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  #136  
Old 14 Feb 2012
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Hello everyone

I've been trying to catch up with the information on this thread.

Can anyone confirm if this is the current situation for a UK-registered bike currently in Spain and needing a green card, sharp-ish, as i've just realised my UK insurer will only cover me for up to 90 days per trip:

  • MotoTouring don't offer policies to EU-registered bikes
  • To use UCI you really have to apply in person, in Italy
  • Stefan Knopf's prices have rocketed but he still offers green cards
  • ..... errrr, that's it.

Thanks in advance and hope you're all smiling.
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  #137  
Old 15 Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
...Can anyone confirm if this is the current situation for a UK-registered bike currently in Spain and needing a green card... ...Stefan Knopf's prices have rocketed but he still offers green cards...
Mike:

I strongly suspect that the insurance that Knopf sells is exactly the same cover as what MotoTouring and others are selling - in other words, it is insurance cover for motorcycles registered (plated) outside of Europe that are being temporarily operated in Europe.

This whole discussion - all two pages of it - is about obtaining European insurance coverage for motorcycles registered outside of Europe, for example, motorcycles registered in Canada, the USA, Australia, etc. that will be used in Europe for a short period of time. This type of tourist coverage is NOT OFFERED for vehicles that are registered in EC member countries such as the UK.

Your inquiry sounds like a much more straightforward 'domestic insurance inquiry'. It doesn't really fit the context of what is being discussed here. I suggest you contact your existing UK insurance underwriter. It is probable that they will extend your coverage outside of the UK (but within the EC) beyond 90 days if you pay them more money. In the unlikely event that they will not, I am sure that there are many UK based underwriters who routinely offer insurance cover valid for more than 90 days touring in the EC for UK registered motorcycles.

Michael
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  #138  
Old 16 Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
Mike:

I strongly suspect that the insurance that Knopf sells is exactly the same cover as what MotoTouring and others are selling - in other words, it is insurance cover for motorcycles registered (plated) outside of Europe that are being temporarily operated in Europe.

This whole discussion - all two pages of it - is about obtaining European insurance coverage for motorcycles registered outside of Europe, for example, motorcycles registered in Canada, the USA, Australia, etc. that will be used in Europe for a short period of time. This type of tourist coverage is NOT OFFERED for vehicles that are registered in EC member countries such as the UK.

Your inquiry sounds like a much more straightforward 'domestic insurance inquiry'. It doesn't really fit the context of what is being discussed here. I suggest you contact your existing UK insurance underwriter. It is probable that they will extend your coverage outside of the UK (but within the EC) beyond 90 days if you pay them more money. In the unlikely event that they will not, I am sure that there are many UK based underwriters who routinely offer insurance cover valid for more than 90 days touring in the EC for UK registered motorcycles.

Michael
Mike:
+1 to Michael's comment above. (Not to restate the obvious; just to verify
that Michael's comment is more than just his opinion.)

If your bike is registered in the UK, you need to contact/ discuss your insurance cover options outside the UK with your current UK broker/ underwriter, or with other UK brokers.
Knopf (ADAC/ Arisa), MotoTouring (UTI), and similar sources discussed in this thread, are available only to non-EU, non-UK rego'd vehicles.
Good luck.
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  #139  
Old 20 Feb 2012
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Insurance

well I might be BUMPing this post from Obilion, But can any one give a Email contact or website address contact to get this Grren card insurance.
I have tryed Knop tours and i am getting nowhere with them, as it still dosn't cover me for Driving in the UK.
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  #140  
Old 20 Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CourtFisher View Post
Mike:
+1 to Michael's comment above. (Not to restate the obvious; just to verify
that Michael's comment is more than just his opinion.)

If your bike is registered in the UK, you need to contact/ discuss your insurance cover options outside the UK with your current UK broker/ underwriter, or with other UK brokers.
Knopf (ADAC/ Arisa), MotoTouring (UTI), and similar sources discussed in this thread, are available only to non-EU, non-UK rego'd vehicles.
Good luck.
PanEuropean, CourtFisher,

Thanks for your replies.

