Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Planning, Trip > Trip Paperwork

Trip Paperwork Covers all documentation, carnets, customs and country requirements, how to deal with insurance etc.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 18
HELP ME (USA)! Have just bought US reg'd bike in Argentina!

Please help me. Hi I'm Max, 28, from New Zealand, I am currently in Argentina.
After months of searching I finally found an Alaskan registered KLR650 and bought it off an Israeli guy last week who had riden it down from Alaska.

Before he left the country we planned to take the ferry to Uruguay so I could enter on a new Temporary Import paper under my name.
However he did not have time to wait for me to send the papers to a friend in California to transfer title to my name so we visited customs and asked their advice.

We said he was "gifting" me the bike so no money was being transfered.
We said I needed this Temp. Import paper in my name so that I would be able to leave the Argentinian border.
Customs said all I needed to do was go to a lawyer and get a notarization paper, officially stamped etc, explaining that I am the new owner and that I have permission to ride the bike and also leave the country with it.

This sounded great! It only took 3 days in sweaty cross town Buenos Aires traffic to sort it all out, buy a tent and make it to the HU meeting in Viedma!

I also FedEx the Title papers to my friend in California (along with my drivers licence/letter of authorization/photocopy of passport) so she could take them into the DMV, prepare the new Title in my name and FedEx them back to me in Argentina (she had previously called DMV to ask if it was possible - they said yes on the phone).

Then I figured with 1) the Title in my name, 2) a Notarized letter confirming me the owner (in place of the previous owners name on the Temp. Import) and 3) my Argentine and neighboring countries insurance I would be sweet to cross the border out of Argentina get my new Temp Import into Chile then from then on I'd be home free, enjoying my ride of a lifetime.

Well, talking with Javier from Dakar Motos at this weekend's HU meeting, he wasn't convinced the Notarization would necessarily fly with the customs officers at the border so he suggested finding the smallest most isolated (hopefully without a computer) border crossing and hope for the best.

So this was the plan, stressing me out over the weekend with thoughts of having my bike confiscated buy customs if it didn't work, after months of pain trying to get it in the first place. That was until I found out today that DMV California won't issue new Title papers in my name without seeing the bike to confirm the VIN!

So what I really need to solve ASAP is this title in my name.
Does ANYONE have advice/solution to this????
Either advice about being able to change bike title in another state without the bike being there so that I can try that, or any other helpful solutions???
At this stage it looks like I will lose my new travelling buddies as they continue on to Ushuaia, and I will be stuck, unable to cross the border, lonely and depressed for Christmas.

Please any help as soon as possible, and I will have s ready for delivery.

Max
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 436
Check this site TravellingStrom's Blog he details how he changed ownership of his bike to someone else when he sold it Argentina. i know his bike was registered originally in California. I don't know what happened after the new owner, from the states, bought it but never heard any bad news.
I hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bassett, Nebraska
Posts: 277
Hi Max,

Alas, there is no easy solution to your problem. At least no legal solution to your problem. All U.S. states that I have registered bikes in require the bike to be present to physically check that the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) matchs the title.

No reason you can't enjoy Argentina to the fullest until the TVIP expires. It sounds like you have written permission from the previous owner. The only people I know who have successfully transferred title to a U.S. bike in your area did so by illegal means or by traveling to Paraguay. Both of these options are likely out of the question for you. Others may have suggestions that don't involve duplicate passports and Photoshop.

You hear about people buying travelers U.S. bikes in South America, so there is a common misconception that it is possible to do legally. I think it would be nice if you report back on your experiences, if for no other reason than as a cautionary tale to travellers who follow in your footsteps.

Best luck,
John Downs
__________________
South America and back on a 250 Super Sherpa Minimalist Adventure http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831076
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 2,012
If what you need is a title in your name, the answer is Photoshop. Resistance is futile.

