Basic Paperwork for North and South America

[pilot62]

Hi all,

Quick question - didn't see any answer in the FAQs, etc.

My bike is just short of being paid off. So I don't have a title? Is it necessary to have the bike title to travel beyond the US?

Anything other must haves. I'm assuming normal insurance and MC license. What about Carnet? International Drivers License?

Thanks,

Chris

[quastdog]

Well, as one American to another (won't vouch for any of this for any other nationalities):

Customs agents in one or more countries (can't remember which ones now - Chile was one I believe) asked for the bike title. They seemed to know the difference between the title and the registration. So, if you run into one of these types, then you may have a problem if you don't have the title. I'd suggest you contact the lien holder and try to get permission, in some sort of letter of release.

A CARNET IS NOT NEEDED IN SOUTH AMERICA, although some countries would appear to have it, in writing, as a requirement. Its just the folks at the border/points of entry can be persuaded they are wrong. I was asked about it when crossing from Colombia into Ecuador. Ecuador seems to be the one country this comes up the most, but when asked I just said I didn't have it, and it never came up in conversation again, and I didn't have a problem getting the temp import doc on the bike.

No one I have met traveling in CA/SA HAS HAD TO PRODUCE A CARNET!

I've not had to provide an IDP in CA/SA, but I haven't been to Brazil yet (or a few other countries). I've showed it when asking for my drivers license - so far they've all sort of looked at it and gone "huh?" and where much more happy when I showed them a good copy of my state issued drivers license. However, it just makes sense to spend the few dollars required to get it and carry it.

As to "normal insurance" (what's that?):

AS FAR AS I KNOW, there is no US vehicle insurer that covers your motorcycle or car once you cross into Mexico. You get insurance from the countries you travel through - there is no policy you can get covers you for all of CA and SA. And probably can't get (or afford) comprehensive coverage - damage on your bike, theft, fire, etc. You are only buying 3rd party liability coverage - protection for when you hit someone or something.

I've been asked twice at Argentine border crossings for the insurance on my bike - that's insurance from an Argentine issuer. No other time in SA. In CA (Mexico), its required, and a couple other CA countries, but where it is, its sold at the border crossing. If you get into a country without it, it may still be "legally" required. But I can't tell you about that - I just kept my insurance situation in mind when riding. And again, since many CA/SA countries follow Napoleanic law instead of English law, then you are guilty until proven otherwise - carrying liability insurance is usually your get out of jail card should the worst happen.

Once again, what seems to be official requirements and what's practiced are different, so no one can really give a good answer - sort of depends on whose asking, what they know about US documents (usually little) and the specific situation.

[lamble]

Originally Posted by quastdog

Well, as one American to another (won't vouch for any of this for any other nationalities):

Customs agents in one or more countries (can't remember which ones now - Chile was one I believe) asked for the bike title. They seemed to know the difference between the title and the registration. So, if you run into one of these types, then you may have a problem if you don't have the title. I'd suggest you contact the lien holder and try to get permission, in some sort of letter of release.

A CARNET IS NOT NEEDED IN SOUTH AMERICA, although some countries would appear to have it, in writing, as a requirement. Its just the folks at the border/points of entry can be persuaded they are wrong. I was asked about it when crossing from Colombia into Ecuador. Ecuador seems to be the one country this comes up the most, but when asked I just said I didn't have it, and it never came up in conversation again, and I didn't have a problem getting the temp import doc on the bike.

No one I have met traveling in CA/SA HAS HAD TO PRODUCE A CARNET!

I've not had to provide an IDP in CA/SA, but I haven't been to Brazil yet (or a few other countries). I've showed it when asking for my drivers license - so far they've all sort of looked at it and gone "huh?" and where much more happy when I showed them a good copy of my state issued drivers license. However, it just makes sense to spend the few dollars required to get it and carry it.

