Discharge carnet & certificate of location

[jamieT]

Hi All,
Can anyone help with this. I've always thought that as long as the carnet was stamped out of every country that stamped it in, then it could be discharged and deposit returned. My attention has been drawn to these lines in the RAC documentation.

The last page of the Carnet ("Certificate of Location") must be completed and witnessed by an official authority(Customs, Police or Judiciary) either in the UK or the country of final import. Failure to do this may delay therelease of the security to the Carnet holder who can still be held liable for customs duties. RAC can advise

Is this the case, or was I basically right in my initial assumptions.

Cheers

[Surfy]

Originally Posted by jamieT

Hi All,
Can anyone help with this. I've always thought that as long as the carnet was stamped out of every country that stamped it in, then it could be discharged and deposit returned. My attention has been drawn to these lines in the RAC documentation.

The last page of the Carnet ("Certificate of Location") must be completed and witnessed by an official authority(Customs, Police or Judiciary) either in the UK or the country of final import. Failure to do this may delay therelease of the security to the Carnet holder who can still be held liable for customs duties. RAC can advise

Is this the case, or was I basically right in my initial assumptions.

Cheers

Yes, that is like described.

To release the money quickly, the last Page has to be stamped... Your homecountry will stamp it on the border, when you show the carnet.

If this part is not stamped, the carnet issuer hold the money for a while - in cause of liability against the travelled countrys.

[mrsgemini]

As surfy says the last page must be signed etc on arrival back to the issuing country before it will be ackowledged by the issuer.

Margaret

[itchyfeet38]

In order for a carnet to be discharged the vehicle has to return to it's country of registration or be permanently imported into another country and the relevant duties paid.

The certificate of location is just the proof that one of those two things has happened.

If you just had to stamp out of a country and return the document to get a discharge then there would be nothing stopping you from importing the vehicle somewhere on a TIP and selling it without paying duties .. which is exactly what the carnet is designed to prevent happening.

[jamieT]

Thanks for the replies.

This raises the question of how do travellers sell their cars on to other travellers in Africa. as I see advertised here frequently.

Also what about the situation of travelling on a carnet, say through Africa, before continuing on to a region where a carnet is not required, say ship to S America. How then would you discharge a carnet when the documentation states that the carnet must be returned within 3 months of the expiry date.

And another thing, I'm almost certain that I didn't complete the last page on my previous trip, simply stamped out of Tunisia, drove home and sent the carnet back. Maybe I was just lucky....?

Thanks in advance, I appreciate the input.

[jpyrek]

You coudl have been lucky. It is humans after all that are in charge of carnets!

As far as your S. America question, you have a couple of options. 1) Go home with the vehicle first, or 2) extend the carnet. We met a lot of people that were extending/getting new carnets while en route. Apparently it is common and easy. We were only on the road for 6 months so we didnt' need to.

We left our vehicles in Africa and donated them to a charity that made sure all import requirements were met. We realized we couldn't legally sell the vehicle in South Africa and leave it there, so found this way instead.

The charity was more than willing to accept the vehicles and so it worked out for everyone.

TO be fair, unlike many people, our vehicles were purchased in the US for $1300 and $2500....so less than $4k for two vehicles. Hell, the carnets cost $3600!

[itchyfeet38]

I think the RAC are getting much tighter in terms of "to the letter" compliance than they have been in previous years. There have been various posts about people having problems recently. I read one a few weeks back about someone who wasn't being allowed to simply renew a carnet for a vehicle abroad because they had provided a bank guarantee for the original carnet and (for some unknown reason) the RAC have removed this as a security option. So the poor guy in question was being faced with the possibility of having to take out indemnity insurance for the new carnet but not getting the bank guarantee on the expired carnet released until the car was back in the UK ie double financial whammy.

It won't be fun but I'd perhaps start a dialogue with them now and see what the options are. On the question of selling I suspect they will say you can sell the vehicle, the new owners can take out a carnet of their own but you won't get a release until the vehicle is back in the country of origin or legally imported elsewhere - which will of course be completely out of your control. They will probably say (and technically they are right) that a carnet is only intended to cover a temporary absence from the country of origin not to allow vehicles to be (semi-) permanently kept elsewhere. Of course that doesn't help people who have relied on previous practices continuing and have a car overseas.

It is a real headache for people who want to do extended trips and/or don't necessarily want to return the vehicle home.

Good luck and I think many people would be interested to hear how you get on.

BTW I understand the RAC will be at the UK HUBB event at the end of the month and giving a talk/taking questions. So perhaps there will be some more clarity after that.

[jamieT]

Thanks again,

I fear that the comments regarding RAC issued carnets are true. They are getting tighter and more picky.

It must be a nightmare for those planning renewing with bank guarantees, and was quite tough for us last year. Firstly they demanded a second deposit, until the first carnet was returned. I get the reasoning, but it was out of the blue and required some creative financial management., Secondly they decided that the original valuation of the vehicle was not acceptable. They eventually agreed that it was not realistic to change their minds on a valuation mid trip.

We were really hoping to get through Kenya before the carnet expires and move onto TIP systems for the rest of Africa and S America. While another option was for my canadian friend to buy the car and switch it on a Canadian carnet as we both exit one country and enter another. The CAA see absolutely no problem for him, but think that I may struggle to regain my deposit.

I'd welcome any further input, especially from those that have sold on cars while abroad, but in the mean time might be going back to the drawing board as far as plans are concerned.

Cheers