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New Triumph ADV bike
Now this is looking very interesting indeed . One road bike and another version with spoked off road wheels , and the front looks like a 21 inch .
Triumph Adventure |
Nice tyres... thats all i could see !! lol.
Id love triumph to do a decent adventure bike... |
here "S hoping this could be my next ride, should hopefully be sub 10000 and knowing hinckley they will have done their homework, bring it on.:clap:
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Rumors claim two different versions, one more off road based ... hopefully with a 21" front. Other bike more street based. All this is public knowledge. Rumors of a big Sport tourer as well. I believe we may learn more at the Milan Show in the Fall. Hard to believe Triumph would risk releasing new models when their sales are in the toilet. Bloor is a very smart guy. My guess is these could be put on hold. They can't sell what they've got on showroom floors. New bikes won't help much .... at least not in this depression. IMO, a 675 Adventure bike, if done correctly, could be a good seller for Triumph in a good economy. But you never know. The Bike business is in deep depression in the USA. Hopefully better in the EU, UK? But my guess is since we have the disease it will spread to the UK and EU. It won't kill us ... but will probably kill at least some of the rest of the world. Sorry 'bout that! :helpsmilie: |
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This bike isn't a rumour, it's currently undergoing final testing (see this week's MCN) and various details will be unveiled on the website before the showing at the EICMA show in Milan this autumn. What the rumours keep coming back to is: two versions, both based on a 675 engine (possibly bored out to 800cc). One version is road-oriented with 17" wheels, road tuned suspension, etc. The other is off-road oriented, with spoked wheels, a 19" or 21" front and longer suspension travel. If they can keep the price down below BMW levels, they may have a success on their hands. |
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Triumph have done better than most others in this depression in the USA, but sales are still slow. I talk to dealers here in California. Where California goes ... the rest of the country (and often the world) follow. Things are tough here, dealers dropping like flies. Things are not getting much better despite the spin. And don't blame Obama, this is all a Bush thing pure and simple. I agree if the price point of the new "tiger cub" is priced right it will do well here in California. Which means the rest of the nation will catch on to it in 2 to 3 years. |
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Triumph sales are far from in the toilet in UK at least, they broke all sales targets for the year up to June and they were market leaders for April May and June this year so far, no info on July yet. I know of a few dealers in the south of the UK who are pumping out new Triumph Sprint ST's and Bonny's as quickly as they can get their hands on them, and quite a few Thunderbirds aswell. There also quite an order list for the new GT 1050. Based on this information I dont think its really a risk for them to release new models at the moment, and I reckon they have got a lot more than new adventure bikes up their sleeve. Its very true that the USA is pretty screwed at the moment and its going to take many years for it to find its feet again, thus making it low on the list of priorities for some manufacturers (apart from selling their cruisers) In the mean time most of Europe and the UK are slowly getting back on their feet and getting on with it. For this reason a lot of large company's (including motorcycle) and governments look at the USA as being a bit of a dead duck/has been, right now and people are looking toword the new massive economy's of India and China to promote their goods in. |
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I should have specified US market with my "in the toilet" comment. But I'm really surprised at Triumph's numbers in the UK, I knew they were claiming good numbers but didn't realize they were breaking records. Can Triumph survive on the UK market alone? :innocent: Funny, the old Meriden BSA group did the same thing right before they folded in the late 70's "... oh, things are going smashingly chaps" then they grabbed all the money and slipped out the back door and left it with the receivers. (UK taxpayers) How are they doing world wide I wonder? Germany have always been big Triumph buyers (at one point, Triumph's #1 customer) Any figures on Triumph sales in Germany the last year? The US dealers I know are not happy with Triumph in general. Neither in my area are wild about the Rocket lll or Thunderbird ... but they do admit selling a few 'Birds at least. The UK handled the market crash/bank meltdown with far more intelligence than the US and your recovery reflects this. (Nationalization of certain banks and other policies the US did NOT do) Since you have no