DIY adventure motorcycling - thoughts?
 

Hi guys and gals,

I'm writing an article for Outrider Journal (the rather luvverly new adventure motorcycling mag in the US) about the DIY approach to motorcycle travel, something that seems to be laregly a British/Euro phenonemon (rather than the US).

Obviously, being married to DIY AM hero, Austin Vince (!), I have his take on things but I would be interested to hear anyone elses opinion on the subject. From talking/emailing with various travellers lately I'm getting the feeling that there's a growing movement towards keeping things small and simple - 'less is more', 'back to basics', 'make do and mend' (and any other useful sayings I can think of).

Has anyone else noticed this? Is it significant? What is the driving force behind it? Is it just a reaction to consumerism, is it related to the economic situation, is it a symptom of a wider social movement towards simple living?

Woah... almost got philosophical for a moment there...
Anyway, if you have a moment, do give your beards a stroke and let me know your innermost thoughts...

See you at Lumb Farm I hope!
Lois

Lois, I don't know what the letters "DIY" stand for in this context. "Do It Yourself" in the States refers to accomplishing something without substantial aid from professionals, e.g., a Do It Yourself re-roofing project on the house, a Do It Yourself legal process without paid help from lawyers.....

So what's the adventure motorcycling version? Am I a DIY adventure motorcyclist if I change my own oil? If I don't have sponsors (*gasp*) or a wealthy spouse? Or maybe if I fund my motorcycle journey using the money I saved on my DIY re-roof and divorce?

Thanks for any clarification.

Mark

I'm not sure if there is a movement like that. To me there are still the same debates about which ali pannier etc. Which laptop and which kermit chair to chuck on the back of a 300kg Adv bike. :innocent:beer

DIY - a definition
 

Sorry for any confusion.

DIY does technically stand for 'Do It Yourself' but here in the UK it has also come to define a creative ethos - one that came out of the punk era of the mid/late 70s and referred to anything that was grass roots, independently produced, often amateur, self funded, and not reliant on a corporation - ie. photocopied fanzines, home recording, small pressings of records or books etc.

So I guess my query refers to that ethos being applied to motorcycle travel - making your own luggage, keeping things cheap, small, secondhand etc.

Hope that makes sense.
Lois

I think theres some truth in what Lois is saying...

My take is that Adventuer biking EXPLODED in popularity over the naughties..With E&C and all the manufacturers jumping on the band wagon with them, there was a lot of new interest.

That led to a lot of newbies all at once (me included).... Just look to how the Riply meeting increased in numbers ???

Well, what do newbies do ?? They buy all the stuff they think they will need. Expensive aluminium boxes, TT electric bum fluff removers, titanium lazer etched soap dishes etc..

All the stuff that any adventurer will SURELY need to survive yeah !! :innocent:

Well, all these newbies got out there and did some trips (me included) and realised how much money we'd wasted on pointless crap. The vast majority realised that you don't need to spend ££££££££££££ on kit to ride around the world.

I think it's a case of experience now... Where you still get a decent amount of newbies coming in and swallowing up the sales brochures, I don't think there is that explosion of novice adventure bikers with open wallets that there was even five years ago.. People got smart !!!

OF COURSE the global recession is also to blame. There just isn't that spare cash for toys anymore. Many of my riding buddies have downgraded their bikes and put those "Bike bling" toys on indefiate hold. That goes for me too. You can't justify spending £300 on a new GPS when your kids need new shoes for School.

Maybe we can put it down to Education too. With more and more forums full of experienced overland bikers showing people "HOW TO" .

You're always going to get that bling bling side of it who will continue to buy the top end metal boxes and £1000 riding suits. If it keeps them happy and the market alive, ces't la vi...

I consider 2 parts to DIY:
1. bike & equipment
2. trip organisation

For equipment prep, I liked the model someone described on another forum about 4x4 travelling: Have a reliable base vehicle, put your rucksack in the back and your ready. In essence, the reliability is inversely proportional to the number of modifications to the base vehicle and you don't need much to live on the road. There are extremes both ways - from drilling holes in your toothbrush to carrying spare spares just in case.

As for trip organisation i think it comes to personality, some people like the packaged adventure holiday, others prefer a day-by-day plan before they leave and others wake up in the morning and feel like heading west. Your preference usually depends on personality (exposure to unknown), budget and amount of time available for the trip.

Your budget does not stop you doing anything, however a larger budget allows a certain amount of comfort...

Choice of bike
 

It used to be for me just looking at what bike was coming around the corner I could sort of tell what rider it was to be for if it was say..... a 80's-90's single (XT/DR) or twin (AT/R80) then that'd be the more likely DIY guy, for if the bike broke then there was a reasonable chance he could repair (or bodge) the bike themself. The sort of guy who'd choose the bike for that very reason.
If it were a brand new BMW 1200GS (an example-not a dig) then the chances of doing DIY repairs are slim as new technology comes about in bikes. Necessating the need for expensive tooling, a stocked up dealership or a big sense of faith the bike will not fail.
So I would think the more mechanically minded and those willing and not too scared to open an engine would be the bigger DIY enthusiasts.

Also, from those whom I have met, I find the really enthusiastic DIY enthusiasts are either skint, bored or making a point. (Dear Austin was at least 2 of them if not 3..! LOL) Remember the BSM driving school advertisement..? "You wouldn't ask your cousin how to split an atom?" Well, I wouldn't fabricate my own pannier racks from 50p's worth of scrap shelving, ammo boxes and dodgy welding, coming out of my garage like Wesley Pegden (Last of summer wine mechanic) wearing a triumphant smile cos I know it'd be shite, no matter how much I'd saved.
When I was in the army, we were issued with bog standard, basic equipment. It was cheaply made and free, costing only a signature, did the job but was crap. Any idiot can be cold, wet and miserable and if you wanted to be warm and dry you went out and bought the right gear for the job. A soldier with good kit was called 'Gucci'! a pisstake but he was dry and smiling. Same with biking. If I'm cold, wet and miserable then I'm not enjoying the ride which the whole point is to enjoy the ride. (Money is a shite insulator)

Personally, I tried to acheive both. My chariot was something I could work on, an '03 XT600e and I purchased the rest off t'internet! Cos they were made by people who knew what they were doing. Is that DIY? I try to be more clued up than 'Blinged up!' nowadays as time and experience has accrued.



I certainly hope Outrider Journal goes well, I can't have done too bad as I made front cover, 1st issue and the story 'Into Africa' an issue I will frame! LOL!


http://http://www.google.co.uk/imgre...AcWd4QaCtOilAw http://http://www.google.co.uk/imgre...AcWd4QaCtOilAw

I think there is a wee bit of a backlash amongst the AT community. I was at Austin's recent passionate talk in Edinburgh about DIY motorcycle touring and while there were a few slightly embarrased looking people who'd clearly bought the shop, most of the people there seemed to agree with his viewpoint that small, cheap and homemade is better than simply bought off t'internet.

I think (and I know this might be contraversial!) that this might in part be due to E&C (much as I'd like it not to be!). There are an awful lot of of 1200GS riders out there in their BMW 'Twat-Suits' (Austin's term, not mine!) who just ride their bike in a perfectly pleasant, ordinary biker sort of way, going to the places ordinary bikers go and having a great time while they do it.

Perhaps the upsurge in popularity for DIY biking is a reaction from those who consider themselves to be 'proper' adventure bikers to mark themselves as different from Johnny Weekender? When you see a chap (or lass) on a GS or a KTM Adv, you think - 'There's someone who's bought an adventure bike'. When you see someone on a ratty old DRZ with his underpants sticking out of his homemade luggage and handguards made out of plastic milk bottles - you think 'Ooh, I wonder where he's been!'

The 'DIY' adventure touring community perhaps seems more 'real' to people because it is so divorced from the E&C, support vehicles, sat phones, sponshorship type riding that the world at large thinks what adventure motorcycling is.

Of course, it could just be because making things is fun.

Matt :)

I'd say that DIY adventure has always been the 'norm', my own personal angle on it would be "why the rise in 'off-the-shelf' adventure packages/holidays". You can spend $150,000 dollars on an organised round the world trip now, or $40,000 on a Ushaia - Vancouver jaunt plus numerous 'adventure' packages round africa and the med etc

I always thought that the 'spirit of adventure' was throwing yourself into the unknown, whether its diving into an unexplored cave system, backcountry skiing, climbing new routes or motorcycling into strange lands. To go into something with little expectations of what you will find means your expectations cannot be broken or disappointed....
As such it strikes me that if you have a guide and an itinerary (and you have paid a lot of cash) then it's less of a ture 'adventure' and more of a great experience.
That's not to say it takes less 'balls' to do an off-the-shelf tour because peoples comfort zones are entirely personal and relative. Some people would consider going to a supermarket they don't usually use slightly unnerving and some people need to fly a wingsuit down the side of a mountain.

