Carnet de Passage, how they valuate the bike?

[alexpezzi]

Hello all,
I have been browsing through this website for a few months now (great site by the way, lots of info all in one place) and I see a lot of you guys are experienced travellers so I thought I'd ask for advice:
I am planning a trip to southeast Asia that possibly stretches to Australia (trying to touch AU soil by Xmas), I will be travelling solo with my XTZ660 (3YF) 1995 registered in the UK (no offroad adventure, I will stick on roads) and leaving at the beginning of Sept this year.
The question: I checked the RAC website and I understand that in order to travel through Iran, Pakistan, India etc they require a deposit equal to 500 percent of the value of the bike. My question is: how they valuate my 1995 XTZ? Is there an official chart somewhere or can they calculate this from the original receipt I still keep from when I bought my bike? And if so considering I paid £1100 for it I will have to leave behind more than 5K just to leave the country? (not mentioning the other paperwork, of course), I think this is a bit too much.
My other question is: if I were to produce a receipt of £450, will I have to pay "only" £2500??? And how about one for £100? Would they drink this? And if (hypothetically) I got the bike for free – I know this is a bit too much now...???
This is a bit confusing for me and it is one of my major concern because I may not come back with the bike (have someone in AU who may keep it) so I may not be able to return the carnet properly filled in to RAC, I may actually not come back to the UK ever (I am originally from Italy, been living in London for a few years now and I have been feeling like doing this trip and I am not sure whether I will b back to the UK or not – will be leaving my job, flat and everything else, so time-wise I will have total freedom) so I am considering the money spent for the carnet "lost" already and of course, I am trying to minimise this loss, I am about to send the request form for the carnet next week but I don’t know what to expect. Does anyone have any experience on this?
Many thanks in advance.

[Matt Cartney]

Pretty sure as long as you value the bike at a realistic 'going rate' no-one will question it. i.e. the going rate for a scruffy bike of your model, year etc. No-one questioned my rather low valuation of my 2003 XT.

You don't have to leave the full deposit. You can 'insure' the bike. This means you pay a premium to an insurance company who theoretically* cover you in the instance that the bike is stolen or whatever and you are landed with importation taxes, this premium is a lot less than 500% of the bikes value ( from memory mine was about 30% of the bikes value). The downside is you only get 50% of the 'insurance' premium back, so you lose a few hundred quid, depending on the value of you bike (much less than this for your bike I'd imagine. You will get this info. with your Carnet application you get from the RAC.
Of course if you are not re-importing the bike into the country you will lose the whole premium.

Be quick though, my Carnet took three months to process.

Matt

* They won't.

[hook]

Hi Alex, I'm currently operating under my second carnet. From what I gather, different countries and companies do things differently. If possible, speak with more than one outfit. I obtained my carnets from the Canadian Automobile Association. With regard to valuation, a receipt did nothing for me- they didn't even want one. They wanted to know the year/model of my bike and they needed the VIN (vehicle Ident number) and bike registration. They requested 2 photos of the bike as well. Each company will have their own way of assigning your ride a value- this may not be left up to you. I extended my first carnet when I decided to ride through Rwanda, Uganda, Sudan and Egypt- due to the lack of pages in my original carnet. I was also told I needed to put up 800% of my bikes value for Egypt. For whatever reason, I didn't have to increase my deposit for Egypt. Things do vary from company to company. My second carnet was issued in a few days, the first was delayed due to my being on the road. In South Africa a carnet can be obtained in less than 48 hours. It just depends on where you are and who you talk to. Good luck, H.

[alexpezzi]

Thank you for your reply Matt, it has been very helpful, I have downloaded the forms from RAC website, application form, fees etc, apparently they go hand-in-hand with RL Davison&Co Lloyd’s Insurance Company in fact from the same webpage you can get the Davison’s “Carnet Liability Proposal Form” which states “The cost of providing the guarantee is normally 10% (+insurance premium tax) of the indemnity requirement as stated under question 13 on the front of this form”. Question 13 asks: “Amount of indemnity required (as stated by RAC Motoring Services)” so I assume I will have to send the application for the carnet to RAC first, get a quote and then contact these brokers?

So if I got it right:
1) 500percent of the value of the bike: £2500 (I would say the bike is worth £500 just because I couldn’t find a chart or something that shows a quotation of an XTZ ‘95 anywhere on the internet tonight)
2) Carnet straight fee: £150
3) RAC “refundable” deposit: £350 (but refundable “when” exactly?)
4) 10percent of indemnity insurance plus another 5percent

it makes:
£250 for the brokers plus an additional 5% (they apply a minimum charge of £200 by the way)
+£150 carnet
+£350 “refundable”
TOTAL: a bit more than £750 for this Carnet, does it sound right?

Has anybody left with a similar bike? How much the carnet has been quoted? Just to give me an idea...

