AUS to UK through China or vise versa - 2013
 

Looking for travel partners.

Plan to travel from AUS to Malaysia, Thailand, Laos and into China. Travelling the Silk Road into Kazakhstan, etc. before ending up in UK. I am also prepared to do the trip in reverse if I cannot find starters in AUS and starters exist in UK.

NAVO, the travel guide company, has given me a quote for a solo crossing of China, which is expensive, so I am looking for other travellers to share the cost.

I have a BMW R1200GS.

I want to travel during the northern hemishere spring, summer or autumn next year 2013. It takes at least three months to get Chinese government permissions.

Two years ago I did a solo bike trip from USA through Mexico and Central America to Chile. Keen to get going again but this time with company.

David

David
I'm based in Ireland, so might be interested if you decide to start in UK
How long do you think the trip will take?

Brian

How long will this trip take?
 

I have been trying locally to find other interested travellers so your post gives me encouragement - hope it all works out for us.

My estimation of the travel time is as follows -

Distance alone will not determine how long it will take. Rest days, border crossings, vehicle reliablity, staying injury free, stopping occassionly to smell the roses, etc will all play a part. The distances listed below are all approx. only.

Some European tour companies offer group tours from Moscow to Bangkok or Istanbul to Bangkok. These tours are listed as taking 50 - 60 days. My estimate from UK is approx. 80 days.

Distance UK to Istanbul is approx. 4250 kilometres divided by 300 (distance travelled per day) = 14 days.

Istanbul to Georgia border = 1980 klms divided by 300 = 7 days

Georgia to Chinese border = 4300 klms divided by 300 = 14 days

China time and distance is determined by the guide company we employ. The government determines the route we will take. Different provinces from time to time are no go zones. But I have a quote for 28 days which includes four rest days.

Laos, Thailand and Malaysia will take another 14 days.

There are other routes such as travelling through Iran and Pakistan. Don't mind Iran but Pakistan????

The cost of travelling through China is expensive because we will need to employ an english speaking guide, driver with an escort vehicle.

Open to advise and or alternatives. Please free to comment.

Roughly, how much money would a trip like this cost? I'd be interested be the cost of going through China could really ramp it up.

Sounds good though!

Just a few information to add.
İstanbul Sarp /Georgia bordergate is 1260 km.if you take the black sea coastline road..If you plan to visit must see places,ephesus,pamukkale,cappadocia,mount nemrut,stone road, it will make almost 2940 km..
All questions about route plannings,current inf.,etc. are welcome.
Wish you all the best.

Hello Smokin

Depends on several factors such the type of accommodation we want to use. Europe would be the most expensive leg in that regard. Food and accommodation costs decrease dramatically beyond Turkey.

You mention China as ramping up the cost and you are right. NAVO the Chinese tourist guide company quoted 80,000 Yuan ( UK pounds = 8,000) for an english speaking guide, driver and guide vehicle for a period of 28 days. This includes the documents for the vehicles and licences BUT does not include cost of accommodation, meals, fuel along the route.

Bigger the group the less it will cost each rider. (8,000 divided by 3 = 2,666GBP) This information is wrong. I wrongly assumed that the cost could simply be divided by the number of travellers plus the cost of the extra licences, vehicle tags, insurances, etc. NO that is not the case at all. Today another company contacted me because they found another traveller to accompany me through China. The cost is not halved but I get a small (and I mean small - few hundred dollars) discount. See my last post for details

If we were able to travel with another traveller in a car (in which the guide can travel) we do not need the driver or the guide vehicle and the cost reduces again substantially. Maybe this is not right either

Fuel, visas, etc. etc.

Hello

You sound like a good man for advise on the Turkish leg. As plans solidify can I get back to you for advise?

I have been to Turkey, many years ago, before crossing into Syria - not advisable right now. You have a beautiful country that I would love to see in much detail.

Thank you

More on the cost of this trip. My experience has shown that it is hard to foresee all costs involved - things happen that delay and/or cost extra.

My budget expenses, so far determined, are for things such as getting the Carnet, airfares to or from UK, shipping the bike to or from UK, insurance, allocating a daily amount for fuel, accommodation and meals, the cost of the China leg, cost of the Vietnam leg (need a guide there to), shipping from Singapore to Darwin.

Not much change, if any, out of $15,000 AUD or 10,000 GBP. The big cost is China.

Could be done cheaper but I like a few comforts. The budget could also be much bigger and yet be.

Perhaps you could suggest a route for the trip. I am open to suggestions.

Pm'd you

Message sent?
 

Can't find the message???? Please try again or am I missing something?

China - more information on costs.
 

Today I received email from another Chinese tour company informing me they have found a travel partner for me through China. The travel partner turns out to be a group of two adults and four children travelling in a large vehicle. No details beyond that.

Their charges quote is as follows - 1 X person and 1 X motorbike =
Euro 12,881 ($15,217 AUD) for me travelling alone.

BUT if I am to travel with this other group the charges are -
1 X person and 1 X motorbike
= Euro 9552 ($11,284 AUD)

The cost of importing a vehicle, obtaining a Chinese licence, temporary vehicle registration and insurance must be expensive.

The same amount is being charged to the other group so the total payable to the tour company is 19,104 Euro for guiding the tour for 30 days. This is nothing short of a ripoff (15,016 GBP, 23,590 USD, 22,568 AUD). Especially when it is for a guide only - no vehicle or driver required. T:thumbdown:his does not include visa fees, meals and accommodation for myself, the guide and driver. Along with admission fees, tours, personal expenses and a TIP is expected for the guide at the end????

The whole process is inflexible and expensive. China self-drive travel appears to be beyond the reach of ordinary people and these tour companies appear to be cashing in.

I am now seriously thinking of giving China a miss - go where travellers are welcome.

