The thread was the future of motorcycling, not motorcycling adventure!! Still it's a pertinent point and the one I ponder on most when I think about my future trips in a world of uncertain energy sources...

However, if I were to have a guess, a supposition on how such a thing might evolve I would guess that solar panelling, such as those you can pick up now from Maplins could be used. Perhaps they will be foldable and unfurl to a relatively large area, and capture charge over a couple of hours. I imagine efficiency will increase over time.... Perhaps any downward gradient could run dynamos to charge the batteries through the bike's own momentum.

As for using up a community's charge: if it paid for how is it different from pitching up and buying 30 litres of their petrol now? There's no reason to suppose it would be free!

This is conjecture, but is it beyond the realms of possibility, 20 years from now?

If any of this happens it would be a gradual change: but we are only summising what the final outcome might be so the interim period of change/adjustment etc is overlooked.
Perhaps bike overland will not be possible anymore the same way that one cannot travel truly uncharted lands now, the way they did in the 1800s... Who knows, but where there's a will, there's a way...

Perhaps you should read a book by Thomas Gold ,"the Deep Hot Biosphere".
It explains how naturally occurring bacteria formed the oil deposits we now exploit .The Russians share his view of the origins of oil ,even if the US do not .

The Environmental Literacy Council - Abiotic Theory

Bacteria are used even now by oil companies to descale pipes [of salt and waxy oils] that bring oil to the surface .
Bacteria are alive in your gut digesting your food .
Bacteria digest oil too and are used to decontaminate toxic wastes .
They are everywhere and yes they are found in oilfields living under unimaginable temperatures and pressures .
Not all bacteria are bad .

The oil companies also have the money to buy power plants and are already heavily into alternative energy [Shell and BP already sell solar panels ],so no big surprises who you will pay to charge your batteries .
What would stop them from building a power plant on top of a methane or oil field ?

Batteries ,whether you believe it or not ,are still a very primitive method of storing power .Looking back over the last few cell pones I have had ,the only way they have improved has been in circuitry ,ergonomics and the number of tricks they can perform using less power ,batteries are still about the same .
The technology has been around for over a hundred years.

There may be electric bikes coming that will propel us at 100 mph for hours on end ,but it will take a major revolution in power storage to achieve that .
What will more than likely happen is that the bike will be electrically driven but will produce it's own electricity .This is a much better alternative than thousands of extra power plants needed to cope with millions of extra people wanting to plug in their vehicles for a booster charge .

My view for the future is that there will be less dependency on oil as a fuel ,but it will not run out as quickly as some have predicted .Perhaps if T Gold's theories are espoused and oil extraction is managed carefully ,there will be fuel available to motorcycle riders in perpetuity .

There also needs to be a major change in attitudes as well , some may cry about the environment but then jump on a 1200cc bike loaded with gear for an RTW .When we all know that you can successfully travel RTW on a 100cc bike .A smaller bike uses less of the earth's resources ,both in it's manufacture and it's fuel usage - so why aren't we all on 100cc bikes right now ?

I'd ride an electric bike ,though I may not really want to at first .
I don't think I'd fit speakers or stick a piece of cardboard in the spokes though .

But I'd really prefer a steam bike ,then I could burn anything I like and the Government would have a hard time taxing me .

hydrogen for the 125cc'ers, everyone else your buggered!
 

I still think electric powered vehicles are dumb, hydrogen fuel cell and 'synergy' hybrid drive systems are the future, at least for me. Hydrogen isused to power cars, buses, motorcycles(see below, although anyone with a full licence will be gutted) and submarines to mention a few. As Dodger pointed out, batteries are not very smart; more power goes into making them that what the finished product provides, not to mention the disposal off such items.

A most interesting article as well; Abiotic Theory.

To find out info on the Hydrogen Bike go here;
Why a hydrogen powered motorbike won't sell

To find info on why it will not sell to the majority of bikers, go here:
Why a hydrogen powered motorbike won't sell

Personally being on a 125cc (and enjoying it, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one:thumbup1:) this bike is probably my future, and I think it looks pretty smart.

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Originally Posted by Dodger (Post 237530) Perhaps you should read a book by Thomas Gold ,"the Deep Hot Biosphere".

Regarding this alternative theory. I am perfectly open to new ideas and theories but this is still only a theory, not fact and so, however nice a thought it might be that oil may continue, this will not make arbitrarily make it so.
I had heard of Hyperthermophiles, but the most extreme locations I had heard of for their existence was around such places as thermal vents on the seabed where temperatures are between 100-150C IIRR. However, there are still some points to raise about this theory and how it might affect the world oil addiction. Whether bacterial or geo-thermal, oil was created over a VERY long period.
Taking for example the East Texas oil field that had a starting volume of over 1.1 cubic kilometers. That volume of oil is not produced overnight: which ever the method. Yet it is nearly exhausted since its discovery in 1931. So, this basically means that even if oil is replenishable through microbial action: you are going to have to wait longer the a fortnight to get that supply back. In other words, even if this process exists, human demand's outstriping supply by an incredible margin, so oil, to all intents and purposes is still running out…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger (Post 237530) Bacteria are used even now by oil companies to descale pipes [of salt and waxy oils] that bring oil to the surface.