************

Note for Hook: apparently the only organisation issuing The Carnet in the UK is RAC and the application form asks you for the value of the vehicle, I don’t know whether they will want more info at a later stage... I think I will ask the guy that sold the bike to me to make another receipt for me for £450 and I will send it with the application and see what happens...

[Stephano]

Originally Posted by alexpezzi

3) RAC “refundable” deposit: £350 (but refundable “when” exactly?)

Check with whoever issues your carnet, e.g. the RAC. You might not necessarily have to return the bike to your starting point to reclaim your deposit.

Since the point of the carnet (other than to identify your bike) is to deter you from selling it illegally in countries which have very high government import duties and to guarantee payment of those duties should you do so, it could be enough to have both entry and exit stamps from those specific countries.

For example, if you take a bike from the UAE to the UK, you can recover your deposit by just returning the correctly stamped carnet for countries along the route (normally in this example, stamped both “in” and “out” of Iran).
Stephan

[Matt Cartney]

Hi,

Stephano makes a very good point, your deposit (£350 refundable RAC deposit) and 50% of your insurance premium are refunded on return of your carnet to the RAC (it takes a few weeks to process). As long as you have 'in' and 'out' stamps for all countries requiring a carnet, you should get your refund back even if the bike is not in the UK.

If I remember right the RAC organised my insurance with R.L. Davison for me, I just sent my cheque to them.

Your estimate of the cost sounds about right.

The RAC did not ask me for any verification of the bike's value, they took my word for it.

Matt

[alexpezzi]

Hey!!!
Something strange happened!!! I sent all the paperwork for the carnet in only on Thursday via 1st class and today (Monday) I have found the quotation letter from RAC in my letterbox!!! That was very quick... they may be in need of money as well...
But anyway, I wanted to post a scan of the quotation I have received for every first-time traveller (like me) to view.

Just one point to note: I wasn’t sure how they would valuate my bike so I sent a copy of my receipt for £450 but as you can see from the scan “Following referral to insurers, require minimum vehicle value of £1,000”, too bad...

Now, to balance this promptness, I am sure they will take 6 months to issue the carnet...

-picture is attached (I have darkened the personal info)- I will let you know how long it takes for the carnet to arrive, I hope it won't take 3 months like yours Matt..! Thank you for your help by the way, really grateful!

[Roel van Ulft]

Hi there,

why do you use the RAC (which actually COSTS you money) as there are very friendly people working at the ADAC in Munich (German Automobile Association). We used them (Duth/British couple with English registred Land Rover) and we are on our second carnet with them. They do need the deposit in cash though but you will get it ALL back after your trip when your last page in your carnet is stamped in ANY European Union country.
They issue it there and then for you (which takes 30 minutes) so if you go that way anyway...
Check their website; ADAC - Ihr Partner in allen Fragen rund um die Mobilität. (Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil-Club)
It's all in English as well.

Roel
www.popadd.com/overlandy2006

[alexpezzi]

Hello All,
a quick update just for the statistics, the carnet arrived on Wed the 18th of July via Special Delivery, exactly one month after I sent the cheque, the original request has been sent on the 7th of June.

The cheque is still unclaimed in my account though..... mmm... £1,025.... you know when they say: "Temptation....."

[stuecampbell]

Four of us bought 1999 Dommies for around the £3000 mark each and we did up a dodgy receipt for them all at £100 each.
This worked fine.
Cheap Carnet! Only prob was, we did not need them. No body asked for them except Turkey (After we had bought local insurance).
Im no expert but If I was to do a ride from Uk to Oz again, I would not bother.

[Van Isle]

I had my dealer asses the blue book wholesale value for my bike and sent that in to CAA here in Canada.

But they based their valuation on the "Sanford and Evans Gold Book Value" which was 50% higher ($4000 vs $6200). Argh

Fortunately it doesn't make a big hill of beans for me as my most "expensive" country is only 110% duty. But still, I'd really like to try and sell my beat up '03 650GS for $6,200. CAA hasn't seen all the broken plastics on my bike, nor do they know her history. Alas, they don't care.

Now the battle is to get a letter of credit from my bank......a little tricky because the Bank manager didn't even know what I was talking about.

Mitch

[ianrichards121]

I was speaking the the main carnet chap at the RAC just the other day and he said that if you do not get both the "in & out" stamps done, but you do return the vehicle to the UK, just go down to your local police station and get them to witness that the vehicle has returned and the RAC would be happy with that.

Couldn't be fairer really

Originally Posted by Matt Cartney

Hi,

Stephano makes a very good point, your deposit (£350 refundable RAC deposit) and 50% of your insurance premium are refunded on return of your carnet to the RAC (it takes a few weeks to process). As long as you have 'in' and 'out' stamps for all countries requiring a carnet, you should get your refund back even if the bike is not in the UK.

If I remember right the RAC organised my insurance with R.L. Davison for me, I just sent my cheque to them.

Your estimate of the cost sounds about right.

The RAC did not ask me for any verification of the bike's value, they took my word for it.

Matt