Hi David , check out the site [url=http://www.overlandwithkids.com]Overland With Kids.com. I was due to travel with them and share the costs. Ann did a lot of research on guides and costs prices varied hugely !!!!!! From memory I was paying less than 3000 gbp for a 30 day transit. If you pm me your email address I will dig out details on guide companies and costs. I am away till Monday, but if you look at their web site there is a breakdowm of costs etc.


regards Jimmy

We have just travelled through XinJing region of China a couple of weeks ago with Newland Travel. They are not cheap but a great company to deal with. The guide/driver were great guys. We travelled 11 days in China and covered a lot of distance. We entered China through the Tekeshenken border in the Altay region, and exited through Touragart Pass to Kyrgyzstan. Both borders are not frequented by foreigners, so there is extra cost / red tapes.

XinJing is an unstable region of China, and we saw police and army carrying machine guns and batten in many towns. While most people were OK, we encounter quite afew unfriendly local Chinese, and a couple of nasty border army and police. I was a bit disappointed with the scenery. Overall, it is not worth the money or hassles. But I am only talking about XinJing region.

If you still want to travel to China, I would suggest you give Newland travel a try. Details as follow:
www.newlandtravel.net
email Mamatjan at newlandtraveller@hotmail.com

Alterantives - China
 

Thanks Jimmy - will have a look. Admit to being a bit annoyed when the quote came in - got over that now. Still looking.

Alternatives - China
 

Thank you will have a look. Got over my annoyance at the costs.

If you give China a miss, due to costs, what new route do you propose?

LDN - Istanbul 2013
 

Gday David,

Im planning a trip in April 2013, from London to Turkey on a bike purchased in London. When are you planning on commencing your trip mate? Sounds like a fairly similar route.

Would be great to compare notes
Cheers
Tom

Hey David

We are currently planning on driving from Aus to the uk next August there are 3 of us and we are having similar problems... What route to take one you get hrough Thiliand? We are actually considering flying the bikes over china and continuing on from Mongolia/Russia as this seems to be the more straightforward route bar the Russian visa but at least ordinary people can afford it. Any ideas on this would be appriciated??

Thanks

Air freight options.
 

Several options but an option I am looking into is air freighting bikes from Bangladesh to Chiang Mai (Thailand) or vise versa.

That option is do-able. There is a post on Horizons Unlimited 'Get Ready' where a traveller gives an example of an actual transfer.

Cheers
PS. Got your private message and sent a response.

Reply to Tom
 

Tom

Hope to do the trip in the northern hemisphere summer/autumn 2013.

Plans are still very much fluid. There appears to many more potential travellers starting out from UK than there is AUS. So at this stage UK to AUS is looking like a better option.

If I ride from UK to AUS I need a Carnet to get a bike back into AUS so will have to freight my bike to UK and ride it back. Cannot buy a bike in UK and get it into AUS unless I have a Personal Import permit for the bike - must have owned it for two years +. Buying a bike in UK is only an option if I do a round trip that starts and ends in UK.

More than happy to ride with you from UK through Turkey is timing works out.
Please keep in touch.

David

Thailand route options
 

G'day

Fantastic to get your post. My planning is still very fluid and as yet I have not committed to any one plan.

The route options through Thailand are limitless. This is probably my one and only shot at this so I want to see as much as I can. My early plan was Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand (heading toward Bangkok then east toward Cambodia), southern Cambodia, Vietnam (Voyage Vietnam Mototours organising vehicle entry permits etc.), Laos and then China, and so forth. China is proving to be expensive and very restrictive so looking other options.

Now I am looking at Chiang Mai ( northern Thailand ) and air freighting the bike to the next destination possibly Bangladesh or India.

My ideal is doing the 'stans', Iran and Turkey perhaps touching southern Russia and even Georgia.

How advanced is your planning and are the three bikes all committed to the trip? Are you looking for other starters?

Have a safe trip.

David

Hi, I went through the same thing two years ago and came to exactly the same conclusion :( Here's some potentially useful info:

* Navo will allow you to carry a pillion guide on the bike, if they can find a willing guide. That will remove the car hire fee.

* I worked with them to find the shortest possible route through China, to keep the cost down. It worked out at 12 days and $5,000 (that was based on the guide using a car). As per your quote, it does not include any of the rider's costs.

I still intend to do this trip. Would love to join you but already got plans for next year.

cheers

Navo
 

Hello

Thank you for the info. Communicated with NAVO staff some time ago. They get numerous and excellent recommendations from travellers who have used them.

Their costs are similiar to other companies. Unfortunately they do not have other travellers going my way at the time I hope to be travelling.

Recent find -

China Chengdu Greatway Tour Company. Contact person Ms. Liu.
info@china-tour.net

They have 2 X adults + 4 X children + 1 X vehicle travelling through Tibet in May, 2013. Offers open to others to join.

Rough route - Mohan, Kunming,Dechen,Lhasa,Tsada and Kashgar.

The more info out there the better informed choice can be made.

Thanks again.

Hello David

I'm interested in UK to OZ. I have relatives in China and OZ and friends in Nepal

Kind Regards
John

Possibly...
 

Hi,

We could be interested if the times match up.

We are starting in Bangkok in May and and expect to be at either the Lao or Vietnamese border in mid July. We are interested in heading up the centre of China and exiting to Mongolia.

Did you have an itinerary in mind?

Cheers
TO

UK to OZ
 

I am in the throes of putting together such a trip for May/June 2012 and looking for a partner.

I you are interested send e-mail address via private message and perhaps we could see if there is a common theme.

