Do you think there's a market for "Off the shelf" Overland prepared motorcycles
 

Would you buy an off the shelf overland bike ??? Not the big BMW's with a touratech book devoted to them. Smaller 125-800cc machines.

If you were starting out or just didnt have the time to do the work yourself..

Nearly new bikes with sensible modifications. Tank, bashplate, comfortable seat , luggage rack, 12v relay socket, larger stators, spare parts kit.. etc etc

I understand most of us enjoy and prefer to do our own mods, but the question is DO YOU THINK THERE IS A MARKET for it ?

I think there is a decent market,


but,,,,,

one look at the Hard/soft, Big/Small, Travel equiped/travel light debates will quickly tell you that there is no such thing as a 'standard' overland bike.....

Even just looking at the basics, there is a plethora bikes to choose from let alone what one person considers basic, another thinks is excesive!

And then there are Motorcyclists, jeasus we can hardly agree on anything, let alone something standard!

Good question, I would have to say that there is probably not a viable market for such a bike.

The market is small enough to start, and fractures quickly IMO: Someone wants a 250, someone an 800. Someone wants shaft, someone wants chain. Someone wants FI, someone wants carb. Someone wants japanese, someone wants german, someone wants a tall bike, someone wants a short bike. Sure, if the bike was absolutely perfect in every way people might overlook their various preferences and just buy whatever you pitched at them, but it doesn't seem very likely to me.

I wasn't thinking of a bespoke bike. Not tailer made to personal whims.

Imagine you wanted to do a trip and didn't have the time, resources, desire to pick a bike and prep it.

There are plenty of people who may do just one bike trip in their lives and don't want to get involved with all the mechanics, scouring the internet for spares and upgrades.

If someone had such a business, they could have a 250, 400 and a 650 etc !!

There are always traveller bikes for sale but usually high mileage, beat up things with questionable histories.

I'm not sure I would buy an Overlanded bike unless I had to or really knew the owner. Actually, this reminds me of another thread..

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...overland-42624

Cheque book Adventuring?
 

I suspect the great majority of "big BMW's with a touratech book devoted to them" stuff is marketed and bought for appearance and image purposes and never actually sees overland mud and rock.

On that basis I am not sure there is an economically worthwhile market for the type Ted mentions. A smaller bike is not 'hardcore' enough for them!

People embarking on an 'Adventure journey' should prefer to understand their bike and would have done a fair amount of work themselves to familiarise themselves with it and practice key repair jobs while making mods for worthwhile motives rather than cosmetic ones.

Looking at some of the threads here I also suspect, for some, the planning and preparation is more important than the journey itself, which is then an anti-climax and disappointment.

I agree.... people SHOULD , but does everyone ?? I think probably not.

I don't think there is a market to those who buy the £15,000 large tourers, as you say.. Many just want the look... But, to someone doing their first trip, completely new to bikes and overlanding and just wants to get on with it... There could be !

I don't think anyone is going to make a fortune out of this.. Maybe someone with some cash to spend on a few bikes and some freetime to prep them and take a risk with the resale.

I might have a go myself in the near future...

Sounds like you're pondering something that's exactly the opposite of Touratech's business model. They supply expensive aftermarket parts intended to improve a bikes ability to cope with the rigors of touring or overlanding but only a small percentage of them are actually used as intended. As such (I'd guess) most purchasers are happy with the way the bits perform as they never get tested to the limit.

You're proposing putting together bikes that actually will get to be pushed to their limits and you're going to have to source any add on bits as cheaply as possible to keep the prep costs within bounds. That way lies loads of complaints.

It's one thing if your diy rack / panniers snaps in the middle of Mongolia, taking the subframe with it, that's down to your faulty welding and maybe you should finish the evening classes next time, but if it came from TedCo Overlanding Prep Ltd you're going to have to make sure it's strong enough to cope with being winched out of a river in the Congo.

I don't think I understood your original question...I thought you meant for a manufacturer. If you mean that you would buy existing bikes and make them "overland ready", I think there might be some market, but margins would probably be rather thin. That said, if you have machining skills and could make your own bash plates, pannier racks, etc., instead of buying them from third parties, maybe it could work...

Agreed !! Although I think home welding is a lot stronger than some of the crap "overland" stuff you see hawked by some companies. Iv seen a lot of the TT stuff close up and used it. It's not always well made. My Metal mules cost more than my current bike and they bent like a cheap chinese deckchair.

