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RogerM 12 Feb 2007 04:03

OLD list and discussion of Countries that require Carnet de Passages en Douane
 
Found this list of countries that require CDP - please read the footnotes before writing that all of Europe is carnet free.

Countries in Which the Carnet de Passages en Douane (CPD) is Required
(1)


Africa
(2)

Benin, Bophuthatswana, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cameroun, Central African
Republic, Chad, Ciskei, Comoros, Congo, Egypt, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Lesotho, Libya, Malawi, Mauritania, Namibia, Niger, Senegal, Somalia, South Africa, Swaziland, Tanzania, Togo, Uganda, Zimbabwe.
America
Argentina, Brazil
(3) ,Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dutch Antilles,
Ecuador, Jamaica, Paraguay, Peru, Surinam, Trinidad & Tobago, Uruguay,
Venezuela.


Asia & Middle East
Bahrain, Bangladesh, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq
(5) , Japan, Jordan, Kuwait,
Lebanon, Malaysia, Myanmar, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Singapore, Sri Lanka,
Syria, United Arab Emirates, Yemen.


Europe
(4)

Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Turkey.

Oceania
Australia, New Zealand.

Footnotes
(1). This list may contain errors due to changes in national legislation, correct as at 1/1/2006
(2). In certain African countries, the CPD is not officially required, but is often used to facilitate temporary importation.
(3). In Brazil, the CPD is not required for vehicles entering by land routes, but is required for vehicles arriving by boat.
(4). In these European countries, the CPD is required only for certain categories of vehicles. The CPD is not required in these countries for private vehicles.
(5). CPD system is not currently functioning in Iraq. There is no guarantor club and therefore will not validate temporary entry under Carnet.

javierCarrion 12 Feb 2007 08:26

here we go again!

this list is absolutely wrong . Horribly wrong. I am so tired of saying that No carnet is needed in most Africa . that I wont´go again.

for an up to date list of countries which require carnet (i.e. those which if you don´t have a carnet you cant not enter the country) go to wikipedia and look for Carnet de Passage.

This list is more or less accurate and up to date ( I am the mantainer of that list )

I can assure you that you can enter mauritania , mali , niger , ,nigeria , chad , camerun , congo , angola namibia sudafrica , both guineas , gambia , senegal , sierra leona , ghana (recently) , ivory coast , togo , benin , CAR , etc..etc..etc.. without a carnet.

Indeed , in order to not mislead people .. Id sugest the moderator to remove this entire post , as Its going to mislead a hell of a lot people.

Thanks
Javier

moggy 1968 12 Feb 2007 12:50

senegal requires a carnet for all vehicles over 5 years old, although you maybe able to obtain a laissez passez at the border.
gambia requires a carnet for right hand drive vehicles.

Frank Warner 13 Feb 2007 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by javierCarrion
this list is absolutely wrong . Horribly wrong. I am so tired of saying that No carnet is needed in most Africa . that I wont´go again.

Hummm ..

Australia does not requier a carnet ... but you are better off with one than without!!!!!

That may also be the case in Africa .. at least in some countries.

So perhaps the word 'require' could be changed to ? advisable ?

SgtMarty 13 Feb 2007 06:07

I thought all of the Americas were Carnet-free.

javierCarrion 13 Feb 2007 08:29

>>>So perhaps the word 'require' could be changed to ? advisable

HI ..
no no no. Most countries on these list won't hassle you at-all for not having a Carnet. You end up paying the same fees (scam) for either the Passavant , or for Stamping the carnet (ussually around 5 Euros a go)

Compare this minor hassle compared to all the nightmares of getting a carnet , or losing the vehicle , or losing the carnet , or Both ! . Also , Id go even further :

When you have a carnet , you are in a very vulnerable position . Most policemen know that , and as soon as they stop you ( for whichever reason ) they demand your carnet OR passavant . ok . A passavant is just a piece of paper , and they don't give a damm , but they KNOW that a carnet is worth Thousands of dollars ,or even a equity on your house , and they ussually extort the unhappy tourist trreatening about ripping off the carnet , etc.. etc..