Regards jim

Hello;

I will be doing the UK to OZ route through Iran - Pak - India etc etc starting next April (2013) we will be messing around Europe and Turkey till September then enter Iran (if all goes to plan).. I wana travel Turkey quite thoroughly. Will eventually get to S.E. Asia.. you mention Voyage Vietnam..do they arrange entry for big bikes? I was planning on leaving the bike in Laos or Cambodia and backpack Vietnam or hire another bike as entry is not allowed for any bike not registered there first or something or other. If your route plan changes this way round might bump in to you en-route.

Have fun!
Oli

Response to John
 

John

Thank you for your post. Best thing I ever did was join Horizons Unlimited because it has put me in touch with like minded travellers.

To make China cost effective for me there will need to be a large group sharing costs - so your interest is welcome. No decision has been made as yet - still collecting info. and interested parties before deciding route.

As my plans progress we will communicate further.

David

Response to Oli
 

Oli

Fantastic getting your post. Never know our paths may cross.

In answer to your question -

I communicated with Ahn (Voyage Vietnam) via email after reading a blog by an English couple who rode their own bikes in Vietnam. Like many others I believed that large bikes were not permitted in Vietnam BUT this is not the case according to the information I have received. Someone from the company apparently meet you at the border (similar to China) and make all the arrangements to get the bike temporarily into the country. Please make contact with the company and check for yourself - double checking assertions is worth the time and effort.

Let me know of your plans as we get closer to the trip.

David

Response to TO
 

Great getting your post. You mention 'we' - is there a group of you? If I am to do China I need other travellers.

My original plan/itinerary was -
Australia, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and then into China, etc. The three best Chinese guide companies (ChinaOverland, Nova and Chengdu Tours) so far have given me itineraries that involve entering via Mohan and exiting via the Korgas Pass. Essentially it means travelling north to Xian and then turning west.

If starting in UK the opposite would apply obviously.

As previously stated the cost of being guided in China is expensive so I need to be travelling with a large group to make it cost effective for me. See other posts for costs involved.

Let us communicate more as plans solidify.

David

Route choice through China
 

Lot of questions, private and posts, regarding my route through China. Nothing decided as yet but I have attached a link which shows a route for which I has been approved and quoted for by a guide company.


https://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?m...422eab6f&msa=0.

This could be done in either direction.

David

Route choice through Tibet from Laos
 

This route through Tibet is on offer by China-tours. They have a vehicle with six already to go in May, 2013. Have a look at the link.

https://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?m...2121,39.506836

Something to consider.

David

Hi! My name is Andy and I'm also interested in joining you with my bike going north, home to Europe.
I live in Cambodia and I want to cross China as quickly and cheaply as possible in spring/summer 2013.
How many does that make us? Are we getting down to a reasonable cost soon?

Andy - another possible rider across China
 

Andy

Great to hear from you.

Myself and other HU travellers that I have communicated with still have not committed to a particular route - if I understand what has been said correctly. Certainly for myself I am still undecided.

What is looking feasible and probable is - the route starting from Laos through Tibet exiting China into Kyrgyzstan in May/June, 2013. Possibility of as many as 4-6 other riders joining a family group in a vehicle. The itinerary is for a trip of 34 day duration. Potential for the costs reducing down to as little as $2000+ per vehicle.

Don't know if the tour company have a number limit for a single guide but as far as I am concerned - the more the better.

My suggestion is to stay in touch. More than happy to share what my research comes up with.

Cheers
David

Cool, yes, I'll do some more research too and we'll see how this turns out. Hopefully south to north then... ;-)

I met a guy a few days ago who drove Tibet-China-Laos, 2 cars, 2 people, 21 days and paid $3000 per person, but he said that he knows the shortest trip through China would be Laos-Mongolia which would take only 10 days. And I guess less days=less money...

So I'll dig some more and see what I find...

Andy - options
 

Andy

I will keep looking around for the best deal as well. Stay in touch as I reckon there will be several options for us to choose from.

David

Travel advisories
 

The AUS govt. ( like other govts ) is constantly re-assessing and putting out revised 'Travel Advisories'.

For information the advisories currently fall into the following categories (but they need to checked for changes conditions often) -
1.Do Not Travel
2.Reconsider need to travel
3.Exercise high degree of caution
4.Normal safety precautions

At last look most of the countries I propose to travel though have a 'Normal safety precautions" advisory such as Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, China, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Europe generally. A couple of countries have an "Exercise High Degree of Caution" advisory such as Turkey, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan. Travellers "need to pay close attention to personal security"

Countries that were in the mix such as Iran and Pakistan have a "Reconsider need to travel" advisory. It means these countries have "volatile unpredictable security". Shame about Iran - many bloggers that have been there report it to be a beautiful and welcoming country????

I don't presume to know better than the advice given so will take it on board when deciding the route. Stay home and be 100% safe? Yes I have to be sensible and take advice of those in the know BUT ....

Europe, Turkey, the Stans, China, South East Asia or vise versa. Borders open, travel advisories reasonable, nothing stopping me so far.

David

I have a car to accompany you through China
 

David-
A friend of mine rode his motorcycle from Laos to Uzbekistan last year using Tibet Reisen tour company (Tibet Reisen und Tibet Trekking, Selbstfahrt durch Tibet, Kailash Trekking | Greatway). I currently live in Kyrgyzstan and am planning to drive to Singapore in spring 2013, where I will the ship my car (1986 Land Rover Defender) to LA and drive to NY to complete my around the world drive.
Anyway, my friend recommended I get on Horizons to try and meet up with folks like you. As you well know, China is tough and expensive, but it can be done. I would be willing to host the guide in my car saving you the cost of having to rent a car from the guide. They proposed a total price around $9,000 for a 39 day trip from the Tourgat Pass in Kyrgyzstan through Tibet to the Laos border @ Mohan.
If we could get a group of 6 or 8 bikers together, as my friend did, the prices start to become more reasonable. If this is something you are interested in pursing please let me know.
My time constraints mean that I must be in Singapore by mid-July at the absolute latest, but I am free to leave as soon as the snow is cleared.