Im just playing with the idea at the moment. Maybe the idea would be to actually source everything and put the whole thing together in a "Ready to go" package than actually weld and fettle every bike.

I dunno... I think I might buy a low mileage bike and just prep it as cheaply as possible and see if I at least break even with it on a sale.. If not, i'll just ride it myself :smartass:

Have you considered hiring them instead? My bike was bought from here as an ex-overlander, fully prepped and having been ridden to Cape town before I bought it - so there are some who will buy a bike ready to roll!

Perhaps there is a market in producing a bike you think will fit the bill and hiring it for a trip. I know some of the bigger guided firms provide bikes for hire, so I suspect there is a market for it. However, if you were to provide a ready prepped bike ready to roll in the States, or Argentina for example then perhaps you would have a real market. "Pitch up with your gear and ride" would appeal to those who can't be bothered with shipping etc.

Certainly works for places like NZ...

TT, Tesch, more recently Metal Mule, they all start along the lines Ted is thinking about. Then, either they get the customer from **** who expects "waterproof" to mean "can be used as a flotation device in a force ten" or the accountants start suggesting rationalised production. It then suddenly occurs to the people running the company that they get a lot more business and a lot less hassle from play riders. The play riders only complaint is usually price and having to wait for the item to be made. Suddenly, top class welding gives way to laser etched logos :(.

I think the UK supports maybe half a dozen 4x4 safari preparation companys? I think the bike market is smaller still.

Personally, I'd be looking for a niche. GSerise Urals or Triumph Scramblers for the guys who don't want an R1200GS or a thirty year old R80. Re-work AT's or XT's to factory fresh condition. Design a way to fit a kick start to modern bikes or a bibbe mousse that works on the motorway. I think there are chances for the right people with the right skills, but not for guys who want their hobby to be their work and don't have anything else to offer.

Andy

Yes! That's exactly what I did when I bought the KTM LC4 400 Mil.

Aaah... No! I fitted 20mm bar raisers...

Considering how much interest the ex military KTMs get I would have to say that yes there would be a market,how big a market is questionable but a lot of people would like a ready to go overlander/offroader.

I wouldn't sink too much money into this Ted.

Most serious over-landers prefer to do the work themselves and the amount of time a decent prep would take compared to what people will pay means you would end up paying your self about 30 pence per hour to do a decent job...

It only really amounts to bolting a few bits on and perhaps some simple wiring - whose gonna pay big bucks for that?

I posted my idea on your other thread Ted. Good idea. Great minds think alike! :oops2:

Check out my comments about this: (my agent will be contacting you for my 5% fee!) See post 21.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...4-2#post296272


I don't think pre made bikes would work. And would require a huge capital up front for you with no buy guarantee .... unless you got pre-orders.
But you could work with riders to help them find a suitable bike, then build to suit based on budget, requirements. You can make a bit on everything they order for the bike plus charge for custom work and set up. See my other post, details this. Good luck ... I think you are on the right track!

I think it'd be a great idea... pick up some DR's or DRZ's and do some home fabracation to strengthen the sub frame, build racks, setup suspension for a real life human, and fix known issues...

I'd love to do it on a one or two bike at a time buisness...


I wouldn't expect an actual return on my time though... like say buy a DRZ for 2500 and sell it for a 1-2k profit (probably wouldn't spend more than 500 on parts after you get two or three done)

for me the hobby of moding it would be enough... keep me busy doing the things I love, adding $ to the trip fund...

I wouldn't do it on an order basis though... just build a bike put it up for sale, then once I get a buyer... then adjust the suspension and anything else they want.

I love the idea... it's got me thinking.... LOL

This is an area i have often though CCM should get into, given the sucess of the flat track dr400 based bikes for example.
Given their current business model seems largely based around specials using the 400 and previously the dr650 engine you'd think this was right down their street.
Think about it, a chioce of 400 or 650 single, proper upgraded suspension, fractory (reliable) electrics, add in a purpose built subframe/luggage mount and then the usual bolt ons (tank, bash plate etc) with a quality build and robert is your mothers brother.

The idea of buying a Ted prepped bike might have its attractions but there might be an oppertunity to link with someone like adventure spec to provide a complete package using their products as well as your own.

I like that...


I think you can go two ways with this...

You can keep it small (like I was thinking in my previous post) no more than a bike or two at a time, buy cheep, restore and build to a solid spec, offer it for sale at no more than 1-2k profit, once sold set the suspension to the rider and add any last min modifications custom to the new owner...