The presence of sponsors is a slightly moot point - I need some backing because I have a minimum wage job - Domino's sold me an old delivery bike for 200 quid to help me out - does that mean that when I turn it into a desert racer and cross the Sahara I am a corporate sell-out?

We definitely risk a lot of inverted snobbery creeping in here!

I have been riding for 30+ years and got only in 2006 into dual-sport and adventure riding. Here is my take:

Adventure bike travel or let's stick to "DIY" travel has evolved like everything else. Just an example: The skilled motorcyclist/traveler had to come up with solutions for luggage and build his/her own lockable aluminum box. Commercial businesses recognized a need with potential for volume. Before you know it, you could buy lockable aluminum boxes in various designs.

Once it caught on, they were building also little aluminum covers here and little aluminum "dodads" there. ...useful? Probably not. When I look at some commercial motorcycle accessory catalogs, I find now that maybe 10-20% of what they are offering might be useful to me, my kind of travel, covering my kind of needs.

And, don't get me wrong, I am the first one to admit that I fell into that trap as well when I started with my dual-sport/adventure riding "career" in 2006 :blush:.

I am now prepping for my first RTW motorcycle trip and realize that my needs have completely changed. First and foremost, I want reliability, simplicity and as little as possible. However, I am willing to spend money on good quality gear for man and machine.

If I had to scrape by to make the trip work out, I would not do it. I have had my share of world travel for business and pleasure over the past 25 years. I would want a certain quality and level of comfort, which in my case is good quality tent, -sleeping mat, -sleeping bag, riding gear etc, ...you'll get the idea.

Also, while I have the skills and tools, I have no interest in building my own aluminum boxes. I rather spend my time with route planing, contacting people ahead of time etc. Again, to achieve a certain comfort while doing the trip. That is what works for me ...beer

Sorry, Henry, definately did not intend to suggest you were a corporate sell-out! ;)

Matt :)

PS - I always find going the supermarket unnerving!

I dont like the 'instant biker, just add money' look. Since 'Adventure' motorcycling has gotten relatively popular, companies have huge ranges of expensive stuff to make you look the part. Problem is, the people who buy every little bit of adventure motorcycle products, most times dont ride around the world. Most times there bikes never see mud. And what the've spent on the bike and kit could have got them around the world on a ,shall we say, cheaper bike. Some might utter the word 'Posers'. Sorry, its just my opinion.:innocent:

There seems to be a common assumption that home-made is by definition not as good as bought off the shelf and that comfort is a factor of having paid top-whack for an off the shelf piece of kit. This is not necessarily true.

IMHO a piece of kit made expertly by someone in their garage is likely to be much better than something made to profit/sales tolerances in a factory by someone who doesn't actually have to rely on that piece of kit for months on end.

For example - the powder coated steel rear rack and peli case top box that I made for my XT is IMHO, the best top box for my needs that I have ever seen by several country miles. I quite simply couldn't have bought something as good off t'internet. This is just one example - I bet anyone who makes their own kit could give plenty of similar examples.

Matt :)

I didn't think I was an intended target for that one, just making a point (I forget which one though...)

Of course pigeon-holing people who buy a GS and a full set of touratech gubbins is fine by me! But I guess they are just doing what they think is the correct way to go about it, due to media, social conditioning, (dare I say them being a twat) etc so can't be blamed for it:innocent:

We might not like to way adventure motorcycling is becoming more of a corporate enterprise but this is in itself making more opportunities for people to make a living out of it - imagine haow succesful Mondo Enduro would have been if it was done now rather than when it was a real niche market!

well the whole thing is a personal decision, finding your self and change some parts of your live.... may our 40+ generation is just feed up with being pushed around for so long and like to "live"...

as the Hogfather is putting it:
PEOPLE'S WHOLE LIVES DO PASS IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES BEFORE THEY DIE.
THE PROCESS IS CALLED 'LIVING'.

and by that...
I have to recall "Bill Hicks" who I think brought it up to point... like this:

“The world is like a ride in an amusement park.
And when you choose to go on it, you think it’s real because that’s how powerful our minds are.
And the ride goes up and down and round and round.
It has thrills and chills and it’s very brightly coloured and it’s very loud and it’s fun, for a while.
Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question, is this real, or is this just a ride?
And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say,
“Hey – don’t worry, don’t be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride…”
And we… kill those people.
“We have a lot invested in this ride.
Shut him up.
Look at my furrows of worry.
Look at my big bank account and my family.
This just has to be real.”
Just a ride.
But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that?
And let the demons run amok.
But it doesn’t matter because: It’s just a ride.
And we can change it any time we want.
It’s only a choice.
No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money.
A choice, right now, between fear and love.
The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off.
The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.
Here’s what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride.
Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defences each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.”

I think there is too much going on to put it all together.

I'll get flamed, but IMHO, buy a certain large motorcycle, the contents of certain catalogues and a copy of Chris Scott/Ted Simon/Lois on the.... to read on the plane before you pick up the hired bike for the organised tour is, by definition, a holiday/hobby. The fact that this has been labelled "Adventure Riding" has produced a back lash/counter culture.

The manufacturers have seen a massive band wagon and jumped on it. Certain must have brands now produce what I will charitably called road touring kit. If you have a real need for some items you still can't buy them. I made my own sidecar body, copied from what the Australians are doing because I really can't live with a Ural. No one will sell me something that'll do the Elefant rally as a five day blast.

The "counter culture" has caused thinking. I was a mobile TT advert for a good few years. My excuse is that this was pre-internet and as a new rider I only had the AMHB. Learning that you can ride a Harley to Mongolia and meeting people who have ridden Enfields RTW encouraged putting Knobblies on the Bonneville as a way of having my cake and eating it (the wife won't let me have a Tenere as well and I can't see us doing two up rides on a KTM, so the Bonneville stays). If you want a something away from what you'll see on ADVrider you end up making.

The net had also brought up small fabricators. Ten years ago there was simply no way to find the sort of chap who'd make you a long range tank for a Bonneville, it was plastic cans or sell a Kidney to buy a bike listed in that catalogue.

I'm surprised this is seen as a European thing though. The choice of bikes in the US is more limited and the small companies will surely be more ino Harleys? In Germany with the TUV and the likes, it must be harder to make something that just pick up a catalogue. Maybe the UK and US are just more noticable as kicking back against their Sportsbike/Cruiser culture amongst those who like shopping?

Andy

Adventure means "to see what happens"
Adventure arranged by sombody else, with an organised itinery is never going to be as big an adventure as figuring it out yourself.
Daring to go on something that is not acknowledged to be the most reliable, most perfectly suitable and kitted out bike, is always going to be more of an adveture also.
To some, going on something that is not "the best available", is unacceptable. Those of us who cannot afford to or,choose not to, spend huge money on some great bike, often also enjoy the added degree of adventure that our "unsuitable" choice of bike brings with it.

What is the deffinition of 'Adventure Motorcycling'? I can't afford months off work and the financial outlay to venture far.

I tend to go for short (4 or 5 day) breaks to mainland Europe from here in the UK. All of them are an 'adventure' - sure there's no off roading, no political instability to worry about, no corrupt boarder officals to bribe - some of you may consider this real adventure, but for us humble gals/guys without the resources to globe trot, the thrill of getting a few nights camping and meeting up on the road with like minded folks can also satisfy the urge to travel.

I think the main difference is that the travelers have become more narrow-minded and someone makes a lot of noise to prove various things.
If you go to remote places things are like they used to be.

The big elephant in the room is of course the Internet

I did a UK to Cape Town trip in 1995 and it was just about the last of the pre Internet era trips

We went to the house of one dude who'd done the trip on a R80gs a few years previously and I read 1 article in Bike magazine. That was our research

We knew absolutely cock all before we left, no GPS, no mobile phone, Poste Restante letters, not a clue about anything before we left, just some maps and a compass pointing south. I do feel as if it was quite an adventure for me and my girlfriend.