Grif

UK-Kyrgyzstan and Safety
 

I would also add that I drove London-Bishkek (and on to Mongolia) last year in a school bus. Governments put out warnings consistently for nearly every country on earth. I would not want to drive much in Afghanistan or increasingly Iraq, but other than that I don't think there are many areas on your proposed route that you need to avoid. I was unable to secure an Iranian visa as an American citizen but may friends have gone through. Parts of NW Pakistan are dicey but it can still be done if you really want to.

Generous Offer - China with Land Rover
 

Grif
Thank you for the message.
This is where I am at - I am communicating with two main groups one travelling north/west and the other south/east. No decision has been made as to which group I will join as yet - this decision will have to be made soon so I can commence planning.
Your generous offer is definitely of interest and I will make it known to the guys that are doing the UK to AUS route.
I'll put it out there and keep in touch - other interested travellers may read your post and contact you direct.
Thank you again.
David

Travel Advisories
 

Grif
I agree and would love to do Iran (Afghanistan and Iraq have never been in the mix) (northern Pakistan KKH was for a short time) but have decided not to push my luck to much.

During my travels the only place where my life hung in the balance was during a visit to Compton, south central LA. I had to pick up my bike from a warehouse. On my way there a group of gangbangers had a bit of sport with me. They had more weapons than the entire AUS army - well it just seemed that way at the time.

As a US citizen you may know of the area.

Thanks for the info.
David

pm you David
thanks Richard

May I ask what the tally is going from Laos through China now?

Clarissa and I are still assessing our options and if it was becoming more economically feasible to go through China we could join in on the fun too. We're in SEA at the moment (Cambodia). That would be another two bikes.

Take care,

Neil

So Far - Potential bikes for AUS - UK 2013.
 

Neil

Thank you for the interest. China is looking good - just waiting on more detail from tour companies.

So far I have communicated with the following -
'sanpedro' has 2 X bikes X 4 persons definite plus several other possibles who have approached him via his post. They are happy for more riders to join.
'TrippingOver' has expressed interest.
'olionel' has expressed interest.
'andykarn' has expressed interest.
now yourself.

Don't think I've missed anyone - there have been others asking questions or offering advice but no interest expressed.

ChinaTours has a family in a vehicle prepared to join others in May, 2013. The guide would be accommodated in the vehicle = costs come down.

Assuming everyone listed above plus myself = 7 X bikes 9 X riders and pillions + 1 X family group 1 X vehicle.

Hope that helps your deliberation. Will provide more info. as it comes to hand.

Cheers
David

UK to AUS via China - interest so far.
 

Richard

Got your message thank you.

Have a look at the link below - it was sent to me by 'MOGGY' and this route is something like the trip I would like to make no matter which direction. Regarding China - either Silk Road or Tibet. Mongolia so far has not come into the mix.

London to Australia

If I was to start in UK I would like to get going late spring and meet up with 'grifpeterson' and others to cross China.

So far 'MOGGY', 'Tomos', 'TomBon 865' and 'grifpeterson' have expressed interest.

Your estimates of costs and timeframes are about right - can be done a lot cheaper but it is a once in a lifetime thing and to be enjoyed.

Cheers
David

Small force to be reckoned with indeed!

Shall be weighing up the costs and talking it over today. We will try and nut it out quickly to avoid mucking anyone around.

Cheers!

Response to tradern
 

With this size group the costs are considerably less - assuming everyone realises their dreams and starts the journey.

Don't rush your deliberation - I'm very much chilled - what will be will be.

David

At this point of discussion (we had a lazy day here in Siam Reap) we have realised we would have to miss out on Russia if we went this way. As we both want to do wheelies with Putin in Moscow this is going to knock us out.
As if we went East to Vlad we will be riding back to do Europe anyway. If we go west towards the EU we then will have gnarly Russian weather by the time we finish in Europe.

Argghh... Should have planned this all a little better... beer

We have met a couple of people that went through Iran and had no problems at all.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Trip-End-Of-The-World
- this guy went through and only had troubles because he had a gopro on the helmet, got chased down by police but all was good in the end.

Aus gov tends to be overly pessimistic about these things. Mostly just covering their asses I think and so they can turn around and say they warned you if you ask for consular assistance if you get in the shit with the authorities etc.

Iran
 

Thank you for that and I agree. Read many blogs of riders who had no trouble at all.
Cheers
David

Missing out on Russia
 

No problem - say hello to Putin - isn't he a Harley Davidson man????

David

China - guide costs
 

For information of those considering the trip. Received another quote for the China leg of the trip. Costs appear to be fairly uniform across most guide companies.

Tour price for self-drive based on 2pax2motorbikes+1pax1car(with a seat for guide) in May 2013: USD12622,- per group

Tour price for self-drive based on 3pax3motorbikes+1pax1car(with a seat for guide) in May 2013: USD14349,- per group

Included
Full set of vehicle import documents/paper works in China for self drive
Arrival check in at Chinese customs and exit customs handling to Laos
Chinese temporary drivers license and temporary vehicle plate/tag
Vehicle inspection fees after entry China
Vehicle liability insurance fees and the third-party insurance fees in China
Informed English speaking guide as the liaison to be at your service during the tour
Wages to the liaison guide includes hotel accommodations and daily meal supply
Chinese ordinary travel accidental injury insurance for travelers

Excluded
All visa fees
Meals and hotel accommodations in China
Fares of China toll road, bridge and tunnel access charges when applicable
Tip to your national guide
Sightseeing tickets and admission fees for tours, excursions and trips
Personal expenses and persons issues such as drinking water, phone call, shopping etc.
International travel insurance, Chinese commercial vehicle insurance, first-aid charge and charges of emergency evacuation; car fuel/gasoline in China and Car fix and repair fees
All the service not mentioned in the inclusions and itinerary

As you can see the costs are NOT calculated simply by dividing the total cost by the number of riders. As per the quote above for an additional bike and rider there is a $620 cost saving per person.

