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-   -   HELP ME (USA)! Have just bought US reg'd bike in Argentina! (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/help-me-usa-have-just-60714)

MaxVolt 13 Dec 2011 00:35

HELP ME (USA)! Have just bought US reg'd bike in Argentina!
 
Please help me. Hi I'm Max, 28, from New Zealand, I am currently in Argentina.
After months of searching I finally found an Alaskan registered KLR650 and bought it off an Israeli guy last week who had riden it down from Alaska.

Before he left the country we planned to take the ferry to Uruguay so I could enter on a new Temporary Import paper under my name.
However he did not have time to wait for me to send the papers to a friend in California to transfer title to my name so we visited customs and asked their advice.

We said he was "gifting" me the bike so no money was being transfered.
We said I needed this Temp. Import paper in my name so that I would be able to leave the Argentinian border.
Customs said all I needed to do was go to a lawyer and get a notarization paper, officially stamped etc, explaining that I am the new owner and that I have permission to ride the bike and also leave the country with it.

This sounded great! It only took 3 days in sweaty cross town Buenos Aires traffic to sort it all out, buy a tent and make it to the HU meeting in Viedma!

I also FedEx the Title papers to my friend in California (along with my drivers licence/letter of authorization/photocopy of passport) so she could take them into the DMV, prepare the new Title in my name and FedEx them back to me in Argentina (she had previously called DMV to ask if it was possible - they said yes on the phone).

Then I figured with 1) the Title in my name, 2) a Notarized letter confirming me the owner (in place of the previous owners name on the Temp. Import) and 3) my Argentine and neighboring countries insurance I would be sweet to cross the border out of Argentina get my new Temp Import into Chile then from then on I'd be home free, enjoying my ride of a lifetime.

Well, talking with Javier from Dakar Motos at this weekend's HU meeting, he wasn't convinced the Notarization would necessarily fly with the customs officers at the border so he suggested finding the smallest most isolated (hopefully without a computer) border crossing and hope for the best.

So this was the plan, stressing me out over the weekend with thoughts of having my bike confiscated buy customs if it didn't work, after months of pain trying to get it in the first place. That was until I found out today that DMV California won't issue new Title papers in my name without seeing the bike to confirm the VIN!

So what I really need to solve ASAP is this title in my name.
Does ANYONE have advice/solution to this????
Either advice about being able to change bike title in another state without the bike being there so that I can try that, or any other helpful solutions???
At this stage it looks like I will lose my new travelling buddies as they continue on to Ushuaia, and I will be stuck, unable to cross the border, lonely and depressed for Christmas.

Please any help as soon as possible, and I will have beers ready for delivery.

Max:frown:

garrydymond 13 Dec 2011 01:55

Check this site TravellingStrom's Blog he details how he changed ownership of his bike to someone else when he sold it Argentina. i know his bike was registered originally in California. I don't know what happened after the new owner, from the states, bought it but never heard any bad news.
I hope this helps.

John Downs 13 Dec 2011 03:28

Hi Max,

Alas, there is no easy solution to your problem. At least no legal solution to your problem. All U.S. states that I have registered bikes in require the bike to be present to physically check that the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) matchs the title.

No reason you can't enjoy Argentina to the fullest until the TVIP expires. It sounds like you have written permission from the previous owner. The only people I know who have successfully transferred title to a U.S. bike in your area did so by illegal means or by traveling to Paraguay. Both of these options are likely out of the question for you. Others may have suggestions that don't involve duplicate passports and Photoshop.

You hear about people buying travelers U.S. bikes in South America, so there is a common misconception that it is possible to do legally. I think it would be nice if you report back on your experiences, if for no other reason than as a cautionary tale to travellers who follow in your footsteps.

Best luck,
John Downs

markharf 13 Dec 2011 05:11

If what you need is a title in your name, the answer is Photoshop. Resistance is futile.

I got a PM from your riding companion. I've got nothing more for you than the above suggestion, but you can learn everything you need about registration requirements in each of the 50 states by Googling them one at a time. You might also do a search on the HUBB for past threads addressing the usual issues--like which states are more lenient, which are impossible to work with.

Me, I would not have let the seller out of my sight until I'd imported the bike in my own name. You can always send a title off to the other side of the world later on, but you don't want to put your money down without receiving the merchandise as promised.

FWIW, I seem to recall that TravelingStrom's buyer had some sort of trouble legalizing the bike, sooner or later. Maybe I got this part wrong.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

peter-denmark 13 Dec 2011 17:00

I agree that Photoshop is the solution.