I got a PM from your riding companion. I've got nothing more for you than the above suggestion, but you can learn everything you need about registration requirements in each of the 50 states by Googling them one at a time. You might also do a search on the HUBB for past threads addressing the usual issues--like which states are more lenient, which are impossible to work with.

Me, I would not have let the seller out of my sight until I'd imported the bike in my own name. You can always send a title off to the other side of the world later on, but you don't want to put your money down without receiving the merchandise as promised.

FWIW, I seem to recall that TravelingStrom's buyer had some sort of trouble legalizing the bike, sooner or later. Maybe I got this part wrong.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denmark - Copenhagen
Posts: 263
I agree that Photoshop is the solution.

Just make up a title for the bike and colorprint it on both sides. Then laminate it.

You can never go to the states with the bike, but all of central and south america is no problem at all.

The really dont know what to look for and they loooovvvveee laminated paper

You won't be able to obtain insurance in many of the countries anyways.

I only showed a colorscan of my title at all border crossings (hiding the real one in a secret place) and no one even lifted an eyebrow.

Just get riding and don't worry!
__________________
Peter Kongsbak
South East Asia, USA, Central and South America and Scandinavia.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Everettt, Washington, USA
Posts: 287
I transferred ownership of my bike

On December 3rd, in Buenos Aires, going via the ferry to Uruguay, and using a photo-shopped copy of my original title showing the new owners name instead. When peter-denmark says he only showed a color copy of his title, I believe him as I did the same for 11 of 13 border crossings.

We had no issues. When I replied to your cry for help with title agencies last time, and told you to email me with any questions, I wasn't joking.

As for now, if you are in dire need of a US registered title, and are unwilling to photoshop your own creation, it IS possible to create a legitimate title in Washington State for a motorcycle, and I can help you with this.

I did this for an Israeli guy who bought his KLR in Colombia and is now in LAS VEGAS, proving that his title reached his hands, and he entered the US legally, on a valid title.

AND I DID I FROM OUTSIDE THE USA.

So, email me at bigalsmith101(at)gmail(dot)com

or skype call me at 425-903-2632

I CAN solve your problem at my local department of licensing and get a new title for you. The only issue being that you will have to wait about a month for the new title.

SO. GET A HOLD OF ME.

--Alex
__________________
NJ, NR, NBTTN
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 2,012
Alex, when I moved to Washington from elsewhere I had to let the State Patrol verify the VIN number on my truck before the state would issue a title. Is that no longer done? Or is there an alternate path? It would definitely make things easier for a lot of overlanders.

Transferring ownership of a vehicle already registered in Washington doesn't require an inspection.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Everettt, Washington, USA
Posts: 287
Well, you raise a good point, as the bike that I registered for the Israeli guy had been previously registered in Washington State. So, I'll have to go up to the local licensing agent 2 miles up the road and ask a few questions this afternoon. I can't tell you for certain whether or not I'll have to show anyone a VIN number.

I'll update when I know.

--Alex

Quote:
Alex, when I moved to Washington from elsewhere I had to let the State Patrol verify the VIN number on my truck before the state would issue a title. Is that no longer done? Or is there an alternate path? It would definitely make things easier for a lot of overlanders.

Transferring ownership of a vehicle already registered in Washington doesn't require an inspection. Mark
__________________
NJ, NR, NBTTN
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13 Dec 2011
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 666
Transfer of U S title in Argentina -

MaxVolt, thank you for sharing. Over the years I have weighted in, perhaps too strongly at times, regarding Argentine Temporary Vehicle Import Permits. These permits are available for up to 8 months for foreign tourists temporarily importing foreign registered motorcycles.

About 2 years ago I researched the DMV or DOT web sites for all 50 States of the United States, only California, at that time, permitted transfer of title without having the vehicle/motorcycle present. Apparently, as I cautioned on the HUBB, Homeland Security was tightening U S vehicle registration procedures and according to your post, California too has bent to the mandates of Homeland Security,

I posted my results on various HUBB threads much to the dismay of many, and was attacked by some. I have vowed not to get involved with any form of title transfers for foreign registered bikes in Argentina.