Cheers
David

Heading East 2013 - China Crossing
 

Hi David,

I just came across your post and I have similar issues regarding the China crossing.

I intend to start from Germany next year in May, going to Mongolia, and from there south to Nepal/India via China. I guess I would be in China in July/August.

Let me know, which way you are going and whether you will start in UK ...

Best Regards

Jens

Mongolia?
 

Jens

Thank you for your message. Starting out from Germany you probably will pass through Russia enroute to Mongolia? The route I am discusing with others and pretty much decided on does not involve Mongolia.

My route, at this stage should I decide on UK to AUS, passes through Turkey, the stans and then Kashgar.

Cheers
David

Clever bastards! Keeping the costs up even though we add more people to the group. I like simple mathematics, but of course, they're Chinese, they practically "invented" it, huh? So they can do whatever they want! ;-) Hmm..
I'll try to find more people to join, but unless the costs per person doesn't get under $1000 I can't afford it. Then I'll ship the bike instead...
IF you go south to north, that is...

China costs
 

Hello

Judging by the last quote the costs are down to $3,587 USD per vehicle assuming four vehicles with a seat for the guide. When I first started looking the cost for me travelling alone was in the vicinity of $14,000 USD.

The quotes appear to indicate that the cost of Chinese insurance, licence fees and vehicle tags per vehicle is high. When I compare the cost of three vehicles v's four vehicles the costs per vehicle reduce by about $600 only. That is why I have been canvassing for other interested riders to join forces with. I have asked for quotes from every guide company found on the internet. Don't think the cost per rider will ever get down to less than a $1,000 USD though.

If you find anything please let me know.

David

Yeah, it was maybe a bit naive to think I'd get away with it THAT "cheap"... we'll see how much I manage to scrape together until spring... Thanks a lot for checking so thoroughly!
/A

Hi Jens, Re your preferred route I think we share almost the same timing and route, I see David has found groups traveling from Kyrgyzstan to Laos and also Laos north to the Stans. David are you aware of any groups traveling Mongolia to Laos?.

Thanks Jimmy



"I just came across your post and I have similar issues regarding the China crossing.

I intend to start from Germany next year in May, going to Mongolia, and from there south to Nepal/India via China. I guess I would be in China in July/August.

Let me know, which way you are going and whether you will start in UK ...

Best Regards

Jens"

Possible group with 4x4 travelling Mongolia to Laos September 2013
 

I have received a reply from Tibetriesen. They have an inquiry from a 4x4 wishing to transit China ( Mongolia to Laos) in september 2013. There is a possibility to join the group and share costs.

If you travel alone, a working vehicle for our guide is needed, it should be much more expensive.

It is on the best you can travel with another vehicle. From Sept. 2013 we have an inquiry for the routing like below. Maybe you can join in.

Itinerary English version: Mogolia - Erlianhaote – Xian – Sichuan - Yunnan - Mohan – Laos in 23 days:
Day01 Entry in China through Erlianhaote (also Ehrenhot)
Morning enter China via Mohan border, after custom formalities drive to hotel. 2N at 4*Haifeng Hotel

Day02 Erlianhaote: completion of formalities.

Day03 Erlianhaote – Uangab (353km). 1N at 3*Bihai Hotel

Day04 Uangab – Zhangjiakou – Huailai – Great Wall by Badaling (285km in 3.40 St.). 2N at Great Wall
Day05 Great Wall by Badaling: Wandering.

Day06 Badaling – Huailai - Xuanhua - Datong (280km in 3.50 St.). 2N at 4*Yugang International Hotel

Day07 Datong: Yungang caves, Nine-Dragon-Wall. Huayan monastery, Hongqi Market.

Day08 Datong – Hunyuan - Yingxian (141km in 2.30 St.): On the way you can visit wood pagode in Yinxian and hanging monastery in Hunyuan. 1N in Yingxian

Day09 Yingxian - Taiyuan (250km in 3.20 St.): Drive to Taiyuan. On the way visit Jinci Tempel. 1N at 4*Shanxi Grand Hotel

Day10Taiyuan – Yuci– Altstadt Pingyao – Jiexiu – Linfen (255km in 3 St.): You can visit old city Pingyao (UNESCO). 1N in Linfen

Day11 Linfen – Houma – Yuncheng – Weinan - Xian (390km in 5.15 St.). 2N at 4*Grand New World Hotel

Day12 Xian: Terracotta Warriors, Big Wild Goose Pagoda and City Wall, Morschee.

Day13 Xian – Hanzhong(356km in 7 St.). 1N in Hanzhong

Day14 Hanzhong - Guangyuan (Mingyuexia, Thousand-Buddha-Fresco) (184km in 4 St.). 1N at 3*Guangyuan Hotel

Day15Guangyuan (Huangze Si Tempel) – Mianyang – Panda Zoo - Chengdu (158km in 3 St.). 2N at 4*Wuhou Express Holiday Inn

Day16 Chengdu: Qingyang Gong Tempel, Maosoleum of Du Fu, Tee drink in People’s Park, Old city wide and narrow lanes.

Day17 Chengdu – Ya’an (141km in 2 hrs). 1N at 4*Beite Star and Moon Hotel

Day18 Ya’an – Xichang (280km in 3 hrs). In Xichang visit slave museum, Qionghai lake, Datonglou old city). 1N at 3*Pretty Hotel

Day19 Xichang – Panzhihua - Kunming (G108, 507km in 8.11 hrs). 2N at 3*Camelia Hotel

Day20 Kunming: visit Qiongzhu Si Tempel, West Mountain and Dianci Lake, stone forest.