Pros:
- nice hobby that also adds money to the trip fund
- not a whole lot of over head if your fabricating everything yourself.
- could make decent $ if you really look for good prices..
- can take your time work at your pace
- low bike cost should move them pretty easy

Cons:
- not gonna make you rich
- easy to fall be hind because of above
- not built from scratch for a customer so not exactly what customer wants every time.
- need to be thrifty to keep prices low


or

you could try to tie in with a fab company that makes bolt on parts for the bike... like Adventure spec, and open your own shop. Do maintenance and fab on peoples bikes for them, help setup their bikes to their wants/needs, and offer "turn key" Overland bikes.

Pros:
- should be able to make a living
- get your name out there a bit more
- could be more adventuresome with the kitted bikes you offer
- if done right and priced right, you'd have the market cornered for this (judging from ADVrider, a decent sized market when you include mods to riders existing bikes)

cons:
- with all the people wanting to "kit" their own bikes, you may not have time to build the "turn key" models
- if you offer "turn key" models you'll need pre determined sizes, and options for pricing purposes.
- due to the time requirements to build the bike, pulling you away from what would probably be paying your bills (aka the maintenance and parts selling) you'd have to charge labor which would drive the cost of the bike up.
- demand for fabs and not turn key bikes could drive prices up and into the "over priced" as well as push your delivery times out to where only the Uber rich and patient are your customers

I pulled this post from another thread as I think it is on topic here and didn't wanna pull the other thread further off topic with my reply.


Yes I agree, with the US economy I think trying to open a shop like this wouldn't work out to well unless you did every thing right... and honestly... who does.

Hopefully in a few years that will change.


as you said, the market for WORLD traveling bikes isn't in the US. not for a big shop anyways. like you said... this is Harley World, land of Interstates and paved everything. were if people (like me) do not own another vehicle besides a motorcycle are basically considered insane.(quite rightly in my case:wacko:)

I think if you tried, what will end up happening, is you'll end up doing a lot of maintenance and fabricating on bikes that will only ever see the interstate or an occasional holiday to Canada or Alaska. and you'd have to be based in a "hot spot" which means probably Seattle or *shudder* L.A. to make a decent living at it. ?c?

There's definitely some people being taken for a ride by the folks at TT! I've seen a lot of 'fully prepped' Beemers that don't look like they're actually going anywhere. I think the market for 'ready to ride' overlanding bikes for clients that haven't done any proper research is tied up (I know, lets get a GS1150 adventure!). Once you are talking about people that have done the research all the factors already mentioned come into play and the business model for supply would shift from off-the-peg to tailored bikes. There might still be a gap for prepping other peoples bikes for them (wouldn't want someone else touhing my electrics or mechanics personally)?

My favourite overlanding item I have seen mis-sold is the sidestand switch protector plate in the TT catalogue. It features the words 'A broken sidestand switch will stop your engine running and end your trip, you need an [overpriced piece of pointless laser cut scrap]'. It's true that a broken sidestand switch WILL stop your engine running but you don't put your hand in your pocket, just cut the switch off!!

Isn't this sorta service out there already? ...

.. E.G.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/928560359_oK4Pi-O.jpg

Overland-Solutions.com: Rally & Overland Fabrications


.

WOW !! Loads of brilliant ideas and input...

By no means do I think i'm the first person to of thought of this or even to of tried it..

I think im going to give this a go when I return from Africa. Starting with a smaller, cheap but low mileage bike and prep it with the essenstials, fabricating what I can myself and then go for a resale.

I'm not looking to make a living out of it, more of a weekend hobby, travel fund booster. I don't have the money to invest into making this a full time business venture.

I've spent years working on bikes and got all my quals so i'm confident in that respect. My metal fabrication work is still amaturish but im working on that and intending to do some schooling. I've build my own racks on my DRZ and they work great.

I might just start trying to make luggage and accessories for the popular but no out of manufacture bikes. Dommies, XT , Africa Twins.. etc etc

I also want to learn wheel building... People who can do that, earn loads of cash on the side.

I'm lucky as I have a huge double garage workshop full of tools/equipment at my mums house. Rent free :) I could do a 9-5 job or even work part time and try this venture on the side with little risk.


As for overland solutions, I think hes very talented but hugely expensive and industrial. I remember trying to call him about 15 times a couple of years ago and still didnt get any reply. Iv seen some of his racks. They are heavier than the bikes.