Just make up a title for the bike and colorprint it on both sides. Then laminate it.

You can never go to the states with the bike, but all of central and south america is no problem at all.

The really dont know what to look for and they loooovvvveee laminated paper :thumbup1:

You won't be able to obtain insurance in many of the countries anyways.

I only showed a colorscan of my title at all border crossings (hiding the real one in a secret place) and no one even lifted an eyebrow.

Just get riding and don't worry!

bigalsmith101 13 Dec 2011 19:46

I transferred ownership of my bike
 
On December 3rd, in Buenos Aires, going via the ferry to Uruguay, and using a photo-shopped copy of my original title showing the new owners name instead. When peter-denmark says he only showed a color copy of his title, I believe him as I did the same for 11 of 13 border crossings.

We had no issues. When I replied to your cry for help with title agencies last time, and told you to email me with any questions, I wasn't joking.

As for now, if you are in dire need of a US registered title, and are unwilling to photoshop your own creation, it IS possible to create a legitimate title in Washington State for a motorcycle, and I can help you with this.

I did this for an Israeli guy who bought his KLR in Colombia and is now in LAS VEGAS, proving that his title reached his hands, and he entered the US legally, on a valid title.

AND I DID I FROM OUTSIDE THE USA.

So, email me at bigalsmith101(at)gmail(dot)com

or skype call me at 425-903-2632

I CAN solve your problem at my local department of licensing and get a new title for you. The only issue being that you will have to wait about a month for the new title.

SO. GET A HOLD OF ME.

--Alex

markharf 13 Dec 2011 20:35

Alex, when I moved to Washington from elsewhere I had to let the State Patrol verify the VIN number on my truck before the state would issue a title. Is that no longer done? Or is there an alternate path? It would definitely make things easier for a lot of overlanders.

Transferring ownership of a vehicle already registered in Washington doesn't require an inspection.

Mark

bigalsmith101 13 Dec 2011 21:16

Well, you raise a good point, as the bike that I registered for the Israeli guy had been previously registered in Washington State. So, I'll have to go up to the local licensing agent 2 miles up the road and ask a few questions this afternoon. I can't tell you for certain whether or not I'll have to show anyone a VIN number.

I'll update when I know.

--Alex

Quote:

Alex, when I moved to Washington from elsewhere I had to let the State Patrol verify the VIN number on my truck before the state would issue a title. Is that no longer done? Or is there an alternate path? It would definitely make things easier for a lot of overlanders.

Transferring ownership of a vehicle already registered in Washington doesn't require an inspection. Mark

xfiltrate 13 Dec 2011 23:49

Transfer of U S title in Argentina -
 
MaxVolt, thank you for sharing. Over the years I have weighted in, perhaps too strongly at times, regarding Argentine Temporary Vehicle Import Permits. These permits are available for up to 8 months for foreign tourists temporarily importing foreign registered motorcycles.

About 2 years ago I researched the DMV or DOT web sites for all 50 States of the United States, only California, at that time, permitted transfer of title without having the vehicle/motorcycle present. Apparently, as I cautioned on the HUBB, Homeland Security was tightening U S vehicle registration procedures and according to your post, California too has bent to the mandates of Homeland Security,

I posted my results on various HUBB threads much to the dismay of many, and was attacked by some. I have vowed not to get involved with any form of title transfers for foreign registered bikes in Argentina.

Here is a POSSIBLE legal solution that might enable you to legally maintain the motorcycle in Argentina for a full 8 months, and ride it, with you listed on the TVIP as additional rider. Have the legal owner visit an Argentine Consul in his country and explain that he had to return home without his motorcycle, and left his motorcycle in your care, but needs to extend the TVIP, with you as additional rider, until he can return to Argentina. He might even float the idea that, if possible he would like you to be able to ride the bike out of Argentina, as it is very difficult for him to return and ride it out himself. I have found Argentines, especially those in the diplomatic corps to be intelligent and logical and well let me say it, very helpful to tourists.

It is possible for an Argentine Consul, with proper documentation, such as emergency/illness etc., to "convince" (send a diplomatic communique) Argentine customs to extend an existing TVIP, if the owner presents himself at an Argentine Consul with good reason as to why he left Argentina without his motorcycle.

I know of one case that an Argentine TVIP was extended by an owner at the Argentine Consul in his country, while his motorcycle was stored in Argentina.

Be sure and keep the bike insured in the owner's name as he and you, as the rider, will be held responsible in the event of an accident resulting in personal injury or significant property damage. Remember, without valid insurance you risk jail time until a judge sorts everything out and restitution is paid if warranted. You, or the owner by credit card should be able to extend the insurance coverage.