This issue came up because my UK insurance company won't cover me for a trip outside the UK lasting more than 90 days. I'm in Spain and no insurance company here will offer me full or green card cover either.

Having used Knopf in the past (2 1/2 years' worth of green card cover) I went back and checked. Stefan confirmed that the green card issued by ADAC/ Arisa via Knopf does provide cover for a UK-plated and registered bike.

I might not like the attitude of my UK insurer. I might not like the 150% price hike at Knopf in the last three years. But it appears to offer me the necessary cover that I can't get anywhere else.

I hope this clears matters up for anyone else in the same position. (Or, if you have a UK insurer offering a better deal, please let us all know.)

@warrigal 1
Not sure I can help. Without looking back through the thread: where is you bike registered? Are you in the UK at the moment?
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  #141  
Old 21 Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
PanEuropean, CourtFisher,

Thanks for your replies.

This issue came up because my UK insurance company won't cover me for a trip outside the UK lasting more than 90 days. I'm in Spain and no insurance company here will offer me full or green card cover either.

Having used Knopf in the past (2 1/2 years' worth of green card cover) I went back and checked. Stefan confirmed that the green card issued by ADAC/ Arisa via Knopf does provide cover for a UK-plated and registered bike.

I might not like the attitude of my UK insurer. I might not like the 150% price hike at Knopf in the last three years. But it appears to offer me the necessary cover that I can't get anywhere else.

I hope this clears matters up for anyone else in the same position. (Or, if you have a UK insurer offering a better deal, please let us all know.)

@warrigal 1
Not sure I can help. Without looking back through the thread: where is you bike registered? Are you in the UK at the moment?
Mike,
Thanks for that clarification from Knopf/ Stefan.
Just shows how "curious"/ strange all the fine print can be.
I guess the reason this info--that ADAD/ Arisa will cover UK-rego bikes--does not appear on Knopf's website, Green Card, is that 90% of ADAC Green Card business originates
from vehicles registered outside Europe; so the question of UK-rego cover simply does not come up that often.
Glad you found a solution, and shared this option for other UK-rego riders.
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  #142  
Old 21 Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CourtFisher View Post
Thanks for that clarification from Knopf/ Stefan.
Cheers, CourtFisher. I just want to add that Polly from MotoCamp has just got back to me also to confirm that
"this is regular EU green card and it is available for British bikes too"
which puts my mind further at ease! Worth comparing prices but good to know they both offer this service.

Now to get to work on dragging my UK insurers into the 21st century....
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  #143  
Old 29 Feb 2012
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There are some insurance brokers who specialise in cover for UK registered vehicles in Spain, Portugal etc, and i used one a few years ago whilst i was working on a contract in Southern Spain when my UK insurer came up with the same 90 day nonsense. Third party was of course included for 12 months within the EU, but comprehensive not.
I was covered for a van, but the company i used (www.abbeygateinsurance.com ) will cover cars, bikes, boats, etc, so it might be worth contacting them or similar companies to enquire. The cover that i had included an annual Green Card, so covered me for travel much further afield in Europe had i needed it.
J
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  #144  
Old 29 Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnyoneye View Post
The cover that i had included an annual Green Card, so covered me for travel much further afield in Europe had i needed it.
J
As I understand the situation across Europe, insurance companies based in countries that are members of the EU have to comply with an EU requirement (law?) to provide a minimum of "green card" cover that is valid in any country in the EU, therefore including the UK.
That does not mean that they cannot charge a premium for providing a service, but that is where the customer has to shop around.

There are some other countries that are not yet members of the EU, but want to join, that are signatories to an international agreement (I don't know the name of that) which brings them inside this requirement - this is all part of the politics of trying to join the EU and there are many other examples of how individual countries need to align their national laws etc to comply with the minimum standards of the EU.
For example, the latest country to fall into line with this insurance aspect is Serbia.