Well, lets see what happens in the spring.

Team Adventure!
 

Careful though a) you might invalidate some BMW small print :cool4: and b) one your "Adventure" Weekend buddies might see it and think you're being a cheapskate for not buying the lazer-cut widget in the first place...:helpsmilie:Can't have that now, can we.

Totally agree, CCM seems an ideal candidate for light travel bikes.
The 450DS in particular with a seat of 80/83cm (apparently!) and 128kg seems totally ideal. Tank fuel of 12l is too small so that bike would need some prep up: bigger fuel tank, bash plate, maybe reinforce the subframe (Depending on how much lugagge it could take) .... This bike could be the ideal mid-weight bike for overland travellers under 6 foot tall and not blinded by BMW fashion! Unless it needs ferquent servicing?

Hey Ted let's discuss when you're down in London!

Cheers,

That's true - certainly about the weight of the racks! I bought the second hand ex Chris Scott rack that Andy Pattrick was selling here a few weeks ago and I was staggered at the weight of it. The rack alone weighed close to what I would hope to get my entire luggage weight down to! Just bolting it to my XR600 will overstress the subframe.

It also cost somewhere around £1000 to build, most of which was (I suspect) his time. When I built my CCM rack it took me over 30hrs work (and that was the fifth or sixth rack I've made) but because I didn't charge myself I regarded it as cheap. How are you going to factor that in? Putting many evenings work into prepping a bike, building one-off bespoke parts etc isn't going to seem like a great idea when the new owner rides off on it and you work out that your profit margin per hour is less than minimum wage.

Now wheel building, that's different. I'll sign up for the TedCo wheelbuilding masterclass.:smartass::smartass: I've got four that need doing at the moment.

CCM certainly were aware of the overlanding market some years ago when I was building my 604 based bike. It was discussed at length on the owners group website, somewhere the factory contributed to occasionally. Whether the knowledge gained from their Paris-Dakar experience ten years ago was enough to make them run a mile who knows but a lot of their stuff had the makings of a good overlanding bike.

It was just the lack of add ons like tanks where they fell short. I was on the point of giving up with mine and buying an XT before I managed to get one of the ex P-D 23L tanks second hand. None of the other tanks I could find would fit. Most everything else I've had to make or adapt.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r.../_DSC1187b.jpg

t
 

Hey Ted - whatever happens I wish you good luck.

Me and the missus discussed this almost endlessly for nine months (how to make money out of out passion) - and we both came to the same conclusion. You can't make money, or even break even, about something that you are so closely involved in unless:

either:

a- you are a heartless ballbreaker
b - you have a great innovative idea.

Otherwise we figure, all thats going to happen is you will break your ass for an ideal.

Saying that - we've got no further, but remember lots of people who have set off chase a dream, and only the crazy-loons find it!

Good luck man :)

The chances are, you're right !

I enjoy working on bikes and making things.. As long as I don't lose money (which I don't think I will), Ill give it ago.

Free time is something I usually have plenty of as i'm always saving for travel and can't afford to go out hahahaha !

Hey Ted,

How about a more 'holistic' approach? With your experience you could have a sort of 'Adventure Motorcycling Consultancy'.

You could offer advice on getting paperwork etc. sorted, getting a bike prepped, ancilliary equipment, sourcing that equipment, fitting that equipment, and even, at the top end, buying and preparing a bike for someone. The latter could be done in conference with the customer, so even though you would be prepping the bike for them, they would feel like they were having some kind of input.

I think a lot of people love the idea of an independent trip but are intimidated by the amount of preperation - and yet don't want to go on a package tour on a rented bike.

The heavier your involvement in the work, the more of a fee you charge. You could offer a basic introductory "What's your plan?" meeting for free and go from there...

Maybe a daft idea, but there you go... :)

see I think THIS is where you should be...

doing a bike or two at a time... selling them AFTER you've done the work... chances are you'll at least be able to break even $ wise... but, especially when working on the same bike as you own, you'll have gained knowledge about the bike.

in the end... you've got a hobby that you love in tinkering with bikes, and one that my just kick a bit of cash to your travel pot. (but doubtfully will pay for it all)

I have a friend who's selling a DRZ for dirt cheap.. I may try this method out on a bike to see how it goes... :eek2:

I think there was a bloke a couple of years ago who set up an overland advice consultancy after he travelled in South America. Can't remember his name or website (I think there was some green colour on his home page...). Possibly not very memorable or successful and not much marketing as I usually have my ear pretty close to the ground. People who haven't the time or inclination to sort their own trip join a tour, IMO.

