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-   Travellers' Advisories, Safety and Security on the Road (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/travellers-advisories-safety-security-road/)
-   -   Warning if traveling in Scandinavia (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/travellers-advisories-safety-security-road/warning-if-traveling-in-scandinavia-52247)

laplander 23 Aug 2010 11:41

Warning if traveling in Scandinavia
 
Please note following while traveling in scandinavia:

Norway:

Locals like to leave lambs running around on purpose to collect money from turist,on the open roads especially in north, so if you hit the lamb in norway you can be easily landed with 2000e/$ compensation+ticket.

road to Nord Kapp, and roads in Tårnet & Winterwollen (russian border behind kirkenes) are notarius for this...yes I know its bull...sh... and even the locals admitt this...

Police:

Seem to activate from winter hybernation during the summer months especially in the wery north.

My friend flashed back his lights to the on coming car (no speeding), police car behind this car issued 220e/280$ fine for" wrong use of the lights"

During the issuance of the ticket my friend was forced to take "on the spot fine" so no later argumentation could be possible. On the ticket the officer marked more points lost on his licence that the information leaf about the fines in norway would suggest, that the police gave to him!!!:thumbdown:

My friend who has lived in norway for years summarized it nicely:

" In norway they like you to leave your money for turist stuff as an foreigner, and you to leave after that...if you end up staying, you can find out how even the white man can be treated racist way...."

sad but true....:(

Finland:

Police straight forward and much more reliable, tolerant and reasonable when it becomes bush camping and if you behave as the Finns do (calmly and respectfully)

Speeding Fines:thumbdown:

Be aware that in Finland they have so called "daily fines" or "päiväsakko" that can be nasty surprice if you are high income invidual, or business owner ect. there has been in the news cases that even with modest overspeed has brought high income inviduals 20 000e/ 24 000$ fines!!!

(authorities will check your income while issuing ticket, if you are foreigner they will send request your home countrys tax authorities...if you lie your income, it becomes really expesive and very quick!!!!)

speeding cameras are in wide use, now there is a system that monitors the speed over long distance with vehicle recocnition so speeding is not good idea in Finland anywhere.

Good news: Camping, traveling, borders ect.:clap:

Camping is straight forward, dont go into peoples yards, 150m/from the house in the country side, dont leave anything behind, and dont make an fire if not in place that is for fire making, or you have land owners permission (designated places)

you can camp this way pretty much anywhere and security is never an issue, when you are 20km outside of big cities. Just make sure that you dont block the road if camping in bush... :innocent:

If local finn appears that can be quessed to be an land owner, ask if you can sleep for one night, in most cases you can, in 99% cases nobody shows up...(so you can camp...)

Moving around:

In scandinavia there is no trespassing laws, as long the area is not marked off, or you are asked by athorities or land owner to leave, be aware that the border between Russia and Finland has safety perimeter (yellow paint, on the trees) go past the trees and get gought = lots off troube really quick and hefty fines!!

in the countryside:

You can freely pick berries, mushrooms ect, as long you are 150m from the house, or if you wish walk anywhere...using motor vehicles with out permisson from the land owner outside of the designated (in the forest) areas are forbitten, but camping on the side road or the track that have been clearly used is widely considered ok.

longwaybackhome 30 Aug 2010 21:55

Some comments to sheep in Norway and Everyman's Right in the Nordic countries
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by laplander (Post 302437)
Please note following while traveling in scandinavia:

Norway:

Locals like to leave lambs running around on purpose to collect money from turist,on the open roads especially in north, so if you hit the lamb in norway you can be easily landed with 2000e/$ compensation+ticket.

road to Nord Kapp, and roads in Tårnet & Winterwollen (russian border behind kirkenes) are notarius for this...yes I know its bull...sh... and even the locals admitt this...

Police:

Seem to activate from winter hybernation during the summer months especially in the wery north.

