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Trip Paperwork Covers all documentation, carnets, customs and country requirements, how to deal with insurance etc.
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  #1  
Old 19 Mar 2012
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Carnet de Passages - Certificate of Location

I re-entered the EU with my vehicle some time ago, and had already returned the carnet to the ADAC. I've now been asked to fill in the 'certificate of location' in order to get my deposit back.

I'm based in the UK, and after calls to numerous people in the UK Customs service, one of whom actually knew what he was talking about, though none can tell me where to get the carnet stamped.

How have other people got their certificates of location stamped? At Dover? Was it a big fuss?

The car is off the road at present, though I'm not far from Dover and could easily go down and ask them to do it, it would be quite costly as i will need to tax and insure the vehicle, so I want to be sure before I go down there. I've tried calling them, but all I got was a clueless assistant who recommended I call Harwich, and thus the wild goose chase continued.

There must be somebody in this country who can stamp my carnet?? Can anyone give me some advice???

Thanks

Daniel
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Old 19 Mar 2012
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Daniel, how long ago did you return?

I returned 16 months ago, sent the carnet back to RAC, all fully stamped out of South Africa, and have never had any request for the location certificate.
A few old threads on HUBB said that's how it should work.
My bike re-entered the UK at Gatwick and there are no customs offices there that could have stamped it anyway.

Was your carnet stamped out of the last country?

I did think, if I was asked for the location certificate, I'd just send in the MOT certificate. That might do.
Anyone know?
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Old 19 Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCrankpin View Post
Daniel, how long ago did you return?

I returned 16 months ago, sent the carnet back to RAC, all fully stamped out of South Africa, and have never had any request for the location certificate.
A few old threads on HUBB said that's how it should work.
My bike re-entered the UK at Gatwick and there are no customs offices there that could have stamped it anyway.

Was your carnet stamped out of the last country?

I did think, if I was asked for the location certificate, I'd just send in the MOT certificate. That might do.
Anyone know?
Have you called Paul Gowen at the RAC? If any one is going to know !!!
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  #4  
Old 19 Mar 2012
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Daniel, after your trip, I'm sure you know more about CdPs than most of us (and me), but as McCrankpin said: one stamp entering a State part of the CdP Convention, and one stamp on the carnet when leaving. That means, two stamps per country (always an even number of stamps). UK customs should not stamp anything nor request the RAC anything, so I don't get it, so someone may be telling your something wrong.

A second thought: in case you had left one country without stamping the CdP, that state may request your deposit from RAC (if I once understood right, they have a year to do it), since they would have find the entry slip cut from your CdP, but not the departure slip (they periodically pair entry/exit slips and find missing ones). For them, that would imply that your car remained in their territory: sold or abandoned without having paid import taxes/fulfilled import duties... (or you left and did not stamp). This thread tells about getting the departure stamp on you CdP after fulfilling the import duties in Iran... (this is funny, I just saw you actually answered the thread!!!)

You can show that they are wrong, that your car actually did abandon the country: a) with your carnet with both entry/exit stamps (I guess not your case, or RAC is getting dumb); or b) proving that your car is just plainly elsewhere out of their country. This last one, I am almost sure, not 100%, but almost.

How to work out option b)? I don't know, I'd ask first. But if I had to guess, I'd go this way: take your car to a Notary (or a Notary to your car) to state (give public faith) that the car with chassis nr, engine nr, plate nr is located in X place, all with notarized photos. That would show that the car is out of the territory of the country requesting the deposit and thus no import duties/custome taxes due that give right to ask for your deposit.

I insist, I may be wrong, cannot confirm 100%. Anyway, if things don't got any better with RAC, contact directly the AIT/FIA: Deborah Smith, [dsmith at fia.com], +41-(0)22-544.45.00 (Head of AIT & FIA Customs Affairs). Very friendly and helpful: I had an issue with Swiss TCS and one e-mail from her solved it all inmediately.

Good luck recovering what is yours! (and may I say again, amazing trip!)

Esteban

Edit: Read again, hold on, ADAC Germany issued your CdP (German Hilux?)? You returned the CdP or not? (1st vs 2nd paragraph)?
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  #5  
Old 19 Mar 2012
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Hi guys

Thanks for your replies.

The carnet was issued by the ADAC in Germany. The carnet was stamped out of each country correctly, and there are no customs claims.

I spoke to Paul Gowan, and he suggested that the local police may be able to endorse the certificate, or that I might do something like send an MOT certificate. I spoke to the ADAC, and they will accept nothing less than a stamp from a European Customs Agency on the certificate of location. Or I can just wait until December 2013, when according to some, the world will already have ended.

I think I'll try to needle Dover customs again, but there must be someone out there who has had a certificate of location stamped.

Daniel
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Old 19 Mar 2012
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Four years ago, when shipping my bike back by sea from Oz, the AA in Finland categorically refused to free the bond, until I got the certificate of location stamped, which I was able to manage easily at the port, once the shipment had actually arrived.

But it sailed for about 2 months, and I remember thinking, that in a way this was kinda weird, because I had the carnet, and the stamps on its counterfoils clearly proved, that the vehicle HAD been stamped in and out of every carnet country, that it had visited (Australia did not demand the carnet 100% at the time, like they do now, but it was still used there, and that was the last country we visited before shipping out).

I also had a plan to actually ship the bike from Oz to Thailand, to keep it there for some time. It would not have been imported there on the carnet (ok, I might´ve had problems with Thai customs after a while, but that´s another story). Would the AA here have been happy with that, and discharged the carnet - I don´t know, but it appears, that I might have had a tough time with them, so I´m glad that I didn´t do that.

Me, I still do not fully understand, why the vehicle needs to return to your home country (as long as you can prove, that it has not stayed in a carnet country). But at least here this very much seemed to be the case.
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Old 20 Mar 2012
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I think I got it: ADAC actually wants to know where the vehicle is now in order to avoid any slight chance of a country requesting the cash. Sort of "double check", as they don't want your car to "appear" in a country whose entry stamp you actually don't have (nor exit, needless to say).

Conclusion: no matter where you leave the car, obtain a document to prove its location to the CdP issuer.

Have you tried to send them copy of the ferry ticket (if plates are indicated)? A notary statement (with the Hague Apostille for international validity, if they are very picky) should definitely be accepted. GPS tagged photos with date and then notarized? Damn it, buy today's Frankfuter Allgemeine newspaper, put the car next to a London 100 miles sign and take a picture of all to show them the car is now in the UK!

GOD, I am saying nonsense, but this is too stupid: having all the stamps and the car in the UK and not getting the CdP deposit BACK!

PS: Please, call that lady in FIA, she's very helpful and is THE BOSS.
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Old 21 Mar 2012
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The ADAC will not even accept a report from police inspectors who inspect the car and confirm its location. No ferry tickets, photos with newspapers, MOT certificates etc etc etc.

BUT, someone from customs who finally knew what they were talking about called me yesterday in response to an email, and said she will be sending a customs inspector to make a certificate of location. Perfect.

Daniel
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