Stone throwing children. Where?
 

Hi,
I have been to Morocco about 2 monyhs ago and I met several children which were throwing stones at my car when driving from Zagora to Mhamid. I saw several cars with damaged windows because of this.
Where else is this a problem?
How is the Atlantic Route and sub-saharan Africa?

I also found some nasty children which were holding a rope waiting at both sides of the road; fortunately it was a radio cassete band and broke as my car passed.

How do you deal with this nasty children when on a bike?

Its not much of a problem on the Atlantic route because there are very few settlements or people. You do see small incidents of it across Africa. As to how to deal with it, well dodge. Its just one of those things, there is little point trying to chase them as they disappear off into their village which they know and you don't and if you do manage to catch up with them then if you do anything, there is a strong chance that the local villagers will react back against you. The fact that the kid threw a stone in the first place won't matter, your an outsider versus a village kid. Re the string across the road, usually they are just trying to get you to stop so they can beg money or try and sell something to you. I haven't heard of any attempts with real ropes or actually trying to knock someone off their bike, its pretty harmless and not something to get worried about. Better to slow down and crawl through rather than trying to race through, you don't want to hit accidently hit a child

[This message has been edited by Toby2 (edited 26 February 2006).]

It's best not to worry about it, just deal with it as it happens.
If you're expecting 'trouble' in certain places, all you'll do is stress yourself out and perhaps not pay attention to whats happening around you.
At the end of the day, it's part of the experience. Take the bad with the good.

Thank you for your answers, but I wouldn't slow down when I see those devil children. What I did is to use the horn and drive as fast as possible. If you make some strange movements like driving in the direction in which the children are they got afraid and stop throwing.
Do you think that if a stone is trown at a car it can brake the window and kill you?

When you see children SLOW DOWN....and risk the stone throwing...In fact I think you are less likly the have stones thown if the drive very very slowly through a village, they think you will stop and give chase.....

Reason I say this......I ran over a child last year in the Riff....Not my fault, he ran out from a shop without looking. I was going slow but......Huge Unimog v Small child.....no contest.

Not making light of the personal side but the massive paperwork, delay, lock-up and near linching and threats.....and then the endless paperwork when you do get home......say no more

nasty, having hit a 13 year old on my motorbike in the uk I know how it can feel (although everyones experience is their own). It doesn't make it feel much better that it wasn't your fault. You have my comiserations.

I would definately endorse slow down. I hate speed cameras, I love speed, but when there are people about, especially kids its a different matter.

The stones will do less damage to you as well if you are going slower

Andy
Land 101Ambie/camper
TLCH60x2
1968 morris minor traveller

Hi qwer1234, I agree with detourer, I think it is better to slow down and if any children steps on the sides of the vehicle or in the rear, well that´s one of rhe best things that might happen, so none of the rest children will be throwing anithing to you...
I experienced this situation in the Atlas, I had the rear window broken. It was useless to get mad. Not much more I could do but fix the window with tape.

Saludos.

www.expedicionesfennec.com

On a humorous note – its not just stones that the kids throw. A few years ago in Algreia some enterprising kids found a huge decomposing turkey carcass to lob at us. They positioned themselves on the up hill side of a blind mountain hair pin, just where you would be slowing down thinking you were in the wrong gear. It landed between the spare and the windscreen from at least 40 foot up, exploded on impact and then drained itself into the air vents behind the dash board as we stopped. I never did manage to clean it properly and after 6 months or so the ever present smell of purification still made passengers gag on hot summer days stuck in traffic …

I don't say to drive with 120 km/h in a village or near a village. I was talking in the open desert between Zagora and Mhamid.
When I drive in a village or near it I usually slow down to the limit (40/60 km/h) and drive carefully.
To Detourer: what happened when the police came? Had you to stay in prision? How long?
If you want, send me a private message.

P.S.: In Spain trowing stones at passing cars is considered a crime and punishable with 6 months prision, because you can kill the driver (that's what I am afraid at most), but it seems that in the Sahara and nearby areas nobody cares. Reason: policemen in Morocco don't see it as a profitable activity, because children don't have money; they prefear to stop taxis and trucks at road checks and ask for the missing papers, getting some dirhams instead of the papers. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

In Singapore, it is against the law to spit on the pavement .... In Egypt, it is against the law to take a photograph of a police officer ...In Saudi Arabia, it is against the law to take any pictures in a public place ... and In Haiti , it is against the law to zombify someone , etc.

And they say travel broadens your mind ... :-)

------------------
Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.com

Chuck some sweeties to distract any kids that look like they might be up to mischief.