Whilst everybodys idea of Adventure is different, the preponderance of websites makes it very difficult to go somewhere where one has resisted the urge to research it extensively on the net beforehand

And I think that takes a lot of the DIY out of it

But Adventure Motorcycling is just like every single other hobby/pastime - all life is there. Some berk spending £14000 on a 1200GS Adventure BMW and then finding that the weight limits the opportunity for exploring offroad isn't gonna stop anyone having a good time on a 34L XT600 (the point at which Adventure Motorcycles reached their zenith incidentally)

I'm sure this will be a lively topic!

I think there are both DIY'ers and um the other ones out there. Not sure if there is a surge of either side, more different strokes for different folks. On our way to Nepal we met up with both types. I wonder if the two camps don't split along the classic/romantic lines?

From my own tendancies I prefer DIY for several reasons. Firstly its a stubborn self reliance thing - I was never great at delegating something which I know I could do myself. This of course leads to a complete lack of time :oops2:

Its a nice (and simultanaously petrifying) feeling to be in another country far away from home sitting astride a bike you setup yourself. Knowing it inside out is also invaluable if (when?) it goes wrong. Not least of all is the money aspect - I'd sooner have another 2 months travel than a set of factory made panniers.

In Iran we had the realisation that the perfect travel bike would be a Honda CG125 (clone) with carpet bag panniers. Light, reliable, simple, economical, cheap and doesn't attract any unwanted attention.

Thats not to say I don't have my little weaknesses, that little multifuel stove was just too tempting...

N

Adventure Motorcycling is an inner journey
 

The essence of AM for me is rooted in psychology

I think in the western world we have things very easy and there is no real challenge in surviving day to day by and large. There is little challenge in the 9-5 way of life and to make matters worse there is little purpose other than to make money.

We were brought up with the attitude of working hard and deferring one's enjoyment until retirement. In recent years people are discovering the fundamental error of this as their retirement funds are taken by politicians and financiers.

It is my belief that modern society has developed into a nanny state and the number of pointless rules and regulations are turning us into robots or simply labour units for exploitation. Our ability to be responsible is being eroded and along with it our sense of individuality. Some of us are not comfortable with this and intuitively know something is wrong. I believe that adventure motorcycling is a manifestation of this disatisfaction.

AM allows us to remove ourselves from this 'comfortably numb' environment and wake us our senses. It provides unknowable challenges in alien environments that permits us to get some real measure of ourselves.

Fear of the unknown is a huge factor and one that stops many people getting underway.

it is understandable that we want to carry as much stuff as we can in order to deal with every possible situation. More gear, less fear. However, I believe that you get less from your trip when you bring more insulation (and I include money and insurance in this).

Those who have been out there and done it, all say that you don't need all this stuff, but hey ho, some things you have to learn for yourself.

To my mind the DIY'er is a person who strives to develop their abily to overcome all obstacles through their own skills, knowledge and judgement.
And like modern day Francis of Assisi's they rely on help from strangers when they are in trouble. This is undoubtly one of the hardest things for us westerns to do because of our egos.

AM is not unlike a rite of passage that enables us to know ourselves better. It sharpens our senses and provides us with a better understanding of the world we live in and the other people sharing our planet.

We live our lives rather than merely existing in someone else's.

This is a sentiment I can understand, but DIY on kit is great if you have the time or skills. Sometimes though, and especially where you have neither, you have to accept that you're going to have to pay to get your bike and yourself ready. I work long hours in the hope that in two years time I can do my own trip. I've never been much good at making stuff, and as I'm now into my 50s, I'd be surprised if that changed overnight :( In the meantime I can only plod away at getting both of us ready.

When does one become an adventure traveller/motorcyclist? What are the qualifications?

A few weeks ago I set out from Newcastle upon Tyne and rode 1045 miles over 6 days. It wasn't that far in terms of riders on this Forum, the duration of my trip wasn't that long either, and I didn't even get out of the country. However, for me, who until then only gone on weekend trips to one place and returned, it was the first time I went self sufficient for an "indeterminate time" (I could have stayed away longer were it not for work), I moved at least 100 miles almost every day, I stopped en-route for some of my meals, and spent at least one night under canvas, having taken all that I would need to have camped for a few weeks.

I accept that in terms used by many on this forum, it was peanuts, but, it was a great adventure to me, and has given me some good lessons for when I make my own big trip. And if I really want to cheer myself up :innocent: I just remember that in those 6 days, and with my trip estimated to take one year, so I spent one 50th of that on the road, and I rode about one 50th of my target mileage :clap:

Nicely said. Adventure is a bar set by the individual, not by society.

Before anyone gets cocksure about who does and who doesn't qualify as 'adventurous', they should remember there's very few of us who have done anything that plenty of people haven't done before. And there will always be people who make us look like lightweights!

See:

Fridtjof Nansen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:)

Well, what a fantastic range of responses here!
Have read hardly anything I'd disagree with, and don't really know where to turn now.

Other than, yes, for Africa, I did FAR too much planning and preparation and took TOO much stuff.
I don't think I'd ever do a 'package organised' tour, but think myself a bit lucky that I had a career as an engineer, so feel no need of such a package. Others may not find themselves in that situation and need an 'escort' or 'backup'. But so what?

On that African trip I did a lot of 'people watching' (it was a slow trip compared to many I read about here). And I found, wherever you go on an 'adventure journey', you meet lots of ordinary local people who are also doing journeys, along the same roads and routes that you are travelling. And to them, it's all workaday routine, how they earn their livelihood. Many of them use simple small motorbikes, Chinese or Japanese, or bicycles, and carry more on them than you'd ever see a car carrying in the west.

So after about 9 months, with another 4 to go, I slowly came to the conclusion, this isn't an adventure at all. I was just mimicking, albeit for longer distances, what many local people do in the places I was travelling through.
But I had much greater freedom than them. I could stop as and when I pleased, go different places as I pleased, buy daily stuff in stalls and shops without worrying if I could afford it. Really, it was the ordinary African people I was meeting who were having the adventure in their lives, not me. I was just travelling, as slowly as I could, through their lands, experiencing through meeting them what an adventure it was to live their everyday lives in these places. Just an observer.

That's the conclusion I'm slowly coming to, although I'm still trying to work out what it really all means.
That is, to experience the adventure that people outside of 'the west' have in their lives, while I ride through, on 21st century machinery, with space-age tent, too many spares, being able to afford as much petrol, food and water as I could possibly want, and a piece of paper that flies me straight out if I fall to some tricky local disease.

Yes, I'll add to that, Cherry-Garrard's "The Worst Journey In The World", which I read in my 20s. (Still in paperback). It left me realising that for ordinary folk like me, the best we can probably do, is go "adventure chasing", in whatever way, and enjoy all it has to offer!

There are so many examples of DIY
 

That was my thoughts Matt while reading through this thread; for another example anyone could do a lot worse than read "a short walk in the Hindu Kush" by Eric Newby (it is not just about walking).

I live in the USA, and am taking of on one of those adventure trips on a small, cheap bike with a $20 tent and ruffle on the back. From the people that I speak with, most want a bigger bike with all the kit. They will also (probably) never actually leave the country. Its similar to everyone buying big SUVs or trucks with knobbie tiresto go buy groceries.

It seems most Americans who are thinking about small bikes have already gone on a long adventure trip or had a serious open minded chat withsomeone who has. Sadly we are not always open minded. And we like big bikes.

Given what I saw at Overland expo, big bikes with shiny stuff as an industry is doing quite well. I have friends who are setting their bikes up to look just look the pictures in the magazines. They also have no intention of actual adventure travel, or even off roading.

Two brief stories - remember that couple after the last session Sunday?

As I was packing the twoGS riders next to me were complaining a) the expo onlyseemed concerned with "romantic trips," they had been interested in 2 or 3 week roadtrips in the USA, and b) discussing whether they should stop right away towash thedust off their bikes or if they should wait until the next day when they got home.

hello
 

Hi Lois,
great question. I can tell you that for me doing things myself are a way to balance the ready made- throw away lifestyle in which I feel forced to live in. In other words I believe that there is an inner push to keep my brain-manual connections alive. I enjoy figuring things out and then fixing them. I think in a world overloaded with stuff and information readily available at any moment and low cost one might feel less and less useful by subscribing to the trend of mass consumption of cheap and throw away goods. I just like to know I can make things last and more importantly that I know how to figure how to do so.
Anyways, my two cents.
Where is the magazine available, I haven't heard of it!

Hi Lois,

In my humble opinion, many hobbies or activities go through these oscillations.

Technology pushes the boundaries, initially making things better but then eventually excess technology takes you away from the essential core of the activity (which is probably what drew you to it in the first place).

This is true in activities ranging from backpacking to climbing to paddling to adventure motorcycling.