As to "normal insurance" (what's that?):

AS FAR AS I KNOW, there is no US vehicle insurer that covers your motorcycle or car once you cross into Mexico. You get insurance from the countries you travel through - there is no policy you can get covers you for all of CA and SA. And probably can't get (or afford) comprehensive coverage - damage on your bike, theft, fire, etc. You are only buying 3rd party liability coverage - protection for when you hit someone or something.

I've been asked twice at Argentine border crossings for the insurance on my bike - that's insurance from an Argentine issuer. No other time in SA. In CA (Mexico), its required, and a couple other CA countries, but where it is, its sold at the border crossing. If you get into a country without it, it may still be "legally" required. But I can't tell you about that - I just kept my insurance situation in mind when riding. And again, since many CA/SA countries follow Napoleanic law instead of English law, then you are guilty until proven otherwise - carrying liability insurance is usually your get out of jail card should the worst happen.

Once again, what seems to be official requirements and what's practiced are different, so no one can really give a good answer - sort of depends on whose asking, what they know about US documents (usually little) and the specific situation.

Quastdog, when are you back in Seattle, as there are a couple of us setting of to TDF in October and hopefully we can draw upon your experiences.

Cheers.

[Mr. Ron]

In my travells through Mexico, C. America, Colombia and Ecuador, i have only had to produce my vehicle registration. In Costa Rica, i was asked for a title, but in British Colombia, your title is the registration. This blew over without a problem. Really, because there is no connection between L.America and any other country, all you need is a piece of paper which looks valid and important with the following info:
Vehicle Registration (in big letters)
Country of origen
Registered owner and address
Registration number
Plate number matching the bike
Year, make and model
Color
VIN
Displacement
*note* in BC there is Aircare, an emmisions test from which motorcycles are exempt. On my registration is written Aircare Expiry, which is left blank because i ride a motorcycle. Because customs officials understand the word expiry, this became a problem for me because it was left blank. It took a $20 bribe to the nice lady in Aduana to get this sorted out.
In reality, i believe a person could easily forge a document, place a stamp and signature and place it in a plastic sleave so that it looks official and get away with it. The officials have no way of knowing if it is real or not, and don't really care, as long as all the numbers match and the name matches the passport. BTW, i'm not condoning this and haven't tried it myself... yet. I just feel it would work because i use only photocopies of my original without any problem. My BC registration is the most un-official looking piece of paperwork i have! Also, i have it copied on my computer in PDF format so that i can change the info if needed, say i need to sell the bike and produce a vehicle registration with the buyers name on it.

... oh yah, definately get the international drivers licence, two if you can. You will be stopped at some point by the police and they will threaten to not give you your licence back unless you pay them the fine they are asking for. Simply refuse to pay and tell them you will pick up the licence from the main office and pay the fine there. This will usually get your licence back, but if not, so what? It's a small loss! but if you use your REAL licence, which is a very important document, your screwed and easily extortable! Never give the police your real drivers licence! Many people photocopy their original licence and laminate it for this purpose. If your gonna play the game, be prepared!

[quastdog]

Originally Posted by lamble

Quastdog, when are you back in Seattle, as there are a couple of us setting of to TDF in October and hopefully we can draw upon your experiences.

Cheers.

Maybe not until 2009 now - there's the Dakar thing to seriously consider. Plus, with the US dollar tanking, south america is a cheap place to hang.

[Smellybiker]

The IDP is not valid in Brasil as I discovered at the police station after being hit by a car. Apparently Brasil never ratified it & their annual license fee includes some sort of 3rd party insurance that the IDP doesnt have.

Its only a problem if you get into trouble, every cop that stopped me there was satisfied with a laminated copy of my UK licence ;-)

Originally Posted by quastdog

I've not had to provide an IDP in CA/SA, but I haven't been to Brazil yet (or a few other countries). I've showed it when asking for my drivers license - so far they've all sort of looked at it and gone "huh?" and where much more happy when I showed them a good copy of my state issued drivers license. However, it just makes sense to spend the few dollars required to get it and carry it.