Here is a POSSIBLE legal solution that might enable you to legally maintain the motorcycle in Argentina for a full 8 months, and ride it, with you listed on the TVIP as additional rider. Have the legal owner visit an Argentine Consul in his country and explain that he had to return home without his motorcycle, and left his motorcycle in your care, but needs to extend the TVIP, with you as additional rider, until he can return to Argentina. He might even float the idea that, if possible he would like you to be able to ride the bike out of Argentina, as it is very difficult for him to return and ride it out himself. I have found Argentines, especially those in the diplomatic corps to be intelligent and logical and well let me say it, very helpful to tourists.

It is possible for an Argentine Consul, with proper documentation, such as emergency/illness etc., to "convince" (send a diplomatic communique) Argentine customs to extend an existing TVIP, if the owner presents himself at an Argentine Consul with good reason as to why he left Argentina without his motorcycle.

I know of one case that an Argentine TVIP was extended by an owner at the Argentine Consul in his country, while his motorcycle was stored in Argentina.

Be sure and keep the bike insured in the owner's name as he and you, as the rider, will be held responsible in the event of an accident resulting in personal injury or significant property damage. Remember, without valid insurance you risk jail time until a judge sorts everything out and restitution is paid if warranted. You, or the owner by credit card should be able to extend the insurance coverage.

Watch out for sting operations as conspiracy to commit fraud can be an offense/ problem too.

While I respect those with experiences to the contrary, I would not attempt to alter any legal documents. It might be best to have the owner of the bike return your money and take responsibility for his motorcycle.

I am so sorry to hear of your problem and sincerely wish that you find a way out.

i am currently in Europe, but will return to Argentina next year,if you have any questions please contact me. I would like to hear from others regarding my ideas.

An after thought EDIT: You might explore the possibility of being added as a co-owner of the bike on the Alaska TITLE/registration???

xfiltrate
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by xfiltrate View Post
About 2 years ago I researched the DMV or DOT web sites for all 50 States of the United States, only California, at that time, permitted transfer of title without having the vehicle/motorcycle present.
Well I'm not sure about all fifty states, but as of that time Washington, DC would issue a "title-only" title (ie, title without registration) without the bike being in Washington. The title has been all I have needed in travelling overseas so far.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 14 Dec 2011
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: bellingham, WA, USA
Posts: 2,012
Uh oh: let's not awaken the sleeping giant.

Motoreiter, did you transfer ownership from somewhere else while getting a title in Washington D.C.? That might be worth knowing. You say the bike didn't need to be in Washington; did you need to be in Washington? Could someone else have done it for you?

I'm not sure about the distinction between title and registration you're referring to. I needed my registration for 98% of my Latin American border crossings, my title for just one (although others have reported differently). If I'd been carrying a title without registration, I'd have been dead in the water.

In fact, this makes me wonder about the OP's report. Why did he need a new title in the first place? He (with the seller) could have cleared the TIP with just a photoshopped registration and worried about the title at some other time.

Idle chit chat on my part. Good luck to the OP
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14 Dec 2011
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 666
Washington DC is not a State

MOTOREITER , The United States is composed of 50 States, Washinton DC is not a State. Washington DC is the Capitol of the United States of America.

In my original research I only investigated the 50 States, not the Capitol.

Wahington DC may or may not allow titling and registration without vehicle inspection or verification of vin #. I do know, based on new regulations that the new owner must be a resident of Washington DC or have a real Washington DC address, and, insurance is mandatory.

What I do not know are the regulations for adding a co-owner to an Alaskan title. This might be worth investigating.

Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate

www.Xfiltrate.com - Professional Motorcycle Parking
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by xfiltrate View Post
MOTOREITER , The United States is composed of 50 States, Washinton DC is not a State. Washington DC is the Capitol of the United States of America.
Thanks for this insight. That's why I said in my response: "Well I'm not sure about all fifty states..." mkay? And insurance is not mandatory if it is not registered, because, since it is not registered, it is not supposed to be on the roads in DC, and thus insurance is not necessary.

Markharf: I bought the bike in Germany from a friend who had registered the bike in the Georgia. I tried registering the bike in Georgia, and then in Missouri (where my parents live), and then DC, but in all these places they needed to see the bike to *register* it. But, I was able to get a "title-only" registration from DC by mailing/e-mailing the documents to DMV. I should say that I have a DC drivers license and own a house there, and I don't think a non-DC resident could do this.

I think most US states have different title and registration documents. Title shows ownership, registration shows that the moto has been "registered" (usually taxes paid, inspection done) and has a plate. At least in DC, the title therefore shows the VIN, but has no expiration date and no license number.

This bike is currently outside the US, in Europe, and I have taken it across borders several times, and been stopped within these countries occasionally, with no problems whatsoever (if people ask why there is no license number, I tell them "that is not how DC does it"). I buy local insurance but have never had to make a claim.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 15 Dec 2011
Gold Member
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 666
thanks

Motoreiter,
Makes sense that if you are not going to ride the bike, only title it, you would not be obligated to buy insurance, and thanks for the info about District of Colombia, (Washington DC) titling vehicles without verification of vin or inspection.

Operating a legally titled bike in a foreign country without a registration reflecting the license plate that is on the bike, might come in conflict with regulations regarding the legal local purchase of insurance. At least this would represent a significant loop hole for the insurance company in the event an insurance claim was filed.

ride hard,ride free xfiltrate

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 15 Dec 2011
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by xfiltrate View Post
Motoreiter,
Operating a legally titled bike in a foreign country without a registration reflecting the license plate that is on the bike, might come in conflict with regulations regarding the legal local purchase of insurance. At least this would represent a significant loop hole for the insurance company in the event an insurance claim was filed.
This is true, although so far I have not had any problem.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
america, argentina, d.m.v., title, u.s.a.


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Gringo in Colombia Ride4Adventure Ride Tales 13 20 Apr 2012 02:15
WANTED: USA registered bike in Paraguay before March 2012 gordojordo TRAVEL Bikes for Sale / Wanted 6 12 Jan 2012 12:54
Buy a bike and sell in Argentina kjiratsiekoedel South America 9 17 Nov 2011 00:39
200cc Chilean bike for sale in Peru/Northern Chile FatMeercat South America 2 3 Nov 2011 02:04
Khartoum to Ethiopia Birdy Ride Tales 2 26 Oct 2011 21:32

 
 
 

NEW! HU 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar is now available! Get your copy now for some terrific travel inspiration!

HUGE, 11.5 x 16.5 inches, beautifully printed in Germany on top quality stock! Photos are the winning images from over 600 entries in the 9th Annual HU Photo Contest!

Horizons Unlimited 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar.

"The calendar is magnificent!"

"I just wanted to say how much I'm loving the new, larger calendar!"

We share the profit with the winning photographers. YOU could be in the HU Calendar too - enter here!

Next HU Eventscalendar

See all events

 

HU DVD Autumn Special!

Take 40% off Road Heroes Part 1 until October 31 only!

Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries two-up on a Harley); Dr. Greg Frazier (5 times RTW); Tiffany Coates (RTW solo female); and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).

The first in an exciting new series, Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers."Inspiring and hilarious!"

"I loved watching this DVD!"

"Lots of amazing stories and even more amazing photographs, it's great fun and very inspirational."

"Wonderful entertainment!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'HEROES' on your order when you checkout.



Scottoiler automatic chain oilers. The most important accessory for your next motorcycle adventure!


Renedian Adventures


Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!


What turns you on to motorcycle travel?


Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!


New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.


Books & DVDs

amazon

All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.


Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:34.