auto industry (apart from F-1 !!), you didn't have to worry about putting out of work 250,000 Auto workers and the thousands of ancillary industries that support the industry. But the worst of this may be yet to come .... Still lots of fiddling behind the scenes from what I can tell. No question the OEM's are looking at China and India, and too right, the US market is presently dead. No credit available for younger riders, Insurance too high, prices WAY up for everything. But the US still can figure big in Triumph's future if things ever do turn around. But the Baby Boomers are getting old and there is really no next generation to replace them in any where close to Boomer numbers. While its good news that Triumph sales are booming the UK I seriously doubt Triumph can survive on the tiny UK market alone. France have 5 times the number of bikes on the road the UK do. Germany and Italy show more bikes sales than the UK. Triumph claim to have only have 2% of the US market. When sales in the US pick up again the US could easily be the number one market for Triumph products. Triumph have done a poor job with their dealers in the US, but at least they are still advertising and the bikes are more well known than ever and very highly regarded. Getting Americans to actually BUY is the trick. Industry stats for the US show the Adventure/Dual Sport segment one the few areas where sales are not totally dead. So good move for Triumph. I hope they handle it well and hope they can take back a piece of BMW's sales in the Adventure class. :thumbup1: |
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Its interesting that France has 5 times more bikes on the road than the UK as I have heard Triumph claim that they sell 5 times more bikes in France than in the UK, which If true I think is pretty impressive. Triumph have recently told their dealers to make extra showroom space and have also upped their sales targets as they believe the new bikes are going to be big sellers. Heres hoping it all works out for them. |
I think it will be released at EICMA
Triumph enduro 2011 video http://actiontouring.com/pic/tr4.jpg It will be interesting to see what's happening, so far only BMW and Triumph sells better then last year (in Norway). |
I pulled a few stills off that youtube vid...
21" Front wheel, twin front discs, spokes, short front mudguard (sm like), screen, Led rear lights, high level silencer, looks like a narrow seat, small pathetic mirrors. Also looks like a 17" rear wheel (to be expected).. I do love the front end on it.. Knarly like the Speed triple. http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/t...m/Triumpgh.jpg |
According to a Triumph release two days ago - it is going to be a triple as they deem this smoother and a more adaptable engine for an adventure bike !, it will have - ''high speed motorway ability but retain good low down torque for lower speed gravel roads''. That to me suggests another big bike aimed at taking on the new Yamaha Tenere or gs 1200 not a lightweight usable adventure bike that many people on this site would want or prefer. Maybe another Chelsea tractor rather than a focused, trimmed down adventure bike. I wait with bated breath to see if Triumph are able to rise to the challenge of creating something different, something applicable to the term Adventure bike and actually mean it or will they as I suspect - pass up the chance of building a unique, lightweight and usable adventure machine and just follow the pack with something bigger faster and prettier than all the other Adventure bikes - nothing more than a dressed up tourer - I hope I am wrong.
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Since I've toured France twice (6 weeks each time) on my former Tiger, I had my French friend make a list of all Triumph dealers in France. You wouldn't believe it. Must have been 50 of them. (this in '03) I was shocked. I saw exactly two Triumphs in my travels there. (outside of dealers showrooms) Visiting bike meets, shows and ride outs. I visited a few dealers just for fun. One Yam/Triumph dealer let me ride the then brand new FJR1300. I tried to refuse ... he insisted. Good bike! While I was out they mounted a new rear tire for me. France is great ... just don't try to do anything on a Catholic holiday. Shut Shut Shut. (only the Donar Kebabs are open :D ) |
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Regrettably, despite probably being truer to the ideal of an Adventure bike, I think our collective wishes, needs and preferences are waaaaaaay down the list of prorities for a bike company who have or will invest £$£$ in a development program. The only adventure bike that has sparked my interest for its potential recently was the new Ténéré 660 a couple of years back. |
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I dont think its going to be much if any bigger than 800cc, the side casings in the pics look like a 675 and also the 1050 triple is getting very long in the tooth now and it would be difficult for it to meet stringent new Euro 4 noise and emission laws.
