Travel through russia
 

Have a group of friends getting ready to cross into Russia. Two men and a lady. She says the locals are saying Russia is too dangerous - and now is not sure if they should continue. their plans are to head toward Siberia - any news out there?

Germany to Chita then Ulaanbaatar last year 2010. NO PROBLEMS
Ulaanbaatar to Vladivostok this year 2011. NO PROBLEMS
Russia Dangerous, Roads/Drivers YES People No
People farther East in Russia are a little more helpful and friendly than Westerns.

It is a very regular, probably lighthearted, comment I hear from Russians, that the next town is dangerous and they don't advise going there!

Having ridden to more corners of RUS than many, alone and in company, and lived here off and on for 7 years I can honestly say I have never ever felt in the slightest bit threatened, intimidated or uneasy.

I feel more uneasy in many parts of London, and I have lived there for 40 years!

Take the usual personal awareness and safety precautions as you would anywhere you don't know and you will find a surprisingly enjoyable country and peoples.

Moscow traffic, when moving, is the exception!

Anyone who says that Russia is "too dangerous" simply has no idea what they are talking about. This also applies to the many Russians with this view.

I've recently returned from a solo trip from Irkustk to Yakutsk. Encountered nothing but extremely helpful, friendly people. Prior to my trip, my colleagues in Moscow assured me that everyone who lived in the region was a criminal of some sort. But the funny thing is that even the few mafia types were very friendly, offering to buy me dinner, etc. I think that the people who live out there are just impressed as hell to find foreigners out there. Just act like a normal human being and you'll get along with everyone fine.

Now, of course there are a couple of caveats:
1) there are always exceptions, but if you can read people at all it should be easy to pick them out and avoid them.
2) I would recommend finding a secure place to store the bike every night. I was pretty much able to do this every night except in Yakustk, where someone attempted to steal my bike.
3) this is pretty much common sense, but you should generally avoid dealing with the drunks that you encounter, they can be bad news.
4) I think that the only really dangerous thing about Russia is that the level of driving skills is not that great (although not really horrible either), and that if you get in an accident, the level of medical care in remote regions can be fairly low.

Agree with everything that's posted here. I've spent months and months travelling through most parts of Russia, and with the exception of a couple of spots in the Caucasus, it's all safer (from a robbery / violence / terrorism perspective) than western Europe, and certainly America. Being out in very remote and wild places has implicit risks, but nothing specific to Russia.

Russians are overall the nicest, most helpful, reliable and honest people I've met in years of travelling all over. One part of their persona is a rather hypochondriacal concern over safety when out of one's familar surroundings. Russians very seldom travel inside Russia for pleasure and I imagine 99% of the people who are telling you the east is dangerous have never been east of the Volga.

It would be ridiculous to cancel a trip based on this hearsay.

Daniel

I rode a very very small part of north-western Russia two years ago (Estonia to St. Petersburg to Finland), so my experience is not worthing so much, but I found only good and helpful people, also among cops.

The day past tomorrow I'll leave with direction Kyrgyzstan and I'll have to cross Russia either going and returning: I look forward to enter that fantastic Country!

put me down as another one who has done a lot of solo travel in Russia and I find the statement pretty ridiculous too.

Yet almost every Russian I meet asks me every time .... "isn't it dangerous?"

As mentioned above, most of the time, the locals just have no clue.

I second all the comments re Russia not being dangerous. The biggest hazard you're likely to encounter is predatory police, traffic and other! Make sure your paperwork is in order and don't break the speed limit.

Also true in my experience about people being a little nicer in the east

overlandcruiser.net

Frankly I've never understood everyone's problem with Russian police. About 99% of the ones that I encounter are professional, if not friendly. If your paperwork is not in order or you break the speed limit, I'm not sure if I would consider it "predatory" for the police to seek to impose some kind of fine, etc.
Maybe its the fact that I can actually communicate with them, so know what they are actually asking, etc., rather than guessing that they are asking for major bribes...dunno.

Especially in Siberia, the police are quite friendly, and once I show them my passport, I almost never need to show any bike docs. In/around Moscow the police are rather strict but professional. The only place where I've encountered predatory cops is in Bashkiria (around Ufa).

I echo. :thumbup1:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilesmark (Post 340046) I second all the comments re Russia not being dangerous. The biggest hazard you're likely to encounter is predatory police, traffic and other! Make sure your paperwork is in order and don't break the speed limit.

i KNEW that incendiary comment would ruffle feathers (hello again Knight of the Holy Graal and motoreiter!) so here's my justification.

I was caught breaking the law in Russia and Kaz 6 times (speeding or overtaking) and twice they just wanted to give me words of advice, but 4 times they wanted to get a bribe out of me and couldn't because I couldn't speak Russian. At least, if someone makes a gesture as if to take my licence away and then writes '500 pyb' on a piece of scrap paper I assume that's what's going on.

