Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB

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-   -   American applying for Carnet...the damage (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/american-applying-for-carnet-damage-38098)

Farfetch 29 Sep 2008 22:26

American applying for Carnet...the damage
 
Just in case anyone is interested here's the damage for a carnet from CAA
(prepping for an RTW tour)
Bike: 2004 BMW R1150 GSA
quote from 25SEP08


Carnet de Passages en Douane - Cost Calculator Email

The following is an estimated cost of your guarantee. Please note that final costs will be determined by CAA after a complete review of the application.
Indemnity Option

(Highest Priced Country for this Option: Egypt)
CAA Fees
$550.00
Indemnity Option Fee (incl taxes)
$8,118.40
Total
$8,668.40
Returned on Discharge
$3,917.13
Net Cost
$4,751.27





Guarantee Option

(Highest Priced Country for this Option: Iran)
CAA Fees
$550.00
GuaranteeRequired
$21,500.00
EstimatedBank Fees
$2,000.00
Total
$24,050.00
Returnedon Discharge
$21,500.00
Net Cost
$2,550.00









Fronting 24k is a bit steep.
Looks like I'll be losing $4,751 over this carnet:thumbdown:,... pretty frustrating, someone is making out for sure on this. Anyone know of any finance options on this? It may be cheaper to take loan, front the money, and just pay the interest. Anyone know any tricks on this? aside from the obvious - dont go to Iran/ Egypt, swap for a moped

MountainMan 30 Sep 2008 02:52

Farfetch,

The fees seem quite a bit out if line with what I have seen, something seems amiss. There is a lot of discussion on this topic as you know but in general you are simply posting a bond that means that you will be returning the bike back to it's home country and you get the bond back. Why there is a discrepancy between the amount returned on discharge and your original bond is unclear to me, when I dealt with the CAA last year there was no such discrepancy.

If they are actually charging you that much for some reason, and you can't do any better, you are welcome to see if it is possible to transfer my carnet over to you and I'll charge you a big, fat zero. Then you can spend the rest of the money on more important things like gas and beer:)

Farfetch 30 Sep 2008 04:34

Mountain Man


An interesting and gracious concept, I cant imagine a carnet transfer being authorized, but I'll be looking into it. good to be talking with someone else who's applied through the CAA. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions-
-What countries did you apply for?
-what do you ride?
-Are you Canadian or American?

If I fronted 24k, I'd only end up losing the CAA fees of $550. 24k cuts to deeply into my budget, so I'm looking at the other option of the endimity (sp) bond, this is big nasty that gets to keep the dough(but allows me to post only 8 or 9k up front) I checked into the letter of credit with my bank, this involved putting up the full 24k, freezing it in an account, paying a bank fee of $450, on top of the CAA fee of 550. I'm sure wishing the dollar was stronger right now. The letter of credit from the bank seems like the worst idea ever! why pay to freeze your money in an account, when (if you could front the cash) you could just send CAA a cheque.
If you've got an idea or comment, I'm dying to hear it. thanks for your input, your the best lead I've got on information right now


Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainMan (Post 208929)
Farfetch,

The fees seem quite a bit out if line with what I have seen, something seems amiss. There is a lot of discussion on this topic as you know but in general you are simply posting a bond that means that you will be returning the bike back to it's home country and you get the bond back. Why there is a discrepancy between the amount returned on discharge and your original bond is unclear to me, when I dealt with the CAA last year there was no such discrepancy.

If they are actually charging you that much for some reason, and you can't do any better, you are welcome to see if it is possible to transfer my carnet over to you and I'll charge you a big, fat zero. Then you can spend the rest of the money on more important things like gas and beer:)


DaveSmith 30 Sep 2008 12:05

I'm from California and went through CAA to get a carnet for India. This is a very abridged version of the story. Almost every single step was like pulling teeth and have stories among themselves.

Carnet granted with Canadian $5,000 deposit or line of credit. It's good to have an old bike.

My credit union, who I used for 15 years or so, had given me a US$10,000 line of credit years ago. I figured it'd be no big deal to get them to let the CAA know I have a line of credit. They didn't know what a carnet is so they wouldn't. I wasn't allowed to talk to the people making the decision who didn't know what a carnet is. The basic idea was, I was fleeing the country, and how did they know I was coming back. Lots of stalling involved with this decision which put me to dealing with it on the last bank day before I left.

A bit pissed off, I pulled all my money out. I started going to banks with a cashiers check for tens of thousands of dollars, wearing dirty clothes from last minute putting stuff into storage, and asked about a letter of credit having to explain what a carnet was to each person in every single bank. It didn't help that the whole thing was making me laugh since it has SCAM written all over it.

Bike in Australia, registered in California, carnet from Canada, shipping to India. No luck. Too many countries involved for the Aussie government. And it was straining friendships with an Aussie friend who arranging shipping. He's another HU member so he's well versed in shipping paperwork. It became a US$3,000 gamble to get it to India sans paperwork. Then I'd have Indian customs to deal with. My guess is that *probably* would work, but with some baksheesh.

So I finally did what everyone recommended -- which I didn't want to do -- and bought an Enfield. I like them anyway, and it wasn't much more than the carnet application fee.

