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Okay, looks like this discussion re carnets in Africa will go-on
has anyone managed to get into any of the following countries with a 4x4 without a carnet?
The carte grise / passavant / laissez passer that gets mentioned here - I seem to remember this only applies to Francophone African countries - is this true, or would it help me in any of the above countries?
Traveled through every country in Central and South America except Uruguay. NO CARNET NEEDED.
Year was 2005-6.
1983 BMW R80ST.
40K miles in all.
Visas gotten at border if necessary.
Longest border crossing was 2 hours.
I do not speak Spanish.
I used locals at each border to help me through in /central America. Cost me $5 USD plus usual fees.
S. America was easy, no bribes. Customs very helpful.
Sometimes insurance was needed. Never more than $25 USD. Available at the borders.
You need a driver's license from your country of origin and the title for the bike and a passport.
Nothing else is needed. Just go.
Never speak Spanish in a police stop-slow down, smile, wave and play dumb.
Refuse to pay a bribe. I carried cigars. They make great presents!!
It was all very easy and very fun.
risking astronomical ammounts of cash if you lose the carnet
hassle to get it done , bank procedures , fees
the cost of the carnet itself
being vulnerable to extorsion from bad cops taking the carnet
being constantly worried about the whereabouts of the carnet
It's no big deal if the carnet gets lost. A duplicate doesn’t cost much and in most countries it’s far easier to organize a new carnet then a new passport.
I have seen people been refused entry to Kenya without one. But if you think a few days organizing back home is better then the hassle you will have in Egypt without a carnet then I wish you good luck. I met both a biker and a couple in a car that had to turn around south from Aswan.
>>A duplicate doesn’t cost much and in most countries it’s far easier to organize >>a new carnet then a new passport.
A duplicate ? you mean a photocopy ? -but you still need to carry the ultraexpensive original with you - !!!
or a real duplicate -i.e. being issued 2 carnets and leaving one at home- This would go against the very concept of the carnet .Wouldnt it ?
The real risk of the carnet is losing it . If you lose it -you will NEVER - recover your indemnity . I reckon that that money for a biker is ok(a bike can be valued around 2000- 3000 Euros at most ) . But for those people driving a new Land Cruiser ? losing the carnet (or getting it stolen , or defaced , burnt ) means losing 20.000 - 30.000 Euros .
Regarding Egypt .. yep . you can enter without it -but need to leave around 2000 Euros deposit to "be given back to you upon exit of the country" (?) .
This is probbably the only african Country for which a carnet makes sense .
Maybe also Kenya -althought most people enter without it -
First off all the deposit for my bike was almost 10.000 Euro, for a new 1200GS it will be around 25.000 Euro – life is hard here in the north:-(
Okay, her we go:
1) You loose your carnet
2) Get in touch with the people that issued your carnet and explain what happened
3) They send you a new carnet (duplicate)
4) Carry on with your trip
5) Back home return Carnet and get deposit back
Anyway, as long as you bring the vehicle back to where you get the carnet issued you will get your money back!
A friend of mine reported his Carnet stolen because he wanted it as a souvenir when the trip was finished, no problems.
[QUOTE=javierCarrion;127578Regarding Egypt .. yep . you can enter without it -but need to leave around 2000 Euros deposit to "be given back to you upon exit of the country" (?) .
This is probbably the only african Country for which a carnet makes sense .
Maybe also Kenya -althought most people enter without it -
....and maybe it helps in Chad, and maybe......... :-)
The real risk of the carnet is losing it . If you lose it -you will NEVER - recover your indemnity .
So you and your vehicle return home. The carnet that guarantees that the vehicle won't stay in foreign places cannot be completed? Is that what you (Javier) are saying .. I call BS! You can loose/have stolen a carnet AND get your money back .. if you have not left the vehicle where it should not be AND can prove it. It simply adds more paper work .. but it can be done.
well , my point is not that you can use the carnet in Africa . OBviously you can use it , probably in Europe aswell . My point is that you can cross Africa exactly the same , without a carnet.
A carnet cost 200UKP ,but you need to upfront a indemnity of the value of your vehicle . If you lose -either the vehicle or the carnet or both- , damage it or have it stolen , you lose your total indemnity , which depending on your vehicle can be from 1000 UKP to 20-30K for newer 4wd or 100K for a good 4x4 truck.
Does IT really compensate ? I think no way .
NOT quite true.
In the event of loss of the vehicle via fire or accident, you need to get a local police report, and work with local customs to get the carnet stamped out. The police report is supposed to be (and from all reports I have is) sufficient. (In reality there may be some greasing of palms required, depending on the country, but there is no reason to lose the entire carnet indemnity). If the vehicle is stolen, same procedure, but it may be harder to prove a loss, so be careful and report it immediately.
If you lose the carnet, contact your carnet issuer, explain, and they will send you another one. Then all you have to do is EXIT the country and get an EXIT stamp in the carnet to prove you LEFT it. A police report on a theft of your goods would be helpful. If you simply lost it, you deserve the aggro you will get, but it's the same aggro you'd get if you lost a passavants or laissez passer. Remember that the whole point of a carnet is proving you LEFT a country with the vehicle. ENTERING the next one WITH the vehicle is also proof you left with it! Final proof is returning home with it and getting it stamped into your own country.
Is it possible to get a carnet once you are already on the road - we are in Ghana?
Yes, as DelBoy mentions it can be done, and Paul (RAC) is indeed very helpful!
BUT it's best to organise it in advance, and activate it when needed. Talk to Paul or whoever is your local person, and get al the paperwork sorted well in advance, before you leave. Then all you have to do is tell them to do it and send you the carnet. Obviously you want to be somewhere you can get it DHL/Fedexed in easily. (DO check with the local DHL/FEDEX office to be sure it's a direct connection from your home country and not passed between carriers.
DO NOT use a FAKE CARNET - unless you want to go to jail. That's not just a minor paperwork problem - it's an attempt to smuggle in a vehicle and will at least get the vehicle confiscated permanently and you will also usually go to jail!
A COPY of the pages of the carnet is a good idea - be sure to copy the pages as you go. They will be very useful to prove to your issuer the correct current status. Of course a copy is no good unless you've uploaded it to your web mail account, as you could lose it at the same time as the carnet!
Carnet is NOT required in ALL the Americas. It CAN make it easier, but not enough to be worth getting unless you already needed it for somewhere else.
Talk to your carnet issuer to get the latest info and so they know who you are! You want them on your side, so the better they know you the better future communications will be.
Australia - with or without works, but you have to plan in advance if without - see the Carnet page, link on left.
This is almost certainly a dumb question, but what do you do when you're planning a 2 year trip that crosses countries that do need a carnet, but then goes through a number that don't? We're looking at a trip (probably not until end-08, by 4x4 b/c with kids) eastward from Paris through to singapore (and yup, we've looked at the hassle for china - looks doable though $$$), then australia, then south/north america, then africa starting in the south and heading north and back "home" to paris. It sounds like there's no question that a carnet is needed for the beginning of the trip (through pakistan/india, etc), and probably for the very end (if we go through egypt) - but what about all the time in the middle? Does the carnet just hang out there even if we aren't using it for the americas (and much of africa)? Am I wrong in my understanding that it isn't "released" until the vehicle arrives back in the issuing country - in our case france?
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