lighter etc) without a drama. I reckon the electricals are essentially sound except for a few bits. I installed an extra fusebox but have never needed to replace a fuse. I'd think about the congenital fixes before replacing the loom. I've never heard of a peg owner having to do this, and I am dubious as to whether this will fix a problem on this bike. Pegs are born with a few problems but this doesn't seem to be one of them. cheers Brett |
BrettUAE I find it interesting to hear about the regulator making a difference because although having heard many people say the regulators gave problems, nobody was ever able to tell me they had infact changed it and noticed a difference. (like a lot of people they read it in a mag by some over paid test rider who has about thirty minutes to form an opinion on a bike, and believe it word for word). To me a regulator is a very simple bit of kit and it is the last thing I think that would go, but then again I am using only practical knowledge and not a degree in electrical so and so.
My Peg has no other electrical faults, just the one I mentioned when she just fails to even tick or make a buzz, and then two days later suddenly she works and starts first time again. I have stripped all the connections and cleaned all the exposed ends, but still she occassionally does it. I tend to think electrical problems are a process of elimination. but I have since given up on this issue with no where else to look but the regulator I suppose. |
Apologies for my poor explanation, but i didn't really mean changing the original regulator will fix general perfomance. You wouldn't change it unless it was tested faulty and/or directly affecting performance. When mine was faulty it gave me issues with intermittently not charging the battery properly when riding (ie battery would run flat, not start the bike when warm, but then work again after a day of building some charge, assuming the battery was in good condition); and it would also give me problems under load (ie too much power being used or running at high revs). So changing it fixed some problems but I don't think changing a good one for aftermarket will improve performance (but then I don't really know).
I carry a spare anyway (only cost me about $30 a year or two ago). You could replace it to see if it helped. If it doesn't, no harm in carrying a spare. If you talk to the peg community you will understand the regulator issue is not contrived. The regulator, the head gasket, and the steering head bearings are all widely acknowledged faults - and all can be rectified. Just a thought but another problem I've had over the years has been the fuse box and the integrity of the contact points. Make sure they are VERY clean at both ends and making good contact. This issue has had me sitting on the side of the road a few times going bananas. An area Aprilia under-engineered I reckon. Especially as the rear wheel is not adequately guarded and fine dust finds its way into the rear storage area and fuse box. Also problems with the earth lead. cheers Brett |
Thanks for that, I have had a few issues with the Earth lead before, another one of their bad designs with it crossing over from the main harness to fix onto the seat lock device. I will take a small file to all the connections on the fuses before I reassemble the last few bits on my PEG. I have just stripped her down and rebuilt correcting a few things and doing a major service before the summer arrives here, when Europe becomes attractive to ride towards.
My Peg has the added irritation of an alarm system that has been wired into the loom and sometimes creates issues with the starting of the bike. I want to eventually remove it, but in London these days its essential to have if you like your bike. None of the issues you mentioned with the regulator have yet to appear on mine, just the issue I mentioned earlier on about sometimes not sending any power at all to the starter. I was aware of the regulator being an issue, and realise what I said in my last post was a bit extreme saying no one ever actually trys these things for real, but rather that sometimes people say they make a difference and others say not, so its hard to know if its a good idea to follow suite. Trav |
simple solution
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Martyn |
hmmmmmm....dont know how to take that:rolleyes2:
Well it obviously put the Insurance companies off as the Peg is level9 insurance here, and that in fact brings me to another thing. The BMW is level 11 for - as explained, the same bike. Shows what a BMW badge can do ey. |
imagine it said with a grin!
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Your right though....... 2 insuranse groups higher for a Badge? Now, when are they gonna re-badge the Ducati 999 as a Jawa? :rofl: |
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Anyway, I'm just starting to look at how I will be spending the summer on my Peg, planning a few trips away. And waiting for the damn ice and salt to be gone from the roads! The joys of sunny Scotland! Glencoe is right up there on the to do list, as are Applecross, Mull and Skye. I'm also looking forward to a bit of trail riding on it, I'm under no illusions that it will be as capable off road as my XT, but, I will get my feet down a bit quicker! Pete |
I've had my Peg for a few years now and have done many a hard KM on it on mostly dirt and have had very few problems.I still love packing her up and hitting the road.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...y/DSCF0045.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...y/DSCF0037.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...y/DSCF0059.jpg Added some bits and pieces,bars,single pipe,crashbars etc. http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...s/DSCF0128.jpg Cheers A2 |
Peg upgrades
Andrew2 your peg looks good.
What pipe did you use for your single conversion. is it the f650 or fabricated ??? Also where did you get those engine bars ???? Sorry for all the questions but is your bike an Australian model or imported as mine has the same decals but I'm in the UK ??? |
This is a very old thread, but thanks to Thumper 650, it has been revitalised just at the point when I'm looking for info about Pegaso's!
I've been offered a bargain Pegaso yr 2000 but the bike is actually 150 miles away so not easy just to pop over to see it (esp with icy roads in the current bad weather). I've spent hours trawling the internet looking for info to compare the older models vs the new models. Now there are 3 variations with the Trail version being promoted for off-road. But a 2000 model? Is that suitable for off-road? Only talking about gravel, dirt and grass tracks - not mud or riding up rocky mountains! |
I very briefly had a Pegaso earlier this year.
I can tell you the bike is very good to ride and does work on light off road and trail riding, It's like all 650 Trailies a bit heavy for the really technical off road. But my ownership was brief due to an engine problem. When the garage who sold it to me eventually got to the bottom of the problem I had got to the end of my teather with them. But It's worth noting my problem was with a temperature sensor in the engine causing it to run very high on revs and eventually disintergrated the gaskets. This was probably and individual problem relating to the specfic bike. |
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