However, the pressure from technology is an ongoing issue and will likely never go away as companies have money to make and frankly most consumers like new gadgets.

Within these broad trends, are micro trends where small groups of enthusiasts try to fight the wave and get back to basics.

Usually these folks are older, more experienced, and importantly remember a time when it was more basic.

So I would think that "back to basics" is really just a point in time in the lifecyle of some motorcyclists and travellers. For the vast majority of adventure tourers, they will likely never get to that stage.

At times though, there will be greater awareness and dialogue on the issue, and it seems that now is one of those times. This is a good thing, but if it was really a movement, then we would all be switching to pedal bikes:)

Happy writing and riding.

For those asking "What's Adventure Motorcyling" how about some possibly twisted logic?

When I go on my holidays I go on my bike/outfit. I say "No I can't go to X on Y, I'm on holiday". When people ask me where I'm going and it used to be East Germany on an MZ, Morocco on the BMW, Nordcapp in the snow, the responses that didn't include the phrase "****ing stupid" would often claim this was "adventurous". I am a total coward and don't do anything that doesn't involve a G&T at the end of the day and a proper breakfast, so this response sort of went over my head. When I turned up at the ferry there would be blokes on sportsbikes going to the GP at Assen, people on Wings going to the Italian lakes for a month, Harleys going to a BBQ in Calais and so forth. The fact we all had luggage made it touring in the terminology of the day.

Given that work, cash family and so forth allow I'll still chuck luggage on my bike, take a couple of weeks holiday and ride as far as I want. I really don't see what's changed. I take a Motorcycle Touring Holiday. If I win the lottery I'll take a really long motorcycle tour. The fact that when I hit sand I carry on while fellow tourers on their Goldwings maybe turn back I guess does make a difference, but we each go to our comfort zones limit.

I think the term Adventure Motorcyling is Chris Scotts doing. The title got people like me to buy the book (and learn a lot) because we expected something more than a list of B&B's in the Black Forest.

It's been changed though. Adventure Motorcycle has become a class of bike like Sportsbike and Cruiser. You won't win the TT on a showroom Honda Fireplace. You'll get laughed at if you enter your 2011 Custom Dyna Badboy Glide in a show and probably thumped if you think you bought the right to call Hells Angels "bro" or something. Likewise we have all these BMW's and KTM's that never go further than a coffee shop claiming the Adventure Rider "class" because they are not sportsbikes or cruisers or mega tourers. If your accountant loves his Wideglide and the kid who sells you your mobile phone wants to dress like Rossi, that's up to them, it's their life to enjoy, I'm not having a go. The Adventure riders are still new.

I think it'll pass over. Racers race race bikes not sportsbikes. Custom builders customise into low riders and street fighters not factory cruisers. Once our phenomena has sorted itself out, I guess the Adventure riders will be happy with their plastic yet silver square boxes and the long distance motor cycle riders will still be kicking about on ex-army rucksack festooned C90's, ten year old Tenere's, Enfields and a thousand other odd and very personal bits of machinery, including the odd tin-boxed GS.

Andy

If I was to go out and buy a bike for a RTW, this is what I'd buy!

:)

Thank you, and keep it coming
 

Thanks chaps, there have been some really interesting, illuminating and articulate thoughts here. Makes me proud to be a part of it - long live the HUBB! Can you imagine this kind of eloquence on any other similar site?!

For those of you who asked, the mag is called Outrider Journal. It's a new US-based mag but I believe they ship worldwide. It's a quarterly, intelligent, high-quality affair dedicated to worldwide adventure/off-road riding with an eye on cultural topics, land-use issues etc as well as the bike/kit side of things.

The first issue has just been launched. The website is Outrider Journal | The Print Quarterly for Dual Sport and Adventure Motorcycle Riding Enthusiasts

What happened to the original topic ????

Surely "What is adventure motorcycling" is another topic entirely ??


:oops2:

This was printed in1996:
http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/basiccom.jpg

I agree, the topic got somewhat expanded and morphed ...:laugh:

I think there will always be DIY'ers, like in the ''old days'' they made everything; or when something, whatever it might be (tools,equipment,trip...) is not THE one for you, you just try to make your own. :cursing:

I bought my bike used, made my panniers, do my maintenance and plan my trip by myself/with my riding buddies. :rofl:

I do sometimes buy, 'cause I can't make it (like a stove, can make a fire though ;-))....jeiger

I don't mind that some folks want to pay for whatever they want...it's a personnal thing. Just like an adventure, personnal thing. :scooter:

PS: Thank you Lois for ''kickstarting'' my wife into ''adventure'' motorcycling ;) :Beach:

I like this ;)

It would be rude to comment :rofl:

Take a look at the "Stuff you wouldn't take next time" thread too, I think it's heading along similar lines. I'm embarrased to say that with the exception of the bog brush, I did carry half the useless stuff (CD Heliograph etc.) that's mentioned :blushing:. Then I remembered why I decided I needed it all. It's all in mid-late 90's books on the subject (the bog brush is for the vital task of getting mud out of air cooling fins lest the engine siezes). Still, lucky I didn't confuse the books, I've one from the early 1900's that suggests various firearms for dealing with rebelious natives and cocaine (probably to sooth your nerves afterwards). :eek3:. How did we survive without the interweb!

Guess I should go make myself something for the next trip. Think I'll start with another cup of tea :innocent:

Andy

surely DIY means pedal cycling rather than letting an engine propel you ? :-)

there's a paradox in there somewhere that reading about DIY sort of dilutes your DIY-fu.

then again, if you were to compare it to cooking... take raw ingredients at one end and ready made supermarket meals at the other, I think people of a certain mindset generally gravitate towards the raw end of the scale; regardless of where they initially land on that scale.

you can have an adventure with a tomato sandwich, just as you can with a naive trip to France.

I understood DIY to mean 'not an organised group tour'. I have to say there are a lot of potential DIY travellers on this site and others and I can't say I have noticed a European bias but then the septics stick mostly to their own sites I suppose.

Is there a lot more DIY'ing going on because of resources like the HUBB or is it just the same now as it was a few years ago just that people tend to over plan their trips because there is so much information available.

The downside with just setting off and working it out as you go is the amount of time you spend sorting things out in unfamiliar cities - we spent weeks in Cairo, Port Said and Suez trying to find a way round or over Sudan as at the time Sudan was closed. I'm sure it would be easier now.

Ted makes a good point - the thread (like so many before it) did wander a little!

In addition to my earlier points I'd say this about DIY Advanture Touring - doing everything yourself gives you a far greater sense of achievement. I think people like to choose the level to which they 'DIY' - they do as much as they think their own skills allow them too and feel all the more pride in their acheivement. There is definately a feeling of satisfaction from home made kit/doing it on the cheap/ choosing your own bike (rather than what MCN tells you what you need). You will ofetn hear a DIY Adv-tourer telling you with pride how his home made panniers cost $8.50 and took a weekend to build - but you'd never hear that from someone who bought TT's off the shelf. Imagine - "Yeah, and I did my entire trip with these panniers - they cost £1000 and were adequate. Pretty proud of that..."

However, for some people that isn't important. They simply want to ride their lovely expensive bike in interesting places. There's nothing wrong with that. DIY is perhaps just an added dimension - something more you can take from the experience. If x = adventure motorcycling and y = DIY, then x on its own simply = x. But x + y = z. And z = DIY adventure motorcycling, which (for some people) is so much more than x.

(Saturday night. Lots of wine consumed - hope this isn't total nonsense!)

MAtt :) :)

It seems unlikely to me that the "DIY approach to motorcycle travel" is any less common in the USA. But they don't leave North America as often simply because it is such a big place, and thus don't show up as much on this web site.

Also, what is the cutoff for a person who is "DIY"? Someone who doesn't use an organized trip? Someone who has no sponsors? Someone who can work on his own motorcycle? Someone who built his own motorcycle from scratch? Someone who bought all gear second-hand?

Depending on where you make the cutoff point, I am either a diehard DIY traveler, or have never touched the DIY philosophy a day in my life. For example, I work on my bike myself because I enjoy it, but I decided long ago that it is simply not worth my time to create most of the rest of my gear. Am I not a DIY'er because I place a high value on my own time?

And right there is the difference in philosophy!

For you DIY-ing would be a waste of your precious time. Absolutely fair enough.

I would say (IMHO) that the DIY-er places no less value on their time. But, because the (for example) manufacture of home made panniers is an enjoyable end in itself, the time spent on this is NOT a waste of time.

