who can crack this conundrum?

[mfbx8ds6]

Hey guys - hope everyone is well. Ive got a fairly complicated situation and am interested if anyone has a feesible solution - the more legal the better:

- I am an Englishman with an English motorbike license
- I bought a KLR650 off another Englishman in Chile last april and have ridden it up to Costa Rica
- He had bought the bike and registered it in Colorado and then ridden it down to Chile - it still has the colorado number plates
- It was impossible to transfer the title papers so we obtained a power of attorney which is what I have used for all my border crossings - the bike is still in his name.
- he signed off his part of the title documents and ave it to me so that I can sell it in America.
- The number plates have expired
- I do not have an american license or know anybody with an american address
- a minor point but due to a truly rediculous law in england my motorbike license is restricted to 25kw which converts to 33 horse power - therefore it would be illegal for me to ride my KLR650 in england.

I am planning to enter America in about a month and then head up the west coast to Vancouver. I am sure I will be able to get the bike into america on my power of attorney - however what do i do next to ensure I can cross America without being stopped by every single cop. I also want to sell the bike either in Canada or America - what do I have to do to make this possible or is it impossible?

hope you can help - as i said a bit complicated.

Duncan

[ta-rider]

Hi,

If you have the power of authority of the official owner (in the papers) the only problem i see is the restriction in your drivers license so i would get a international licence with no resctriction field...

Travel save

[markharf]

No, the problem is in the expired registration. You or the original owner needs to register and insure the bike before riding in the States or Canada with it.

The US doesn't have restricted licenses, so unless yours is very, very obvious (big red letters in bold print) no one will even notice. Even if they do, you are free to tell them that the KLR delivers whatever horsepower you wish.

Mark

[CourtFisher]

Duncan,
Have you tried a simple Colorado DMV online vehicle registration renewal:
https://www.colorado.gov/apps/dor/dm...al/welcome.jsf

If that fails/ is not allowed, a CALL to CO DMV might get someone
helpful:
Department of Revenue - Division of Motor Vehicles:Contact Us
Titles and Registration
Phone: (303) 205-5607
International Registration Plan (IRP)
1881 Pierce St., Room 114
Lakewood, CO 80214
Phone: (303) 205-5602

...or, DMV might tell you to "piss off"

Can we assume that the previous Brit owner is nowhere to be found, and/or
not in a position to help you renew the registration ?

It is a conundrum; good luck

[craig.iedema]

Originally Posted by mfbx8ds6

I am planning to enter America in about a month and then head up the west coast to Vancouver. I am sure I will be able to get the bike into america on my power of attorney - however what do i do next to ensure I can cross America without being stopped by every single cop. I also want to sell the bike either in Canada or America - what do I have to do to make this possible or is it impossible?

hope you can help - as i said a bit complicated.

Duncan

How legal do you want to be? I am sure that riding it around for a couple of days wont get you caught. You could always get a laser printer and print your own tag to cover it. I just registered a bike in AZ really easily (see this). Online insurance is easy also.

[mfbx8ds6]

Originally Posted by ta-rider

Hi,

If you have the power of authority of the official owner (in the papers) the only problem i see is the restriction in your drivers license so i would get a international licence with no resctriction field...

Travel save

This is a great idea - slightly embaressed i had not thought of this before - and even better I already have an international drivers license - just checked it and it doesnt mention my restriction - will be fine for getting insurance but would never be able to claim on it - they´d be onto that in a flash.

[mfbx8ds6]

Also guys - if I were able to get to a DMV office, without being stopped by the police, would i then be able to put the bike into my name solely with the title document that the previous owner signed off - IM assuming that once it is in my name i can get new plates and insurance.

Surely I cannot sell the bike or renew the plates soley with my power of attorney.

also i am very much in contact with the previous owner - would the easiest solution be to ask him to renew the plates online?

Thanks for all the replies - starting to think there may be a solution

[craig.iedema]

Originally Posted by mfbx8ds6

IM assuming that once it is in my name i can get new plates and insurance.