I would imagine Triumph will probably release a 1200 triple in the near future but we will see that in a tourer first and maybe later on in a larger adv bike? Also Triumph will be trying to keep costs low on this new bike, im guessing 7 to 8 grand stg. This would be hard to do if they are using a newly designed engine, which is why I think they will use a stroked version of the 675 (common Triumph practice) with similiar casings and cyl head etc. The 675 has been subtly developed over the past 4 years to make it quiter/cleaner etc to the point that many of the internals from a 2006 675 motor will not fit into a 2010 675 motor, even though they look virtually identical from the outside. Whereas the 1050 motor has not. I spent 8 days riding around France last year and was amazed at the amount of BMW tourers and Triumphs (mostly bonny's and Tigers) I met on the roads over there, I hadnt expected to see so many. And the whole closing businesses on a Sunday/holy thing is pretty common across Europe, allways has been. I really hope this turns out to be a great bike, I would be tempted to buy one if it is. |
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Triumph Tops UK Sales | Ash On Bikes The UK buys under one fifth of Triumph's output. They are now bigger than Ducati (in terms of bike production), nearly as bike as KTM and around half the size of BMW. One of the things that has kept them afloat in the UK is exchange rates. The £ has been weak against other currencies, so anything imported (like a Honda, or a Ducati) has gone up in price. Triumph were already fairly reasonably priced, but now many models look like a real bargain compared to competitors offerings that cost 15-20% more. |
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Not a trick question, just interested in your opinion. |
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It is not a feather, by any accounts, but it is pretty light for a bike that you can essentially get on and ride straight off. Other singles that seem popular, such as the DR 650 are no doubt good, but they lack a fairing, FI (which is an advantage despite the CPU fears sometimes expressed) as well as tank capacity. The 800GS fairs well in terms of weight, but lacks that tank size. The Yam's price is also good, although it has gone up since its release, and every penny not spent on a bike can go on accessories or, better still, miles. More importantly, most of the first hand accounts I've read or heard have been positive and that carries more weight than a spec sheet. Compared to the Triumph? Hard to say because most of what has been written here is hearsay and speculation: Triumph have hardly been forthcoming, it seems. That for me sounds like trying to big-up the hype before a release, but the lack of specs is maybe because it will be another road bike in Enduro clothing. I'm not saying it won't be good, but I don't think it will be what many on here hope as our needs don't sell bikes for the majority of the customer base. Ultimately, this is my own hearsay and speculation as I have never ridden any myself. |
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The biggest question in my mind about the new Triumph is the ground clearance. I think that on weight, tank size and price the new bike will be competitive, but they may have to keep the engine a bit lower to avoid a 'too high' CoG. The Tenere was priced very keenly (at least in the UK) in it's first year, but the yen exchange rate hasn't been favourable to it, and it's now looking rather expensive. We'll have to see what Triumph unveil in October, but if they can keep the weight, complexity and price down, I think they might be onto a winner. Certainly having two versions is a good move, since they go for the V-Strom and F800GS markets at the same time. |
Ground Clearance and Weight
I'm thinking Triumph can solve the ground clearance issue in two ways:
1. Suspension By adding travel, ground clearance will be increased. It's likely one of the models may use a 21" or 19" wheel. This too will raise ground clearance a bit. I'm hoping Triumph give this bike at least 10" of travel. A heavy-ish bike needs long travel to work off road. My DR650 single has 8" of travel and is STILL the lowest stock dual sport single in production. 2. Rather than move the motor UP, Triumph could do what the most innovative off road bike manufacturers are now doing: Tipping the motor either forward (a la Husaberg) or back (a la the new Yamaha YZ450F) Husaberg and Yamaha did this for handling reasons, shifting COG and mass centralization. Also, keep in mind, raising the COG really lightens up the handling feel of a bike. A low COG means slow but stable handling. In the last ten years race and sport bikes have all raised up the motors and the COG to quicken/lighten handling. This true with off road bikes as well. If Triumph simply build a Faux off road Adventure bike, suitable only for the Cafe circuit, them none of this matters. If they desire to make a true "do-it-all" travel bike, then other problems must be addressed. The 675 motor is ideal due to it's super light weight and small size. It's much smaller and lighter than either the F800GS or DL650 Vstrom motor. In fact, it probably weighs less than my DR650 motor, now a 14 year old design. |
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I would expect the 800cc bike to be far more like the 800cc GS, ideally with a bit more power and a bit less weight. What gives me hope is that the Daytona 675 (which has an alu frame) weighs 185Kg wet. |
mm as i am a short ar*ed guy 5ft 5 the BM F650GS i the right size the 800 too tall & high the 12 is ideal for a giant who is a rugby player,
Yam to tall by all accounts like to have a ride, KLM adventure ditto and heavy Triumph the Tiger ditto for bm & klm I just hope it is adventure bike to kick the germans with compertion |
Yesterday's MCN had a pile of data and pictures of the bike but didn't include the one bit of info I was interested in, which is whether the spoked wheels allowed tubeless tyres (a la 1200GS, Yam S10).