If you were to organise trips for other people in return for payment, you'll only end up leeching information from fellow HUBBers for your own monetary gain: I don't think you'd be very popular in medium and long term.

It's already been mentioned before: What's is an "overland bike"? There has been plenty of discussion on the topic elsewhere on the forum. Ask 100 people and you'll get 70 different opinions. Hence if you prep, say, a DRZ400, you'll probably be excluding 85% of your already very small potential customers. (All statistics made up: No empirical data available...:innocent:)

Cheers
Chris (off to the US on Sunday, should be packing, but on work avoidance strategy)

I appreciate the sentiment Matt but I don't think I am THAT experienced compared to some.

I've travelled Europe, South America and about to emabark accross Africa. Africa is more stress and hassel than anything I've done yet and I haven't even left yet :innocent:... I would of paid someone a £200 to hand me back a stack of paperwork and visas and instructions.

I don't think anyone would pay for consultancy when it's so readily available on the HUBB or internet. I think I would feel very cheeky selling that anyway.

Do you know about Bernard Tesch ?? The German buy who makes panniers and holds traveller meetings. He invites people to his house to talk about travelling Africa and then asks them for money. They think he was just being friendly lol.

Although I think you're right about people maybe paying for the whole package aspect.. Kind of like the package tour without all the rules and modycoddling !

Id love to have a few bikes ready to go in my workshop and always availble for sale. I don't think i want to get bogged down in paperwork and visas applications.

Does anyone remember a guy called BOZ ??? He travelled South America and tried to set up a consultancy business. Doing all the paperwork, giving you the routes, maps etc etc !

As far as I know, it fell flat on it's ass. No one thought it was worth paying for the info or paperwork. Although, I think South America isn't the right place to sell info. It's incredibly easy to travel with no carnets, visas etc etc.

You beat me to it ! I think his name was Boz.

He also wrote a book which no one seems to of ever bought or heard of. He certainly didn't try and sell it at any meetings.

That's the one. I believe he also used photos in his book for which he didn't own the copyright.

Interesting what you said about Burnt Toast. I can recall a conversation I had with an American m/c traveller about BT a long while ago (before the internet in general and the HUBB in particular was such a mine of information). After the American guy tells him all the useful stuff he needs to know about m/c travel in South America, BT says "Great, now I sell it to people who visit me"...

As far as sorting people's visas and stuff: There are agencies in the Smoke that do that already.

As far as people turning their passion into a business (mentioned earlier): From my "generation"/ friends of mine, there's at least 2 couples who seem to be running successful m/c tour businesses: Kevin and Julia of Globebusters and Rob and Dafne of Ride On Mototours

cheers Chris (still procrastinating)

The main prob with it and most of rare brands is just that: they are too rare. Can't find any on sale (2d hand). and as we would need 2 (one for me one for the husband...) - and then as you said the problem of bigger tank adn other equipment etc...

BAck to Ted idea, not everyone has the time, workshop space and talent to get their bikes ready for overlanding. Finding someone trustable, competent who could set up and equip the bikes according to owners specifications could make a small business. For us last time we had someone, but he went into higher education and now don't know where to turn to, to get our next bikes prepared. What those bikes will be, no idea yet :(
But I'd rather buy the bike and hand it over rather than buy one already made up. As someone said, each one has their own idea of what an overland bike should be.
Cheers,

Ted, I have done 5 long-distance international rides, and a multitude of intra-national rides, over the past 35 years. I am also fortunate in that my career choice has also given me many opportunities to live and work internationally for extended periods

The only modification I have made to any of my bikes has been related to luggage carrying capability, whether it was racks or pannier mounts.

Tyres, suspension, etc. ... keep it all stock as far as I am concerned - I even rode a bog standard Yamaha RD350 across 4,000kms of the Sahara with the only mod being a beefed up rack.

I suspect there is a market for what you have in my mind, but I doubt if it sufficient to make anything more than pocket money out of. As many posters above have pinted out, we - the international motorcycle travelling community - are individuals, and are the exception rather than the rule.

That is why we choose to do what we do instead of wasting our hard earned buckaroos at the 'Thistle and the Thirkin' or its equivalent. most evenings, and only dreaming of (and finding excuses why we don't) travel to pastures plus verdant.

