Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Planning, Trip > Trip Paperwork

Trip Paperwork Covers all documentation, carnets, customs and country requirements, how to deal with insurance etc.
Contact Overland Solutions for all your custom modifications and setup for overland travel.

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 Feb 2003
POB/London's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London / IOW
Posts: 508
Blank Carnet HERE!

I found a PDF of the full Carnet des Passages en Douanes. This one is blank, but (I think) is identical to the official document.

The question is, how savvy are the Libyan, Egyptial, Syrian and Jordanian border guards? Am currently discussing cost and insurance position with the RAC here in the UK.

=-=-= ON THE EDGE! =-=-=
My XR650L Pan-Med Expedition Site!

Reply With Quote
Old 19 Feb 2003
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 4
Hello POB, and anyone else reading,

Presumably you are thinking of forging/faking a carnet.

Do you think this will be easy to do convincingly?

What sort of internal checking of carnets goes on in a country? For example, do you recon that anyone in Iran say would be able to check that a carnet apparentlly issued in another country is valid? Would they give them a ring? Or is there an international database of carnet's issued?

What process would a country go through to get money of an auto assoc if you do not have your motorbike when you are leaving a country? How long do they leave it before claiming some money off someone?


Reply With Quote
Old 19 Feb 2003
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 4
Oh, and good work too on posting the pdf of a carnet. I am downloading Acrobat now so I can have a look at it.

Reply With Quote
Old 19 Feb 2003
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 638
elsewhere on this site, you'll find comments suggesting that once one country has accepted the fake, others will follow suit. if that's true, how about faking the first stamp so the other countries accept it because they think its been accepted elsewhere? frankly, I'd rather have a legit doc, but I'm somewhat concerned about the consequential cost of losing the bike legitimately. ie the carnet is then cashed in and I'm skint!
Reply With Quote
Old 20 Feb 2003
POB/London's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London / IOW
Posts: 508
The PDF looks pretty good to me, but I'm with Rich on this one. What are the consequences of having a fake carnet and getting busted in, say, Libya? Although if I'm going to crash / lose / sell the bike somewhere I'd much rather have the fake. Same goes for it being stolen.

For my £1200 XT600 3AJ (at least that's what I'm claiming it's worth!) I was told yesterday that I'm looking at a £300 insurance premium + costs of arounf £75 from the RAC. They've been very helpful.

The breakdown is:

Import duty @ 500% (Egypt) = £6000
Insurance Premium of 10% = £600
50% reimbursement on return = -£300
Sundries and admin = ~£100 ish.

The RAC are referring all Middle Eastern travellers to their insurers at the moment, so don't expect this price to hold if war breaks out! The above was based on single bike + rider travelling through E.Europe to Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, and Tunisia.

HTH - who was the contact for the fake carnets discussed elsewhere? Whoever you are, could you email me please? And does anyone have a real carnet in London that I could look at? (Is it watermarked special paper, for example?)

In the scale of my trip costs, 300 notes doesn't seem like a lot to pay for peace of mind....

=-=-= ON THE EDGE! =-=-=
My XR650L Pan-Med Expedition Site!

Reply With Quote
Old 22 Feb 2003
Susan Johnson's Avatar
Veteran HUBBer
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 710
Hi POB/London and Rich

You can't just print the PDF on any old paper, it has to be on special paper, it is watermarked, and there are special stamps.

Definitely have a look at these two threads, they are very informative!

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000422.html about 'dodgy carnets'.

AND http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb...ML/000451.html
for some discussion on the risks:

From Sam Rutherford:
<font face="" size="2">"Essentially, Mr Carnet is a Brit traveller who with a bit of nouse has tracked down software/printing inks/special paper (with the perforations etc.) and put the whole lot together."</font>
From Kevin:
"In most West African countries POSSESSION of a carnet is illegal, whether it is used or not. People found with one are treated the same as if they have forged cash or passports.

African customs officials are not as thick as some people seem to make out. Several people are caught every year, I know first hand of four cases of people being caught and what happened to them. I have heard several second hand accounts but dont know how reliable they are. The penalties involve confiscation of the car, big fines and in at least two first hand accounts the people were imprisoned. I know of one person who was caught in the interior of Guinea Conakryby a policeman at a village checkpoint and they coughed up 7,000 dollars in bribes before being let go.