Watch out for sting operations as conspiracy to commit fraud can be an offense/ problem too.

While I respect those with experiences to the contrary, I would not attempt to alter any legal documents. It might be best to have the owner of the bike return your money and take responsibility for his motorcycle.

I am so sorry to hear of your problem and sincerely wish that you find a way out.

i am currently in Europe, but will return to Argentina next year,if you have any questions please contact me. I would like to hear from others regarding my ideas.

An after thought EDIT: You might explore the possibility of being added as a co-owner of the bike on the Alaska TITLE/registration???

xfiltrate

motoreiter 14 Dec 2011 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfiltrate (Post 359360)
About 2 years ago I researched the DMV or DOT web sites for all 50 States of the United States, only California, at that time, permitted transfer of title without having the vehicle/motorcycle present.

Well I'm not sure about all fifty states, but as of that time Washington, DC would issue a "title-only" title (ie, title without registration) without the bike being in Washington. The title has been all I have needed in travelling overseas so far.

markharf 14 Dec 2011 07:41

Uh oh: let's not awaken the sleeping giant.

Motoreiter, did you transfer ownership from somewhere else while getting a title in Washington D.C.? That might be worth knowing. You say the bike didn't need to be in Washington; did you need to be in Washington? Could someone else have done it for you?

I'm not sure about the distinction between title and registration you're referring to. I needed my registration for 98% of my Latin American border crossings, my title for just one (although others have reported differently). If I'd been carrying a title without registration, I'd have been dead in the water.

In fact, this makes me wonder about the OP's report. Why did he need a new title in the first place? He (with the seller) could have cleared the TIP with just a photoshopped registration and worried about the title at some other time.

Idle chit chat on my part. Good luck to the OP

xfiltrate 14 Dec 2011 15:30

Washington DC is not a State
 
MOTOREITER , The United States is composed of 50 States, Washinton DC is not a State. Washington DC is the Capitol of the United States of America.

In my original research I only investigated the 50 States, not the Capitol.

Wahington DC may or may not allow titling and registration without vehicle inspection or verification of vin #. I do know, based on new regulations that the new owner must be a resident of Washington DC or have a real Washington DC address, and, insurance is mandatory.

What I do not know are the regulations for adding a co-owner to an Alaskan title. This might be worth investigating.

Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate

www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking

motoreiter 14 Dec 2011 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfiltrate (Post 359437)
MOTOREITER , The United States is composed of 50 States, Washinton DC is not a State. Washington DC is the Capitol of the United States of America.

Thanks for this insight. That's why I said in my response: "Well I'm not sure about all fifty states..." mkay? And insurance is not mandatory if it is not registered, because, since it is not registered, it is not supposed to be on the roads in DC, and thus insurance is not necessary.

Markharf: I bought the bike in Germany from a friend who had registered the bike in the Georgia. I tried registering the bike in Georgia, and then in Missouri (where my parents live), and then DC, but in all these places they needed to see the bike to *register* it. But, I was able to get a "title-only" registration from DC by mailing/e-mailing the documents to DMV. I should say that I have a DC drivers license and own a house there, and I don't think a non-DC resident could do this.

I think most US states have different title and registration documents. Title shows ownership, registration shows that the moto has been "registered" (usually taxes paid, inspection done) and has a plate. At least in DC, the title therefore shows the VIN, but has no expiration date and no license number.

This bike is currently outside the US, in Europe, and I have taken it across borders several times, and been stopped within these countries occasionally, with no problems whatsoever (if people ask why there is no license number, I tell them "that is not how DC does it"). I buy local insurance but have never had to make a claim.

xfiltrate 15 Dec 2011 01:20

thanks
 
Motoreiter,
Makes sense that if you are not going to ride the bike, only title it, you would not be obligated to buy insurance, and thanks for the info about District of Colombia, (Washington DC) titling vehicles without verification of vin or inspection.

Operating a legally titled bike in a foreign country without a registration reflecting the license plate that is on the bike, might come in conflict with regulations regarding the legal local purchase of insurance. At least this would represent a significant loop hole for the insurance company in the event an insurance claim was filed.

ride hard,ride free xfiltrate


motoreiter 15 Dec 2011 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by xfiltrate (Post 359492)
Motoreiter,
Operating a legally titled bike in a foreign country without a registration reflecting the license plate that is on the bike, might come in conflict with regulations regarding the legal local purchase of insurance. At least this would represent a significant loop hole for the insurance company in the event an insurance claim was filed.

This is true, although so far I have not had any problem.


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