Unfortunately, if you set out to provide a service as you have outlined, I can only see the risk of you becoming a slave to it, and becoming more of a dreamer, rather than a dedicated traveller.

Get out there and do the rides Ted, and focus on those instead of excuses to stay at home. :cool4:

Yeah.. That would probably be my plan. The punter could deliver me the bike(s) in whatever form, give me a few weeks or months with a list of what you want and I'd sort it for you.. To whatever bespoke specification. Could also do repairs, engine work etc etc.

I wouldnt be asking mega bucks...

You're probably right. But pocket money is only really what i'm after. Maybe a way to build up the travel fund so I can do the trips more frequently. Im not looking to be tied into a long term business plan. That was never the goal. I have other plans ;)

Currenly I work for 2 years and travel for 6 months. Thats a cycle iv been in for a while now. Unfortunately, 2 years is just too long. It's very hard to get a decent paying job when you're always leaving town and living in my mums spare room is getting less cool every time lol.



David Lambeth does this kind of thing too. He specialized in XT's and doesnt really market himself very well. I think its a side line as he does overland rally support.

His problem is that he is a rip off merchant. charging £1500 for overwelded scrap metal. Charging you for things he says he's doing for free etc. :thumbdown:

I don't know anything about his business though or if he's still doing bikes.

Ted
I'd be fairly careful about using the written word, even on the Internet, to rubbish somebodys business that has been built up over twenty years.

David Lambeth is still working and has done a couple of big jobs for me. He recently rebuilt my 34L and the end result is amazing. The engine on it is now an absolute peach, no question. Strong as an ox now, beautifully carburetted and smooth as a babys bum (ish - it is a single :clap:)

But I can see why he chose a career as an engineer rather than in public relations - he is not the easyist of characters to deal with but if I was doing a realy serious unsupported trip, deep into the Sahara, then I would get him to prep an XT600. He has a knowledge and experience that has been built up over 20 years and I think he is entitled to charge a rate that probably earns him above the average wage. Anyway that's all :offtopic:

But as has been said above, in all honesty, the most preparation a decent bike needs is an inline fuel filter, a support over the exhaust to keep the panniers from burning and a full tank of petrol and that's the lot. But people like playing and for loads, it seems like the preparation is more than half the fun.

Still it's not as bad as the 4x4 world - boy do you see some ridiculously overloaded Land Rovers tarted up with all sorts of crap following the locals around Morocco as the locals happily tootle round in 20 year old Toyota Corollas.

As for your business, if you are prepared to deal with BMW GS explorer wanabees, then there certainly seems to be a lot of money wasted, sorry spent in that department

I'll say it to his face. Im not rubbishing him. Just sharing experiences. There is no exageration or personal vendetta here !! I have no problems sharing personal exeriences of mine and my friends.

Crude square section luggage rack.. £10 worth of steel, probably 4-5 hours cutting and welding. £1500 !! OUTRAGEOUS

Serviced my mates Dommie and ran like a pig until the work was undone. Also "adapted" a set of TT bars for softbags and charged £700 for the welding. OUTRAGEOUS !!

I bought a shock spring off him. He said if I posted him the shock, he'd change it for free.. "nice guy" I thought.

He sent me the shock back, kept my spring and then charged me for changing it.. Only when I kicked off big time did he refund the money but wouldnt send the spring back.. DEFINATELY not what we agreed on the phone.

Not someone i'd ever do business with again or recommend... You're right. I'm going off topic here. I just get mad thinking of people being taken for a ride.

Anyway, that was 3 years ago now... Things change. I'm glad you're happy with the work. :thumbup1:

Maybe he charges that amount of money as it is the rate he needs to in order to make a living doing that stuff.....which might tell you something about the market.....

No doubt !! Maybe that's why it would probably be best done as a side line "pocket money"

There's no amount of Horlicks in the world that could make me sleep at night if I charged that :rofl:

Ted, I don't think you're off topic at all. Totally appropriate to be aware of who is out there doing this sort of stuff, what they charge and who likes them, who doesn't. But I would not go after potential competitors so directly/publicly out of the gate.

I've heard of Lambeth before, pretty well known in the UK overlanding community, no? So you risk offending potential customers (especially the ones who paid the big bucks to him) before they even know you or what you could do better, cheaper than Lambeth.