For insurance you can just go online and key in the VIN number and an address I along with the normal name and crap, no plate number needed. I actually insured my bike before I even imported it into the US.

[xfiltrate]

It is probably true that I know more about Argentine motor vehicle law
than motor vehicle laws of my own country USA, but I do know if your Power of Attorney was drafted and signed in the USA, legally you would also need an apostile to accompany it for each country you ride through. Of course, this is a legal issue and will not come up unless you have an accident with major property damage or personal injury.

An Apostile is issued by the State, by the Secretary of State, within which the notary or attorney witnessed the signiture of the owner authorizing you use of the bike. There are different formats for an apostile for each country and each must specify the country and the fact that the notary, attorney who prepared the POA was legally registered and able to do business in the State where the POA was issued.

You have crossed many borders and you might make it to the States, but a POA signed in Colorado might not carry much weight in a border state of the United States, I do not know if POA are recognized from one state to another. Perhaps someone can speak to this issue.

Please keep us updated. And, consider all the implications that might result from being illegal if and when it comes time to make a claim on your insurance.

I just recently purchased moto insurance in Argentina and offered my Driving credentials to which the insurance agent replied no need to show a drivers lincense now, but if you don t have a legal one, our company will not pay any claims nor provide legal representation for you.

xfiltrate eat, drink, and be careful

[markharf]

The US answer (which is what's being asked about, right?), long version:

Power of attorney as it's being used here conveys not ownership (no way: that's what the signature space on your title or registration is for), but the right to use a particular bike. Get it? You can use this bike, even though it doesn't belong to you.

In America, you could accomplish the same thing by just having the owner write a note and sign it. Or by him giving you permission without writing anything down at all. No one cares.

Your problem remains (as I said above) that the bike is not currently legally registered. Once you enter the USA, if you get stopped for anything at all (including failure to display a valid plate, i.e., one which demonstrates that the bike is currently registered), they'll run a check on the registration and find out you're not driving a legal vehicle. They'll write you a ticket, and they won't let you proceed. What are you going to do then: call one of the people who gave you bad advice on the internet to ask for a lift home?

Worst case: you get in an accident. The cops show up, because that's what they do when you have an accident. First thing they ask is for license, registration and insurance card. Uh oh. Your insurance won't cover you, since the vehicle is not legally registered. The other parties in the accident might perfectly well sue you (welcome to America). You won't have anything driveable, because the cops have just discovered your bike is not legal on the highways. Hmmmm.

Fer gods sake ignore all the irrelevant advice in posts above. Figure out how you're going to make the bike legal: in your name, in someone else's name, in Colorado or in the first state you come to when you cross the border. Don't trust people here to give you accurate answers about how to do that without at least confirming it by Googling the registering authority of the state in which you propose to accomplish this (e.g., Washington Department of Licensing, Colorado Department of Motor Vehicles). It's not difficult and it need not be complicated, but exactly how you'll best do this depends on the specific state.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

[craig.iedema]

Originally Posted by markharf

The US answer (which is what's being asked about, right?), long version:

Power of attorney as it's being used here conveys not ownership (no way: that's what the signature space on your title or registration is for), but the right to use a particular bike. Get it? You can use this bike, even though it doesn't belong to you.

He has indicated that the Title has been signed in the relevant place(s).

Fer gods sake ignore all the irrelevant advice in posts above. Don't trust people here to give you accurate answers about how to do that without at least confirming it by Googling the registering authority of the state in which you propose to accomplish this (e.g., Washington Department of Licensing, Colorado Department of Motor Vehicles).

I assume that is, in part, a shot at what I have written. I don't consider it irrelevant, the OP asked about registering a bike in the US, I provided information from someone who has done just this. It is based on actual experience. I have insured, registered (and imported) a bike in Arizona - three days ago. All I needed was an address. I rode it around for a couple days unregistered without getting caught. Naturally this is not without some risk.