The problem with the UK, it seems to me, is that it is an island (obviously) and the majority of vehicle insurance taken out here will never be used abroad, except for the annual two/three week holiday to the continent by families. In addition, it is "comprehensive insurance" a rather strange concept when you think about it which equates to a "I am never in the wrong mentality" by which I mean when I do make mistakes then there is no come-back on me.

That is the market which, logically, the insurance companies and brokers are used to dealing with and that is where they make their money - probably a case of 90% of the profits coming from 97% of the clientel, so providing a service to the minority is basically a PITA.
Nevertheless, this EU requirement applies to all insurance for the green card cover which is 3rd party indemnity basically; that is written on the insurance cover note/certificate and this has been adopted as a means of not having to issue a specific green card. Where the UK insurers let us down is in trying to charge extra for, in their terms, extending this cover beyond the two/three week holiday.
Discussion??
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  #145  
Old 1 Mar 2012
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Dave,
Your comments above are interesting and maybe helpful.
As a non-Brit, with no experience of UK underwriters or brokers, I can't tell
how much of what you say is "fact"/ "data", and how much speculation.

It seems you're saying that all UK vehicle cover underwriters must--by law or EU regulation--include minimally required third party liability only European Green Card cover as part of any policy written on a vehicle that is UK-rego. Is that what you're saying ?

This may--or not--be true. But it seems contrary to what some UK riders on HUBB are reporting as their actual experience with some UK underwriters when they ask for cover going "abroad,"/ crossing the Channel to the Continent, etc.

Maybe you could clarify what you know to be true, and what is speculation.
Thanks.
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  #146  
Old 1 Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CourtFisher View Post
Dave,
Your comments above are interesting and maybe helpful.
As a non-Brit, with no experience of UK underwriters or brokers, I can't tell
how much of what you say is "fact"/ "data", and how much speculation.

It seems you're saying that all UK vehicle cover underwriters must--by law or EU regulation--include minimally required third party liability only European Green Card cover as part of any policy written on a vehicle that is UK-rego. Is that what you're saying ?

This may--or not--be true. But it seems contrary to what some UK riders on HUBB are reporting as their actual experience with some UK underwriters when they ask for cover going "abroad,"/ crossing the Channel to the Continent, etc.

Maybe you could clarify what you know to be true, and what is speculation.
Thanks.
Thanks for asking Courtfisher; there is no speculation on my part except I don't have figures such as the 90/97% bit; if you like, that is speculation.
The trouble is though that the evidence is not available, except to the central databases of the insurance companies who are not going to divulge commercially sensitive figures.

My statements are based on over 40 years of insuring vehicles here in the UK and when living in Europe.
Right now I have 4 vehicle insurances in this household and they all contain the kind of statement on the cover notes that I have explained about the green card aspect. That has been the case for some years.

"It seems you're saying that all UK vehicle cover underwriters must--by law or EU regulation--include minimally required third party liability only European Green Card cover as part of any policy written on a vehicle that is UK-rego. Is that what you're saying ?"-- Yes. The UK is in the EU.

There is another thread here which is ongoing about this subject:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-vehicle-61877
and there is another sticky thread in this forum which deals with UK insurance.

I hope this helps - it is not really complicated, just complex!!!

EDIT: what the UK insurers appear to practice is to insure a vehicle for no more than, say, 90 or 180 days use overseas per annum; I have cover for 365 days per year (oops, this is a leap year, but you get the idea); I have no doubt that I am paying an increased premium for this, but a lot of insurers don't provide this level of cover unless the insuree asks.

EDIT 2: Just got my insurance docs, and they confirm that I pay an additional £19 per annum for the unlimited use overseas.