My friend flashed back his lights to the on coming car (no speeding), police car behind this car issued 220e/280$ fine for" wrong use of the lights"

During the issuance of the ticket my friend was forced to take "on the spot fine" so no later argumentation could be possible. On the ticket the officer marked more points lost on his licence that the information leaf about the fines in norway would suggest, that the police gave to him!!!:thumbdown:

My friend who has lived in norway for years summarized it nicely:

" In norway they like you to leave your money for turist stuff as an foreigner, and you to leave after that...if you end up staying, you can find out how even the white man can be treated racist way...."

sad but true....:(

Some comments to the above statements about Norway

Sheep in Norway are often grazing freely. They are not left as "traps" for tourists by the locals. It is normal that damage is compensated for however 2000 EUR sure is exorbitant for a sheep and I personally doubt the correctness of the figure. Furthermore I do not see any connection to racism here.



Quote:

Originally Posted by laplander (Post 302437)
Finland:

Police straight forward and much more reliable, tolerant and reasonable when it becomes bush camping and if you behave as the Finns do (calmly and respectfully)

Speeding Fines:thumbdown:

Be aware that in Finland they have so called "daily fines" or "päiväsakko" that can be nasty surprice if you are high income invidual, or business owner ect. there has been in the news cases that even with modest overspeed has brought high income inviduals 20 000e/ 24 000$ fines!!!

(authorities will check your income while issuing ticket, if you are foreigner they will send request your home countrys tax authorities...if you lie your income, it becomes really expesive and very quick!!!!)

speeding cameras are in wide use, now there is a system that monitors the speed over long distance with vehicle recocnition so speeding is not good idea in Finland anywhere.

Good news: Camping, traveling, borders ect.:clap:

Camping is straight forward, dont go into peoples yards, 150m/from the house in the country side, dont leave anything behind, and dont make an fire if not in place that is for fire making, or you have land owners permission (designated places)

you can camp this way pretty much anywhere and security is never an issue, when you are 20km outside of big cities. Just make sure that you dont block the road if camping in bush... :innocent:

If local finn appears that can be quessed to be an land owner, ask if you can sleep for one night, in most cases you can, in 99% cases nobody shows up...(so you can camp...)

Moving around:

In scandinavia there is no trespassing laws, as long the area is not marked off, or you are asked by athorities or land owner to leave, be aware that the border between Russia and Finland has safety perimeter (yellow paint, on the trees) go past the trees and get gought = lots off troube really quick and hefty fines!!

in the countryside:

You can freely pick berries, mushrooms ect, as long you are 150m from the house, or if you wish walk anywhere...using motor vehicles with out permisson from the land owner outside of the designated (in the forest) areas are forbitten, but camping on the side road or the track that have been clearly used is widely considered ok.


Some comments to the above statements about Finland

You write that "Police straight forward and much more reliable, tolerant and reasonable when it becomes bush camping.". It is actually the work of the police to make sure that "bush camping" is tolerated.

Finland, Sweden and Norway all have something called "Freedom to Roam" or "Everyman's right" which means that e.g. "bush camping" is allowed by the law. See Wikipedia Freedom to roam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and the Finnish Ministry of Environment site www.environment.fi - Everyman's right where also a brochure can be downloaded.

It is important to remember that most forest roads are not public but built and maintained by private persons (forest owners). Because of the climate and the ground properties the construction and maintenance is often costly. Therefore, the owners do not necessarily appreciate others using the roads (regardless of nationality) and more and more of these roads today have signs prohibiting 3rd party use. Everyman's right does not include driving on private roads with motorized vehicles.

laplander 2 Sep 2010 21:27

First, I have lived in both countries for some years, so I have good touch into topic...so...

Sheep:

If you want, you may freely hit the sheep in norway and see the outcome (on your own responcebilety...off course, please do post the latest figure)

***Furthermore I do not see any connection to racism here.

who talks about racism? we are talking about real world experiences...

Road use:

***It is important to remember that most forest roads are not public but built and maintained by private persons (forest owners).

few corrections, for the finland:

not all dirt roads are "non public" generally roads leading to private inhibitation cottages ect. can be considered as private, and should be respected... but there is vast array of legal exeptions...for ex. the cabin owner might not even own the land under the road, but there is legal right for road building and use...so common sense helps out of the most trouble...

But in general, if the road has sign and name it is most likely public...and the road is listed in street maps.

for the spring time use,
again if the road surface seems to suffer after winter and using road could damage the surface (leaving deep tracks) I would recommend not to use road...(this is common sense, right?)