I'm getting a partial refund back from CAA. The bank I switched to just got sold to Citigroup but I'm covered by FDIC. And better friendship with no Ducati, then Ducati with no friendship.

Good luck.

-Dave

quastdog 30 Sep 2008 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Smith (Post 208995)
. I figured it'd be no big deal to get them to let the CAA know I have a line of credit. They didn't know what a carnet is so they wouldn't. I wasn't allowed to talk to the people making the decision who didn't know what a carnet is.
-Dave

You should have asked your bank for a "letter of credit".

A line of credit is a loan by the bank. A letter of credit is a guarantee from the bank that the money you have on deposit can not be withdrawn without the approval of the CAA.

I created a separate money market savings account with my bank and deposited the required amount for the CAA ($8,900) - the bank issued a letter of credit to the CAA, with the money frozen in the account, drawing interest while I'm out riding.

I paid a few hundred in fees (and have to pay a few hundred more as I renew it for a second year).

Robbert 30 Sep 2008 12:30

Depossit at CAA?
 
Not the CAA, but might work there just as well as here.

I left the money in the issueing organisations account. No bank fees no nothing, only around 200€ for the Carnet. Got the money back on return. I guess they won the interest, but this was a whole lot cheaper then all the 'have the money at the bank' solutions.

DaveSmith 30 Sep 2008 12:30

That was part of the runaround I got from my credit union. "Yes, we can just give you a letter of credit" Sounds perfect, sign me up! Which went back to them not knowing what a carnet was and the possibility of me never returning. Which directly led to me pulling all my money out because it seems so simple.

Farfetch 30 Sep 2008 18:23

Its a real good time trying to explain what a carnet is to a bank! After an hour on the phone with my bank,,... they finaly said,,,,what I needed was a notary...yeah big help,... thank you! Sounds like your situation was tougher, glad you found a way, even if its not your beloved bike. I admit, if I could start all over, I'd have stuck with an old R80 instead of the 04 adventure. Seems like there's now way around massive fees if you have a big bike and cant freeze 24k in a bank. But I can help to think some agency would realize the potential in financing this letter of credit, even at a high interest rate, it would be better than the indemnity bond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Smith (Post 208995)
I'm from California and went through CAA to get a carnet for India. This is a very abridged version of the story. Almost every single step was like pulling teeth and have stories among themselves.

Carnet granted with Canadian $5,000 deposit or line of credit. It's good to have an old bike.

My credit union, who I used for 15 years or so, had given me a US$10,000 line of credit years ago. I figured it'd be no big deal to get them to let the CAA know I have a line of credit. They didn't know what a carnet is so they wouldn't. I wasn't allowed to talk to the people making the decision who didn't know what a carnet is. The basic idea was, I was fleeing the country, and how did they know I was coming back. Lots of stalling involved with this decision which put me to dealing with it on the last bank day before I left.

A bit pissed off, I pulled all my money out. I started going to banks with a cashiers check for tens of thousands of dollars, wearing dirty clothes from last minute putting stuff into storage, and asked about a letter of credit having to explain what a carnet was to each person in every single bank. It didn't help that the whole thing was making me laugh since it has SCAM written all over it.

Bike in Australia, registered in California, carnet from Canada, shipping to India. No luck. Too many countries involved for the Aussie government. And it was straining friendships with an Aussie friend who arranging shipping. He's another HU member so he's well versed in shipping paperwork. It became a US$3,000 gamble to get it to India sans paperwork. Then I'd have Indian customs to deal with. My guess is that *probably* would work, but with some baksheesh.

So I finally did what everyone recommended -- which I didn't want to do -- and bought an Enfield. I like them anyway, and it wasn't much more than the carnet application fee.

I'm getting a partial refund back from CAA. The bank I switched to just got sold to Citigroup but I'm covered by FDIC. And better friendship with no Ducati, then Ducati with no friendship.

Good luck.

-Dave


DaveSmith 30 Sep 2008 18:29

You should ask if your bank could call Suzanne. I tried that one too, but no luck. I would think she's dealt with that question plenty of times.

As long as your bank doesn't think you're fleeing the country, it might work out.

petefromberkeley 1 Oct 2008 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Smith (Post 209069)
You should ask if your bank could call Suzanne. I tried that one too, but no luck. I would think she's dealt with that question plenty of times.

As long as your bank doesn't think you're fleeing the country, it might work out.



The only not frustrating part of this whole mess is Suzanne. I found her to be a pleasure to deal with. She is quite aware of Horizons Unlimited and I think anything we can do as a group to keep a good relationship with her is worthwhile.

Farfetch 1 Oct 2008 02:54

Well said, She's been very professional

Quote:

Originally Posted by petefromberkeley (Post 209125)
The only not frustrating part of this whole mess is Suzanne. I found her to be a pleasure to deal with. She is quite aware of Horizons Unlimited and I think anything we can do as a group to keep a good relationship with her is worthwhile.


DaveSmith 1 Oct 2008 06:08

Oh yes, Suzanne has been great. I couldn't get my credit union to call her.


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