renewing UK road tax while abroad
 

Has anyone experience about renewing road tax abroad?

(My bike doesn't need MOT until 2008).

Thanks

Fernando

Fernando
The UK authorities only require Road Tax if the vehicle is used on UK roads. If it is abroad (even in the EU) there is no requirement that the vehicle be taxed. There is information confirming this on the DVLA website.
But don't forget to submit an SORN or they will start adding up the penalties. Also to renew the SORN a year later if out on a long trip.

The MOT is also only a UK thing and other countries do not require foreign registered vehicles to have their own similar local equivalent - but it might be an idea if you are confident about it's condition.

internet
 

you can now renew road tax over the internet. But only if you have had 'new style' MOT (i.e. one which is logged on the computer database).

The problems come about when your MOT has also expired.

I left UK well over 12 months ago now. MOT ran out July of last year and TAX ran out August.
Consequently I assume my insurance is now invalid.
Though insurance is absolute pain also if you need/want to be out of country for over 6 months and/or you plan to travel outside of European Union. (both of which i am doing !)

It's a strange thing the TAX issue, technically speaking I believe to drive legally in European Union your vehicle should be insured/taxed/MOTd from your home country.
But, if your tax has expired while you are trouping around say Austria, who is going to prosecute you ? i.e. UK system or Austrian ?
In my experience whenever police or customs checks arise they have only (ONLY) ever been interested in seeing : Passport > Ownership papers > Insurance > Drivers licence. Never has TAX been an issue.

Phil.

Thanks Phil and Tony,

I suppopse while I remain in Asia no one is going to say anything about my road tax.
But, it may be an insurance issue regarding travel and medical insurance that states the bike should be legal on the country of registration. The same applies, I think although I'm not sure, if you want to take to Australia.
Also there is the coming back. I will turn up in a year's time or so at Folkestone and, frankly it is easier to pay 90 quid now that having to pay fines and license penalties for riding a vehicle that should be out of the road. Or riding across Europe Uninsured to reach the UK, now that I think of it!
I may need to call the DVLA. I hate just the though of it!

fernando

I don't know if you've done a search on the archives but there was a thread on this a year or two back. It wasn't good news though. I seem to remember the conversation with the DVLA went something along the lines of:
(explains problem to DVLA official) "are you permanently exporting the vehicle"?,
"No, I want to keep it UK registered but it'll be out of the uk for more than a year"
"If you're not permanently exporting the vehicle then you must either SORN it or MOT /tax it"
"How can I MOT it if its out of the country?"
"Sorry, not our problem"

Somebody suggested that when you're returning you phone ahead and book an MOT appointment near home so that you can ride from the port.

Thanks all.

I just talked to the DVLA. And yes they don't have good news for you.
To renew your tax disc you need to fill in and send a form called the V10. With it include the original log book, a valid MOT and the certificate of insurance. about this one they said a print out its not valid, so I wonder what do I do because I'm insure by e-bike and its all done through the internet.

Surrendering the log book it's also a problem because it leaves you without papers for the bike. That means a lot of trouble if you are stopped and no crossing borders! They take tow weeks but warn that there can be delays. Add to that the time for the documents in the post.

If the vehicle is more than 12 moths out of the country the DVLA considers you have exported it and there is no way around it.

I asked if the vehicle can be declared off the road and I was told the bike have to be in the UK.

They even get patronising and tell you that you should have your documentation and tax sorted out for the duration of your trip... but this has to be what they think your trip should last, that is less than a year.

I'm annoyed, really.

Still if you had an experience like this, please, let me know what did you do or if you found a way around it.

Thank you.

Fernando

here's what i'd do.
 

1) when tax runs out find internet cafe go online and declare bike SORN (which technically it is as you are not using on UK roads).

2) remove expired tax disc from bike and enjoy rest of your holiday.

3) couple days before returning either get a friend in UK or pick up 'phone yourself and book bike in for MOT at nearest garage to ferry port (probably easiest to find telephone number before leaving).

4) come home. MOT bike. If it passes go to nearest post office and re-tax (this will cancel the SORN automatically). If it fails. Ride home, if you get stopped you have a legitimate failure certificate allowing you to ride and if cops get funny coz of distance just explain exactly what you've done and they'll let you ride on home no worries.

Phil.

Thanks a lot Phil!
I suppose I loose my sense of humor sometimes. Yo needed with DVLAs, carnet issuers and so on!

f

continuing from Phil above..

5) it still away a year later remember to again renew the SORN online.

I have looked in to this and when we start on the rtw trip that will last for about 3-4 years we have a reminder in the diary to get to an internet cafe to declair SORN. then worry about it when we get back. the only inconveniance is you have a 2 week window to declair it SORN online as it wont accept it before the 15th of the month of expire.

I suppose another way would be to leave completed SORN declarations (in the forms rack in UK Post Offices last time I looked) in envelopes for whoever remains behind in charge of your affairs to post at the appropriate time.