I know of four other places in Europe where a forged carnet is available and none of them as of yet have managed to produce a carnet with a watermark which is where most people are caught out."
Kevin later clarified he is referring to possession of a FORGED carnet being illegal, not possession of a legitimate carnet.

'Mr. Carnet' was asking £300 for the 'dodgy carnet' at last report, so in your case, perhaps not any cheaper than the legit one!

Susan Johnson

Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997
Reply With Quote
Old 22 Feb 2003
Contributing Member
Veteran HUBBer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 288
Hello Lewis,
I received my Carnet from RAC this week.
I put the value of my bike in as £800 (1988 3AJ). My bike no longer has a book value, the 1989 Tenere has a book value of £800 with the AA. So you could probably get away with less for your 1VJ.
Here is the breakdown of my Carnet costs:
25 page carnet (incl Egypt) £90
RL Davison Insurance Premium (50% refundable)
Insurance premium tax £20
Refundable cash deposit £250

Total £760
Actual cost after refunds: £310

You are welcome to have a look at my Carnet, although you would have to get yourself to WImbledon before the 2nd March, when I leave.

BTW, thanks for recommending X-bikes, Chris did a good job on my engine.


[This message has been edited by Geoff van de Merwe (edited 22 February 2003).]
Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


NEW! HU 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar is now available! Get your copy now for some terrific travel inspiration!

HUGE, 11.5 x 16.5 inches, beautifully printed in Germany on top quality stock! Photos are the winning images from over 600 entries in the 9th Annual HU Photo Contest!

Horizons Unlimited 2015 Motorcycle Adventure Travel Calendar.

"The calendar is magnificent!"

"I just wanted to say how much I'm loving the new, larger calendar!"

We share the profit with the winning photographers. YOU could be in the HU Calendar too - enter here!

HU DVD Autumn Special!

Take 40% off Road Heroes Part 1 until October 31 only!

Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers Peter and Kay Forwood (193 countries two-up on a Harley); Dr. Greg Frazier (5 times RTW); Tiffany Coates (RTW solo female); and Rene Cormier (University of Gravel Roads).

The first in an exciting new series, Road Heroes features tales of adventure, joy and sheer terror by veteran travellers."Inspiring and hilarious!"

"I loved watching this DVD!"

"Lots of amazing stories and even more amazing photographs, it's great fun and very inspirational."

"Wonderful entertainment!"

Check it out at the HU Store! Remember to use Coupon Code 'HEROES' on your order when you checkout.

Renedian Adventures

Renedian Adventures

What others say about HU...

"I just wanted to say thanks for doing this and sharing so much with the rest of us." Dave, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the DVD series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring! The new look of the website is very impressive, updated and catchy. Thank you so very much!" Jennifer, Canada

"...Great site. Keep up the good work." Murray and Carmen, Australia

"We just finished a 7 month 22,000+ mile scouting trip from Alaska to the bottom of Chile and I can't tell you how many times we referred to your site for help. From how to adjust your valves, to where to stay in the back country of Peru. Horizons Unlimited was a key player in our success. Motorcycle enthusiasts from around the world are in debt to your services." Alaska Riders

contest pic

10th Annual HU Travellers Photo Contest is on now! This is an opportunity for YOU to show us your best photos and win prizes!

NEW! HU 2014 Adventure Travel T-shirts! are now available in several colors! Be the first kid on your block to have them! New lower prices on synths!

HU 2014 T-shirts now in!

Check out the new Gildan Performance cotton-feel t-shirt - 100% poly, feels like soft cotton!

What turns you on to motorcycle travel?

Global Rescue, WORLDwide evacuation services for EVERYONE

Global Rescue is the premier provider of medical, security and evacuation services worldwide and is the only company that will come to you, wherever you are, and evacuate you to your home hospital of choice. Additionally, Global Rescue places no restrictions on country of citizenship - all nationalities are eligible to sign-up!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80 G/S motorcycle.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events (22 this year!); we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, the HUBB or to receive the e-zine. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.

Books & DVDs


All the best travel books and videos listed and often reviewed on HU's famous Books page. Check it out and get great travel books from all over the world.

Motorcycle Express for shipping and insurance!

Motorcycle Express

MC Air Shipping, (uncrated) USA / Canada / Europe and other areas. Be sure to say "Horizons Unlimited" to get your $25 discount on Shipping!
Insurance - see: For foreigners traveling in US and Canada and for Americans and Canadians traveling in other countries, then mail it to MC Express and get your HU $15 discount!

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:30.