New Triumph ADV bike

[Warthog]

Originally Posted by adventure950

That to me suggests another big bike aimed at taking on the new Yamaha Tenere or gs 1200 not a lightweight usable adventure bike that many people on this site would want or prefer. Maybe another Chelsea tractor rather than a focused, trimmed down adventure bike. I wait with bated breath to see if Triumph are able to rise to the challenge of creating something different, something applicable to the term Adventure bike and actually mean it or will they as I suspect - pass up the chance of building a unique, lightweight and usable adventure machine and just follow the pack with something bigger faster and prettier than all the other Adventure bikes - nothing more than a dressed up tourer - I hope I am wrong.

That pretty much sums up my expectations.

Regrettably, despite probably being truer to the ideal of an Adventure bike, I think our collective wishes, needs and preferences are waaaaaaay down the list of prorities for a bike company who have or will invest £$£$ in a development program.

The only adventure bike that has sparked my interest for its potential recently was the new Ténéré 660 a couple of years back.

[Warthog]

Originally Posted by Mickey D

France is great ... just don't try to do anything on a Catholic holiday. Shut Shut Shut.

Make that any Sunday or Monday, particularly "en province": time off is taken very seriously over there!!

[adrian74]

I dont think its going to be much if any bigger than 800cc, the side casings in the pics look like a 675 and also the 1050 triple is getting very long in the tooth now and it would be difficult for it to meet stringent new Euro 4 noise and emission laws.
I would imagine Triumph will probably release a 1200 triple in the near future but we will see that in a tourer first and maybe later on in a larger adv bike?
Also Triumph will be trying to keep costs low on this new bike, im guessing 7 to 8 grand stg.
This would be hard to do if they are using a newly designed engine, which is why I think they will use a stroked version of the 675 (common Triumph practice) with similiar casings and cyl head etc.
The 675 has been subtly developed over the past 4 years to make it quiter/cleaner etc to the point that many of the internals from a 2006 675 motor will not fit into a 2010 675 motor, even though they look virtually identical from the outside. Whereas the 1050 motor has not.

I spent 8 days riding around France last year and was amazed at the amount of BMW tourers and Triumphs (mostly bonny's and Tigers) I met on the roads over there, I hadnt expected to see so many.

And the whole closing businesses on a Sunday/holy thing is pretty common across Europe, allways has been.
I really hope this turns out to be a great bike, I would be tempted to buy one if it is.

[thephantom]

Originally Posted by Mickey D

How are they doing world wide I wonder? Germany have always been big Triumph buyers (at one point, Triumph's #1 customer) Any figures on Triumph sales in Germany the last year? The US dealers I know are not happy with Triumph in general. Neither in my area are wild about the Rocket lll or Thunderbird ... but they do admit selling a few 'Birds at least.

According to this:

Triumph Tops UK Sales | Ash On Bikes

The UK buys under one fifth of Triumph's output. They are now bigger than Ducati (in terms of bike production), nearly as bike as KTM and around half the size of BMW.

One of the things that has kept them afloat in the UK is exchange rates. The £ has been weak against other currencies, so anything imported (like a Honda, or a Ducati) has gone up in price. Triumph were already fairly reasonably priced, but now many models look like a real bargain compared to competitors offerings that cost 15-20% more.

[thephantom]

Originally Posted by Warthog

The only adventure bike that has sparked my interest for its potential recently was the new Ténéré 660 a couple of years back.

What do you like about the Ténéré 660? And particularly, what advantages do you think it has over (the current info on) the Triumph 800.

Not a trick question, just interested in your opinion.

[Warthog]

Originally Posted by thephantom

What do you like about the Ténéré 660? And particularly, what advantages do you think it has over (the current info on) the Triumph 800.

Not a trick question, just interested in your opinion.

Weight, tank size and not draped in relatively useless stuff that is essentially for show and little else. I like function over form if pushed to chose...

It is not a feather, by any accounts, but it is pretty light for a bike that you can essentially get on and ride straight off. Other singles that seem popular, such as the DR 650 are no doubt good, but they lack a fairing, FI (which is an advantage despite the CPU fears sometimes expressed) as well as tank capacity.

The 800GS fairs well in terms of weight, but lacks that tank size. The Yam's price is also good, although it has gone up since its release, and every penny not spent on a bike can go on accessories or, better still, miles.

More importantly, most of the first hand accounts I've read or heard have been positive and that carries more weight than a spec sheet.

Compared to the Triumph? Hard to say because most of what has been written here is hearsay and speculation: Triumph have hardly been forthcoming, it seems. That for me sounds like trying to big-up the hype before a release, but the lack of specs is maybe because it will be another road bike in Enduro clothing.

I'm not saying it won't be good, but I don't think it will be what many on here hope as our needs don't sell bikes for the majority of the customer base.

Ultimately, this is my own hearsay and speculation as I have never ridden any myself.

[thephantom]

Originally Posted by Warthog

Weight, tank size and not draped in relatively useless stuff that is essentially for show and little else. I like function over form if pushed to chose...

It is not a feather, by any accounts, but it is pretty light for a bike that you can essentially get on and ride straight off. Other singles that seem popular, such as the DR 650 are no doubt good, but they lack a fairing, FI (which is an advantage despite the CPU fears sometimes expressed) as well as tank capacity.