I am aware of bacteria’s positive, symbiotic contributions to life as well as their parasitic traits. After all, life on planet earth would not exist without them. However, all naturally occurring bacteria are there for a reason: they evolved into that role of a given ecosystem, whose complexity is often beyond what scientists can discern. So, in relation to bioengineering, developing a strain whose ecosystemic impacts are unknown, just so we don’t have to work at alternative ways of living, is lazy and short-sighted, not to mention potentially dangerous, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger (Post 237530) The oil companies also have the money to buy power plants and are already heavily into alternative energy [Shell and BP already sell solar panels ],so no big surprises who you will pay to charge your batteries .

I don’t mind who I pay for my energy as long as that energy has a minimal environmental impact, and the authorities controlling that energy do not act immorally. Unfortunately, neither of those are true at present, particularly as there are a number of conflicts raging where oil is doubtless the bottom line, and many environments have been royally stitched up by oil or its related activities. So, if Shell, BP or another decides to develop renewable energy sources: great. At last they can start putting to good use the technologies whose patents they hurriedly bought, but sat on for so long, rather than putting them on the market for fear of damaging their precious oil revenues.
I am not against oil. I’m just against it being the dominant force in the world: not when other energy sources could alleviate so many of the miseries oil contributes to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger (Post 237530) Batteries ,whether you believe it or not ,are still a very primitive method of storing power ……..snip

Perhaps this point is not such an obstacle after all:

Google search

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger (Post 237530) My view for the future is that there will be less dependency on oil as a fuel ,but it will not run out as quickly as some have predicted .Perhaps if T Gold's theories are espoused and oil extraction is managed carefully ,there will be fuel available to motorcycle riders in perpetuity .

I’d be quite happy for oil to have a more marginalized role in energy and in that respect I hope your predictions are right: after all we have worked to make its uses many. However, if you think that bikers will have access to whatever trickle bacteria may or may not produce, I don’t think it will happen: Fuel cell, or electric will not make flying or shipping any easier IMO, so I think they will get first picks before one of the smallest private transport minorities, not to mention the military!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger (Post 237530) There also needs to be a major change in attitudes as well, some may cry about the environment but then jump on a 1200cc bike loaded with gear for an RTW .When we all know that you can successfully travel RTW on a 100cc bike .A smaller bike uses less of the earth's resources ,both in it's manufacture and it's fuel usage - so why aren't we all on 100cc bikes right now ?

Guilty as charged. We rode an 1150 two-up and we plan to ride a Ural rig with three of us. Economy is far from brilliant, but it’s better than a car and 3 won’t fit on a bike. For what its worth, we may burn petrol riding, but when you camp: you’re not switching on lightbulbs!
Thing is, I am not advocating living in a cave or selling our beloved bikes, in order to get a bicycle or donkey trap. I think that if we made reasonable concessions in other parts of our lives (domestic energy for example, less air travel where possible) then said remaining oil could last a lot longer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodger (Post 237530) I'd ride an electric bike ,though I may not really want to at first .

The bottom line for me remains the same: regardless of whether oil will run out or not, if it’s replenishable or not. It’s a question we have to ask ourselves.

Given the economic, environmental, and political state of the world, is oil really the energy source we want to keep relying on?
Relying on: not using in moderation or at our leisure. Relying. Because that is the status quo: it does have us by the balls, but it needn’t.

Let’s not think “is oil the one we enjoy the most”, “is it the one that is easiest to get on with”, “is it the on that will let me keep my toys”. Think “is it really the best way forward, even if forward means an awkward period of change and adaptation” before that “something new” becomes the norm, and we wonder why we hadn’t done it years ago?

Oil won't run out before we stop using it
 

Might be worth quoting sheik Yamani here; "The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil."The stone age ended because something better was developed, and there will come a point where it is worth developing alternative fuels. The oil companies are looking at this (not much of a business plan to rely on a finite resource for your future income, only politicians are that short sighted) but the cost of any usable alternative are such that it cannot reach the market until petrol becomes a very great deal more expensive (if you developed a fuel that was indistingushable from petrol today it would never be licenced for public use - petrol explodes, as noted above). Some years ago I was told the research costs were an acceptable gamble if oil was at a constant $100/barrel. That is probably doubled by now by infaltion and tighter regulation.

I suspect anyone reading this can be confident of a supply of petrol for the rest of their lives. Once petrol has been replaced as fuel for distribution and mainstream transport (cars), the small demand from motorcyclists and classic vehicle fans should result in a price reduction (but still higher than today). We will of course still be in the same position we would be with EVs; you'll get petrol for hobbiests in the developed world, but the less developed areas will only have the new fuel for basic transport. By the time that happens though, which countries will be developed and which not is anybodies guess.