Day21 Kunming – Yuxi (97km in 1.30 hrs). 1N in Yuxi

Day22Yuxi – Mojiang – Pu’er - Jinghong (446km in 6.30 St.). 1N im 3*Yunti Hotel

Day23 Jinghong - Mengla – Mohan (180km in 3 hrs) – Laos: Early morning drive to the border for Laos. Help with the departure formalities.
End of the trip.

Tour price for self-drive based on 1pax with 1 motobike & 2 pax with 1 vehicle 2013: USD7941,- per group



Its a bit late in the year for me but maybe of interest to others.


Jimmy46

Hi there Jimmy46 - in this deal, is the bike considered one group and the car is considered the other group? Seems rather unfair that the "car group" pays the same as the "bike group"?

I think the way to make China manageable is (a) shortest possible path (b) largest possible group. Arranging a big group is never going to be easy but the traveller always has some options for route.

At 23 days, this route is longer than it needs to be and consequently expensive :(

Myanmar is starting to thaw out these days. Maybe we can look forward to some competition against the Chinese monopoly in the future.

cheers

Alternatives
 

Jimmy46

Tomos and myself appear to be the only two who are flexible about which direction we travel in. Either way it involves freighting the bike and ourselves in one direction whether it be AUS to UK or vise versa.

The reason for my post has always been to offset the cost of crossing China by joining with other genuine starters crossing China in 2013. The direction or route in which I cross does not matter as much. I am not gong to pay $14,000 USD to cross by myself.

There have been a few Aussies and a few Brits express interest but nothing concrete yet.

If I understand Tomos correctly he would entertain the prospect of crossing China from Mongolia to Laos as would I if that is the only interest being shown.

The only positive about starting in AUS is that we would be travelling through South East Asia before the monsoon whereas travel the other way would be straight into the monsoon.

If we continue to communicate I am sure will find a cost effective way to cross China.

Cheers
David

Alternatives
 

Hello

The quickest and shortest way to cross China would be to ride on highways from Mongolia to Laos - which motorbikes are not allowed to do. Bikes are also banned from parts of the major cities.

Don't know that I am looking for quick and short anyway - it's all about the journey. Three to four weeks crossing China is a fair effort on roads that rate between poor to fair.

I have sought quotes from every guide company I could find on the net and all the quotes are very much the same or very close.

Assuming four bikes and a 4 X 4 the costs come down to $3,500 USD approx.
Still expensive.

Got one Brit, Tomos, who is a genuine starter - still looking for more. Still undecided as to direction of travel or route.

Cheers
David

Transit China
 

Hi David, subject to timing I am 100% committed to traveling through China.My preferred route is Mongolia to Laos. I know its not going to be less than £2000 plus my costs ( food, fuel and accommodation) and could be 50% more.On the subject of duration I cannot see why you would want to pay all this money then race through China without drawing breath, 30 days would seem to be the norm for this route, I was told that adding a bike to a 4x4 trip would add a few days as bikes are not allowed on expressways.
Just to be clear for this to work for me I need to be entering Laos late mid to late July. If this fits count me in.

Thanks Jimmy

Another starter
 

Jimmy

Tomos contacted me with the good news about another definite starter from the UK side. Tomos himself would prefer to start from UK so it appears that a UK start it will be.

Which Chinese guide company is the quote from? Are the other riders Tomos mentions firming up in their interest?

This is a once in a lifetime trip for me so I want it to be enjoyable. Don't mind the odd day when we do big k's but not a mad rush.

Will keep in contact.
Safe riding.
David

Hi David.

I've just come across with your thread and looking for the same info.
I'd rather to make this trip from Europe to SE on the lately 2013 summer.
My goal would be riding on my bike and through Kashgar, take the G219 road to Tibet and get out by Laos or Thailand.

If the shit finally hits the fan... pls count with me.
Max.

Interest in UK to AUS
 

Thanks Max for your interest.

That is the way our early planning was tracking. I am committed to join forces with Tomos who now has plans to enter via Mongolia.

Please keep in touch. I will try to post updates more often.

David

Update of plans
 

Thank you to everyone that has shown interest or sent private messages of advice and support.

UPDATE :

I have decided to travel UK to AUS. The decision was made after weighing up the level of committment of those expressing interest.

At this stage I will be joining forces with 'Tomos' and 'Jimmy46' (both Brits but I am prepared to overlook this). My early planning was to enter China via Kazakhstan and exit via Laos. 'Tomos' has found another group entering China via Mongolia. I am happy to change my plans to join with a reasonable sized group through China so as to offset the cost. The point of entry is not absolutely vital.

The internet is full of rumors and mis-information. The latest is that Laos borders are closed to motorcycles or will be closed next year. I have been unable to confirm this information - without adding to the rumors - anyone have a credible source confirming this?

Will try and post updates more regularly.

Cheers
David

Update
 

UPDATE :

For all those still toying with the idea of doing this trip and want to know how long it will take please read the following.

This was my estimation of the travel time I posted some weeks ago. It is as follows BUT those plans have changed and looks like we will cross into China via Mongolia.

Distance alone will not determine how long it will take. Rest days, border crossings, police and government officials, vehicle reliablity, staying injury free, stopping occassionly to smell the roses, etc will all play a part. The distances listed below are all approx. only.

Some European tour companies offer group tours from Moscow to Bangkok or Istanbul to Bangkok. These tours are listed as taking 50 - 60 days. My estimate from UK is approx. 80 days.

Distance UK to Istanbul is approx. 4250 kilometres divided by 300 (distance travelled per day) = 14 days.

Istanbul to Georgia border = 1980 klms divided by 300 = 7 days

Georgia to Chinese border = 4300 klms divided by 300 = 14 days

China time and distance is determined by the guide company we employ. The government determines the route we will take. Different provinces from time to time are no go zones. But I have a quote for 28 days which includes four rest days.