Most Adv-Tourers live in first world societies where the (say) 20 or so man-hours spent on building home made panniers would not really be that difficult to find. But for some it would be a pointless waste of time, for others it is an interesting and rewarding challenge.

There is no right way or wrong way - just your own way.

Matt :)

I think that most of the DIY threads on ADVRider which I have seen were from the USA... things like carbon fibre panniers, or mermite tin panniers.

There seems to be [IMHO] three kinds of motorcycle travelers .
a] The young person on a strict budget ,eager to get out and see a bit of the world.
b] The older person who has raised a family and now has enough time and money to do extended trips .
c] The inveterate traveler ,for whom traveling is a necessary part of life ,or indeed has become a way of life.

DIY will ,more than likely appeal, to groups a and c .
The person most likely to read articles in a glossy magazine will be in group b .
Magazines are reliant upon advertising and ,like it or not ,companies like Touratech don't want to see articles slagging off their highly expensive tat.
So be kind !:innocent:

And of course, it's a lot easier to be a DIY biker if you're lucky enough to have a decent sized garage/workshop, a good set of tools and a bit of know how.

I'm very lucky. I inherited a very large, pretty well stocked garage from my dad (aircraft engineer and classic car restorer).

Imagine buying all the tools, equipment to build your own if you didn't have it already ?? It would cost a good few £££££.

Lot's of people living in apartments or small houses. People having to work on the street or kitchen table are going to find it MUCH more difficult.

I have to admit, I wouldn't do half as much DIY if it wasn't for my workshop.

Well, I'm one of those people that have a hard time understanding this fascination with "DIY"...that's great if some people get some sort of satisfaction out of spending a weekend building their own panniers, but for various reasons (explained below), I'd much rather spend a couple of hundred bucks to get something off the shelf, and spend my time riding or doing something else.

I live in Moscow and have neither the skills, time, garage, or tools to fabricate a bunch of stuff on my own, and morever, have no desire to, and money is not really an issue. I know what I want, and generally there is an acceptable commercial product; if not, I will do without or jerry-rig something that works.

I have some TT stuff, and some stuff by a variety of small vendors, I don't really care about the source, as long as it is functional and not crazy expensive. I'm not interested in showing off what I made in my garage, really not interested in your opinion of me or my bike whatsoever. I like to travel on my bike to wherever I want to go, and I don't see DIY as any kind of "added dimension". That weekend you spent in your garage making your panniers? I was probably out riding.

That's great that some people like tinkering with stuff like this, but to imply that you are somehow better for it is a bit much IMO...

Another dimension of 'What is diy mc travel?':
There's been talk about people who create and prepare their bikes and gear themselves, and also talk about people who travel 'off the cuff' (for want of a better term). The two are often quite far removed from each other.

Some people who build their own paniers 'etc' go quite over the top (imo), and are quite obsessive about having every thing/feature they could ever need and having absolutly the best possible. This to me is just a different side of the same coin from people who spend hours flicking through touratech catalogues 'etc' searching for the best kit money can buy and having every 'adventure motorcycling' accessorie they make. The difference between these two groups is only about the bike and gear, and the actual style of travel can often be quite similar.


To my mind the concept of 'diy advmoto' some here are getting at is more the ethos and style of the travel, not about whether you built your own bike and luggage. Thusly I don't see why buying ready made gear in any way excludes one from being a 'diyer'. It's hard to see someone on a brand new beamer with all the touratech clobber fitting this, but someone who just bought a bike and some basic motorcycle luggage and set off could well be.


In someways diy is about striving for independance, and in someways this can end up lessening a travel experience because it will reduce your interaction with people in the places you're travelling through.

/Edit, one last thing:
What's more adventurous, or even more 'DIY'; The traveller who takes a tent and a camping stove, and spends every night camping in the wilderness cooking their own nosh. Or the person who doesn't even have any camping equipment, and spends many a night in dodgey small hotels and guesthouses, and even in people's houses when it's offered or when desperate, and whom eats every day from dubious local cafes etc. The reality is that most travellers seem to do a bit of both however.

Very interesting, and very true I think.

My own tale related (a little bit) to this:
When I decided to go on my trip to Mongolia, I was entranced by the thought of travelling through Russia and Kazakhstan et al. How exotic, how adventurous. Some time later and I'm now married to a Russian who grew up in Kazakhstan, and the thought that simply travelling through Russia or Kazakhstan is 'oh so adventurous' now seems laughable.


We noticed that people who travel tend often to show a distorted view of the places they've visited, in their blogs, photos and tales to friends. Making them seem more exotic, more dangerous, more adventurous than they really are And also simply 'more different' to our western way of life than is the reality. Noticed this loads. Even the revered Austin Vince is/was terribly guilty of this in his dvds.

Eh?! Where did I imply I was better for it?

If you read my post properly you'll see I've been as careful as possible not to say any such thing. Did you see this bit? -

"However, for some people that isn't important. They simply want to ride their lovely expensive bike in interesting places. There's nothing wrong with that."

Or, where I qualified my 'scientific formula' here: "DIY adventure motorcycling, which (for some people) is so much more than x."

I said, in what I thought was pretty basic language, that for some people it adds an extra dimension. For some people it doesn't. Its all good!


In my next post (two posts later) I was even clearer:

"For you DIY-ing would be a waste of your precious time. Absolutely fair enough.

I would say (IMHO) that the DIY-er places no less value on their time. But, because the (for example) manufacture of home made panniers is an enjoyable end in itself, the time spent on this is NOT a waste of time.

Most Adv-Tourers live in first world societies where the (say) 20 or so man-hours spent on building home made panniers would not really be that difficult to find. But for some it would be a pointless waste of time, for others it is an interesting and rewarding challenge.

There is no right way or wrong way - just your own way."



I always to try to discuss things as levelly and even handedly as possible, without implying that my way is the best way, my bike is the best bike or anything like that, as I'm well aware my way probably isn't the best way and my bike (given the fruitless afternoon I've just spent tinkering with the damn thing!) probably isn't the best bike!

The thread is about DIY adventure touring. I genuinely don't understand why you would read such a thread and then get offended by people trying to explain what it means for them.

Cheers,

Matt :)

PS - That weekend you were out riding? It was probably p*ssing it down here in Scotland! ;)

It's OK Dodger, I AM kind! This article is not about slagging anything off, it's a discussion about different philosophies to our hobby/way of life. It is not fuelled by an agenda - everyone can do what makes them happy as far as I am concerned - but lately I am seeing a move towards more lo-fi travelling and that is of interest to me, so I assume it will be of interest to the readers of the mag. Let's hope so!

Hey Lois, when you say that you see a move towards more lo-fi traveling, what is the basis of comparison you look at?

I mean, is it the same amount of folks, who have traveled in the past in one way and now choose a low-cost, simpler approach?

Or, has the number of overland motorcycle travelers increased, thus added to the pool of people and the tendency of new-comers is going low-cost, simpler?

Are you looking at demographic changes over the years, i.e. age, income class, etc.?

I can't say I've noticed this but I would add the following two observations:
1. Places become less 'hostile' as you get to know them better
2. I heard an inspirational story last year at Enniskillen (Ireland meeting -sorry can't remember his name) where the guy was travelling alone through Morocco and felt fearful of the locals in the small villages he passed through because they had a menacing look about them. As he travelled on he remembered being told that "you get what you project" and so changed his attitude and noticed a totally different reaction from the locals in the next town. He further observed that as he was chatting merrily with them they stopped talking when more travellers were passing through and had the same hard looks that he found intimidating initially.

I guess my point is that your reaction, and consequently your experience, is subjective and depends on a whole raft of factors -lots of which are within your control -if you are aware of them.

We in the USA get a week or 2 off per year. No time fore nice long trips. And the USA is big and in Canada and Mexico and you are looking a huge area to ride in.

As far as DIY it is alive and well as seen with rtwdoug a basket case bike and a old bag used for RTW.

As for me much of the time a DIY job is not worth time or money, cheaper and faster to go to a store and pay for it. But I have had my share of little DIY for moto trips. But my next bike I am working on is a old oil burning 1978 Yamaha dt125.

It's probably a bit of both but most notably I am hearing people who bought a big bike and lots of kit/gadgets for the their first trip come back saying they will be taking a smaller bike and less stuff on their next trip. Have also noticed a move away from technology - people choosing to take less electronic gear that needs charging or that ends up breaking and needs fixing. In other words, just simplifying the experience.

