Carnet needed for Russia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia?

[Birgersson]

Is it true that I don't need carnet for Russia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia? I have been searching for a while, but not found something clearly written.

I'm thinking about buying a really cheap car, and drive it as long as it goes. When it brakes down I will give it away to who ever happend to be there, and take a plane home. And I can't do that if I have a carnet...

[MotoEdde]

No you don't...
Kazakhstan grants you an automatic temporary importation thats good for 6 months...if you're not out by then, then you will face importation taxes, etc.

Russia has their own temporary import documentation for your vehicle. Make sure that if you're doing a multiple/double entry...the importation document and accompanying insurance covers your ENTIRE visa duration.

Mongolia...same as Kazakhstan...temporary...I forgot for how long.
This was true as of June-August of 2007...things may have changed.

StanTours is also a good reference and source for your Russian visa...they're on the Net.

HTH

[Tony P]

Russia - no carnet required for an EU registered vehicle, probably not for any foreign registered vehicle. You just need your Registration Document (an unofficial translation helps speed things up at the border, but not obligatory) and Insurance issued by a Russian Company, bought at travel or tourist offices close to the border.

This insurance is only the basic minimum as required by law. Foreign insurers' certificates are not accepted by the Police, even if your 'home' insurers have extended cover to include Russia. Example of cost - 3 months for a motorcycle last summer cost me GBP32 (approx 45 Euro or US$60)

On entry, a Temporary Import Certificate is issued that must be carried on the vehicle and produced at the very many Road Police spot checks. My certificate was valid for 3 months (but could possibly be for up to 6 months) and the vehicle must leave Russia before that certificate expires.

Sorry, not been to Mongolia or Kazahkstan - as yet.

[Tony P]

MotoEdde,

Re Russia.
I agree about ensuring your personal Visa allows multiple entry but the vehicle is treated afresh each time it is presented at the border and its past history does not seem to be a problem.

I left Russia for Estonia and re-entered via Lithuania the following day without any query.

[MotoEdde]

Originally Posted by Tony P

MotoEdde,

Re Russia.
I agree about ensuring your personal Visa allows multiple entry but the vehicle is treated afresh each time it is presented at the border and its past history does not seem to be a problem.

I left Russia for Estonia and re-entered via Lithuania the following day without any query.

Tony,
When you enter Russia the vehicle registration is for the duration of that singular entry, even on a multiple entry, I agree.

BUT the insurance purchased can cover the entire visa duration on a multiple entry. Not buying insurance that covers your entire visa period doubles your insurance cost unnecessarily.

Good point on buying the insurance at a travel agent BEFORE arriving at the border...I didn't realize you could do that.

[Birgersson]

What about this "Temporary Import Certificate", will it be a problem if I leave Russia without the car? Do it has to signed out of the country, or will I have to pay a fee for not exporting the vehicle again? I want to go as far as the old car survives, and then give it away to some local and take the train or air home.

[henryuk]

If you have the TIC with you when you leave, and you present it at customs then you might have a problem. I am 90% sure that if you don't have it then you don't have a problem - I don't think they have the customs and immigration systems that well linked. If you are prepared to wait long enough and pretend to not understand anything then you can get through most borders OK, it's just easier to let you slip through than deal with you 'properly'....

[Birgersson]

So there is no mention of this TIC in the visa or passport? Exactly what I wanted to hear

Time for a big adventure

[Tony P]

There is no reference to the TIC in your passport.
The only stamps the Russians put in your passport indicate the date, place, the issuing officers number, and a symbol showing your means of arrival/exit. A car symbol by road, an airplane if at an airport. No doubt a train and boat if appropriate.

I don't know how they would react if you arrived by road and left by air. There is nothing on the 'road' stamp to indicate if you were a driver/rider or a passenger.

All entry and exits ARE recorded in the computor and can be called up at the border. I once stood at Narva/Ivangorod (Estonia) border for 15 minutes while the bored border clerk checked each of my 20+ stamps against the computor record before letting me in. Presumably this record also records the mode of transport by reference to it being an airport or road crossing point but being a passenger or driver does not, I think, appear.

As HenryUK says, I too doubt that Border Controls are that closely linked or coordinated with Customs Controls, who issue the TIC. At some road crossings they are a little distance apart.

My experiences of Russian burocracy is that each person's concern is only their own little patch of duties and they are not in the least bit interested in the next guys job or the overall situation. Good for us!

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Giving the car away to a local?

Nice idea but this could be problematic. The very frequent Police spotchecks on all vehicles require to see Russian Registration documents - permanent or the TIC. So anyone (you or locals) using it after the TIC expiry will have big problems.
When obtaining a local registration, proof of payment of Import Duties will be required.
Also the TIC does have reference to you and your Passport so if it fails to be surrendered on exit within time limits, or for local registration, they know who you are - but not where you are!

Having said that, over the last 2 years I have regularly seen a UK registered Ford Transit (untaxed - but that is for a different thread!) that is in daily use and parks overnight at a block of flats just across the Moscow River from Red Square.
I don't know how he does it. A Rus friend of mine lives in the same building so I will try to find out when there next week.

[Birgersson]

Thank you very much for the info, it's invaluable!

[MotoEdde]

HenryUK and Tony P,
Actually I wouldn't presume that.

Last June when I crossed from Kazakh into Russia near Semey, and when I exited by the Western Mongolian entrance; your TIC was cross referenced agaist your passport #...and entered into a computer.
The same was true when I exited Mongolia for Russia and exited Russia for good in Zurubina.
Whether the computer for immigration references the customs computer to clear you when you leave Russia, is not something I'd try with the Russian's these days...maybe Mongolians...and I try some outlandish things!
They WILL confiscate your passport and threaten you with jail time...ask Dave from Davesgreatescape.com...unless you pay several hundred Euro.

[Tony P]

Originally Posted by MotoEdde

Tony,
Good point on buying the insurance at a travel agent BEFORE arriving at the border...I didn't realize you could do that.

The Tourist Office at Narva, Estonia (about 300m from the border) gave me a list of a dozen or so places in Narva that would sell me insurance from a Russian Insurance Company. The tourist office even rang one for me to confirm they would do it there and then. All they wanted to see was the Bike Registration document, my UK Drivers Licence and IDP, and my Passport. The process took about 10 minutes.
The fee must be paid in cash, local cash only - Estonian EEKs. They directed me to a Bankomat/ATM round the corner for it, while they completed the documentation.

Sure, you can use the same Insurance documents on re-entering Russia, if still current, as I did when I re-entered Russia (Kaliningrad) from Lithuania after returning from 'mainland' Russia.