I have seen happening so muuuuuch times , man !! . (on the other hand .. I honestly think that people still using a Carnet in countries such as Mauritania or Mali , etc.. actually deserve it - no joking- .

If you see who is actually insisting on the use of the carnet .. Its just RAC , RACC , RACE , etc...etc.. No one from Africa will tell you that you really need a carnet. No one. Its only the embassies in Europe (who know nothing about their own country ) , or people which mistakes a carnet de passage with a Carte Griss .

Insist : Since a few years Its no longer required a Carnet to travel in Africa . Every country issues some way or another to enter the country without it .

and -for newcomers- never forget that if you loose the Carnet , or the vehicle (fire , theft , crash , accident , or getting stuck ) you LOSE ALL THE INDENMITY. This adds from several thousand bucks to tens or even hundred of grands in teh case of nice Unimogs.

So whichever Hassle would be without a carnet .. Its not worth . People which think entering Senegal without a carnet is a Hassle , they are gonna be hassled anyway for the most mundane issues.

F uck Carnets! . Its perfectly possible travel without them in Africa . They are a hassle , are expensive , are pointless , risky gambles with a lot of cash on them.. Feel Generous ? spend the same ammount of the cost of the carnet in real people in Africa , not into a Bank , or the Swiss RAC ! .


Have a nice day

Frank Warner 14 Feb 2007 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by javierCarrion (Post 126844)
When you have a carnet , you are in a very vulnerable position . Most policemen know that , and as soon as they stop you ( for whichever reason ) they demand your carnet OR passavant .

As a carnet is a customs document .. why should a policeman need it? And why would you give it to him? And why would you not have a 'copy' to give it to him .. and let him keep it .. similar to your IDP, riders licence .. etc.

If they keep the passavant .. well the liablity may not be as much .. but I'd think it would be a similar threat.

javierCarrion 14 Feb 2007 02:13

HI...

The Carnet de Passage / and or / Passavant is the only doccument that the police can (and will) ask you to show ownership of the vehicle.

for whichever reason (other than in the border ) they are not interested on the carte gris , or the V5.1 . They demand to see either the Carnet , or the PAssavant

- in a way makes sense , as supposedtly the passavant is only issued if you can show a propper carte gris , etc ,People at the borders are used to any different regional variation of carte gris , etc... while road side policemen would be confused , but they surely know exactly how their own country´s passavant looks like


If for whichever reason you loose / taken from/ your passavant , is as simply as getting into the next town ´s custom office (every town got something like that ) and pay for another , brand new passavant (around 5 euros )
I lost once one , and got stolen by a police another . And no problem whatsoever. Should that have been a real carnet de passage and I would be still making repayments to the bank

Have a nice day
Javier

Frank Warner 14 Feb 2007 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by javierCarrion (Post 126921)
The Carnet de Passage / and or / Passavant is the only doccument that the police can (and will) ask you to show ownership of the vehicle.

In that case a good copy would do the job.. less than 5 Euros to copy mine at home... :) Just got to carry enough of them!

waverider 14 Feb 2007 05:22

Carnet
 
I got into Ghana without a carnet however i think it would have been easier with one. I am now concerned about other countries, particularly South Africa and i'm thinking of getting a false carnet, talked about on this website, even though my travel policy is not to do anything illegal.

do you think its a good idea?

Frank Warner 14 Feb 2007 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by waverider (Post 126931)
do you think its a good idea?

No.

I make copies of all my documents - and try to use the copies if at all possible. That saves the originals from ware, tare, mud, water, dirty fingers, running ink, etc, etc.

To make a false document .. well it is not a good idea. You are much better off with a real one or a direct copy of it. And several direct copies of the real one (allows for lots of wet weather for one). Some places with enough computer links can check things like carnets and if your caught using a false one then you may well be turned back .. not a good thing at all.