This is not some scientific study, I hasten to add! Just my observations from people I meet at bike shows, my talks, on the road, by email etc.

Less is more! Given those parameters, to a certain degree, I would fall into that category as well. I have definitely cut back on a lot of stuff compared to previous trips. I have changed to less, but higher quality and functionality.

There is the technology cycle involved here:

1980's: You go into the then Soviet Union, people at home expect intermitant post cards and the Post Resant system works given enough time.Phone calls require a trip to a government department, no one expects you to make one except maybe from a hospital bed or police cell.

Late 20th/early 21st Century: People at home expect e-mails and frequent phone calls. In the rough end of Kazakhstan you might find a cafe or friendly business with dial up or a phone that will call outside the country, but having your sat phone and lap top makes things easier.

2011: Every McDonalds between London and Tokyo has wifi that your mobile will link with. The local newsagents sell pay and go's.

Only during the spread of technology do you need to carry as much stuff. Same can be said for bikes, there can't be many mechanics in the world now who havn't seen a fuel pump, but that's another topic.

Andy

There's been a wealth of responses so far, and I dare say my responses will, therefore, add little. But I have 15 mins to spare so why not?

Adventure motocycling now has a higher profile, and so more people have taken notice. Some like the look, some like the lifestyle, some like both. As a result companies are making more and lots of it costs £$€. Those who lack the money or prefer to channel it elsewhere will need to adapt what they have. So the difference between what one person buys and what one person builds becomes very obvious.

Lois' basic question was, as I understood it, is overlanding by bike moving toward a more simplistic way of doing things.

IMO, no.

As has been said, the adventure segment has grown incredibly and so now there is a whole gammet of styles and approaches.

"Back to Basics/DIY" is only one of those and, I think, has always been there.
It is probably the oldest form simply because those who fancied overlanding way back when, lacked the marketed products and infrastructure we have now: so what choice was there but to make and make do?

This "keep it simple" approach has simply been overshadowed by the big money machine that has picked up such momentum.

Perhaps now it is just getting more coverage, as the novelty to many of Adventure biking wanes, and some publish their journeys whilst others make a point of distancing themselves from the more mainstream approach, fearful of being tarnished by association!

Personally, I hope to build my own bike for the job as it seems every option out there compromises what I want, so I will be doing the DIY bit more. Similarly, I am no engineer so it will be "kept basic" by necessity, not choice!

I've forgotten the name of the book but in the 50's someone in the UK who was having trouble adjusting to life being les exciting since WW2 ended converted his series I Landrover into an amphibious one from scratch, then sailed it to South America, drove all over the place, then sailed it back. That's the very best DIY adventure I have ever heard of by a clear mile, and was done over 60 years ago.
Maybe it's not the spirit or ethos that is growing, just the ability to find out about other peoples trips has got so much better (dare I say it the ability to blow ones own trumpet has gone up!!). Without places like HU I would only have managed to bore a handful of friends and family with my 'tales of daring do', normally starting with 'when I was in backwoodistan' and loud groans from all present :)

I know I quoted you, but my post was actually a general reaction to some of the posts on this thread, although I did interpret your statement that DIY riding is "an added dimension - something more you can take from the experience" as meaning that you thought that making your own stuff makes riding a more complete experience (ie, x+y rather than simply x), which I don't really agree with.

I can't say that I was offended, more puzzled really. And your comment about the weather brings up a good point, that all of this is very situational...someday when I have more skills, time, tools, space, and stormy weather, it is very possible that I'll be beavering away in my garage as much as anyone...

I feel a kinship with all people who adventure on the road no matter how many wheels under them, peddle or power.
Simpler riding is dictated by the countries you travel through.
Asia lends itself to "diy", as small bikes are the norm. Less fuel, insurance is kept under the magic 150 cc limit . (This is written as an extra on travel insurance, mainly to accommodate the hiring of scooters at tourist spots. I know I'm stretching a friendship here, but there are no distance limits on many policies.)
A small bike can be sold at the border, if having troubles, and purchased on the other side. Also in case of an accident the bike is not a logistical pain. Its how the locals travel so there are always ways of travelling around trouble spots.
But with a small bike you have to be brutal in weight you carry, so you do get inventive.
I ,like many new here, have come from the backpacking world where I may have seen many who post here enjoying their freedom, that is advertising in its own right for my (cough) new found sport.

Lois,
Great meeting you (and Austin) in San Francisco last month.

Not sure about other countries, but I think that there is a simplicity "fad" happening in the US these days--in part simply from a longing for a more engaged and simpler life (in a world where constant electronic distraction/communication and work are the norm), and in part simply due to a value shift effected by the crappy economic situation. Motorcycle travel gets caught up in that.

As for me, my first adventure moto trip was in 2006--all of 10 days around the western states, as I recall. I prepared by making a sheepskin seat cover, getting a side of leather and a saddlebag pattern and making myself a set of saddlebags. Lined 'em with trash bags for rainy days on the road. Bungeed a canoeing drybag up top, got a handful of paper maps and some camping gear, and off I went.

I survived (getting caught in a snowstorm in a mesh jacket was quite something), but as soon as I got home, started slowly acquiring fancier gear that wouldn't leak, rust, or break so damned easily. On my last cross-country trip, I was riding through an apocalyptic thunder and hailstorm, completely lost, in South Dakota, thinking, "gosh, I'm glad for hard panniers--I'm free to worry about imminent death from a lightning strike, without fussing over whether my gear is getting wet."

There's also group of very DIY, punk/leftist activist folks in the US who travel widely on the thinnest of shoestrings--networking and sharing travel expenses and putting each other up, sleeping under bridges when necessary, using secondhand or homemade gear. They aren't going back to basics, since they never left. Most are bicyclists; two of my acquaintance are motorcyclists, and one rides an old Ascot 500 with homemade bags to within an inch of its life. A few of them are friends, and I admire their courage and adaptability and minimalism; certainly I've learned a great deal from their style of travel, but my own psychological makeup needs a bit more gear and resource use to make it fun for me. Still, their tales of breakdowns and hitchhiking on the Dalton Highway, going to metal shows held in coal mines in Albania, being blown off the road in Montana, and sleeping in caves in the Pyrenees are great stuff, and proof of lives well lived.

The only non DIYers are those that choose an organised tour. For some this is a very good option as it's a good way to make the best use of your time off.

Everyone else is DIYing to some extent. We have always been very organised on our trips in terms of the bike and luggage although everything is home made and all the modifications to the bike are our own doing. Other than that we have a destination and a vague route in mind but the rest is made up as we go along. On our trip to Cape Town we met some bike travellers several times and you cou see them changing as they went along from being on a 4 month trip to becoming long term travellers picking up work where they could etc. and others again who just couln't wait for it to finish so they could get back to their comfortable European lives.

The Adventure bit for me is going further than you've been before and seeing new places and meeting new people for the first time. I was always surprised at how different my experience was from what I'd read in guide books. There are some that find it's the escape from their previous lives that they were looking for and they become long term travellers and there are others who just don't like being outside their comfort zone.

That's cool. :) I was worried my post had been misconstrued. I understand the sentiment - there inevitably creeps in a kind partisanship and snobbery between some members of different sectors of an otherwise homogenous group. I have no time for that nonsense - I like to ride with anyone - my riding buddies come from the full spectrum and I'd hate to think that I was guilty of looking down on someone whose approach was different to mine.

Matt :)

Thats funny, I was thinking about this in the shower this morning! A while ago MCN did an article on adventure motorcycling with a mildly amusing attempt at creating categories of rider. I don't remember what they were exactly but one was the 'lone wolf'

I guess as any community grows it fractions and you get more distinct groups forming within it - is adventure biking going to go the way of us defining each other by what we ride, where we go or why we do it? Is this something we should be trying to shape or just let itevolve of it's own accord?

The reason I chose to ride a motorcycle was the high profile coverage of adventure motorcycling that took place a few years ago. I am of course talking about the Long Way.... productions, which I enjoyed watching.
Now, I cannot afford a big adventure motorcycle with all the fancy attachments; nor would I buy one if I could. Reason, I find large motorcycles dreadful to ride, and Touratech don't make bits specific for my bike!

So I am left adapting my own motorcycle, a 125, for the small trips I have done so far. One day I would love to buy a mid weight duel-sport bike with factory fitted panniers, but that isn’t going to be soon. This does not mean I am unhappy with my choice of bike and its arrangements at the moment, it’s just my preference.

I think a lot of hate is being directed at GS owners because of Ewan & Charley's programme; to people on this forum adventure motorcycling is a close to heart subject, and to see it displayed on television in such a way made a lot of people unhappy; perhaps it was an invasion of privacy.