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Most Tubeless spooked wheels are expensive and soft. Will be interesting to see if Triumph end up using them as it will add to MSRP price. I believe only Behr and Akront make these and I think Behr own the patent.
John Bloor resisted going with these "cross spoke" type wheels on earlier Tigers because Behr wanted a hefty licensing fee. Both BMW and Aprilia use this wheel under license. Early versions were soft, dented easily in off road use. Perhaps later ones are stronger? The standard GS BMW no longer uses them. Note: the F800GS uses standard Steel spoked wheels. Heavy but strong. The last year of the 955i Tiger (2006) Triumph finally gave the Tiger cast Alu tubeless wheels. Customers had bitched about the spoked tube type wheels since day one ... took them 11 years to finally provide a "fix". Triumph no doubt lost thousands of sales because the Tigers had tubes, owners couldn't be bothered. |
[quote=Mickey D;298987] And don't blame Obama, this is all a Bush thing pure and simple.
quote] :offtopic: Political comment can be divisive and should be avoided. |
A cross-spoked rim is more stable then an ordinary rim if the same materials are used. If you look at the rims from the R80/100GS-era you will find that they are more solid then most other rims.
There are mainly two reasons why the R1xxx have weaker rims and that's because of cost and to keep unsprung (and rotating) mass low. The cost of a set R1200-rims are lower then the cost of a set KTM 990-rims. I can not remember to have seen cross-spoked rims on Japanese or English bikes, but I have seen them on BMW, Moto Guzzi and Aprilia. The new Super Tenere (and the old XL600LM) uses a different (and IMHO weaker) system to achieve tubeless wheels. For me this is not a big issue but I know a lot of riders prefer tubeless and some have converted bikes with conventional rim to tubeless (eg: KTM990 with parts from Capo Nord). I have converted the other way around, simply because heavy-duty tubeless rims are not available. As far as I know it has never been produced a standard cross-spoked rim with 36 spokes for 18" and 21" and I doubt Triumph will be the first, but if they do I think quite a few people will buy the rims and use them for other bikes. |
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They were one of many changes to the tiger for the 2005 model year including linear chain adjusters, single rate fork springs, 40 mm shorter fork legs with 30 mm less travel.Revised rake/trail and wheelbase reduced. Different compression and rebound damping rates and revised spring rate on RSU. The reason for all these changes and many more (which I have'nt mentioned) was to make the 2005 Tiger a more road biased bike. And one of Triumph's best sellers here in the U.K. and Europe. |
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On the forums the Tiger's continuous suspension upgrades became a bit of a joke ... rather like "Bold New Graphics". Fact is, the bike was slightly better every year. But Triumph still left out certain things riders had complained about for years ... like too big levers! Still the same on the 1050! :thumbdown: (and of course 12 years of the tubed tires I mentioned before did not help!) The top heaviness was never addressed and the heavy lump never really dealt with on the 955i. Triumph still use too much hardware in their assemblies ... too many bolts, too long, over 'spec'd for the job. Even on the 1050 I can point this out all over the bike ... much as I love it. But when you consider Triumph's size and resources ... well, they've done great. With the 675 they finally got it right. Built like a Japanese bike but not as tidy with hoses, cable routing. Still, big improvement and an awesome performer. (I've only ridden the Street Triple) The 955i Tiger was a bit of a flop in the UsA market. I'm hoping the new 800 Triumph Tiger Cub can do better. Maybe they can hire Michael Locke back to market it? He used to work for them, then went to Ducati ... now? |
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If you run the vin on a 2006 Tiger 955 you will see that its a 2005 model year bike. The suspension remained the same on the tiger 955 from 2001(vin124106 to 287503) to 2004, no changes. Seems like supension upgrade were a bit of a joke allright, there were no upgrades!:innocent: I think Triumph will be releasing more than the new Tiger (it wont be called Tiger Cub) this year. Theres a lot of interesting development work going on on Normandy way at the moment. Tried the new V-strom 650 xpedition today, now thats a pretty good value bike, the box's didnt feel all that strong though. If Triumph play their cards right with this bike it should outsell anything they have allready. |
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This is typical. A new, 2006 bike would be manufactured in 2005, says so right on the VIN / I.D. tag. But is sold and marketed as a new 2006 model. Been that way here since forever. Quote:
Triumph repeatedly made minor spring rate or damping changes, every year or nearly every year. I don't mean major changes, just minor damping rate changes to counteract the continuing complaint from the sports bikes crowd in the UK that the Tiger dove too much under braking. This crowd obviously never rode the bike on California roads doh That plush suspension and longish travel was always a good thing ... and only amateurs use front brake only on a trailie. I don't save press releases but since I owned a Tiger I usually get this right. Quote:
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All manufacturers do this. Been that way since forever. Quote:
I dont save press releases either but since I have 20 years of training notes open in front of me I know this is right. Thankfully, suspension settings are not based on Claifornia roads, or we would all be riding brash, ill handling, all mouth and no trousers hardley rideables.( I had one of these once and was astounded at how utterley crap it was, held its value though!) Quote:
Around £7500 stg here. Quote:
This thread is getting off course, (sorry admins). Lets try and keep to the subject at hand, I sense a telling off is close at hand from the mods. :blushing: |
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Please accept my sincere apologies for ever starting this thread ! AAAARRGGGHHH !!! doh:rofl: |
Horizon's Reader's Digest Version- Sanitized For Your Protection
Today was supposed to be the day the Triumph 800 was revealed to adoring fans at a pay event at the Factory ... you had to pay for a ticket!
Can you believe that!? But they've Punked out. Here is the link from Hell For Leather: Triumph Tiger 800 leakathon continues | Hell for Leather So far Triumph are jerking off their biggest fans ... and the press. I wonder how long they can do this before loyal buyers bail? :scared: But ... as I predicted over a year ago ... the Triumph 800 will not be delivered in EU/UK until March '11, earliest. But maybe ... if they are smart ... it will appear in Milan in October '11. Unless Bloor & Co deem that too much an expenditure? Or a more likely scenario is they're way behind on these bikes ... Perhaps still making changes and adjustments to proto types before locking everything in for production? :smartass: USA Launch? Mid-Summer 2011. I wonder if Triumph will stagger the release of the two models the way BMW did with the F800/F650 GS's? In the USA for about the first six months or more only the F800GS was available. In the UK I think this was reversed? 18-15:00 |
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Back on track
Anywhoooo.
To get back on subject, did anyone see the new 800 Tiger pics in MCN this week? Nice looking frame, kind of a minimalist look to it. There was some pics 2 weeks ago of the new 1200 Tiger, it reminded me of the R1150GS. Im not sure if thats a good thing though! |
Was at the Triumph Live event at Mallory Pk yesterday. They had a tent with 2 bike crates in it. One with the back crate panel removed, one with the front removed. Both allegedly had the "new" (wooopeee) Adventure bike in it. Photos weren't permitted.
From a very cursory inspection, the front end of the 1st bike had a spoked 21 inch front wheel and lots of fanicily (IMHO) molded plastic bits that looked a lot like a F800gs and the back end of the other looked like a 17 rear with, again lots of wacky molded plastic shaped stuff, like the Yam xt660 Tenere. Maybe it will be a f800gs/XT660T hybrid?doh When you get the chance, check the Triumph clothing catalogue and their "Adventure Clothing" section. I would scan and upload the appropriate (IMHO funny) pages, but I can't find the cable that connects my scanner to the PC, sorry). So, if you buy the bike, make sure you buy the gear so you can look the part... From a bygone era: http://www.thebrightstuff.com/picsFo...Brochure02.jpg http://www.thebrightstuff.com/picsFo...Brochure03.jpg http://www.thebrightstuff.com/picsFo...Brochure05.jpg Regards Bald and dyed with wool in his flies, C |
Note accessories on right of first picture:
http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/w...sterzoo132.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/...1acf94f2_b.jpg |
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What parts of Ireland did you visit? I,d really like to have made it to Mallory park yesterday for the 20 years of Triumph party, but had to work, Id like to have seen the Stranglers play there too. I think some of the other guys called in for a couple of hours. Ill have a look at the clothing catalogue in the morning when I get in. Yeah the 800 does look a little like an F800GS from the front, Im not crazy about the front "beak" though. |
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The wheels are also interchangeable, so the 19/17" cast wheels could be fitted to the XC for road duties and vice-versa. |
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I assume that the front brake disc is the same size on both 21" and 19" wheels so as to allow a straight swap without the need to space out brake callipers etc? If the same manufacuring process is used on the 800 as on the 675 then those wheels will be light as a feather! I think we're going to see these bikes before the end of the year. Would make a nice Christmas present. (For someone with a lot more money than me!) |
New 1200 adv tiger on test?