Also - on my first visit to Russia, I inadvertently fell foul of visa registration rules. I called the British Embassy in Moscow and they explained about the registration system. It was they who advised me to start keeping receipts from roadhouses / hotels / filling stations as an 'audit trail' to show where I'd been and on which days to prove I hadn't been in any 1 place long enough to need to re-register my visa.

A month later, I re-entered Russia through the Orsk crossing. This time I kept receipts right from the start AND registered my visa properly with a stamp on my immigation card. About 10 days before I left Russia, I was near Red Square with a German student when we both got stopped by the tourist police. I was able to prove with my wad of receipts that I hadn't been in Moscow for long enough to need to register my visa there (or indeed any other part of Russia); the German didn't have any proof and had to pay a 500 rouble bribe. He had already let on that he was getting a train out of Moscow that night, so the police said "well - you might well have proof that you've registered your visa, but we'll have to go back to your apartment to look for your passport and we wouldn't want that to make you miss your train."

That being said, all the police I encountered were professional in the sense of being civil. Even the ones who extracted the 500 roubles from the poor German were SOOOOO nice to him, shaking his hand afterwards as if they'd done him a favour.

No problems
 

I've just ridden from the nearest Ukraine/Russia border crossing to Kursk, across to Ulan Ude without any trouble. The only difficulties have been navigating through cities, with no road signs in many of them I find that a nightmare. But the people are amazingly friendly, very helpful and delighted to see a foreign motorcyclist.

Now all I need to do is find the road from Ulan Ude down to the Mongolian border. The Cyrillic alphabet is a bitch, and I speak five words of Russian! That said I've made it nearly 4,000 miles across the country easy, if rather tiring.:mchappy:

Yeah, I guess we've had this conversation before...

As for the times you were speeding or overtaking, dunno, it's not like you have a "get out of jail" free card or something, surely you don't expect a smile and pat o the back every time you infringe some traffic law? Russians lose their license for six months for illegal passing, so I would say that 500 rubles is a real bargain.

As for the Red Square thing, those weren't traffic police, I don't have much contact with the "tourist police" (or whatever they are) so can't really comment other than to say that they are a different organization.

Also, I believe that Russian law has recently changed so that police no longer have the right to fine foreigners for registration issues (the immigration authorities have to deal with it), the change was supposedly made to eliminate this very problem. So in future don't let any cops give you a hard time for improper registration, etc. Maybe Tony P or somebody could confirm this?

As you say - Милйция (civil police), not ДПС (roads police).

They used to continually patrol Red Square checking tourists documents. I have not been there since my first visits years ago.

I believe you are right about changes in responsibility and fines. I have heard that elswhere.

Processes and procedures are very gradualy being modernised.

One useful recent change is the need to Register has been extended from 3 to 7 working days (i.e don't count weekends and public holidays).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony P (Post 340136) The taking the Licence away gesture is indicating the Proper Legal Way of doing it. .

Yes, I was aware of the confiscation of licence procedure, and that they were trying to get me to pay 500 roubles to bypass this.

Tony - from the discussions you and I have had previously both in person and online about MOTs / SORN for vehicles outside the UK etc etc, I have gained an impression of someone who doesn't have much time for bureaucratic regulations, or for the heavy-handed enforcement of them.

My perception of much of the traffic enforcement in Russia was that it was more about catching people out for the smallest thing and using it as an excuse to extract money, as opposed to genuine concern for road safety. Rather like speed cameras in the UK, which I dare say you have a negative view of as well (just like me!) Ditto for the scene I witnessed near Red Square, albeit one that would not happen today given the change in rules.

I believe I made myself clear in my first entry on this thread that you don't have to worry if you obey the rules. Just that you need to obey them to the letter.

Pretty good offer. You were lucky it was only 500 initially. By far your cheapest option, having self-admittedly broken the rules. A no-brainer!

Yes. I do resent being controlled unreasonably and try to explore as far as possible the rules, their boundries and enforcement. Having made myself as aware of them as possible it is purely my personal choice if I decide to then step outside them. If I do and it backfires on me I would not 'blanket criticise' the Country or even its enforcers, no matter how dubious their motives may appear.
I test inconsistancies and anomolies but the ultimate right of enforcement its theirs and I chose to be in their Country.
I find Russia is far less controlled and monitored than UK. I enjoy the far greater freedom here. You are responsible for yourself.

AGREED. But that's the way it is.
Right now the ДПС are outside our flat, sitting in their car, smoking and chating on phones and totally ignoring cars and motos roaring past, in the darkness of a Moscow summer night, at up to 100mph, overtaking, undertaking and weaving across all 4 lanes in their direction (being on pavements is not unknown at times). But if a wheel goes over the central solid white line, or a prohibited turn is made, the valiant ДПС courageously spring into action.
But that is the system I chose to live under. Part of the package.