Noblequest 15 Feb 2007 17:58

Carnet to import vehicle to Argentina?
 
Hello,

We are planning on shipping four bikes into Argeninta from Canada. We have been told we will need a carnet to clear the bikes through customs in Ushuaia. Is this true? We will be leaving Argentina days after arriving, and within a month we will be back in Canada. Is it worth getting a Carnet. Do we need one? Will it make crossing borders easier?

Rob Noble
Noble Quest - Argentina to Alaska on V-Strom 650s

ukKev 15 Feb 2007 20:40

just back from Senegal last month on a 1999 1100gs with no carnet & know of older BIKES that were there without one . It may be different for cars as was told the presidents brother imports 2nd hand cars into senegal & may not want compition . The ploice did want to see my insurance a few times.
kev

Robbert 16 Feb 2007 11:46

Carnet = usefull!
 
Javier,

I feel you're reacting a bit strong against the carnet. On my trip down to south africa in 2003/2004 I've used a carnet as of Burkina and further south. I didn't use it in Mali because indeed it wasn't needed and I thought it was safer not to use it. But then I had to extend the laisze passer twice, which took me the best part of the day + some 'liquide' to make the machine turn. That's when I decided to use the Carnet for the rest of the trip.

Using the carnet was really painless, and didn't incur additional costs for stamps as mentionned in your post. Also no need to get extensions and other formalities done once in the country. It does cost around 200€ though, which makes for a lot of border crossings on a laiser-passer. On a regulare west-africa trip I indeed would consider not taking a carnet, but for anyting more involved it pays of dividends if you ask me.

DRC does not recognize the Carnet, but it can be used at least at the Cambinda and Matadi borders.

In Congo-B I came accross a customs officer that didn't know the CDP and he fined me ... .

Nice research. Probably a pretty good reference for westerners. Depending on your country of origin the list may be different.

Rob

javierCarrion 19 Feb 2007 08:03

Hi Rob ..

well , my point is not that you can use the carnet in Africa . OBviously you can use it , probbably in Europe aswell . My point is that you can cross Africa exactly the same , without a carnet.

A carnet cost 200UKP ,but you need to upfront a indemnity of the value of your vehicle . If you lose -either the vehicle or the carnet or both- , damage it or have it stolen , you lose your total indemnity , which deppending on your vehicle can be from 1000 UKP to 20-30K for newer 4wd or 100K for a good 4x4 truck.

Does IT really compensate ? I think no way .

ok . It may save you time while getting the ´passavants (neligible ammount of time compared to say -visas- or insurance ) . but ..speaking about time .. how many days you waste at home arranging the carnet ? It took me 4 days , 200 Euros , 1500 Euros of warranty for a dodgy Samurai , and I was dissapointed , infuriated , when I saw people without that pointless expensive piece of paper crossing the borders exactly the same way as I did with my "carnet"

Never again .

From a money point of view It makes even less sense


even without thinking on the indemnity ... 200UKP is more than enough to buy passavants , lazze passe for all the route to Capetown ,

Basicly , if you weight the pros

("quicker entry trhought customs" )
("not to pay lassepasse (<5UKP per country )

and that is ... against the cons

risking astronomical ammounts of cash if you lose the carnet
hassle to get it done , bank procedures , fees
the cost of the carnet itself
being vulnerable to extorsion from bad cops taking the carnet
being constantly worried about the whereabouts of the carnet


in my oppinion the choice is clear.

but I insist :you can Use the carnet in All Africa -if you want-. BUT YOU CAN CROSS THE SAME COUNTRIES WITHOUT IT for far less money than the cost of the carnet . so the list on the top , is grossly grossly wrong .

do you know how many people are automaticly turned off to do a trans-african when they just learn about the cost of the carnet (>5000UKP for a decent Defender/LC) ?

if anyone wants to spend all this cash , and donate the money to the Swiss RAC , their local Banks , that´s ok ... but at least we should be clear that you can do exactly the same without a carnet.

have a nice day

Javier


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