I believe the DIY approach is more a fact of confirming oneself as a 'true' adventure motorbiker in some deep psychological way, similar to the chap at the end of the bar who drinks real ale and is therefore a 'true' pub goer (only people from Yorkshire will get that comparison!).

Yes, I think you are right, and it's not fair. People have been riding BMWs round the world for donkeys years for one reason - they are very good motorbikes.

I read something similar. It's like this stuff is written by their advertising sales people. They decide to do yet another 600 supersports 4 way ride off. Advertising sales guy points out that Sports-Touring riders will be put off, so they do a side bar on how well throwovers fit and stick an advert for Oxford Luggage underneath. Then of course advertising sales guy gets an enquiry from a race school, so you get another one pager tagged on about how your CBR600 can have a slipper clutch and tyre warmers. I'd even wonder if the task Lois was given at the start was triggered by Touratech etc. wondering why their sales have levelled off? :innocent: :nono: :rofl:

In real life, I'd bet we'd struggle to find an R1200GS riding Touratech advert who hadn't stuck a bit of velcro inside his pannier lids to hold something or at the other extreme an Enfield riding Max Mad lookalike who hadn't thought about buying the odd SIGG bottle holder. The "categories" have to be blurry.


I don't think we can use the pub analogy in isoltaion. If Ewan and Charlie are drinking Peroni with a squeeze of lime in the wine bar round the corner while half of us are in a canal side boozer sampling the "Sheep Killer Ruby", I can find you riders who drink nothing but filtered rain water and others who'll only touch stuff made from real sheep. I know, I went to MZ club gatherings :eek3: bier :rofl:

Andy

Is that a 'they are' or 'they were' very good bikes? The old R80 GS and the like are great machines, solid, bombproof, dependable - but I've heard nothing but gripes from the owners of the new generation machines! Unfortunately the classic R80 GSPD is like hens teeth now and commanding very high prices in any condition

This thread was overdue for the requisite BMW bashing, so thanks for checking that box.

Actually, I think you'll find that many R1200GS owners, including on this forum, find them to be excellent and reliable machines--I know I do...

And when I rode across Russia a couple of years ago, the sole bike in the group to break down was a R80 GSPD, all of the "new generation" bikes did just fine.

You're welcome! Was just reading the thread about the F800 GS as an adventure bike, may have jaded my view. I guess the stories that get through are always the nightmare ones - the 'bike did fine and no problems, support from BMW was good' reports don't make good reading! TBH the only people I know in Sheffield with 1200GS's are bike instructors so that must speak well for them

My mates got a BMW 1200GS. Had it for a few years, ridden it thousands of k's and the only 'breakdown' he's had was when he filled it with diesel! :laugh:

Sorry,:offtopic: - I just like telling that story! :)

Hypocrite that I am I'd secretly quite like a GS (as would many beemer bashers!) - the main thing that irks me is you see so many going around fully tourateched up and they never go further than a weekend in Wales.... in the words of John Lennon - I'm just a jealous guy:rolleyes2:

Henry, you're more than welcome to buy my 1150 with 105,000 miles on the clock if you're after a more 'rugged' GS look ;) Absolutely bugger all wrong with it but then its never done any hardcore commuting...

Afraid I am prepping some onld 125 pizza bikes for some desert racing so my bike budget is blown at the moment (along with my new roof and food budget!), plus I am taking the wise step of restricting my bikes to ones that fit down the gennel to the back of my house and into the shed - would need a crane to get the GS off the street and I am 'vehicle theft prone'.....

If it irks you that much why don't you go up to the rider of the fully Tourateched GS/RT and demand to see their "adventure motorcycling" C.V. ?
All the grey-haired old farts I know have been travelling the globe for decades on everything from BSA Bantams to the QM2. There'll be a few at the Scottish in a couple of weeks. Go up and ask.
Does the phrase "been there,done that" resonate?


What's wrong with Wales anyway? the place is fantastic now the hotels are staffed by Eastern Europeans that actually try to speak English.

And remember, jealousy gets you shot outside The Dakota.

Interesting as this thread is, I'm not sure I'm any clearer as to what DIY-ing is?!

I'd agree there is a void and maybe backlash after E&C, but this is, at least partly, filled by loons in jumpsuits on a Ural, todays must have ;)

Making your own panniers makes you a hard core DIY-er though? Why the panniers specifically? TT boxes but a screen made from marg tub lids and Tizer bottles doesn't count? Home made boxes on a shiny new GS does? I'd have to say the two bikes at the HUMM last year with dishwasher racks as panniers do score highly though!

I passed my test so I could buy an 1150 GS, but found at 5'6" it was too big, so didn't buy anything. Nugget huh? Slightly before any E&C the 1200 came out and I could just ride it, so I bought one. Having hunted around for something to wear year round, I also bought a matching red "twat" suit which has been ace for the last 7 years! The ventilation is better than anything else I've looked at without taking scissors to it (but that would increase my cred since the holes would be DIY?!) The only thing that would stop me buying another when this one falls apart is looking a twat! (Unfortunately the current colours don't match my bike, so I'll have to change that too, of course :)

I think the whole thing (AM) revolves on you actually going anywhere, wether a few days away from home or across continents. If you do neither (and really never intend to) then maybe you are a twat, regardless of engine size, plywood panniers or Beemer suit?

Until someone else can ride the bike for you its always DIY though, IMHO :)

Yours grumpily,

Jason

(currently away on 4 wheels, but fully customised all by myself with a signed by Lois (herself!) and Austin (himself!) (no really!) sticker :))

Totally agree :thumbup1:

Oiiii!?!

Woss-rong with Urals then?!:taz:


3 guesses what I've been out on today...

I would class myself as a combination of the two overriding descriptions put forward so far. I don't have the skill (or patience?!) to build the whole thing myself, but when I go away I'm definately looking forward to NOT taking many mod cons with me (I'm primarily thinking about laptops / internet / always-on phone connection).

As good as the UK is (hope this doesn't start another rant!), I'm looking to have a simpler experience when I go away. I thought about a laptop, and have rejected the idea. I'm taking a phone for emergencies, but am telling my family that unless they hear from me I'll be fine - I'm going to leave it switched off for 99% of the time. I plan to have a mixture of accomodation, depending on whether I'm staying in one place for a few days (hotel) or just over night (tent).

Does this mean I'm a DIY-er? I don't know. Am I that concerned either way? Probably not! What I do want from the experience is to interact with the locals, to see the view from my bike (an 800GS!) and 'commune with the world', for want of a better phrase. My life here, the 'target-driven existence', will be well and truly left behind, my greatest joy being a full fuel gauge and the possibilities that will bring.

My life has been, by many global standards, quite sheltered; I want to experience the world in which I live. The DIY part, for me, comes not from having built the bike and accessories from scratch (although, if you can, good on you!) but from getting out there and doing it on your own; by that, I mean organising the thing yourself. I have gone on organised holidays, and they're brilliant. I personally, at this point in my life, want the enjoyment of Doing It Myself.

As with all things, c'est la vie and each to their own. I don't want anyone telling me how to do things, and would do the same. :D

Lots of interesting and valid perspectives on this thread, although I think it is bad news for Lois, because, well, as far as I can tell there is no "DIY movement"--everyone defines DIY in their own way, and properly so.

Lois,
You and Austin are the best at telling people to just get on with it. I hope that you both keep pushing this philosophy.

We all know how comforting it is to browse the Touratech catalog and see that all we need to cross the Darien Gap is the black anodised cluch lever cover with ipod connection that we don't have yet. It is nice to know that there is no point in going far from home without the latest kit and so we have a wonderful ready-made excuse for procrastinating. We realise that it is best not to set off too early until all the kit has been assembled and all the planning has been done.

so you and Austin are great antidotes to the "Touratech Tarts" by just saying just go and get there - it will be OK I promise.

So keep your message flying please, D.I.Y. is possible and much more fun.
Nigel

DIY cred, roughing it etc.
 

There seems to be some predujice creeping in here - those who make their own panniers claiming some extra 'cred' points and those who can't be bothered claiming that they are just as resourceful and independant as those who do (or more experienced maybe because they spend more time travelling and less time fettling).

I only looked at this thread in the first place because I wondered what DIY had got to do with AM or travelling. After reading Lois's introduction I got the idea that the term DIY was a way of distinguishing the independant traveller for the commercial tour traveller or maybe the E&C travelling circus.