If the land owner dont want other to use the road (mainly found in south), there would be signs or the roads would be closed by chains or beam and locked down...where private land owners dont want any unapproved trafik.

again if you have lived in both places for some years you tend to get the feeling about the daily life....Scandinavia is very nice during the summer moths and very secure and hospitable...the examples highlight the common things that can cause the the troubles, so while traveling up there keep your eyes open...some of the animals can be bigger than sheep. for exsample the moose on the cars hood would ruin your day very quicly....

laplander 3 Sep 2010 06:25

about the mentality, that seems to be vide spread:

Ulkolinja: Norjalaista lohta Chilestä | Ohjelmat | yle.fi

longwaybackhome 16 Sep 2010 08:35

Sheep in Norway and Roads in Finland
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by laplander (Post 304016)
First, I have lived in both countries for some years, so I have good touch into topic...so...

Sheep:

If you want, you may freely hit the sheep in norway and see the outcome (on your own responcebilety...off course, please do post the latest figure)

***Furthermore I do not see any connection to racism here.

who talks about racism? we are talking about real world experiences...

Instead of following your suggestion to go and crash into a sheep in Norway I checked the homepage of the "Norwegian sheep and goat farmers association" where I found the reference price for fully grown sheep (NSG�-�Norsk Sau og Geit). It is 2000 NOK which with todays exchange rate is 250 EUR or roughly 1/8 of the 2000 EUR you mentioned in your first post.

You were the one mentioning racism in your first post and I still see no connection to racism here. See Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:

Originally Posted by laplander (Post 304016)
Road use:

***It is important to remember that most forest roads are not public but built and maintained by private persons (forest owners).

few corrections, for the finland:

not all dirt roads are "non public" generally roads leading to private inhibitation cottages ect. can be considered as private, and should be respected... but there is vast array of legal exeptions...for ex. the cabin owner might not even own the land under the road, but there is legal right for road building and use...so common sense helps out of the most trouble...

Whether the road builder / cabin owner is building the road on his own land or on someone else's land (by utilizing his legal right to build a road) is in this context completely irrelevant, a 3rd party does not have the legal right to utilize the road. In most cases major forest roads are built by a group of land owners sharing the costs for construction and maintenance according to a pre-defined formula.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laplander (Post 304016)
But in general, if the road has sign and name it is most likely public...and the road is listed in street maps.

Some years ago there was a drive in Finland to name roads where there is some kind of settlement (houses for around the year living or summer cottages) in order to facilitate easy navigation for example for the fire brigade and ambulance in case of an emergency. The fact that a road has a name and a sign does definitely not class it as a "public road" that can be used by 3rd parties.

I agree that the roads shown on a 1:800.000 scale road map are public. The GPS maps have a much greater detail and show also most small roads, regardless if they are public or private.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laplander (Post 304016)
If the land owner dont want other to use the road (mainly found in south), there would be signs or the roads would be closed by chains or beam and locked down...where private land owners dont want any unapproved trafik.

The absence of a chain / beam / lock does not give a 3rd party the right to use a private road.

To sum up, the "Everyman's Right" does not give a third party the right to use private roads and the road builder / owner may at any time ask a 3rd party to leave.

longwaybackhome 16 Sep 2010 08:37

Norwegian company salmon farming in Chile
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by laplander (Post 304051)
about the mentality, that seems to be vide spread:

Ulkolinja: Norjalaista lohta Chilestä | Ohjelmat | yle.fi

I fail to see how the salmon farming of a Norwegian company in Chile is connected to sheep on the road in Norway.

longwaybackhome 9 Dec 2010 15:36

Warning for "honey traps" in Sweden
 
Good day,

Due to recent development in the case of an Australian national travelling to Sweden last August I feel that it is appropriate to warn the travellers in this forum about Swedish "honey traps". Be careful, the consequences can be very serious!


:innocent:

.

laplander 9 Dec 2010 17:45

*Swedish "honey traps"

please include the link into the news, Mr Borgmastars

stuxtttr 11 Dec 2010 08:16

its not the volvo we should be scarred of
 
or the flatpack furniture, although a honey trap does sound fun !

this is swedens worst export: Traffic Cops - Dicing with Death on the M6 (Swedish Twins) HD Qu - Video

:scooter:


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