In RUS, these guys are not corrupt liars. Unlike many instances of law enforcement elsewhere (sadly including the UK at times), they don't fabricate stories to 'get you' - but maybe they intentionally patrol and exploit contentious, ambiguous situations. But they are following their instructions and the rules. They only try it on with people who have already broken the rules by their own actions or documentation.

Don't break the rules and there will be absolutely no problem. It is such a pity that the people get the wrong impression based on heresay of wrong understanding.

And don't think I am having a pop at you Mark - I am not.
I'll be back in August so we can continue the converstaion over a pint or two, without boring everyone here!

You're on! PM me when you're back.

But - just for the record - - I never blanket criticised the whole country.

No one suggested you did.

But someone did - to the Original Poster who started this thread.
My posts are with that in mind.

In April I start to planning my tour around European Russia and slice of Kazakhstan.
Thanks to Colebatch and Motobelka's posting here I got the real picture of Russia.
Riding alone in twenty days of June and looking for Russian soul I traveled trough: Odessa and Sevastopol (UKR) - passing to Russia on ferry (port Kavkaz near Kerch), trough: Krasnodar, Rostov On Don, Volgograd, Astrahan. Then enter a small part of Kazakhstan: Atyrau and Oral. Again Russia: Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod, Moscow, St.Petersburg, and then Baltics and Poland.

Just roads and couple of hours in the center of those cities.
Enough to have a picture.
Enough to dream every night after return...

Everyone I met returned me a smile, and very often feed me and drink.
Thumbs up to me from the cars and buses in the towns..

Stopped by DPS only in first kilometers when entered Russia, just for driving license control.

Hotels in center of the cities are expensive (50EUR and more), but I have no time to search suburbia.

Only bad thing was that women didn't screamed when I pass through the street, but I have used to that.... :cool4:

When I parked machine on the Red Square, police screamed from the car through loudspeaker: "You can't parked here!!"
"But I need one photo..."
"O, that's OK...proceed"

Border control on Port Kavkaz are young and friendly professionals.
You just need visa and smile.
Other Russian border passing went quick and with greetings.
(Hej, biker, don't wait in the line for customs on the sun...come in the cold bus and sit here...)

Tarmac on these roads in Russia are 40% in good quality. Others needs drivers attention and adjusting speed because of deep lines on tarmac made by heavy trucks..
But my GS enjoyed every kilometer...
Only a few tens of kilometers are very bad with holes (I made over 7000 km in Russia) and these are in repairing progress...

Russian drivers are much better than eastern European.
I saw a very few maniacs. Everybody stopped on pedestrian crossing in the towns. Truck drivers turn their right tires off the road to let me trough.
Drivers light signals for police traps are obligation :)

At last before exit I made obvious mistake before DPS. Payed 1/3 of fee (20$). With smile on both side.

Maybe it just helps if you are grateful on sun and roads...and smile
Maybe not just when riding...

Danger?
 

Yes, Russia is dangerous. The main fear is that you will be fed too much excellent food and get fat, then there's the possibility that someone will take you home and get you drunk. Also you may be crushed in a bear hug by yet another friendly Russian.
Traffic cops are twats though.

Got pulled in Germany a while back, had my 'new keepers supplement as my V5 wasn't back from DVLA. apparently not valid in germany. police cut off my number plates and wouldn't allow the vehicle out of the service station they had pulled me into. Spent the night in the vehicle before walking 18km to the nearest town to register the vehicle on german plates and obtain temporary german registration and insurance.

wish they had taken a bribe!!!!!

I have been touring southern Russia end of June on the road to Central Asia and also when going back to Italy, so twice in less than one month: Ukrainian border to Elista to Astrakhan, then Astrakhan to Volgograd to Ukrainian border.
I've found nobody but good people that have always been wanting to help me as much as they could in any situation I found myself.
For example, I got lost in three different cities (I had no GPS and there was lack of road signs) and in all these moments I found somebody that offered me to drive me out of town putting me in the right direction.

If it comes to DPS, I was pulled over just outside Elista by the traffic police only to talk a bit and have a pic together, and many other policemen showed appreciation to my motorcycle when passing in front of them (many of them, especially in the Volgograd region, thumbed up at my bike with big smiles as I rode in front of them).
I was fined on the road between Volgograd and the Ukrainian border by DPS because I was riding at 111 km/h with limit of 60: I could not claim, they were right, so I paid the 2000 rubles fine without discussing because the "correct" amount (I think you understand what I mean...) would have been muuuuuuuch more and I was wrong. I was back on the road in less than 10 minutes.

So, at the end, I must confirm the idea that I had during my first very small Russian trip of 2009 (Estonia to St. Petersburg then to Finland): Russians are great people, and their Police is anything but predatory.
I look forward to enter again that fantastic Country.