I was wondering if it would be practical to export it (ie fill in the tear off strip from the V5 and post it) as you leave the UK. Then you've got no UK worries about SORN or Road Tax while you are away. When you get back, book in for an MOT in your home town, drive there from the ferry and once MOT'd restart the procedures to import back into the UK. I know of one rider who's done this and he has been re-assigned his original registration number without a problem. I also met a car driver on the ferry recently who was bringing a car back from France. It had been exported 16 years ago and still had its UK plates as the import routine to France had never been completed. It was insured and he had arranged an MOT back in its home town of Cardiff. You would have to be very unlucky to be prosecuted when you can show you have done everything reasonable to comply with the regs.

Yeah...
I do wonder...
But, what sort of status you have while not registered in the UK?
And what papers of the bike do you keep? Do they make you send the DVLA log book back?
I dont think will be a good idea totrying to cross national borders with a bike that only have export papers!
Also, do you think they will charge you to re-import it?

Thanks

f

You don't have to hand in the V5 when you export it, it's just a small tear off strip. I would make a couple of photocopies first anyway, but if you want to be absolutely sure you could always order a duplicate first.
You won't be charged to re-import it, but I guess there will be a registration fee (I think it's about £35)
My preferred option is to take a French registered bike. They don't have road tax in France and bikes don't need MOTs.

Thanks Paul,

its a bit too late for me. I'm in Central Asia already!

f

The DVLA says that if a vehicle is permanantly (ie for more than 12 months)exported the UK registration ceases. Part 11 of the V5 should be returned to DVLA and the first page retained to register it abroad.

Technically, unless re-registered, there is no reciprocal rights to use the vehicle in other countries that arise under the Geneva Convention.

Although you may chose to still wear the number plate (having returned part 11 or not) it has no validity and could possibly hinder any insurance claim. But I think one would be very unlucky to fall foul of an over-zealous (and over-informed) policeman outside the EU who can spot this if you still have the rest of the V5 and all the numbers agree. Within the EU Registration Documents are uniform to comply with European Directive 1999/37/EC so M. or Herr Plod may be able to spot this or find out.

I have heard of people making high quality photocopies of all their documents (vehicle and rider), laminating them and producing these when confronted. How would someone running a roadside check in Mongolia know much different? It also makes 'doing a runner' easier too, as you still have the actual documents hidden away and possibly another set of photocopies for the next occasion!

As you may gather, I generally prefer the example of Lord Nelson.:cool4:

A vehicle can be re-registered and re-assigned it's original number in UK if it can be proved to have been on the same vehicle before - this is common among classic vehicle restorers where registrations and records lapsed or got lost in the years of decay. If this cannot be proven they are assigned a non transferrable date related style suffix or prefix plate or, even worse, a Q plate.

...'there is no reciprocal rights to use the vehicle in other countries that arise under the Geneva Convention'.

Thanks Tony, does this means you can or cannot legally use the vehicle abroad? And, is your Insurance still valid in the EU?

Photocopies, even not warped in plastic are good for most cops, at least in all the former soviet republics. Only at the border between the Ukraine and Russia I was asked for originals.

I don't think I'll 'export' the bike.
I t looks like declaring it off the road in the uk is less bother and less legal trouble.
I think it will be easier to arrange all back to normal when entering back the UE.

Still, they could have some provision for our situation at the DVLA!

f

Excellent advice.. the other possibility is to export the bike to France. No mot's for bikes or road tax either :)
do not send back the reg document. tell the dvla you have to keep it with you as it is a requirement of french law. they will send you an export certificate. Make sure the type on the export certificate is on the list of types in the french system. To do this go to any insurer and ask for a quote. pick the model nearest yours. be sure this type is printed on the export cert. then you will just sail through the french registration. Use you original log book to get the bike re-registered in the UK.

Dodgydago

The Geneva Convention is an agreement by which signatory states agree to abide and covers many aspects of international behaviour. Best known is the treatment of prisoners of war during wartime, but this also covers many other areas including the use of road vehicles between states.
Under this any vehicle registered in one state has the right to temporarily be used in another state subject to certain conditions. It follows that if the originating state's registration is cancelled the use of such vehicle elsewhere is no longer valid or acceptable.

Cancellation of a registration is different to SORN where the registration continues but the vehicle is not used on UK roads.

One condition is that each vehicle carries national identification discs of certain size and style (ie. GB plate), which must be black on white background. Blair's government, cow-tow-ing to Europe, accepts the use of the little blue "EU plates" on the side of number plates for visiting vehicles from other EU states who in turn accept ours. Yet the Geneva Convention, as signed by Great Britain, does not allow any opting out of any part. It's all or nothing.
So Britain cannot accept or use the EU system of the blue National Identification on plates if it seeks to uphold and honours its obligations under the Geneva Convention. Yet it does. Interesting academic point!

I recommend a proper GB plate if going beyong the EU even if not used within the EU.