EDIT 3: On the face of it, my new cover (I changed the whole insurance policy this time around but staying with the same company) appears to extend comprehensive cover to the other countries outside of the UK - I am not sure because I can't be bothered to read the really small print (because I don't really believe in the comprehensive insurance concept, but my wife does ;-)
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Last edited by Walkabout; 1 Mar 2012 at 13:33.
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  #147  
Old 2 Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Thanks for asking Courtfisher;
....SNIP
There is another thread here which is ongoing about this subject:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-vehicle-61877
and there is another sticky thread in this forum which deals with UK insurance.

I hope this helps - it is not really complicated, just complex!!!

EDIT: what the UK insurers appear to practice is to insure a vehicle for no more than, say, 90 or 180 days use overseas per annum; I have cover for 365 days per year (oops, this is a leap year, but you get the idea); I have no doubt that I am paying an increased premium for this, but a lot of insurers don't provide this level of cover unless the insuree asks.
....
;-)
Dave,
Thank You. The EU regs + UK insurer practice are now mostly clear--to me.
(A bit of digression from this thread...I reviewed (your) other linked HUBB thread.
That has to be among the funniest I've read on HUBB in several years.
I hope the OZzie bloke solves his problem; he should at least take St.Rory, you and a number of others to dinner if he ever makes it over.)
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  #148  
Old 2 Mar 2012
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another user who thinks its OK to Demean a another HUBB user online.

YOU have NO right to do that.
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  #149  
Old 3 Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrigal 1 View Post
another user who thinks its OK to Demean a another HUBB user online.

YOU have NO right to do that.
Not demeaning at all, or certainly not meant to be demeaning.
The humor was in the extended misunderstanding of something that--as you said--"is not really complicated, just complex!!! " It's not always easy for any "complex" local procedures to be communicated and understood. In the case of that thread, it was funny because it went on for so long.
The dinner suggestion was simply to honor the amount of time/ work that some
HUBB users, including you, put in to help another solve a problem.

Thanks for your help.
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  #150  
Old 3 Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CourtFisher View Post
Dave,
Thank You. The EU regs + UK insurer practice are now mostly clear--to me.
(A bit of digression from this thread...I reviewed (your) other linked HUBB thread.
That has to be among the funniest I've read on HUBB in several years.
I hope the OZzie bloke solves his problem; he should at least take St.Rory, you and a number of others to dinner if he ever makes it over.)
Your welcome: the other thread is now closed down - I hope it survives i.e. doesn't get completely deleted, because it does contain some interesting insights into human mis-understandings and ................ well, things like that.
There is always the other sticky thread in Trip Paperwork about insurance issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CourtFisher View Post
Not demeaning at all, or certainly not meant to be demeaning.
The humor was in the extended misunderstanding of something that--as you said--"is not really complicated, just complex!!! " It's not always easy for any "complex" local procedures to be communicated and understood. In the case of that thread, it was funny because it went on for so long.
The dinner suggestion was simply to honor the amount of time/ work that some
HUBB users, including you, put in to help another solve a problem.

Thanks for your help.
I think you have the two Ws mixed up here!
Warrigal 1 has now posted in here; I wonder how that happened? (Oh yea, I posted a link in there to this thread).
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Here is where you get the cheap european green card insurance - Page 6 - The HUBB This thread Refback 12 May 2010 11:38
getting insurance for riding 'round Europe? - ADVrider This thread Refback 29 May 2009 13:56
Australians done europe?? BIKE INSURANCE!?? - ADVrider This thread Refback 21 May 2009 07:59
Australians done europe?? BIKE INSURANCE!?? - ADVrider This thread Refback 20 May 2009 22:24
Greencard & export from Dubai advice needed - ADVrider This thread Refback 13 May 2009 14:30
Greencard & export from Dubai advice needed - ADVrider This thread Refback 3 Apr 2009 10:44
Registering an Oz bike in UK? - The HUBB This thread Refback 23 Sep 2008 15:30
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