If the OP can get AZ address (I asked on ADV). Coming out of Mexico if OP crosses at Nogales he can be in say Tucson in an hour and legally registered an hour after that.

Hell if he is unsure he could find somewhere secure in Nogales to leave it and catch a bus to the nearest DMV and back.

This not a complex process, so don't make a meal out it for him.

[motoreiter]

A couple of comments:

1) a Colorado power of attorney is valid in all states (don't forget the UNITED States bit...). While a power of attorney is typically used to allow people to use vehicles, depending on the wording of the power of attorney (ie, if it says you can do so), you can also use a power of attorney to sell it, although I don't think you need to, since you are already indicated on the title as owner.

2) I highly recommend riding around the US with fake plates, would not be kindly regarded. Expired plates are not good, but better than fake. Does the plate actually have the expiration date on them (sometimes done with stickers)? Police might not know they are expired unless you are pulled over.

3) Every state has different registration procedures, but generally it is very difficult to register a vehicle without being a resident. Craig apparently recently had success in doing so in Arizona, right on your way, so you should look into that.

4) If that doesn't work, in most if not all states, when you buy a bike, the dealer can give you a temporary (paper) plate which is good for 30 days. Maybe you could pay some dealer some $$, so that you'd sell him the bike, immediately buy it back, and get a temp plate. Dunno...

5) I'll admit right up front on this point that I don't know what I'm talking about, but are you sure you can get in the US without valid insurance? At the borders of many countries this is something they certainly check, to protect their citizens from uninsured foreigners; not sure if the US is the same way.

Good luck, let us know what you figure out.

[Cam Johnson]

Markharf is correct. You must have a license of some description from a preferably 1st World country, current registration and insurance for a bike with US plates. I bought my KLR in Louisiana (but luckily had a local license at the time) and was able to do all the necessary formalities through a 'licensing shop' who processed and issued a sticker & plates.

It was not the DMV but some kind of agency. The process was easier with a local license but not impossible with out. My experience of the infamous DMV is that all of the awful rumours we hear about them are true and our life is not long enough to waste dealing with them.

Simple possession of the ownership 'pink slip' is enough for proof of ownership in some states.

Don't worry about your license in the States, I got stopped a half dozen times and cunningly used my New Zealand license and twice the officers tried to 'run' my license and twice I heard their dispatcher report they had no way of checking my alien card. The other times the guys just let me off straight away, minor infractions of course. I found that most Yank cops start off with a hard head attitude, but once they realise you are a foreigner, and you give them the respect they're looking for, they're normally pretty decent blokes and inclined to let some things slide. Just have all your documentation ready and don't muck them about.

The exception is insurance & registration because normally you can't have one with out the other. You are risking court and impounding of your bike if you are caught riding without either. Perhaps you can arrange to have the Colorado DMV or other authority renew online and send you the new rego sticker?

Anyway, your KLR is listed at putting out 34 hp at the wheel so your UK license is probably legit to begin with.

Get on the net mate & good luck
CJ.

[estebangc]

I just wrote on a similar thread about Chile; different issue, but some principles may apply, I hope it helps: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...866#post404350

I'll refer to some general principles (mainly based on continental law, not common law, however), so that we may draw conclusions.

In general terms, a Power of Attorney is an authorization signed before a notary who gives public faith of your identity, your capacity, your free will and the legality (and coherence) of the faculties given through the POA (cannot be "I authorize you to kill X or to sell the Eifel tower"). There are also other POAs where the Notary only legalize your signature (as you showed your passport and he confirmed your identity), but does not refer to the content, he even did not look at it. These may be valid as well, but are more tricky (not accepted in Spain, for instance).

Throuhg the POA you may authorize to buy a house, sell a car or sign an insurance contract, as well as to ride a bike, whatever is legal.

Some special clauses may be added, which sometimes are necessary: I allow you to sell the bike, but if I add a special clause, you can sell it to yourself (in Spanish, "autocontrato"). I may also allow you to transfer those faculties to a 3rd person (you cannot sell the bike, so based on this POA, you go to a notary and sign a POA for your brother, so that he can sell the bike on behalf of the person who initially authorised you). We call this "substitution clause" (in Spanish, don't know in English).