The 800GS fairs well in terms of weight, but lacks that tank size. The Yam's price is also good, although it has gone up since its release, and every penny not spent on a bike can go on accessories or, better still, miles.

More importantly, most of the first hand accounts I've read or heard have been positive and that carries more weight than a spec sheet.

Compared to the Triumph? Hard to say because most of what has been written here is hearsay and speculation: Triumph have hardly been forthcoming, it seems. That for me sounds like trying to big-up the hype before a release, but the lack of specs is maybe because it will be another road bike in Enduro clothing.

I'm not saying it won't be good, but I don't think it will be what many on here hope as our needs don't sell bikes for the majority of the customer base.

Ultimately, this is my own hearsay and speculation as I have never ridden any myself.

I also like the look of the Tenere 660, but for me the achilles heel is the road performance. Any offroad riding I do will be preceded by at least 2-3 hours of road riding, and the single isn't much fun at motorway speeds.

The biggest question in my mind about the new Triumph is the ground clearance. I think that on weight, tank size and price the new bike will be competitive, but they may have to keep the engine a bit lower to avoid a 'too high' CoG.

The Tenere was priced very keenly (at least in the UK) in it's first year, but the yen exchange rate hasn't been favourable to it, and it's now looking rather expensive.

We'll have to see what Triumph unveil in October, but if they can keep the weight, complexity and price down, I think they might be onto a winner. Certainly having two versions is a good move, since they go for the V-Strom and F800GS markets at the same time.

[Mickey D]

I'm thinking Triumph can solve the ground clearance issue in two ways:

1. Suspension
By adding travel, ground clearance will be increased. It's likely one of the models may use a 21" or 19" wheel. This too will raise ground clearance a bit. I'm hoping Triumph give this bike at least 10" of travel. A heavy-ish bike needs long travel to work off road. My DR650 single has 8" of travel and is STILL the lowest stock dual sport single in production.

2. Rather than move the motor UP, Triumph could do what the most innovative off road bike manufacturers are now doing: Tipping the motor either forward (a la Husaberg) or back (a la the new Yamaha YZ450F)

Husaberg and Yamaha did this for handling reasons, shifting COG and mass centralization. Also, keep in mind, raising the COG really lightens up the handling feel of a bike. A low COG means slow but stable handling. In the last ten years race and sport bikes have all raised up the motors and the COG to quicken/lighten handling. This true with off road bikes as well.

If Triumph simply build a Faux off road Adventure bike, suitable only for the Cafe circuit, them none of this matters. If they desire to make a true "do-it-all" travel bike, then other problems must be addressed.

The 675 motor is ideal due to it's super light weight and small size. It's much smaller and lighter than either the F800GS or DL650 Vstrom motor.
In fact, it probably weighs less than my DR650 motor, now a 14 year old design.

[thephantom]

Originally Posted by Mickey D

I'm thinking Triumph can solve the ground clearance issue in two ways:

Some good ideas there for sure.

If Triumph simply build a Faux off road Adventure bike, suitable only for the Cafe circuit, them none of this matters. If they desire to make a true "do-it-all" travel bike, then other problems must be addressed.

I'm hoping that they aren't building a bike for the cafe adventurer. In some respects the bigger Tiger 1050 (which has a shaft-drive 1200cc replacement rumoured to be coming in the next 2 years) means that the on road-adventure market is already covered.

I would expect the 800cc bike to be far more like the 800cc GS, ideally with a bit more power and a bit less weight.

What gives me hope is that the Daytona 675 (which has an alu frame) weighs 185Kg wet.

[Selous]

mm as i am a short ar*ed guy 5ft 5 the BM F650GS i the right size the 800 too tall & high the 12 is ideal for a giant who is a rugby player,

Yam to tall by all accounts like to have a ride,
KLM adventure ditto and heavy
Triumph the Tiger ditto for bm & klm I just hope it is adventure bike to kick the germans with compertion

[Tim Cullis]

Yesterday's MCN had a pile of data and pictures of the bike but didn't include the one bit of info I was interested in, which is whether the spoked wheels allowed tubeless tyres (a la 1200GS, Yam S10).

[AliBaba]

More "info":
YouTube - 2011 Triumph Tiger 800 3rd teaser official video

[AliBaba]

Originally Posted by Tim Cullis

which is whether the spoked wheels allowed tubeless tyres (a la 1200GS, Yam S10).

It's hard to tell forom the video, but it doesn't look tubeless.

[Mickey D]

Most Tubeless spooked wheels are expensive and soft. Will be interesting to see if Triumph end up using them as it will add to MSRP price. I believe only Behr and Akront make these and I think Behr own the patent.

John Bloor resisted going with these "cross spoke" type wheels on earlier Tigers because Behr wanted a hefty licensing fee. Both BMW and Aprilia use this wheel under license.

Early versions were soft, dented easily in off road use. Perhaps later ones are stronger? The standard GS BMW no longer uses them. Note: the F800GS uses standard Steel spoked wheels. Heavy but strong.

The last year of the 955i Tiger (2006) Triumph finally gave the Tiger cast Alu tubeless wheels. Customers had bitched about the spoked tube type wheels since day one ... took them 11 years to finally provide a "fix". Triumph no doubt lost thousands of sales because the Tigers had tubes, owners couldn't be bothered.

[Geoff van de Merwe]

[quote=Mickey D;298987] And don't blame Obama, this is all a Bush thing pure and simple.

quote]

Political comment can be divisive and should be avoided.