Laos, Thailand and Malaysia will take another 14 days.

Trip info
 

Hi Dave,

I did the Oz to Europe trip back in 2010 and happy to send any info ( GPS, Journals etc ) email bergrider at hotmail dot com or PM here.

I'm in Egypt, finally heading North again ( part 3 of my RTW run ) so please be patient as IT if scarce.

Cheers !
Frank.

Aus to UK
 

David,
I have just discovered your blog. Unfortunately I may be a little late. My son and I will be travelling from Australia to Europe next year on two BMW R1200s .We will be leaving Victoria in April, through the centre to Darwin then Singapore to Europe. We originally planned to travel through China but like everyone found the cost to be too high. We are now looking at other routes. We would still like to travel through China. If your current plans change and you decide to go from Aus to UK let us know.
If anyone else out there want to travel through China in June please contact me

Paul

Aus to UK
 

Clive and Chris,
Thanks for the contact. First an apology, I am still learning to use HU so I hope that I am posting this reply in the correct place.
Do yo have a firm idea of your entry and exit points in China?

Paul

Hi Paul
we are thinking of going up the KKH entering China at the Khunjerab pass,exiting China at Touragart pass.
Were thinking maybe around June ,we are flexiable if we are going to team up with other people.
We do know of 3 other intrested groups with similar plans,im thinking that in the new year we are going to have to make concrete plans with those who are interested.

cheers Clive and Chris

brisbane2bristol.wordpress.com

Information - thank you
 

Frank

Thank you. No point re-inventing the wheel - I am keen to get as much info. as possible so will be in contact.

Keep safe. When I was in Egypt had to travel in a convoy down to Luxor - still the case? Felt more of a target in the convoy than when I managed to slip out and about by myself.

Cheers
David

Invitation.
 

Paul

Thank you for making contact. I am committed to a group based in UK. I am betting on the fact that this group will not evaporate and I am left high and dry.

If the worst happens I may be contacting you.

I reckon your trip leaving in April is the way to go. You miss the SE Asia monsoon which starts August/September - then late May/June in China and Europe for their summer.

I was going to ship the bike via Toll Marine, Darwin to Singapore.

Anyway that is all now changed. These Brits I am joining seem genuine, not just dreamers, and I have given my word.

Safe trip and enjoy.
David

Update
 

UPDATE

Did my second last update say our group was going to cross into China via Mongolia???????? Sorry but that has now changed for reasons beyond my control. Just when plans appear to be rock solid they melt away.

Several emails later we ( the group from UK ) are crossing into China via Kyrgyzhstan.

If everyone who have expressed interest ends up crossing China the guide costs come down to approx. GBP 1500 - 2000 which is reasonable. That is for a 32 day trip.

We exit via Laos.

Wher are you?
 

Jimmy
Have been sending unanswered emails. Keen to talk if you are still 100% committed.
David

Didn't work out
 

Pirate
There for a while I thought sanpedro and yourself were a real chance for us to join up BUT it didn't work out. Your keeness for KKH is not what I am interested in.

If everything goes pear shaped with the Brits then I may have to re-consider.

Ride safe.
David

Hi David,
i have defiantly got to go through China,quick, or longer if the the group is large enough to keep costs down,Sandpedro travel plans have changed a bit but still wants to be in the loop if things change for him.
If i cant join a group i will be doing the quick dash like i have stated previously up the kkh. It is not my preferred route ,but will be the cheapest one if its just me or if someone else joins me,which would be welcoming.

At the moment my head is around getting everything ready for hitting Malaysia in Jan.
cheers Clive and Chris

brisbane2bristol.wordpress.com

Aus to UK
 

David,
Thanks for your reply. Let me know if your plans change.

Enjoy your adventure,
Paul

hi Paul,
whats your thinking of crossing China?

Aus to UK
 

Hello Clive and Chris,

If we continue with our plans to transit China we will enter via Laos or Vietnam.
We may just fly from Bangkok to either Nepal or Bangladesh. My son who has just graduated from Uni is on a very tight budget so our plans will be dictated largely by the cost of transiting China.

Regards,
Paul

Keep in touch Paul,with your plans and I will do likewise
Cheers Clive and Chris

Mongolia China Laos
 

Hi all please see attached Email from Tibetreisen, they seem to have a group traveling in September, its too late for me, I have emailed the German group asking if they are flexible at all on dates, awaiting reply

Hi Jimmy,

is it possible that you enter China in September?

One German pair will do this route and welcome the accompany, and have seat for guide.
Can I forward your e-mail to the Germen?

Best regards
Hongquan Dong


From: Jim jones
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:57 AM
To: info@tibetreisen.com
Subject: RE: Self drive motorcycle through China Mongoila to Lao




Thank you for the e mail. My schedule is flexible a little, route is Mongolia to Laos through China 29 days + - . My preferred date is Enter China June 6th to exit into Laos early July ( flexible a little +- 5 days). I hope this helps and we can build a group most important is one 4x4 with seat for guide.

Regards Jimmy

China - looks like it going to happen
 

Jim

Thank you for your post.

We have a core of 3 X bikes and 2 X 4 wheeled vehicles. There are a couple of others who are yet to decide. We have Australian, German and Brits so far. Maybe a Brazilian and another Aussie.

We are in final discussion, negotiation, to sort out the finer details.

When I last spoke to you - you were 100% on board depending on timing.

The group will be entering China via Kyrgzstan and transitting China over 30+ days. The entry date has not been decided but looks like being late June.
It is not the Mongolia entry you were asking for but hey you still get to do China.

If those details suit you or you want more please get back to me or Jim Griffiths who you have spoken to as well.