The Hague Apostille is an international stamp which is intended to certify the "legality/competence" of a domestic document abroad. In the case, the authority stamping the Apostille certifies that the POA was signed before a Notary, and not a lawyer (who may not competent; depends on the country) or the baker (who surely is not). So, a POA signed in Chile, to be used in the US, should get the Apostille stamp, then be translated by an official translator. If it's a US certified translator, it would be good to go. But if it were a Chilean translator, the translation would also need to be stamped with the Apostille, in order to prove in the US he's actually a certified translator and not your brother who lived in Kansas and speaks very good English. That's the logic behid the Apostille: you don't know how the foreign documents look like, but you know the Apostille. So, if it is there, you are sure you are accepting a "good" foreign document.

You "bought" (=paid for) the US-registered KLR from a(n English) guy who signed a POA authorising you to use it, right? That means HE is the owner and you only have the possession of the bike; he borrowed you his bike and both are still in contact. So, ask him to go to a Notary in the UK to sign a POA authorising you to sell his bike (allowing you to buy it for yourself), to insure it, to ride it... a General POA regarding solely the bike. Then he should stamp it with the Apostille and send it to you. Both UK and the US are parties of the Apostille Convention, so the US officials have to accept the POA.

For the rest, I cannot tell you, there are well informed opinions here. I think I would park the bike on arrival to the US border, would take a bus and would solve the rest with the POA (unless it can all be done on line), then I would come back to pick up the bike. That way (I think) you would remain totally legal, whether you change ownership or not.

I hope it helps. Happy travels,

Esteban

[mfbx8ds6]

hey guys

sorry ive been a bit slow to reply - been out on dirt roads in the middle of "&$%& nowhere in NIcaragua - met a man that had never seen an onion and punched a pig in the face (he was sniffing my tent from the outside)

First off a massive thanks for everyones help - pretty sure there si something to be taken from everythignt at has been pu forward.

I am going to insure the bike online before I get into the States - that will at least solve that problem and yes I am definitely going to do this the legal way - not a chance i am going to risk having the bike impounded

A big point I need to clarify is that the POA was obtained in Chile in a Notary and is written in Spanish - IT IS NOT FROM COLORADO - but states that I am legally allowed to ride the bike in America.

Secondly the license plate´s expiry is only displayed using stickers that can easily be removed. As such I am thinking that I may attempt to ride the bike from the border to the very first DMV office - if I do happen to get stopped what are the chances that if I explain to the police I have just ridden 17,000 miles from Tierra Del Feugo and I am on my way to legalise the bike that they would then impound it.

What I dont understand is whether I will definitely be able to put the bike into my name when I get to the first DMV. A guy I met emailed me stating

"you as a UK citizen cannot register a bike in the US legally without a driving license, social secutiry number and a permenant address that you can prove"

But this surely cannot be completely true as the previous owner (an englishman) was able to register it in Colorado. I think I need to find someone in the state where I am going to register it whose address I can put down - Im thinking of entering through California.

Basically I still need to know that if I get to a DMV office in California will I be able to register the bike in my name simply by filling out the other part of the title document (that the previous owner signed off) and handing that in as if the transaction had just taken place (this assuming that I have managed to find an address to use).

I have already asked the previous owner if he could renew the registration but he claims he would have to buy insurance to do so and is thus justifiably unwilling (although maybe if i offered to pay for the insurance).

Also the POA I have mentions nothing about giving me the right to sell the bike and as such I do not think I would be able to with just this but I am going to look into the option of having a new POA sent out from the previous owner giving me the right to sell the bike.

I am looking to sell the bike in Vancouver and will probably only be in the US for about 2 weeks - I am running out of time and money.

Finally is there anything I need to do in advance (before I get to the states) to faciliatet this process and make the border crossing easier?

ANy help will be greatly apppreciated.