Andrew.

Oh, no, no noooo! Please don't. Why do you think they are risking life and limb running at cars in the first place?


[This message has been edited by Richard K (edited 28 February 2006).]

"In Singapore, it is against the law to spit on the pavement .... In Egypt, it is against the law to take a photograph of a police officer ...In Saudi Arabia, it is against the law to take any pictures in a public place ... and In Haiti , it is against the law to zombify someone , etc.

And they say travel broadens your mind ... :-)"

Yes, I undrstand that if I am travelling I can not expect to be as protected as at home, especially in places like the Sahara.
P.S.: do you allow me to zombify you, as we both are not in Haiti? http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

Yes, I agree that throwing sweeties to the children IS NOT GOOD, because they get used to and expect it from every passing car.
For example, in areas/countries where there are no tourists there are usually no hassles, especially from children (Albania, non-tourist parts of Turkey or Morocco...).

To Detourer: what happened when the police came? Had you to stay in prision? How long?

Hi qwer1234

The poilice in fact were great and saved me form attack by the locals who only saw the incident for what it was.....Euro man running over local kid. The medical assistance, for the injured kid, was pathetic. I am a qualified medic and was not allowed near to help. He was pushed and dragged all over the place. He was even taken OUT or the ambulance [that arrived after an hour] to be placed back where he landed so that pics could be taken!

I been heavly involved in the tourist industry in Morocco for 20 years and this together with the fact that my attractive daughter was with me [police loved to chat to her] and that info was clear as to what happened.....got me out of cell in less than an hour. But the paperwork and calls took nearly 7 hours....The kid...."not dead" was all I could get.

What has pissed me off is the avoidance tactics by my insurance co....no damage to me/vehicle of course. But the move was/is clearly how NOT to pay anything to injured party whoever is to blame.....

I always carry a huge medic kit.....always knew but now know that you are in fact on your own BIG TIME when the shit hits the fan....whatever else, make sure you can at least admin basic first aid on your travels....

Now? I shit myself as I SLOWLY drive through remote villages, towns and bustling cities!

That's exactly the kind of thing that gives trouble to the next car/bike that comes along... http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/frown.gif



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Last month on a series 400 highway east of Toronto Canada a lady had her face completely rearranged by some idiot that tossed a big rock off a highway overpass. Years before that my own son as a child pitched a rock at a car and managed to take out the windshield. It cost him his allowance for the next thirty years and he had quite a job to sit for a while...This all happened in a first world country. Don't sweat it and just keep your eyes and brain alert.

So, it seems that I can have a stone trown at my car when I drive to university, as it is not something endemic in Africa and the Middle East.
Do you know of some especially bad areas in the Sahara and/or a bit south?

Another solution would be to travel in a tank. It would be also a useful vehicle when I hit soft sand. http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

Normally when encountering stone throwing kids (so far mostly when passing through Tunisia) we just slowed right down. This gives them the feeling the might get caught and dealt with if they did the deed, and it seems to work. We also adopted a policy of 'wave and smile' (whilst slowing down). The only time our group was hit by stones was when blasting along, windows shut looking straight ahead (It was our German friends who were doing this and got a hit).

Throwing sweeties is of course very non pc and therefore must be avoided at all costs.

Andrew

So why suggest it? Throwing sweets, that is...

Jeremy

------------------
pigapitcha

throwing sweets from a moving car at children could cause injury to them - perhaps its a double stone throwing preventative......

Wish I hadn't suggested throwing sweeties really, it seemed like the simplest answer to counter stone throwing kid anxiety without explaining as above the highly technical process of slowing down and engaging with the local population instead of taking no interest in them and just exploiting their country for amusement. That (disinterested tourists syndrome) is more likely IMHO the reason for stone throwing, not the fact you didn't throw a cadeaux. After all stone throwers don't wait to see if you're going to give them something, they are intent on attacking you regardless. And as for the possibility of injuring someone with a high velocity boiled sweet...

Andrew

Hmmm... I don't know, a well-aimed pear drop might sting a little.

personally when kids throw stones at me on a bike, I sometimes go after them, even down alleyways and back yards and try and give them a good kick

all pointless of course, but sometimes I see red. I guess they find that even more exciting, and do it more.

I also do the same with dogs after my ankles....


I think pear drops which are aimed nicely could be a usefull alternative. perhaps we can start a topic titled 'Best object to throw back at stone throwing kids?'

or have we killed this topic :-)

Karim desertbiker


[This message has been edited by coolkarim (edited 05 March 2006).]