The legality of registration and use of a vehicle is different to insurers requirements. That is a matter of negotiation and written contract between Insurer and Insured. However the EU requires that any motor insurance policy issued within any member state automatically includes the minimum legal insurance required by each member state across all member states. IE. a fully comprehensive policy from (say) France or Poland only provides the minimum (Road Traffic Acts) insurance here in the UK, unless specifically mentioned otherwise.

We (I!) are getting bogged down in legality. Personally I am happy to follow the procedures suggested by Phil and OldBMW above, on the basis of common sence and what can be found out elsewhere.
Do ensure you Insurer knows the correct situation though, otherwise you could be in very deep financial and legal trouble should a serious incident occur.

Just to be pedantic on the points of legality even though it wouldn't bother me too much.
Although the DVLA do not care whether you are SORN or not if you are out of the UK, other EEC countries technically do. Your vehicle is only legal in other EEC countries if it is road legal in its home country. Hence your UK vehicle should be taxed and MOT'd for it to be legally driven in France, Greece etc.
I'm not sure about non-EEC countries.
So once your MOT and/or road tax runs out you are technically illegal, certainly within the EEC. Possibly also your UK insurance may also be void if your vehicle should not legally be on the road.
The chances of this being a problem to you are very remote as the average French/Italian/Greek policeman either doesn't know or care, so long as you have registration papers and insurance.
As someone above mentioned it would only be a problem if you had a major incident. If you were to have such an incident which involved a foreign country or your insurance company contacting the DVLA to check if you had road tax I think whether or not your bike was SORN or exported would be the least of your problems.
I would say most people who want to ride a motorcycle off the beaten track are not going to let themselves get too tied with formalities.
The issue here is trying not to stir up trouble for yourself when you eventually return to the UK and find several fines waiting to be paid for daring not to renew your road tax or informing Swansea your bike is off the road.
If I was going for a year or two I'd probably go the SORN route, for a longer trip I'd definitely consider exporting it.

Thanks to all.
I wil sorn the bike. It seems the best option.
It's just that, at least me, hesitate when falling into one of these holes of legaly forced into ilegality.
Maybe we should gather a few people and let the dvla know that enduro riders on long trips are falling into this loophole.
f

It is also possible for 'A N Other' (my father in our case) to take the SORN reminder document to post office and get it SORN'd on your behalf - but give the implicit instruction for them to say nothing and do it as if they were you (lets not worry about that legality!) It's likely anyone on road may have someone in UK checking post etc so this is an option. (Our bike wasn't out of tax on trip, but the others at home were SORN'd - what a PITA all round)

UK self assessment
 

Slightly off-topic but still on the same lines.
Does anyone have any ideas for the best way to handle this one. Try file it on-line from an internet cafe. Tell the I/R you are leaving the country for a while.
Otherwise that's another automatic £100 fine for not filling in forms!

I,ve just gone through that one, but, whn you have no activity for one year the tax return takes five minutes to fill in.

DD

interesting...
 

Hi Guys...

as I'm about to depart (couple of months) on a long-ish trip and likely not be bringing the bike back in a year, there's some very interesting advice here.

just one question, how would one export a bike to France to take advantage of their slack(er) laws regarding MOT, Tax etc without an address there to use?

If we have a viable answer to this, and I can insure it there, it's happy days.

cheers

kevsta

Sorry, but you do need an address in France, even if it's just an acquaintance who can give you a letter to say you are staying there. To register or re-register a vehicle in France you need an address and something to "prove" you are living there or at least have an address where the bike will normally be kept. You would probably also need to be in France for at least a couple of weeks to organize it.

I'm soon to leave the UK and facing the same dilemmas - it seems to work (SORN etc), but my question would be - how does that affect your insurance?

(speaking of which, does anyone have any standout insurers for a trip to Europe, Africa and Asia?)

Gareth
:helpsmilie:

GOLDEN RULE: Insurers should be informed of everything - then they can't wriggle.

If the vehicle is to be out of the home country for an extended period they should be told. Most UK insurance includes the very basic minimum legal cover (usually similar to RTA) in other EU countries at no additional cost for up to a certain number of days a year. Some insurers don't need to be told, others do. Most UK Certificates of Insurance have foreign wording on the reverse confirming this and should be accepted by other EU police forces.
Check your policy, even if going to Calais for an afternoons shopping. If you want equivalent cover abroad as you have at home they must be told, and they will no doubt charge something.

Not having a current MOT is not in itself sufficient reason for Insurers to decline a claim unless the claim arose from an incident that could have been influenced by mechanical soundness. eg. No MOT for ineffective lights generally would have no bearing on a daytime crash, neither does a lack of an MOT influence a thief - but Insurers will try it on !
An MOT can be taken by Insurers as a possible indicator of mechanical condition (and therefore value) even though the certificate states it is only met the legal minimum standard on the day of the test - which could have been 364 days ago.

Being on an SORN, in my view, would not affect insurance even if you are using it on UK roads - insurers only concern about your honesty is with them !