Cheers
David

Hope you

Torugart Pass, China, Laos
 

Hi All, Well I did fancy riding Mongolia but it seems that Kyrgyzstan is much preferred. I have not done any research on the stans, I did a quick google maps route, it seems the shortest distance Calais to Torugart is 6800 km . I would like to take my time travelling but circumstances mean it might not be possible. Can someone give me an idea of roads, ease of travel, rough none rushed time scale from Khazakhstan to Torugart. Would two weeks be steady with time for a few days off?. I am happy to rush through Europe and Google maps says it 4000km Calais into Khazakhstan, happy to knock that off in under 14 days. This would mean one month to China, one month in China. My preferred exit into Laos is early July, does that fit at all?.

Thanks

Jimmy

China plans - UPDATE.
 

Jimmy

Any chance of you emailing me rather than communicating through HU posts please? dsta3028@gmail.com I will be able to give more detail and put you on the mailing list - you will then be included in all stages of planning and have the opportunity give input.

The plan is to flip through western Europe to Czech Republic. From there travel south through eastern Europe to Turkey. Turkey to Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan.

China with a guide, Laos, Thailand, maybe Cambodia, Malaysia and home to Australia - welcome to visit Australia yourself.

So far the plan is to cross China in a 35+ day trip. The costs are substantially reduced with the size of our group.

Time of entry is still being negotiated amongst our core group. So far the consensus is for a late June entry - feel free to join the discussion.

IF THERE ARE OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES PLEASE GET IN TOUCH.

Cheers
David

Other interested parties
 

Got a response from Jimmy46 - thank you.

Tomos and richard107 - what are you guys up to?

Have you got something happening - if not are you still monitoring this HU post?

Trying to get feedback from members who contacted me expressing ingterest.

Cheers
David

Hi all,
Can I ask how much you are being charged for, for transiting China?
How many days, is it still the 35 days in China that was mentioned earlier?

What is the cost for you to put temporary licence plates on the bikes adn cars/trucks, while transiting through China?

How much are you being charged to be provided with temporary driving licences ?

Can I comment on your route please,

Have you considered Calais ----> Keive (Ukraine)----> Naryn (Kyrgyzstan)
About 4200 miles. (6800km) ?

Vette

Hi,
we are two bikers from Czech Republic. We planned trip from Prague to Hong Kong but with the costs of crossing China, we will be very glad to change it and join your group on China borders and do the China with you. We are flexible in dates, but has to May to July next year....so it seems very likely that we can join you, if you are still seeking more bikers

Hi again David, Max again from Spain.
As I told you I am very keen to join your group.
Possibly on Turkey or Kyrgistan.
But my point is I'd rather be later: July or August, even September.
If you do not mind I send you a private to put me on your list.
Yours.
Max.

One+
 

Hi again David, Max again from Spain.
As I told you I am very keen to join your group.
It would be possibly on Turkey or Kyrgistan.

But my point is I'd rather be later: July or August, even September.
June is very tricky for me at the moment.
If you do not mind I send you a private to put me on your list.

Max

Group entering China In August September 2013
 

See below a German family madeline_knuth@ the hot place dot com. I was given their details by Chinatibettravel. Not much use to me but may be of use to others. Jimmy



We're planning a trip from Switzerland to Australia by car. We start in May 2013 and travel trough Turkey, Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kasachstan and Mongolia. We're planning to enter China in August/September 2013.
At the moment it's difficult for us to define an exact date of entry and exit.
What are your plans? When do you need to know if we can travel together?


I also asked Mr Jun from China Tibet Travel to put our travel information on his website (please find the link below) to find other cars who want to join us.


Birdwatching in China


Keep in touch.
Best regards,
Madeleine, Rico with Amelie & Johanna

Private message
 

Max
Sent you a private message
Cheers
David

Update
 

UPDATE :

There has been a lot of discussion and negotiation behind the scenes.

The group consists of 4 X bikes and a possible 1 X bike. 2 X cars. Total of nine persons.

Entry date 20th June.

Route Kyrgyzstan travelling east to Xian then south to Laos.

Duration 35 days ( issue with 60 day visa yet to be resilved )

Guide company in final throws of negotiation and decision.

Hope that helps.
David

Quote for crossing China
 

The whole group is being charged ten and a half K. Not bad at all. That figure will vary according to the numbers that end up going.

Duration is 35 days.

Entry date 20th June, 2013.

All the costs are included as above.

The route for several of the group is different but we will meet in Kyrgyzstan.

Myself and perhaps two others will be riding through eastern Europe and turkey before the 'stans'.

Hope that helps.
David

Jimmy46 - Info.
 

Thanks Jimmy46

Our plans are pretty much established - probably get tweeked a few times but slowly taking shape.
David

Finalising arrangements
 

UPDATE :

For all those that are following this post or anyone new to the post - we are still prepared to take on more travellers.

China - we enter on the 20th June.

Duration - 35 days.

Route - enter via Kyrgyzstan, east to Xian and then south to Laos.

Who is going - four definite bikes so far and two cars.

Guide company - decided.

What next - paying deposit and sending personal details.

Interested send me email - dsta3028@gmail.com

David

Which Chinese Tour Company?
 

Hi David, have read this thread with interest as planning a trip to China myself - also for 2013 but leaving later than you (around Aug or Sept) and keen to consider the G219 highway from Kashgar to Lhatse after entering China from Kazakhstan. Already there are some others here on HU interested and just wanting to get a quote from a Chinese tour company before we ask others here to join us. Which tour company are you using?

Sounds like your plans are well developed and I hope all goes well.

Chinese Tour Co
 

Hi Charlemagne. Name's Max.
I'm in David's group. I left you a message on your post a couple of weeks ago = keen on same route -G219-, and same dates as you.
But I will wait David to give you a reply with the data you need. I do not want to take his credit for doing so. And he deserves it. Hope you understand.
Regards.
Max.