Giant gob stopper would make them think twice, or not! Maybe you could lassoo them with liquorice string before dousing them in sherbert powder and beating them with sticks of rock.
of course, when I were a lad................

Andy

So, you suggest me to throw things back to the children?
What about stones? http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif

Please, don't think that I am a sniper or something the like.

You spray bleach in the eyes of dogs, gringo? You think that hitting a child with a heavy-duty slingshot is a good idea? Perhaps you find pleasure in torturing kittens, too. You do seem to enjoy offending people.

James

[QUOTE]Originally posted by coolkarim:
[B]personally when kids throw stones at me on a bike, I sometimes go after them, even down alleyways and back yards and try and give them a good kick

all pointless of course, but sometimes I see red. I guess they find that even more exciting, and do it more.

I also do the same with dogs after my ankles....


ha ha - I'm all for leaving the vehicle and giving chase - even if you don't catch anyone it expends a little "bad energy." and keeps them on their toes!

Gringo - I hope you're joking? blinding dogs with bleach?... holy moly - I bet you leave a trail of good will.

After losing a chunk of thigh (and my best trousers) to a particularly hellish hound in Kenya, I carry a tin of mace -- no permanent damage and wins any argument.

[This message has been edited by Richard K (edited 06 March 2006).]

Bringing the topic slightly back on track (!), I usually find that if I tuck in close behind a truck/bus etc. going through a village then they don't see you coming.

Ie instead of overtaking the thing (normal plan) just sit with it and enjoy the ride...

Sam.

and dodge the stones thrown up by the bus/truck!! I find a good cure for that is to spray bleach in the eyes of the bus driver, especially if it is a school bus travelling at high speed!

by the way, I think mace is illegal in the uk, so it maybe elsewhere too so watch out.

If everyone would do as I do and Solve The Problem, it would make it easier for the next biker to pass through, and the world would be a better place.

And yes, I think it is a fine idea to shoot a kid who is throwing rocks at you with a high powered slingshot.

Blinding dogs with bleach hardly solves the problem of strays wandering the roads. Firing at children from slingshots designed to kill animals is even more moronic.

I'd suspect that you are trying to wind me and other people up, but going by this and other posts you've made, you really are a colossal ***** , gringo.

James

[This message has been edited by JamesCo (edited 08 March 2006).]

Come on JamesCo......and Co. No room for a smile!

Which problem?

"It cuts down on repeat offenders. These are wild dogs and feral children. They attack motorcyclists. People DIE. Or don't you get that?"
I agree that people DIE because nobody is interested to do anything to stop it.

3 years ago when I was cycling through southern Romania I was attaked by about 10 dogs; fortunately a car stopped and started to drive over the dogs, so I could escape. If this helpful driver hasn't stopped, probably I would have ended in a hospital.
Similar is with the stone (or rock) throwing children.

Yep, dogs in Romania can be quite aggressive. But dogs aren't children right?

I must have driven something like 45.000 km's trough Africa. On those 45.000 km's it occured 1 time that a child trew a lump of earth and hit the car.

It occured one time that a kid had the intention to throw a stone, and when he saw that I saw him he wend really small and quickly dissapeared out of the picture.

Stopping to ask for the road, and going slowly and waving and smiling and having contact and let that kid ride on the back of your truck all work pretty well if you ask me. And passing a village this way, you'll feel happy and relaxed because of all the smiles and friendly people you've seen. I don't really know how all you guy's ride trough the villages, but reading above it seems like every village is a hostile environment where you have to ditch stones and chase kids and better ride trough as fast as possible. Must be rather stressfull.

Makes me think of hiking in Romania and having to deal with an aggressive crowd of dogs the sixt time that day. Really wasn't fun!

please note. if you post here , disagreeing with any esteemed HU members opinions, no matter how neatherthal those opinions might seem, that you might start recieving obscence, childish, harrassing fotos and emails to your personal email account. As for myself, i just don´t give a FLYING F***

Jackson Hole, been there, nice hills.

PK

Think some of the more paranoid travellers amongst you could do with one of these, Just put and armoured shelter on the back and any war zones your playground????

http://www.militarytrucks.man-mn.com...moured_SX_.jsp

And just incase everyone thinks that its outside Europe that's DANGEROUS, had my truck broke in to just before Christmas in Spain and friend of mine had motorhome stoned badly in Portugal while parked on beach
Shit happens!!!