Best just quietly move forward with your plan and try to get some good feedback of your own by providing good, useful services at fair prices. I think it's a brilliant plan. (See my other post on your other thread for my details as to what all you could provide)

I'm thinking you'll need to specialize serving relative beginners who are NOT all experts (like everyone here! :rofl:) No point trying to convince guys who already have their own machine shop, own 5 bikes and have 20 years experience rebuilding engines, and have pulled a Nanson sled across the Antarctic that you are better or worse than Lambeth or Tesch or anyone. Your people are the humble beginners who are brave enough to come forward and ask for help. The good news is that there still seem to be a steady flow of punters out to travel the world on a bike. Most can't even change a spark plug or a flat.

If you're fair and do decent work that holds up ... word will get around quickly. I think you can make a few pounds and have some very happy clients .... who hopefully will pass on their experience here and elsewhere.

Fair enough, you are probably right about the consultancy - its too easy to get info off here! :)

Something that I just remebered is a friend of mine who knows a guy who buys people cars at auction for a small fee. He used to be a mechanic, I think, and really knows about cars. There are a lot of people out there who don't have the money to buy new or under warranty, but don't know much about cars. They pay this guy what is essentially a consultancy fee to buy them a car. That way there is far less chance of them getting a 'dog'. He just does it for pocket money - essentially because he likes doing it!

I know this was an issue for me when I bought my XT. It's so damn easy to clock a bike (esp. an XT!) that you've no idea what the mileage is except by looking at the condition. In the end I paid over the odds for a customer part exchange bike that was gathering dust in BMW Motoradd in Glasgow. It came gauranteed and the shop had a good rep. so I figured it was worth it to pay over the odds.

If you felt you possessed the knowledge, you could offer (as part of a range of services) a service where you accompany a customer to purchase a bike, give it a thorough check over, test ride, assess its worthiness as a tour bike. A bit like an AA car-check but with with the emphasis on adventure touring potential. Then you could fix any issues, equip. the bike with gear to the customers spec. fit the bike to them etc.

I know I would have paid someone I trusted, who had the knowledge necessary, a reasonable fee for this service. I reckon a lot of people's concern is not just that the model of bike they have chosen is right but that the specific bike they have bought is a good 'un. Nobody wants a dog that has been thrashed by some eejit when they are setting out for the third world, but many riders are not mechanics and can't tell a dog from a peach. You could possibly also offer a bit of basic mechanical instruction (tyre changes, chain tensioning, fault finding etc) on the customers own bike. That's quite hard to learn off the net and remains connected to bike preperation and not paperwork etc.

Anyway, probably another daft idea - feel free to pour scorn! ;-)

I think the point made above, about the fact that most decent bikes need virtually nil preperation, is worth keeping in mind. You could certainly fit an inline fuel filter and soft bags to an XT and ride it round the world. Having said that, how many stock bikes do you see travelling the world? ;-) I suppose the desire to add kit to a bike that probably doesn't need it is part of the bike traveller's psyche, and that is what you need to exploit! :)

I laughed at your story about Berndt Tesch. Sounds like he picked up some sales techniques on his travels!

OK !! No more DL bashing... I didn't want this thread to turn into that at all. I got carried away.

:oops2:

It's not be about my being in any type of competition with him as i'm not doing anything at the moment or near future that would even be considered so.

Anyway, moving swiftly on........

Thanks so much for your fantastic ideas and some great "reality checks". It's good to hear all your ideas and feedback. It's been great preliminary research.

I have a few ideas about turning a hobby into an income (Full & Part time), this idea just being one of them or maybe just a part of a bigger picture.

My ultimate dream is setting up a place in South America very much like Dakar Motos (but far enough not to be in competition). I've got a few contacts and location ideas.

Ride safe guys !!

Hey Mate:eek3:
Take care, I’m watching you!!! :detective:
Mucho cuidadito, or you will know a truth angry Argie…. :2guns:

Saludos

I have also long thought CCM should get into making adventure bikes ... they have used the DRZ400 engine and Rotax 650 engine in the past ... and they are both ideal for adventure bikes.

Shall we put together a petition to go to CCM?

hahahaha I don't think you have much to worry about ! :Beach:

Wouldnt be such a bad idea.. Even Triumph are on the scene now. They have 2 Adventure bikes on the way and to be unvailed in September/October.

OOOOOO how I would love Triumph to make a decent "PROPER" adventure bike. Exciting stuff.