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I can't seem to find an online catalogue with "Adventure Clothing ". |
U Got The Look
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I found the scanner cable that my son abducted. Here is the double page: http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...adventure1.jpg http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...adventure2.jpg Here we are folks the dream we all dream of boy versus girl in the world series of love so tell me do you got the look? you walked in i woke up I never seen a pretty girl look so tough baby, you've got that look i color you peach and black color me taking aback crucial, think i want ya you’ve got the ADVENTURE look you've got me hooked shor-nuff do be cooking in my book your face is jammin' your bodys hecck-a-slammin if love is good lets get to rammin you’ve got the ADVENTURE look you’ve got the ADVENTURE look you’ve got the ADVENTURE look it must of took a whole hour just to make up ur face baby closing time ugly lights, everyones excepted (whoo) but you are a natural beauty unaffected did i say that out loud? my face is red i stand corrected you’ve got the ADVENTURE look you've got me hooked shor-nuff do be cooking in my book your face is jammin' your bodys hecck-a-slammin if love is good lets get to rammin you’ve got the ADVENTURE look you’ve got the ADVENTURE look well here we are ladies and gentlemen the dream we all dream of OH PLEASE boy no versus girl in the world series of love a bammin you walked in i walked in i woke up you woke up i never seen such a pretty girl look so tough baby baby you've got that look I color you peach and black color me takin aback BABY crucial i think i want ya you’ve got the ADVENTURE look you've got me hooked shor-nuff do be cooking in my book your face is jammin' your bodys hecck-a-slammin if love is good lets get to rammin you’ve got the ADVENTURE look you’ve got the ADVENTURE look Prince: U Got The ADVENTURE Look Songwriters: Nelson, Prince Rogers (adapted version by Chrispy Sprite Songwriters Inc.) Very :offtopic:, but funny?:surrender::donatello:. Probably Not. |
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One more (will that instrument cluster have a proper analogue rev counter I wonder?)
http://www.visordown.com/uploads/images/Huge/14626.jpg |
A few pics of "official accessories"...
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/...3edc0d57_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/...e2a6bc17_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/...c2683573_b.jpg |
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Looks to me like the first thing TT is going to bring out is an indicator relocation kit. Drop that bike in the crate and you'd better remember your hand signals and hope it isn't MOT day!
Andy |
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It's easy to make your own with a short length of thick rubber hose .
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The bike looks promising ,from the jigsaw pictures .
But a cheap and nasty chain adjuster ,why can't they use a snail cam adjuster ? Hopefully they have kept down the weight of the bike [and the price]. |
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As for the price, I agree - the price of this bike needs to be very reasonable, there are signs of cost cutting and I hope this is reflected in the retail price. If they price it right, I can see them selling loads. |
hope they will show it at Bike Live (was NEC Bike Show) Nov 27 to dec 5
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For anyone interested in the Tiger 800, a new dedicated site and forum has been set up here:
Tiger 800 - Index |
Triumph Tiger 800xc
Looks like a choice of bike. See this weeks MCN for fist road test.
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As a newbie in every respect I can't add to the debate other than I fancy an adventure bike once I have managed some touring on my Sprint GT.
Main reason for the post is to thank you all for your posts. Great info for me. I'm going to the bike show in Birmingham (UK) at the end of Nov and I'm already pressing my dealer for info on the new adventure bikes. |
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