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Rob
Bedford MJ, Old & Orange
Your Best travelling companions are an Open mind & a Smile :-)

[This message has been edited by Bert (edited 10 March 2006).]

yep, I'll have one of those!! I used to live between moss side and Rusholm in Manchester, I laugh in the face of stone throwing kids!!

Andy

Toyota H60x2
Landy101 ambie/camper
1968 Moggy minor traveller
www.plymouth-dakar.com

This are the ideal vehicles for travelling overland, especially in the Sahara. You can ever choose not to stop, if the police catches you while speeding http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif
Yes, Europe is also a dangerous place. Where in Spain did they rob you?

Hi qweer1234

The answer is surely to throw children at the stones......?

Dogs and feral children attacking motorcyclists. Tell me how to put an end to it. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Gringo,

I dont know too much about the americas, but in Africa there's no problem with dogs (too hot, too lazy), or feral children.

And I do believe that if there is a problem, than it’s at least partly on our side, and has a lot to do with how we interact with their world (very often very anonymous).

Those kids are throwing stones to cars and motorcycles, not to people, and that’s where I believe is the solution if you have a problem (that is with village kids, I have no experience with feral children). Not saying that there won’t be incidents, but an incident is not a problem is it?

Oh, and maybe there are situations where you need aggression or violence to get out in one piece, but then you really ended up in the wrong place, and you shouldn’t go to such places intentionally.

At least that's my idea. Different people, different ideas right.

Enjoy the road!

Robbert, I just want to ask you: have you ever been to Africa (I am speaking about southern Morocco and also the Sahara)?
You say, childern are throwing stones at cars and bikes (also at cyclists), not at people...
And what about the one who is riding the bike?
Maybe in central Africa dogs are really not a problem, but in the north they are.

Yes
 

Glad you got one of the little s---s! Well done! Hope your Unimog was OK...

I can't believe this!
 

Well Robbert, your ideas are certainly different as you say. You're saying that getting stoned by idiots is our fault....that being attacked is not a problem....are you serious or unwell?

Hi Denis,

Seems you're getting up to cruising speed...

I've been traveling in Tunesia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania several times. I've done more km's there then most people ride in a year. One kid threw one cloth of earth at the rear window once (I was riding in the passenger seat). That's maybe something like a stone every 100 days, which I personally don't see as a 'problem' when 'adventure' traveling in remote areas.

On the other side, it seems that different people had different experiences. And I'm tempted to believe this has a lot to do with how you stand in that other part of the world.
I've seen enough typical western "I'm untouchable in Africa cause I have the money and my govt will make fuss if something happens to me" style of arrogance. Maybe this has something to do with it?

Isn't it reasonable for kids to throw stones at us? It's their place, not ours. We have no right to be there - we visit as a priviledge; if they don't want to extend an invitation, so be it.

Look at it from their point of view.

On my RTW I came accross the kids and stones thing only once - in northern Pakistan on the KKH.

Simon

Tough question, actually. I haven't had problems with kids throwing rocks - but dogs can sure be a problem in rural Mexico. I'd _like_ to slow down and give the offending beast a boot to the head...

but what I've found works best is to drop the speed a bit to give the dogs an easy target. They will 'triangulate' - and as they come close, I open the throttle and zip away. The dog can't think fast enough to 'reacquire' the target and it ends up eating dust.

Oh No!
 

Simon
I cant believe what you said -that it's "reasonable" for kids to throw stones at us! It's ok for them to damage, destroy equipment, to injure, possibly kill a passing motorcyclist? Are you suffering from Christian post-colonial guilt or something?

By your shaky logic, UK kids have the right to stone and attack foreigners.

rocks
 

The only time I´ve had kids through rocks at me was in Peru. I was on the road from Puno to Copocabana, Bolivia. I saw two kids rush from a field to the side of the road and knew they had something in their hands. I slowed down a bit and gunned it as I passed them, the rocks they tossed at me missed. They were pretty big rocks! Peru is also the only country I´ve managed to get my boot to ¨make contact¨ with a yapping/chasing dog. This dog came roaring off a sidewalk to my right- barking like Cujo. I slowed and his head nearly hit my front tire. My right foot (size 12 in MX boots) was already up and I hit him hard at maybe 30kmph. He went down hard and got up slow. Strange how most dogs could care less about motorycles. I often wonder what motivates the chasers.

Well done with the dog, Hook. Simon thinks it was OK for those kids to stone you with big rocks......

Hi Robbert

Seems you're getting into overdrive.......

big dogs
 

I hope he doesn´t advocate children throwing big dogs at visiting riders!