I DIY in the true sense of the term to save money - not because I can't afford it but because I can't see the value in some commercial stuff (shiny metal boxes for example) but I also DIY so that everything is as I want it and I don't have to 'rough it'. If cooking up a simple meal or packing up and stowing the tent is hassle free and I'm doing everyday for 6 weeks on the trot, the easier it is the more time I have to enjoy riding the bike and seeing new places. I can get as animated about the benefits of a petrol stove over a gas stove as the next bloke but that is not why I'm travelling. I'm cooking my food to live and I'm travelling for the experiences and, for me, the experience would be dulled by travelling with a back up vehicle or on an organised tour - but that is just me and I don't cliam any more 'cred' for the way I do it.

If this is the distinction, do we really need some catchy and misleading label like "DIY"? It's "independent travel", nothing more or less, and really has absolutely nothing to do with whether you make your own panniers, etc.

Frankly, I still have no idea what "DIY adventure motorcycling" is supposed to mean.

@ Lois
 

Lois? Care to elaborate?
I'm starting to think I missed the point in my own post, too!

As someone said, you are getting a different definition with every post: not sure if that helps or hinders your research

Oh, where to start :rofl:

Andy

Could not agree more

Do we have any economists amongst us? They tried to split the descriptions of how different parts of the world dole out their resources. There was the command/planned economy where the state said who got what and the free market economy where supply and demand decides. Finally there is the mixed economy where there is a little of both. Trouble is, the first two can't really exist. You'll never stop even the most ardent North Korean Stalinist swapping cigarettes and chocolate for nylons or whatever and a state can't really function if the courts and army go with the highest bidder.

I think we have the same here, the biggest TouraTart on his pre-booked adventure holiday and the guy riding an old Pizza delivery bike to see how far he can get will never agree on everything but they'll do a bit of home made/self planned and a bit of bought it. The discussion then is really about how far in either direction people want to go.

The very word adventure seems to be changing in peoples mind. By the dictionary definition you can have an adventure in the London Underground on a Friday night if you are an American tourist. The blokes who work in the city might laugh at this. The world is now so lacking in truely unexplored regions everyone is a tourist really. We therefore have the split between guys who consider being up a gravel track ten miles from home on their Adventure bike to be an adventure and others who'll split the concept of a ride out, tour and adventure somewhere else. The fact the US has lots of gravel road ten miles from a lot of peoples houses while borders with guards that need bribing could be ten times the distance away a European needs to travel I think is what's not helping the definitions.

Do we really need the definition though?

Andy

Lois, would it be fair to say that your question is about whether or not there is perhaps an increase in the number of minimalist travelers lately? I know "minimalist" is subjective, too, and certainly depends on perspective, but it might be easier to discuss than "DIY" in the context of globe trekking.

I'm not in much of a position myself to say one way or another, but it does seem to me that a lot of people have had their working lives changed quite a bit by the recent global financial situation. I suspect quite a few have said "to hell with it" and hit the road with whatever they have now (e.g., an old beat up KLR 650 and a huge gym bag) rather than what they think they'd like to have (e.g., BMW GS Adventure with Touratech luggage).

By the way, thanks to you and Austin for keeping the flame alive for those of us who like smaller bikes and a lighthearted approach to life.

I don't really like it when someone comes to this forum, asks everyone for their opinions, gets them, and then just disappears. I guess we're supposed to read the magazine article?

Wow! :o

Lois is a regular and popular speaker at HUBB events, she is one of the major organisers of the yearly HUMM (for HU), and she leads a busy life. I feel that the quoted post was a little unfair IMHO

:(

Well I keep my TouraTwat porn book next to the bed. But like all good porn it is just wishfull thinking, and I make do with what I got or its a bit of DIY to fix the problem.:eek3:

all down to interpretation...and not continent specific
 

Hi Lois.
D.I.Y.
all down to 'Do It Your [own way!] yeah I know it doesnt really fit but its near enough. ;-)

In my mind DIY Adventure motorcycling is a trip where one does not rely on a company to organise certain things like the route, hotels, visas, etc.
buying pre-made equipment rather than building your own is not really a technical possibility for many. there is absolutely no way I would take a set of panniers that Simon had made and expect them to last 8 months let alone 8 years!!! sorry hubby no insult intended....

I also don't think the DIY is country specific (or continent specific) we have met bikers from all over the World. many on shorter trips ie months, some on years long trips. All independently travelling.

I do have one question though. .....
Do you consider that someone who uses a companies products rather than making 'his' own is less of a traveller? I mean...do you camp? do you take a stove with you...if you are to be considered a 'true' DIY 'Adventure motorcyclist' shouldnt you just build a fire and cook on that? Your tent...have you bought one from a company or did you get some material and make it yourself on your sewing machine...or why not just do a true DIY and camp out in the open cowboy -style or Bear Grills style?

actually I lie...I have another question... do you meant the overall ethos of the trip or specifically the bike prep/equipment as it appears that the thread is focusing on bike prep.

I think its all a personal prespective - one mans DIY = B&Q flat pack. anothers DIY= go and cut down a tree and start from there.

in any walk of life snobbery, inverted or otherwise, can creep into any subject: such is the nature of human insecurity.

those lucky enough to travel sooner or later realise that its the experiences we accumulate along the way, how we interpret those experiences and assimilate them is what is truly important.

the reality of a metal box being homemade or bought eventually becomes just a redundant piece of pre-prep fact. that ultimately isnt going to affect the content or magic of a conversation with 3 brightly dressed Masai NE of Arusha when you're looking for somwhere to camp.

cheers! enjoy whatever is your interpretation of D.I.Y..ing.
all the best from a very humid Thailand. Say 'hi' to Austin for us Lois and good luck with the article.

Not true IMHO. One persons useful holder in the pannier lid that keeps the tyre changing stuff/tin can for brewing up at the side of the road/camera to the top is useful, to another it's a waste of space. Some will pack their kit in plastic bags, others add sealant to bought panniers, others still design a set that doesn't leak in the first place. No one complains about dry clothes.

The "inverted snobbery" thing is a touch annoying but is just human nature. I can weld, cut metal, have an engineering degree and really aren't scared of anything mechanical/electrical. If stuff is overpriced and under spec I say so and make my own. This is just the abilities I have. I am utterly useless at languages. The fact my employer needs to pay for someone to translate my work and I have to buy translation books to travel (I'm the guy with an A4 sheet of 50 words of Latvian looking lost in the airport) is just a different ability I don't have. I don't view the woman I work with who can't check her own tyre pressures but speaks six languages a snob, inverted or otherwise. There is no right answer only different solutions.

The Grilled Bear bloke is an interesting one though. Isn't it odd how accountants and lawyers will play in the woods using what even the military consider uncomfortable second best emergency ideas. Some built in thing going back to the cavemen probably :rofl:

Andy

Hello again
 

Hi all,
Sorry, been away from this thread for a bit doing various stuff - not all bike or travel related - some of it has involved books and banjos!

Anyway, just to clear a few things up - it's not MY opinion of DIY/lo-fi/minimalist motorcycle travel I'm interested in - it's everyone else's! So thank you for all your comments - it has been illuminating.

As for what the definition of DIY/lo-fi/minimalist (whatever you call it) - I don't think it's all about making your own gear etc (I couldn't weld a metal box together if I tried!) but it seems to be more of an attitude thing about keeping things cheap and simple and being self-reliant. Lately, I have noticed an increase in this approach to m/c travel after what may have been a boom the other way over the last few years - and I find this interesting - is it a reaction, is it related to the economic situation, is it symptomatic of something bigger??? I do have a personal interest in this kind of approach to life (ie sustainable, non-corporate, off-the-grid etc). But it's nothing more controversial than that, really. Didn't mean to start any wars!!!

I'm sorry if the guy in Moscow is upset that I asked people's opinions for my article but because I count many people on the HUBB as personal friends (including Grant and Susan) and have been posting on here for nearly 10 years I thought it would be a great way of getting opinions from those friends, and of all the other nice people that I have met on my travels and at HU meetings.

See you all at Ripley folks and thanks again.
Lois

I bolded the important part of my post in case you missed it before: "I don't really like it when someone comes to this forum, asks everyone for their opinions, gets them, and then just disappears."

A post such as your last one, in which you thank people for their opinions, and gave your own, is kind of what I thought would be appropriate.

Dear Motoreiter, thank you for clearing that up. If you look back through the thread you will see my other responses on the first, second and third pages, thanking people for their thoughts and contributing to the discussion.
Cheers,
Lois